HomeRoast Digest


Topic: new I-Roast or Hottop (58 msgs / 1545 lines)
1) From: leslee berringer
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Thanks Jim.  So this is my final question.  The new Hearthware I-Roast =
is coming out and I am wondering if this would be a good choice since I =
only need to roast a fairly small amount every three days or so, about =
126 grams/3 days more or less, or should I spring for the Hottop?  (On =
the Hearthware end they have corrected the prototypes so that roasts can =
go all the way to charcoal, and the last kink they ironed out was the =
chafe collector.  Final masterpiece should be here in a few weeks.  Got =
this info straight from Hearthware.)
Every bit of input will be appreciated to be sure!
Leslee Berringer

2) From: Pecan Jim Gundlach
I don't think people new to roasting should be on the bleeding edge.  
Let those of us who have more experience, and have come accustomed to 
spending more on coffee gadgets, test and review the I-Roast and other =
things.  The record for new kitchen appliance style of rosters is not 
that good.
      Jim Gundlach
On Apr 17, 2004, at 1:12 AM, leslee berringer wrote:
<Snip>
I-Roast 
<Snip>
<Snip>
so 
<Snip>
here 
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
of 
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
I don't think people new to roasting should be on the bleeding edge. 
Let those of us who have more experience, and have come accustomed to
spending more on coffee gadgets, test and review the I-Roast and other
things.  The record for new kitchen appliance style of rosters is not
that good.
     Jim Gundlach
On Apr 17, 2004, at 1:12 AM, leslee berringer wrote:
VerdanaThanks Jim. 
So this is my final question.  The new Hearthware I-Roast is coming
out and I am wondering if this would be a good choice since I only
need to roast a fairly small amount every three days or so, about 126
grams/3 days more or less, or should I spring for the Hottop?  (On the
Hearthware end they have corrected the prototypes so that roasts can
go all the way to charcoal, and the last kink they ironed out was the
chafe collector.  Final masterpiece should be here in a few weeks. 
Got this info straight from Hearthware.)
=
Verdana 
VerdanaEvery bit of input
will be appreciated to be sure!
=
Verdana 
VerdanaLeslee =
Berringer
Arial

3) From: leslee berringer
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
So Jim and anyone kind enough to answer this thread.....does this mean =
the Hottop is recommended?  Actually I may have need for roasting a much =
larger quantity than I anticipated..much much larger perhaps leading to =
industrial size....which raises many more questions.   But assuming I =
start small with the Hottop, are there very many gadgets and accessories =
necessary to get excellent quality roasts of all types?  And if so, what =
are they?
Thank you again for all and any input.
Leslee Berringer

4) From: prentice
A popper is definitely the best way to get into this.  You'll get to learn a lot
about roasting before spending a large sum.  Heck, you may even decide to NEVER
get a home roaster!
My 0.02c?  Get a popper for roasting, drop a bundle on a grinder (Mazzer), and
get a decent espresso machine.
Prentice
Quoting leslee berringer :
<Snip>

5) From: prentice
A popper is definitely the best way to get into this.  You'll get to learn a lot
about roasting before spending a large sum.  Heck, you may even decide to NEVER
get a home roaster!
My 0.02c?  Get a popper for roasting, drop a bundle on a grinder (Mazzer), and
get a decent espresso machine.
Prentice
Quoting leslee berringer :
<Snip>

6) From: prentice
Sorry, I got confused.  Thought you were looking for roasting for home use. 
It's been a looooong day!  ;)
Prentice
Quoting prentice:
<Snip>

7) From: Pecan Jim Gundlach
On Apr 19, 2004, at 4:33 PM, gin wrote:
<Snip>
Well, that is a 100% improvement.
    Jim Gundlach

8) From: DJ Garcia
Leslee,
I use nothing else but the HotTop to do my roasts, as far as the roaster
is concerned. Anything else I use I would use with whatever roaster I
was using, e.g. coffee database in a PC, containers, etc.
Hmm, was that statement too confusing?
DJ
Confused by the smell of fresh roasted coffee beans ...

9) From: John Blumel
On Apr 19, 2004, at 7:31pm, DJ Garcia wrote:
<Snip>
I used Google to translate DJ's message from Excited Coffee Geek to 
English. Here's what I got back:
I have a Hottop and use it. If I were to use another roaster, I would 
continue using my current roasting accessories -- coffee database, 
containers, etc. -- with whatever other roaster I might use.
John Blumel

10) From: DJ Garcia
<Snip>
English.
Thanks for the service, John :-). English is my fourth or fith language,
down the road from Spanish, LISP, Cobol, C, Java ...
DJ
Confused and Confusing, but somehow charming and occasionally useful in
his own way (he hopes) ...

11) From: DJ Garcia
Ditto, Rick :-) 
DJ

12) From: John Blumel
On Apr 21, 2004, at 5:38pm, leslee berringer wrote:
<Snip>
In my opinion, the flavor differences between fluid bed and drum roasts 
have little to do with smoke exposure and are mostly due to the roast 
duration/profile. Personally, I like the coffee from my Hottop much 
better than anything I ever roasted in my Hearthware Precision.
John Blumel

13) From: Ed Needham
I am thinking that some actual 'hands-on' fun with a few different types of
roasters might answer most, if not all your questions.  It's all just
'concept' right now, until you actually see it done and taste the
differences.  Maybe it's time for a couple of road trips to check out what
other homeroasters are getting from their machines.  You may have mentioned
it but where are you located?  Homeroasters?  Are any of you within an hours
drive for Leslee to come and visit and roast a bit?
Someone want to send her beans roasted in a popper?  Hottop?  Fresh Roast
Plus? Hearthware Precision (I can do that),  Drum (I can do that), Wok?  Dog
Bowl/Heat Gun?  Confectioners torch?
I think you're just going to have to find a way to 'experience' the
differences before they make sense.
*******************************
Ed Needham
To Absurdity and Beyond!
homeroaster ... d.o.t ... com
*******************************

14) From: miKe mcKoffee
Some might ask the question Leslee asked the other way around: is it
possible to achieve the taste of a drum roast from an air roaster? Or is the
profile of the roast more important than the roaster itself? To a great
extent I believe the answer is yes. A gradual 15-18 minute Rosto roast with
very minimal airlfow and following the same temperature profile of a HotTop
will indeed produce a very similar roast. Most of my roasts are inbetween a
stock HotTop and a stock Rosto, in the 11 to 13min range...
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer etc.http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htm

15) From: Jean
Leslee, I'm not sure you really want to come up with a 'smokeless' way of
roasting coffee.  While I haven't heard of anyone putting coffee beans in a
smoker, the smoke that is created in the roasting process may be an
important component of our end flavor.
I don't know if I'm going to be able to put my thoughts to the right words
or not, so my apologies in advance for rambling. . .
In cooking, how you get to the end has a huge impact on flavor.  A boiled
chicken breast tastes different than a fried chicken breast.  To take it a
step further, even at the same temp, how an item is cooked affects flavor.
Take that same chicken breast at 400 degrees - broiled, fried, baked, BBQ,
etc, - each cooking method is going to affect flavor and texture.  (And,
while a lot of smoke in the house may not be a good thing, it can have a
very favorable affect on what we are cooking and may be an important part of
the flavor we are seeking.)
Hoping my point came across somewhere in all that,
Jean

16) From: AlChemist John
That was my train of thought some time ago.  At that time I had a number of 
people roast me up the same bean by 4 different methods, from air roast to 
drum roast over a hardwood fire.  I then analyzed the coffee for typical 
smoke flavor components on a GC/MS to see if any trends could be found in 
relation to the roast method.  The results were a little surprise to 
me.  Across the board there was very little smoke components (phenols) 
regardless of method.  That coincided with my taste evaluation of beans.  A 
good smoking (for food) usually is a good hour at least in a porous 
medium.   Coffee beans just don't seem to pick up a masking smoke flavor IMO.
I am with Ed.  No offense intended, but you need to taste some coffees and 
try some roasting.  You are taking "theory" a little too far.  All the 
fancy equipment, hacked or not, isn't going to give you a perfect cup if 
you, the roaster, don't know when to end a roast.  Likewise, a PID is not 
going to do you hardly any good at all, especially if you don't even know 
what it is.  The human brain is the best roast controller there is.
Sometime around 11:02 PM 4/21/2004, Jean typed:
<Snip>
--
John Nanci 
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.dreamsandbones.net/blog/http://www.chocolatealchemy.com/

17) From: Pecan Jim Gundlach
On Apr 22, 2004, at 8:49 AM, AlChemist John wrote:
<Snip>
John,
     Maybe I will roast some more with mesquite and see if I can change 
your mind.
            Jim  Gundlach

18) From: Pamela Chadwick
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
OK, I am going to bite the bullet and ask something I have wanted to =
know for a while...What is a PID? Simple terms for my simple mind =
please'
Pam
   Likewise, a PID is not going to do you hardly any good at all, =
especially if you don't even know what it is.  

19) From: John Blumel
On Apr 21, 2004, at 11:44pm, Ed Needham wrote:
<Snip>
Were you just checking to see if we were awake?
John Blumel

20) From: John Blumel
On Apr 22, 2004, at 4:54pm, leslee berringer wrote:
<Snip>
<Snip>
see 
<Snip>
Leslee, are you sure this came to the list? I don't seem to have 
received his message.
John Blumel

21) From: DEchelbarg
John,
I personally emailed to Aaron an article by Norman Killomon that appeared in 
the Fresh Roast Magazine on the difference between air roasting and drum.  He 
comes off as an air guy.  I'm not sure if I can attach an article for everyone 
on this list.  If you want a copy just email me and I'll send it.
Dave Echelbarger 

22) From: Ben Treichel
Pamela Chadwick wrote:
<Snip>
Read this.http://www.homeroaster.com/geekmod.html

23) From: AlChemist John
Sure, that would be great.  I would love to experience that.  Really.  I am 
going by that Ugandan you roasted for me a while back.  Just really great 
coffee.
Sometime around 07:25 AM 4/22/2004, Pecan Jim Gundlach typed:
<Snip>
--
John Nanci 
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.dreamsandbones.net/blog/http://www.chocolatealchemy.com/

24) From: David Lewis
At 8:53 AM -0700 4/22/04, Pamela Chadwick wrote:
<Snip>
The term as used here refers to a common form of industrial process 
controller. It stands for Proportional-Integral-Derivative, which 
refer to the three terms in the equation used to take the error (in 
this case how far the temperature is from where you want it to be at 
a given moment) and figure out how much to change the output (in this 
case what proportion of full power to give the heater).
Best,
	David
-- 
"Nature abhors a moron."
H.L. Mencken

25) From: leslee berringer
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Hi John Blumel,  I can't find the email I was intending to send to you =
either in my sent message folder or my drafts folder.  It may have been =
deleted or you may have received it or some portion of it, I am not =
sure.  I have been out of commission for 2 days because my computer and =
I had problems.  I tried to upgrade to MSN 9 and the whole system went =
down and would not connect through my MSN software.  I have spent so =
many hours repairing this and it is nice to be back..so here I am, back =
in coffee-land.  You were right, unbeknownst to me due to my oversight, =
Dave did send me that email directly.  He posted shortly after your =
inquiry to email him if you would like a copy.  Hope you will let me =
know what you think!  Please forgive me for the delay in replying to you =
query.  Thank you.
Best regards,
Leslee Berringer

26) From: John Blumel
On Apr 23, 2004, at 10:40pm, leslee berringer wrote:
<Snip>
you 
<Snip>
I got a copy of the article from Dave. A lot of it dealt with issues 
that really only apply to relatively large roasters -- stuff like build =
up of oils, etc. in exhaust flues. I've copied below some of the 
sections that might apply to home roasters.
<Snip>
With 
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
1. With minimal cleaning, I haven't really seen more build up in oils 
on my Hottop drum than I used to get on my Hearthware Precision roast 
chamber. This could be because a) this issue only becomes significant 
when the batch sizes get fairly large and the roaster gets very heavy 
use, or b) since the Hearthware (and really all of the home air 
roasters, except maybe the poppers) isn't really a fluid bed roaster 
but simply a hot air roaster.
2. I think most drum roasters on the list would disagree that their 
drum roasts are less smooth and more bitter than air roasts they have 
done.
3. As for old, rancid 'carcinogenic tars', whether they actually attach =
to the beans more in a drum roaster than a fluid bed or hot air roaster =
isn't obvious to me. However, I suspect that a) the amounts of these 
are likely to be extremely small in any case and b) roasted coffee 
beans contain carbon and probably all sorts of other compounds that are =
carcinogenic or toxic. Of course, so do grilled foods and all sorts of =
other things we eat. Yet, although coffee, mostly roasted in drum 
roasters, has been extensively tested for causing various cancers, I'm =
not aware of any studies indicating this that have held up to further 
study. If anything, quite the opposite.
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
1. I think 'fumigating' would definitely be too strong a word for the 
Hottop. If you look into the roast chamber during a roast, you 
definitely don't see a cloud of smoke. The exhaust fan seems to do a 
'good enough' job of fumigating the roaster operator instead.
2. In my opinion the smoke produced from the chaff is probably 
insignificant compared to the smoke from the beans and, pound for 
pound, you probably get the same amount of smoke from the beans in an 
air roaster as with a drum.
3. While Jim Gundlach gets a smokey flavor from roasting over pecan or =
other woods, in a Hottop, I don't think the smoking beans are going to =
change the flavor of the roast since the smoke originates from the 
beans.
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
Quite a few drummers on the list have been fairly successful in getting =
thermocouples into their drums for measuring the air temperature in the =
drum.
John Blumel=

27) From: Simpson
John, et al-
The drum v air debate has rolled by many times in the last few years... I
have been a passionate proponent of air roasting in the past but I've
changed my tune recently. I still love my air roaster, but suspect that it
is more what each individual roaster feels comfortable with operating (or
constructing!). I just can't get the whole drum thing in my head so I'd be
happy with it, but I can build an air roaster. Go figure. Ron Kyle went
from dabbling to making some beautiful roasting tools almost overnight... I
still haven't actually fabbed my first drum though I keep collecting parts
and pieces and have for years!
IOW, within reason it is all good.
Ted "I should just get a hottop now that Tom sells them" Simpson

28) From: John Blumel
On Apr 24, 2004, at 12:16am, Simpson wrote:
<Snip>
I'd mostly agree with that. Out of the box, the available home air and 
drum roasters will produce different roasts but which one you prefer 
may have more to do with the designed in roast 'profiles' and your 
taste preferences than with the roasting method.
John Blumel

29) From: miKe mcKoffee

30) From: John Blumel
On Apr 24, 2004, at 1:06am, miKe mcKoffee wrote:
<Snip>
Yes, but I've seen posts in the past were people have stated that they 
prefer the faster roasts that they get in their air roasters so there 
may not be a profile that's ideal for everyone. Of course, we'll all 
just have to wait and see what the final I-Roast is like when it is 
released.
John Blumel

31) From: miKe mcKoffee

32) From: John Blumel
BTW, one factor that I don't think has been mentioned in this 
discussion is simply simplicity.
Unless you have the frenetic energy of MM, don't underestimate the 
impact on your life, and coffee enjoyment, of being able to just roast 
a couple of batches once a week in a Hottop vs. having to roast several 
days a week or several hours one day to keep yourself and your family 
supplied with fresh roasted coffee. The larger batch size of the Hottop 
let's you spend more time drinking coffee than roasting it.
John Blumel

33) From: alfred
John: I'll second that
I have found that a batch size of 300 grams in the Hot Top produces the best
roasts. As another member pointed out, this divides perfectly into three
batches from SM's two pound packs

34) From: miKe mcKoffee

35) From: miKe mcKoffee
But for simplicity I agree the HotTop. I guess for me it's a trade off
giving up some simplicity for flexibility.
KKmKmcK

36) From: John Blumel
On Apr 24, 2004, at 1:27pm, miKe mcKoffee wrote:
<Snip>
Remember Mike, we're talking about roasters 'out of the box'. And, I 
did say, "Unless you have the frenetic energy of MM."
John

37) From: miKe mcKoffee

38) From: Ben Treichel
AlChemist John wrote:
Back from SCAA; had a chand to compare roasts side by side with both 
machines. The hottop delivered more variateal flavor than the I roast.
However, that doesnt consider cost, et.al. and that I can do as good, or 
better with my P1.
<Snip>
-- 
Ben Treichel
Program Manager
S.E Michigan
SwRI
248-232-7365 (o)
248-935-6845 (m)

39) From: Ed Needham
You just missed an incredible opportunity at the roasting seminar of the SCAA
conference in Atlanta this past weekend, to see all the major players in
homeroasting equipment side by side, 'demonstrated by the manufacturers', and
sample the coffee made in a press pot right out of the roaster.  Kenneth
Davids moderated the event.  I think it was 'hands down' for the Hottop
roaster, from the comments I heard on the floor, and my personal experience.
There were so many there from this list and alt.coffee.  A wonderful time.
Owen Egan took thousands of pictures with a professional camera, so whoever
finds the link and pics first can post it here.
Once things settle down, I'd be happy to send a sample from my drum and
Hearthware Precision Leslee.
(Doesn't Sweetmaria's sell the Mylar valved bags?)
*******************************
Ed Needham
To Absurdity and Beyond!
homeroaster ... d.o.t ... com
*******************************

40) From: Ben Treichel
Ed Needham wrote:
<Snip>
Only three, but this should be the link.http://owenegan.com/pix/espresso/scaa2004/index.htm

41) From: Wandering John
On Wed, 2004-04-28 at 08:52, Ben Treichel wrote:
<Snip>
Wow - I don't know where Koffee Klatch is located but their barista can
kick our barista!  I'd stand in line for one of those!

42) From: Ben Treichel
Wandering John wrote:
<Snip>
Isn't that amazing! 3rd place this year, 1st last. Its Mall Coffee!!

43) From: leslee berringer
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Thank you so much Ed.  Did you say you had variac'd or PID'd your =
Precision?  And which drum do you have and is that modified too? 
Since I will be getting an I-Roast, I will certainly send you some =
samples once I have perfected my roasting skill.  Would welcome you =
feedback for sure.  I still have it in my head that since I am new, that =
this roaster will help my learning curve the most because, without =
modifications, I will get a sense of the relationship between =
temperature and time faster than with other roasters.
Regarding the SCAA conference and the hands down HT vote, I had heard =
that the HT only roasted into 1st, stopping more before 2nd than all =
other roasters' roasts. Based on this fact, would you say that the =
results were unable to be compared fairly?
I certainly am too new to have perfected the Yirg. roasting profile, =
especially since I have not yet roasted a single bean.  I am =
theoretically roasting excellently, I must say though.  Perhaps I can =
write a book entitled, the theoretical roaster; what I have theorized =
from the geniuses on the Sweet Maria's Homeroast site. More seriously =
though, just making sure that my knowledge of what went on is accurate, =
and perhaps this affected the cupping reviews based upon what I have =
heard and read.
Again thank you so much for everything and for your patience with my =
newness, and for clarifying this.  Hope my decision to buy the I-Roast =
does not seem too closed-minded.  One has to start somewhere, I feel.  =
With luck, the HT will offer the same features without mods because I =
fear I am not a great modifier.  I did take physics, but it was not =
about coffee modifications so I didn't pay too much attention, got a B.
Leslee Berringer

44) From: Rick Farris
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Leslee writes (to Ed):
<Snip>
skill.
Good lord.  Ed is already in his 40's.  Do you think he'll live that long?
*       Rick

45) From: Jean
Anybody have any comments on the Z&D demo?  (And, did they mention anything
about a new and improved model?)
Jean  :~)

46) From: leslee berringer
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Leslee writes (to Rick)
<Snip>
Leslee Berringer

47) From: Ben Treichel
Jean wrote:
<Snip>
Yeah, I got stuck running them because nobody from the company showed 
up. Worst of the lot.
Ben

48) From: Jean

49) From: Bob
Ben,
Can you elaborate?
I've been using the current ZD for several months now with no issues - was it
the worst of the lot because you got stuck with them, because the others had
better features, because the ZD people were MIA, or ???
Seriously curious. I like the ZD for the "put the beans in and leave it alone"
features.
Bob - I am curious, uh, roasted.

50) From: Ben Treichel
Bob wrote:
<Snip>
In the cup it made Tom's nice yirg taste like an 'unoffensive' cup of 
coffee. We concluded that it roasted too long to get to the requested 
roast. When we tricked it into a shorter roast, via cutting the load in 
half, it still was the weakest in the cup.
<Snip>
-- 
Ben Treichel
Program Manager
S.E Michigan
SwRI
248-232-7365 (o)
248-935-6845 (m)

51) From: bob
Ben,
Thanks - that's too bad // too bad they didn't go to the show, and too bad the
machine did so poorly!
Either I have a superior machine then that one, or I just don't know any better
taste wise. And not having a comparison I don't know!
Bob

52) From: Ben Treichel
bob wrote:
<Snip>
I don't know. Jeff B thought he was getting decent results, and the 
batch I took to a proper (lighter roast) for a Yirg wasn't bad; until I 
told the taster that it was Yirg. Then it was a question. However, It is 
a REAL luxury to be able to try then side by side.
<Snip>
-- 
Ben Treichel
Program Manager
S.E Michigan
SwRI
248-232-7365 (o)
248-935-6845 (m)

53) From: Ed Needham
Thanks Rick.  "...in his 40's sounds way better than turning 50 this August".
Definitely not a challenge.  I've been put in my place too many times to do a
roasting challenge.
*******************************
Ed Needham
To Absurdity and Beyond!
homeroaster ... d.o.t ... com
*******************************

54) From: Ed Needham
I'd have to agree.  It seemed puny and underpowered next to the big
dogs--Hottop, FR, Alpenrost and I-Roast.  I thought the coffee we brewed
after roasting in the Z&D was pretty good <<>> Ben told me it was a
Yirg.  The Z&D brought out practically none of the best flavors as did the
Hottop and I-Roast.
Roasts I did with Chuck Koby (on this list occasionally and from Louisville)
in his Z&D were slow to develop, had quite a bit of roasted chaff in the
finished beans, but tasted good.  Aside from seeming a bit weak, I thought it
was a pretty good machine, but next to the others, it pales.
*******************************
Ed Needham
To Absurdity and Beyond!
homeroaster ... d.o.t ... com
*******************************

55) From: Ed Needham
I don't think it is totally fair to make a 'definitive' judgment of the Z&D
based on what we did at the SCAA roasting lab.  There was no attempt to bring
the roasts to the same level between roasters, and there was little
consistency in how the brew was prepared as to grind and extraction time.  We
did use the same beans though, but that's about it.
A true head to head would likely show some differences though, and I'd bet
the Z&D roasts would turn out flatter, with less varietal detail than the
Hottop or the I-Roast.
I now have only about a half dozen roasts under my belt with a Z&D and only
three on a Hottop and I-Roast, so I hope no one considers my opinion as fact.
*******************************
Ed Needham
To Absurdity and Beyond!
homeroaster ... d.o.t ... com
*******************************

56) From: Ben Treichel
Ed Needham wrote:
<Snip>
Not true. The reference batches were suppose to be into 2nd crack. Most 
looked 'visually' consistent.
I had to roast 4 batches to get the reference roast due to getting use 
to the Z&D because I never expected to need to hot roaster and 20 
minutes to get there. You have to set the time when you start, no time 
add, or etc.
<Snip>
Again I don't believe this is true. The volunteers used the same 
grinder, and timed the press time.
<Snip>
-- 
Ben Treichel
Program Manager
S.E Michigan
SwRI
248-232-7365 (o)
248-935-6845 (m)

57) From: Ed Needham
...but the controls in our setup were 'loose'. A quasi-scientific test at
best, but not conclusive.
 Granted, I am a believer in what I tasted, and the Hottop and I-Roast both
looked and felt more substantial than the Z&D, and 'seemed' to make a better
roast.  But to be fair, I also have to balance it out with the roasts I did
in my kitchen when Chuck Koby brought his Z&D over to roast.  I remember the
roasts being good--maybe even impressive.
And the test in Atlanta was only one machine against the other, which means
that either machine could be better or worse than the baseline for that
model.
I'm not totally discounting what we tasted.  I'm just saying that nothing we
did was 'conclusive' for all Z&D roasters or all Hottop or I-Roast roasters.
*******************************
Ed Needham
To Absurdity and Beyond!
homeroaster ... d.o.t ... com
*******************************

58) From: Ed Needham
...but the controls in our setup were 'loose'. A quasi-scientific test at
best, but not conclusive.
 Granted, I am a believer in what I tasted, and the Hottop and I-Roast both
looked and felt more substantial than the Z&D, and 'seemed' to make a better
roast.  But to be fair, I also have to balance it out with the roasts I did
in my kitchen when Chuck Koby brought his Z&D over to roast.  I remember the
roasts being good--maybe even impressive.
And the test in Atlanta was only one machine against the other, which means
that either machine could be better or worse than the baseline for that
model.
I'm not totally discounting what we tasted.  I'm just saying that nothing we
did was 'conclusive' for all Z&D roasters or all Hottop or I-Roast roasters.
*******************************
Ed Needham
To Absurdity and Beyond!
homeroaster ... d.o.t ... com
*******************************


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