HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Espresso machine choices (33 msgs / 1073 lines)
1) From: AlChemist John
I have be trying to determine which espresso maker I want to replace the 
two I lost in the fire.  Well, I am narrowing it down and have a short list 
to around 3.  I was looking over them last night when Penny started reading 
over my shoulder.  For more input, I asked her opinion about what she 
thought and how much to spend etc.  I know, you think you know how this is 
going to end.  Well, response was I should get the most expensive one as it 
was the nicest and looked like it was worth it.  I am still undecided, but 
who am I to argue.  I know that is the advise here but she doesn't read the 
list.  She also encourages me to get 5lb increments of coffee varietal if I 
like them instead of "just" 2 lb.  I love this woman! (and she doesn't even 
drink or like coffee)
--
John Nanci 
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.dreamsandbones.net/blog/http://www.chocolatealchemy.com/

2) From: Marty Wooten
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
John,
 
Sounds like you have a wonderful, encouraging and supportive wife as
well. They are a blessing to our lives. I hope you find the perfect
espresso machine fit for you. Glad to see you back on the list.
 
Marty

3) From: alfred
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Al:
How about letting us in on your final three choices. I'm sure many of =
the members would be interested in the selection process of an =
experienced coffee lover.

4) From: Ben Treichel
Marty Wooten wrote:
John,
if that the case, how about beauty and Alchemy both in one package.http://www.coffeegeek.com/proreviews/detailed/microcasaleva<Snip>
-- 
Ben Treichel
Program Manager
S.E Michigan
SwRI
248-232-7365 (o)
248-935-6845 (m)

5) From: AlChemist John
Within my budget, the three are the Gaggia Classic, Gaggia Baby and 
DeLonghi 140 Bar.  The Gaggia are there based on advise from Les, Tom, Ben 
and my own searches.    All of the Gaggia seem to be made quite well and 
these two fit my budget, have 58mm commercial PF, substantial groups and 
3-way valve.  I have seen some disturbing reviews of the Classic "rusting 
out" in 3-4 years and have contacted WLL about what they know.  I think the 
Baby may not have this problem as it is abs instead of SS, although the SS 
is sweet, but I should hear back tomorrow.  The DeLonghi is a relatively 
low end machine, but I was nicely impressed by my tradition one that I have 
it here.  Gut feeling says the Baby, but it may be that only certain waters 
rust the Classic.  If that is the case, the Classic it is.
Sometime around 08:03 4/8/2004, alfred typed:
<Snip>
--
John Nanci 
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.dreamsandbones.net/blog/http://www.chocolatealchemy.com/

6) From: Arien Malec
AlChemist John wrote:
<Snip>
Gaggia is a good choice. I don't know about the DeLonghi machine, but 
the brand is suspect.
<Snip>
The corrosion issue isn't the outside, but the inside. The top of the 
boiler is aluminum, which makes the machine heat faster and have a 
faster recovery time, but can also lead to boiler corrosion over time
Arien

7) From: AlChemist John
Sometime around 21:54 4/8/2004, Arien Malec typed:
<Snip>
That is what I keep hearing.  Not to put a blind eye to it, but my 2nd 
tradition experience was nice with one.  I have heard the company, not the 
product, is a pain to deal with.
<Snip>
This was separate from the boiler issue.  They talked about rust around the 
water tank dropping in the water.
<Snip>
--
John Nanci 
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.dreamsandbones.net/blog/http://www.chocolatealchemy.com/

8) From: AlChemist John
Beautiful, but out of my price range.
Sometime around 08:09 4/8/2004, Ben Treichel typed:
<Snip>
--
John Nanci 
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.dreamsandbones.net/blog/http://www.chocolatealchemy.com/

9) From: Ben Treichel
AlChemist John wrote:
<Snip>
i understand.
<Snip>
-- 
Ben Treichel
Program Manager
S.E Michigan
SwRI
248-232-7365 (o)
248-935-6845 (m)

10) From: Ron Kyle
John In Australia the word for Penny is KEEPER :O)
RK

11) From: AlChemist John
Ok, Gaggia (Ga-shu, BTW :-) Classic it is.  Word is that Gaggia has 
redesigned the frame and it is SS now. No more rusting.  That cinched 
it.  Net outlay for a $600 (or $450 since it is always there) machine, less 
than $100 (due to sales, buyers remorse and insurance).  I like that!
Sometime around 05:36 4/9/2004, AlChemist John typed:
<Snip>
--
John Nanci 
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.dreamsandbones.net/blog/http://www.chocolatealchemy.com/

12) From: miKe mcKoffee

13) From: AlChemist John
Actually, it is the gold chrome (what was available)
Sometime around 07:52 4/10/2004, miKe mcKoffee typed:
<Snip>
--
John Nanci 
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.dreamsandbones.net/blog/http://www.chocolatealchemy.com/

14) From: Dean De Crisce
Hey all,
I'm trying to get some help on overwhelming espresso machine choices.
I'm attempting to lose 40 lbs and in a convoluted way am going to
create an incentive by 'paying myself' 200$ per every five pounds that
I lose. If I lose it all...I'll have enough to get a dream machine (at
least at my level). I have a Rocky, Behmor, AP, FP, pourover, ibrik,
cory vacpot, and presently use a saeco aroma.
I know this kind of discussion has been bantered about plenty, but I
have it down to 5 choices, based on reviews, and people's
recommendations here. They are all fine machines...but there are fine
differences that leave me clueless. How have you gone about making
such choices if you considered or have one of these?
1. Quick Mill Andreja Premium about 1700
2. Fiorenzato Bricoletta Lever TANK about 1300 ( I believe MiKe has this one)
3. Fiorenzato Bricoletta VOLANTE Lever Tank about 1350
4. Expobar Brewtus II Double Boiler Machine about 1700 ( I believe
Barry has this one)
7. Expobar Office Lever Espresso Machine about 1000
Thanks for your help.
-- 
Dean De Crisce
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15) From: Mike Chester
Dean,
I have the QM Vetrano which is basically the same machine as the Andrea 
Premium except it is direct connect and has a rotary pump.  In general, I 
have been happy with this machine, but the price has increased significantly 
since I purchased it.  If I were in the market for a new machine now, I 
would give a lot of thought to the Alex Duetto by Izzo.  This is the new 
machine that miKe almost bought.  At $2400, it is a bit more than the Quick 
Mills, but it has more features than any other machine at that price point. 
It is a dual boiler machine with PID control of the brew boiler.  It has a 
built in tank, but can be converted to direct connect by flipping the handle 
on a valve.  It has an E-61 group which has proven to be a reliable work 
horse and has a standard 58mm portafilter which is very easy to get 
accessories for.  It has a nice polished stainless steel case rather than 
plastic and looks very good. (Much the same as the QMs and the Volante)  It 
has a rotary pump which is quieter and smoother than a vibe.  Since this is 
a brand new model, there is not much information about reliability, but I 
know that it has been in development for a couple of years now and Chris' is 
pretty picky about what they sell.
BTW - miKe has the direct connect rotary Bric not the vibe/tank model.
Mike Chester

16) From: Robert Yoder
A real Lose-Win situation!
 
Best of luck, Dean!  I am a strong believer in incentives and this is a great one!
 
robert
 
(sent from my dinner table)
 
<Snip>
 elieve MiKe has this one)> 3. Fiorenzato Bricoletta VOLANTE Lever Tank about 1350> 4. Expobar Brewtus II Double Boiler Machine about 1700 ( I believe> Barry has this one)> 7. Expobar Office Lever Espresso Machine about 1000> > Thanks for your help.> > -- > Dean De Crisce>> Homeroast mailing list> Homeroast>http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20Get more out of the Web. Learn 10 hidden secrets of Windows Live.http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocidT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008Homeroast mailing list">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.com>Homeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20Get more out of the Web. Learn 10 hidden secrets of Windows Live.http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocidT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008Homeroast mailing list
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17) From: John and Emma
Dean first of all congrats on starting and secondly on rewarding yourself.
Delayed gratification is hard but does provide the incentive.
I was the one that started the last list of questions regarding this. I had
decided on the Gaggia Achille's Lever recommended by Les. Then when I
discussed it with my wife she said if I was to spend over $1000 she didn't
want anything manual. In Canada the Achille is $1400. After that and for the
same reasons below I decided on the Izzo Alex Duetto recommended by miKe. My
wife was ok about me spending about $1000 more knowing that I won't buy it
till we can afford it. I am presently saving for one and the Max Hybrid
grinder Les recommended. Though the Duetto will take a little longer to get
I think it'll be worth it.
John H.

18) From: Les
Dean,
I think you have done a good job of narrowing down your list, but have
you considered the LaSpaziale.  It is about 1800.00.  It is one of the
finest home machines out there in my not so humble opinion, a double
boiler to boot!
Les
On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 1:15 PM, Robert Yoder  wrote:
<Snip>
 b
<Snip>
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19) From: Les
John,
For me it is a lever or a double boiler next time around.
Les
On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 2:04 PM, John and Emma  wrote:
<Snip>
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20) From: John and Emma
Hi Les,
I didn't mean that you were against the Duetto or any other double boiler. I
hope I didn't offend you? Just that your comments on the Achille over the
last little while made me think of a machine I knew nothing about. I just
wanted to give you credit for the suggestion. If it wasn't for your
recommendation and comments I wouldn't have looked at the Achille or any
other Lever machine in the first place. Through your recommendation and
miKe's link to the Home-Barista review of the Achille I was really leaning
toward getting that machine. Only because my wife didn't want a manual
machine had I decided to save the extra and get the double boiler. miKe made
me aware of the features and pluses of the Alex which is why I gave him
credit for it. Before I asked I had no idea what was a good name and what
wasn't. I only new about those you see all the time. Which aren't
necessarily bad machines just might not be the best for the buck, the best
for the features you're looking for or even affordable like the La Marzocco
for me.
I have found this list to be an invaluable tool and enjoy reading every
morning with my first cup of the day.
Dean enjoy your research.
John H.

21) From: Barry Luterman
Dean here is one for 1499 it just has a dirty boxhttp://cgi.ebay.com/Expobar-Brewtus-II-Espresso-Machine-DOUBLE-BOILER_W0QQitemZ150252486783QQcmdZViewItem?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 7:53 AM, Dean De Crisce  wrote:
<Snip>
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22) From: Les
No offence taken!  Once you get into that $800-$2000 range, there are
a lot of good choices out there.  A good HX machine if you learn how
to use it pulls exceptional shots.  I do like the Achille.
Unfortunately the Olympia Cremina new is over $4,000.00.  I just
wanted to make sure the LaSpaziale gets a look at.  I don't own one,
but I have been able test drive one, and they are very nice machines
for the money.  I do like the Achille for the money.  However, I would
be much happier with it if they would improve the steaming wand, and
the base.  Those issues were addressed in the review in Home Barista.
I have not tried a Duetto, but they look like a good machine.  The
Brewtus is nice and I have pulled some shots on one of them as well.
If I could get a Brewtus with the same controls as my Office Control,
I would seriously consider it.  But that is just me.  I like my volume
dosing.
Les
On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 2:50 PM, John and Emma  wrote:
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23) From: Barry Luterman
As I remember Dean you do not live in a private home. An advantage of
the Brewtus is that it doesn't not have to be plumed in and it works
on a 15 amp circuit. For me the big advantage is no surfing at all
On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 1:50 PM, Les  wrote:
<Snip>
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24) From: Terry Stockdale
I love my La Spaziale Vivaldi II.  But, the price you indicated is 
old - they're $2195 now.  Maybe with the strengthening dollar, we'll 
see the prices of espresso machines come back down...
I was considering the Andreja Premium, the Brewtus II and had the 
Vivaldi II as a  distant dream.  I showed my wife the three I was 
considering -- guess which SHE picked!  That's how I got the Vivaldi 
II.  By the way, she doesn't drink coffee, either.  I'm VERY happy to 
steam milk for her hot chocolate!
I'm using a Rocky grinder with it because I switch back and forth 
daily between espresso and drip
Terry Stockdale
At 06:50 PM 9/9/2008, you wrote:
<Snip>
--
Terry Stockdale -- Baton Rouge, LA
My Coffee Pages:http://www.terryscomputertips.comHomeroast mailing list">http://www.terrystockdale.com/coffeeMy computer tips site and newsletters:http://www.terryscomputertips.comHomeroast mailing list
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25) From: Les
You can get the non-plumbed in Mini Vivaldi II by La Spaziale for $1949.00.
Les
On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 5:45 PM, Terry Stockdale
 wrote:
<Snip>
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26) From: Mike Chester
Les,
The LaSpaziale Vivaldi II has gone up recently.  It is now $2200.  For $200 
more, you get PID, SS case instead of plastic, both tank and direct connect 
capabilities, and a standard 58mm group with the Izzo.  The LaSp may be an 
excellent machine, but those extra features would be worth $200 more to me.
Mike Chester

27) From: Les
Mike,
I stand corrected,  The choices are competitive between $1500 and
$2500.  I still like the Spaz with the volumetric dosing.  The Isso is
appealing.  It sure is nice having a machine that I am satisfied with
and the more I use a lever machine, the more I like them.
Les
, Sep 9, 2008 at 7:39 PM, Mike Chester  wrote:
<Snip>
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28) From: Dean De Crisce
Ive spent some more time reading and see that the Brewtus is a bouble
boiler, and the Bric and Andreja are HX. They both appear to need some
flushing but the HX seems to require more of the flush for temperature
purposes. It was referred to as 'water dancing.'
Brewtus has double boiler and temp control but requires a hassle to
fill and the drip tray cover is oversized and shoddy for a machine
that costs as much as an enduro motorcycle.
The Andreja and bric volante are nicer in their details. The andreja
may have better service and more attention to details from Chris' but
a little less temperature control, and the water dancing.
The Izzo dueto has the pid, and double boiler, and attention to
cosmetics but is 1000$ more...unfortunately I dont think I can manage
that difference at this point. Just some additional thoughts. I dont
see much on the bric volante.
On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 11:59 PM, Les  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Dean De Crisce, MD
Ann Klein Forensic Center
Special Treatment Unit
8 Production Way
Avenel, NJ 07001
732-499-5653
Mobile: 310-980-8715
decrisce.md
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29) From: Barry Luterman
Two fixes for the Brewtus work beautifully. First I put chair slider
on the feet of the machine. I can slide it easily on the counter and
then with a funnel I easily fill it. The machine is heavy enough that
even with the sliders in place it does not move  when you lock in the
PF. The drip tray is an easy fix as well. Simply slice a piece of
plastic aquarium tubing and place it over the edge of the drip tray.
The drip tray cover is now stable. Total cost for the fixes less than
five dollars. Only problem I have had with  mine,in the 3 years I've
owned it,
were also easy fixes. After about 2 years the cheap p-stat went. I
replaced it with a Jaeger p-stat and it has never given me a minutes
trouble since. The other problem I had was the off on toggle switch.
Replaced it for less than 5 dollars. P-stat fix was about a half hour
work . toggle switch took 5 minutes. The Brewtus runs circles around
my previous PID'd Silvia
On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 10:05 PM, Dean De Crisce  wrote:
<Snip>
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30) From: John and Emma
Dean,
Sorry, I guess the other reason I leaned toward the Alex is price in Canada.
Andreja = $1900
Brewtus II = $2000
Alex  = $2137.25 (manufacturers warranty) or $2362.25 (Comprehensive Coffee
Tech warranty)
So the extras on the Alex I felt are well worth the extra $130+.
John H.

31) From: Dean De Crisce
wow...thats a crazy difference in price between us and canada
On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 11:27 AM, John and Emma  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Dean De Crisce, MD
Ann Klein Forensic Center
Special Treatment Unit
8 Production Way
Avenel, NJ 07001
732-499-5653
Mobile: 310-980-8715
decrisce.md
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X2l0ZW1JZD03ODIw

33) From: Dean De Crisce
I wasnt aware of the Nuova Simonelli. I'll have to look into that. I
guess some decision boils down to (ha ha) a decision between HX and
double boilers. I wish one thing had everything I wanted in one place
(forget coffee...I wish that for everything...who wants to spend big
hard earned bucks and then still tinker with a thing to get it
right...why not make it that way to start). I wish I could go touch
these things in person. I am close enough to be able to see the
andreja at Chris' in Albany...but a pretty far drive from WLL
(brewtus) in Rochester. I think it is now between the brewtus,
andreja, ...and maybe a grimac (1800$). The alex duetto has just about
everything but...dare I say...2500 bucks for a decent cup of coffee is
pushing some kind of mental limit for me. (please don't stone me).
On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 12:21 PM, denis bordeleau  wrote:
<Snip>
all espresso machine perfectionists, specifications scrutinizers and dilemm=
a involved connoisseurs.  I find all these discussions and obsevations very=
 interesting, it saves us a lot of time and opens our eyes to a forgotten m=
achine or reveal a problems unseen on paper but obvious to the user(s).   D=
id I miss something or the Nuova Simonelli has been lowered on the attracti=
ve buyer's list ( Oscar model for about $1100.00 and others more pricey).  =
Are they still as good as they once were? I heard of one online store that =
will stop selling them. For all your other choices between one thousand and=
 two thousand dollars, I agree with you.  What is or will be the next Ranci=
lio Sylvia sleeping pearl, if there is one and at what price? Sure, it is o=
ften a matter of preferences, but the basicsof a good machine are almost al=
ways the same and the Alex Duetto and the Andreja Premium
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. Obtenez votre nouvelle adresse maintenant  http://cf.new.mail.yahoo.c=om/addresses.
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ee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
-- =
Dean De Crisce, MD
Ann Klein Forensic Center
Special Treatment Unit
8 Production Way
Avenel, NJ 07001
732-499-5653
Mobile: 310-980-8715
decrisce.md
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