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Topic: Utopia = Different Strokes... (10 msgs / 230 lines)
1) From: robot .
 
For the price of one Utopia, I can buy... 3 Bodum Vacuum pots, or two small 
Harios, or 1/2 Kona... And know they are made of glass. They won't be 
picking up old coffee flavors like plastic is want to do.  I can clean them, 
don't have to worry about making quarts of coffee, and most important...I 
don't have to look at it. After collecting a fair number of old Cory 
(including the rubberless model) and Silex Coffee pots, my two absolutely 
beautiful Hario (the Musee and the Nouveau 5) and my everyday Bodum with a 
Hario filter setup in it, I think that Starbucks unit looks like a 74 
Subaru. Lots of plastic, badly designed.
But once again, to each his own.
This weekend, weather permitting, I will get to some serious roasting of the 
fine beans sent to me by T+M. I have the thermometer calibrated and the 
stopwatch handy. Will post notes on Monday.
tim o'brien (the vacuum pot snob)homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast

2) From: coffenut
I wasn't trying to say "my pot is better than your pot"..just what I like
about my pot.  Like you said, "each to their own".
Coffenut  :^)
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3) From: t
I have been accused of being a coffee snob... I'm not. I could care less
how anyone enjoys their coffee... But I AM a design snob. It's why I
drive a well engineered car, keep simple but effective tools in my
workshop, and use coffee pots that were, and are, well designed for the
purpose that was intended. I like even complex things simple.
Some good reading, for those interested, is... "Design for the Real
World", by Viktor Papnecek. He details a whole lot about realy useless
design and engineering that goes on in the world. I have detailed some
of the weaknesses in the Utopia. Price, design, asthetics,
longitivity...  After that, to each their own.
Great roasting, great brewing,
tim
coffenut wrote:
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4) From: coffenut
For goodness sake, this is a $139 purchase that has a 2 year warranty...not
a $50,000 automobile.  You could bone-pick any product for weaknesses and
aesthetics, but in the end, beauty and usefulness is in the eye of the
individual consumer.
Coffenut  :^)
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5) From: robot .
 
I hate to tell you, 139 bucks is a LOT of money to some of us. The 
goilfriend was just talking the other day about that Kitchenaid coffee 
grinder/maker... I pointed out to her, that kind of money ($110) gets us a 
real coffee roaster when we can afford to be frivolous.
My superb engineered vehicle is a bulletproof 92 Toyota Pickup with 140K on 
it. Cost all of $9,000 and I have put less than $600 in it in maintenance. 
It's the same sort of reasoning that will influence which coffee roaster I 
wind up with. I am sort of leaning towards rebuilding a popcorn popper with 
a computer controlled heat setup. It's a bit too much like the work I do. I 
try not to cross my personal and professional lives. I will probably wind up 
with one of the HW's.
I agree that each user needs to evaluate his or her own preferences. That's 
why the title says "Different Strokes...". But opinions, even strong ones, 
are what makes the world go round.
tim
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6) From: Henry C. Davis
sounds like you would be at home in the arts and crafts movement around the
turn of the last century. Simplicity of design is often overlooked these
days because marketroids want something to tout as special and do not see a
superior product that is plain as anything they can sell to most people.
This is the kind of thinking that gets us a little kite tail on the Dalkon
shield. While I tend to agree that simple clean lines and form that follows
function are good things, that does not prevent experimentation with new
materials, techniques or designs. Besides, I am a technology and gadget
freak as well as an historian.... which is why I am roasting coffee with the
Hearthware Precision!

7) From: coffenut
The title may have said "different strokes", but the message within is far
from "open minded".  To say the Utopia is over priced, leaves plastic taste,
is ugly, etc is based upon your opinion (not having owned one).
Coffenut :^)
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8) From: Margaret Marks
Yes, I can imagine people thinking the Utopia looks ugly - I don't - and
being too expensive - but a lot of thought has gone into the design. If
design means function, you can scarcely fault it. It's also fairly
idiot-proof. I got one half-price (shop closing down) for my brother. You
can tell how the lid goes on and pull the funnel out. It isn't paper-thin
and fragile like the glass Bodum. The lid fits logically, the filter is an
improvement on the glass Bodum (what wouldn't be).  Both work better on
larger quantities. Mine still looks good. The polycarbonate is very tough;
it has to be, because you wrench out the funnel.
Coffenut wrote:
The title may have said "different strokes", but the message within is far
from "open minded".  To say the Utopia is over priced, leaves plastic taste,
is ugly, etc is based upon your opinion (not having owned one).
robot wrote:
Some good reading, for those interested, is... "Design for the Real
World", by Viktor Papnecek. He details a whole lot about realy useless
design and engineering that goes on in the world. I have detailed some
of the weaknesses in the Utopia. Price, design, asthetics,
longitivity...
What does Papnecek say about the Utopia? Aesthetics is a personal matter,
price is not design, longevity we don't know, design is not defined.
Margaret Marks
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9) From: robot .
 
OH...
Now I see the confusion.
I am not very open minded about "the Unit". I have evaluated it, I have 
expressed an opinion. I was open to hearing what others might say about it 
that might contradict my impression. That's discussion.
"Different strokes" is the idea that you might look at the same set of facts 
and come up with a different conclusion and buy it. Fine by me. I just am 
not going to change my mind based on any arguments put forth so far. If you 
bought it and you like it, fine. But tell me how it is worth more than three 
times what a Bodum Santos costs. Tell me how you justify this kind of price 
for a unit that may pick up gawdawfull flavors from continual use, might 
crack from overstressing the plastic with heat, and has a very good chance 
of drifting away from temperature calibration without you, the user, knowing 
it?
Am I NOT allowed to have an opinion that I will back up with what I have 
observed?
tim
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10) From: coffenut
Tim,
Maybe I missed something, but what actual experience do you have using the
product?  All I've seen from you thus far is it doesn't fit your perceptions
and beliefs.  Does someone simply relating their experience with a new
product have to measure up to your standards each time?  This group is at
it's best when helping one another, not arguing whether one person's new
purchase measures up to someone else's standards.  Why don't we get back to
what we do best?
Coffenut  :^)
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