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Topic: Low acid coffee (21 msgs / 389 lines)
1) From: Ted Cary
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Hi Tom & Maria;   You probably don't remember 
me,  but we used to email back and forth way back when we were trying to 
figure out the popper. Anyhow I was really into it then but because of a tricky 
stomach had to give it up.  Recently my doctor got me onto a new medicine 
which has helped out a lot.  So I'm back on the coffee.  I know I 
probably should leave it alone, but at my age [75] there isn't much I enjoy as 
much as a good cup.  I've been reading Ken Davids review on low acid 
coffees, and wonder if you could recommend some out of your stock that fall in 
this category.  Also in your reviews you mention roasting to city or full 
city etc. and just where does city and full city fall in reference to the second 
crack?  Received my hand cranking Z and love it.  I really believe 
it's the best way to go with a grinder.  Thanks  Ted 
Cary

2) From: Angelo
Ted,
Could you give us the name of the medicine which helped you? I like to ask
my doctor about it...
Thanks,
Angelo
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3) From: coffenut
Folks,
As one who has "acid-reflux disease" or chronic severe heartburn, I can
attest to the effects of acidic food and beverages.  I have a prescription
for a 300mg dose of Zantac that is taken each day at bedtime.  Some people
use Prilosec or Prevacid to treat acid-reflux as well.  The prescription
strength Zantac has been very effective for me in controlling overactive
stomach acid and allowing me to drink a variety of coffee's.  The acidity of
coffee is just one element that poses problems for people with acid-reflux.
The caffeine also relaxes the muscle between the esophagus and stomach,
making it easier for stomach acid to move up into the esophagus and produce
"heart-burn". Hope this helps,
Coffenut  :^)
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4) From: Ted Cary
The doctor put me on Prevacid . I've been eating tums since I was in high
school and haven't had a one since taking it.
,
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ask
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5) From: Ted Cary

6) From: Tom & Maria
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Hi Ted! Yes ...I remember that you are a master woodworker and wanted to
get the Zassenhaus burr set to build your own box mill ...whihc would be
incredible. I wish someone could make a larger capacity Zassenahaus mill
that holds enough for a 10 cups pot. But they wont sell the burrs, and
through our German "negotiator" I understand that they are the MOST
stubborn people when it comes to suggestions (I am sure I rank near the top
too ...although as you all will note the Coffee Cupping Review archive is
all reorganized, as suggested on this list last week!)
OK ... the lowest acid coffees are Sulawesi and Sumatra. Java is very low
acid too, with a cleaner cup character. Brazil like the Monte Carmelo are
fairly low. Avoid Kenya and any coffee I call "bright" or high-toned or
citrusy.
My understanding about acid in coffee is this: coffee is not particularily
high in acidity! Other foods and beverages can have much higher acidity but
they also have sugars for stomach acids to break down and consume. But the
oils in coffee are enough to get your stomach acids functioning and theres
nothing for them to consume ...no sugars, unless you add that to coffee.
But cream and sugar is not the answer! The best thing is to not take coffee
alone, and never on an empty stomach. If anyone has comments on my
statement, please let me know ...because I want to be accurate about this
but I am not medically inclined...
Another problem people face with coffee is the types of acids: any coffee
with Robusta in it will have a very negative effect on your stomach
...Robusta has a much higher PH ; its the kind of acids it has that have a
neagative effect. Robusta really gets to me, and I am pretty much immune
from the affects of all arabica coffee (except I remember this awful
Cameroon Boyo arabica sample that literally made me double over in pain!)
Tom
                  "Great coffee comes from tiny roasters"
           Sweet Maria's Home Coffee Roasting  -  Tom & Maria
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7) From: Spencer W. Thomas
Another problem is that caffeine stimulates stomach acid production.
=Spencer
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8) From: Ted Cary
Hi Tom;  Thanks for the reply.  I'll have to check out those varieties.  The
Zass Mill works out great for me as I'm the only one in the house that
drinks coffee, so it's no effort to grind up some for a cup.  Thanks again.
Ted
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9) From: Jerry Procopio
I sell about 25 pounds of coffee a month to a few friends.  Today I 
received a request from one of these "customers".  He has usually 
purchased a pound of regular and a pound of decaf from me each time he 
orders.  His doctor has now given him instructions for "decaf only" and 
low acid if possible.  Short of doing a litmus test, how do I know which 
coffees are low acid and specifically, what IS low acid (relative to 
coffee).
JavaJerry
RK Drum roasting in Chesapeake, VA

10) From: Tim Smith
If Tom describes it as "bright" then odds are it's fairly acidic.  However I
think it has to do with the roast level, too.  A darker roast will tend to
subdue the acidity and give you a little mellower flavor.  In my limited
experience that works better for some beans than for others.  Is he a
City/City+ guy or does he go more toward the Vienna end of the range?

11) From: Bill Morgan
http://www.sweetmarias.com/coffee.others.decafs.html#sumatrawphttp://www.sweetmarias.com/coffee.others.decafs.html#KomodoSWP
On 2/9/07, Jerry Procopio  wrote:
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12) From: Sam Tregar
On Fri, 9 Feb 2007, Tim Smith wrote:
<Snip>
I wonder if what we call acidity in terms of flavor is actually
correlated to low pH, which is probably what the doctor meant by
"low acid."
-sam

13) From: Thbull
Jerry,
 From some of the information I've found on the SM site, and the  
notes that are on the coffee bags, I've stayed mainly in the  
Indonesian/Asia coffees. Apparently the Sumatras, and others are  
noted as being 'low-acid', even if they have a high brightness. Tom  
appears to differentiate between the low-acid and brightness. There  
are other coffees that have lover brightness, but are not mentioned  
as being low-acid.
I too would being interested in the ph information since I'm not a  
chemist, nor do I play one on TV !
Peace,
Thbull 'staying off the acid'
On Feb 9, 2007, at 4:02 PM, Jerry Procopio wrote:
I sell about 25 pounds of coffee a month to a few friends.  Today I  
received a request from one of these "customers".  He has usually  
purchased a pound of regular and a pound of decaf from me each time  
he orders.  His doctor has now given him instructions for "decaf  
only" and low acid if possible.  Short of doing a litmus test, how do  
I know which coffees are low acid and specifically, what IS low acid  
(relative to coffee).
JavaJerry
RK Drum roasting in Chesapeake, VA

14) From: Jerry Procopio
On Sweet Maria's Flavor Analysis page http://www.sweetmarias.com/coffee.reference.html#flavoranalysis Tom 
writes: "12. Brightness/Acidity: Acidity is the taste of sharp high 
notes in the coffee caused by a set of Chlorogenic Acids, Citiric Acid, 
Quinic Acid, Acetic Acid, and others, sensed mostly in the front of the 
mouth and tongue. (It is a good quality; NOT related to bitterness in 
coffee, and NOT directly responsible for upset stomach!). Acidity is 
prized by many cupper's, and relates directly to the quality of the cup 
since acidity is the product of high altitude plantings. Possible score 
is 1-10."
On the Caffeine page http://www.sweetmarias.com/health.eco.html he 
also states, "If you think the acidity of coffee is bothering you, drink 
a darker roast."
I've always considered the brightness/acidity as something we taste in 
the coffee, not something that is measured in terms of pH.  The 1-10 
score is a cupper's score based on something the cupper tastes, and 
apparently not something that is chemically measured.  I don't know if 
this is really true and after a day of reading, I'm becoming more 
confused about this acid thing. This confusion now leads to two questions.
    1.)  Is there really a such thing as Low Acid coffee?
    2.)  Does roasting darker actually lower the measurable acidity of 
coffee?
Jerry
Thbull wrote:
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15) From: Andy Thomas
I don't know the answer to Jerry's oroginal question about low acid coffee,=
 but in winemaking there are two kinds of acidity: pH and titratable acidit=
y. (BTW: acidity is represented by a LOW pH number, and basicity (is that a=
 word?) by a high number. So pH of 3.5 is more acid than pH of 5.5.) TA and=
 pH usually correspond somewhat -- that is, a wine with low pH will usually=
, but not always,  have high titratable acidity and vice versa. TA does cor=
respond to an acidic flavor in wine, whereas low pH may not.  I have no ide=
a whether any of this applies to coffee or not.
----- Original Message=
 ----
From: Sam Tregar 
To: homeroast=
.com
Sent: Friday, February 9, 2007 2:30:00 PM
Subject: Re: +Low Acid C=
offee
On Fri, 9 Feb 2007, Tim Smith wrote:
> If Tom describes =
it as "bright" then odds are it's fairly acidic.  However I
> think it ha=
s to do with the roast level, too.  A darker roast will tend to
> subdue =
the acidity and give you a little mellower flavor.  In my limited
> exper=
ience that works better for some beans than for others.  Is he a
> City/C=
ity+ guy or does he go more toward the Vienna end of the range?
I wond=
er if what we call acidity in terms of flavor is actually
correlated to l=
ow pH, which is probably what the doctor meant by
"low acid."
-sam=
homeroast mailing l=
isthttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroastTo change y=
our personal list settings (digest options, vacations, unsvbscribes) go to =http://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings==Looking for earth-friendly autos? 
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16) From: dave
Simple solution: Buy some pH test strips or a pH meter.
On Feb 9, 2007, at 4:24 PM, Thbull wrote:
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17) From: Bill Morgan
From some quick Googling on "coffee pH":http://www.gardfoods.com/coffee/coffee.hydro.htmhttp://www.coffeereview.com/article.cfm?ID=9
The pH of brewed coffee falls within a range of 4.5-6.0.  FWIW, in the
latter link Ken Davids says, "A typical bright, acidy breakfast coffee might
register a pH of 4.7 or so. I find that my palate tends to identify acidity
as a major component of flavor at a pH of 5.0 or below."  Here's his table
of coffees sampled for that article:
Coffee                                  pH   Roast       Rating
Guatemala Antigua, Coffee Tamer added   4.9  Medium      83
Trader Joe's Low-Acid Coffee            4.9  Medium      83
Martinez Brazilian Capim Branco         5.1  Medium      86
A'Roma IndianMysore LaSemeuse Classique 5.2  Medium-Dark 85
A'Roma Blue de Brasil                   5.4  Dark        80
Silver Canyon Sumatra                   5.6  Very Dark   83
Silver Canyon Aged Sumatra              5.6  Very Dark   85
Tamer treated Low Acid Coffee, Regular  5.7  Very Dark   70
White Horse India Monsooned Malabar     5.8  Very Dark   81
Yes, degree of roast strongly affects pH and perceived acidity.  As I
recall, the decaffeination process also reduces acidity and the origin
certainly has an influence.  Hence, it looks like the best bet for low-acid
coffee is a darker roasted Indonesian decaf.  I drink lots of Full City+ to
Vienna roasted Sumatra or Komodo blend decafs.
I'd really like to see pH readings on such coffees.  Any pH meter wielding
decaf drinkers out there?  If not, I will cheerfully send samples to someone
with a meter.
Sipping a KMB-brewed blend 30% Idido Misty Valley / 70% Komodo decaf,
Bill
On 2/9/07, Jerry Procopio  wrote:
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18) From: Robert Joslin
I'm not sure that brightness or acidity in a coffee description necessarily
correlates with a pH.  I don't think that a coffee described as very bright
or acidic would have a lower pH that a coffee described as bright or mildly
acidicAll brewed coffee is acidic to some degree.  What ever factors affect
that acidity (degree of roast, degree of extraction or strength, they are
probably not known to the marketers  Does anyone market a coffee that is
advertised as lower acid (yes, I believe Sanka did at one time
On 2/9/07, Tim Smith  wrote:
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19) From: Floyd Lozano
right now Folgers is marketing a low acid coffee.  Their marketing line is
welcome back to the second cup or something like that.  I am guessing it's
ok to post the link here, as it is probably not considered a competitor!http://www.folgers.com/coffees/ground/g_simplysmooth_velvet.shtmlOn 2/10/07, Robert Joslin  wrote:
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20) From: Robert Joslin
Sorry about that, I inadvertently hit the send before I finished my
thought.  While pre roasted prepackaged coffees may well advertise their
product as lower acid, does anyone know what a particular green will do in
the cup, considering the vagaries of the roasting and brewing?   Josh
On 2/10/07, Floyd Lozano  wrote:
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21) From: Jerry Procopio
Thanks for all of you that responded.  Here's an update on what has 
happened.  As you may recall, I have a customer that is a recovering 
cancer patient who wants a low acid decaf.  After asking the questions 
that started this thread I talked to the customer and he said "don't 
worry about the "low acid", I'm out of coffee.  Just me 2 pounds of 
whatever decaf you have". I made a three bean blend of equal parts of 
decaf Sulawesi, Decaf Yirgacheffe, and Decaf Guatemalan, pre-roast 
blended and RK Drum roasted to FC+ (just in case darker roasts really do 
lower acidity).  I'm not sure that my customer's doctor is happy, but 
the customer is and now wants a standing order.  It turns out that he 
really likes the darker roast anyway.
Thanks again,
JavaJerry
Jerry Procopio wrote:
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