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Topic: More Gmail (22 msgs / 625 lines)
1) From: gin
Hi Peter:
I am at present in a 
hotel not far from the gathering, hip got a bit to bad to move and sit too long.
I signed up got GMail yesterday right after you sent me the invite. 
I am:
 thergster
not sure how it all works yet but I know Michael Gutermam would like to try it out. He is on the SM list and I do not have his addy handy.
thanks again
ginny
barnes>
Sent: Jun 19, 2004 4:57 PM
To: homeroast
Subject: +More Gmail
I have more invitations to Gmail available (don't ask me why, don't work 
for them, but I've received 37 invites so far).  If you thought you 
missed out, send me an e-mail off-list and I'll do the best I can.  If 
you're curious, what it is, you can go tohttp://gmail.google.comfor 
information. 
btw, Yahoo apparently marks gmail invites as spam, so if you have a 
non-yahoo account, send that to me.
On a coffee note, enjoyed a luscious shot of Kona this morning.  Even at 
a city roast, it's so good, not very acidic at all. 
cheers
peter

2) From: Peter Barnes
I have more invitations to Gmail available (don't ask me why, don't work 
for them, but I've received 37 invites so far).  If you thought you 
missed out, send me an e-mail off-list and I'll do the best I can.  If 
you're curious, what it is, you can go tohttp://gmail.google.comfor 
information. 
btw, Yahoo apparently marks gmail invites as spam, so if you have a 
non-yahoo account, send that to me.
On a coffee note, enjoyed a luscious shot of Kona this morning.  Even at 
a city roast, it's so good, not very acidic at all. 
cheers
peter

3) From: Jeff Wikstrom
Sorry, I'm stupid, but what's Gmail.
Jeff
<Snip>

4) From: John Abbott
On Sunday 20 June 2004 08:50 am, Jeff Wikstrom wrote:
<Snip>
Your not stupid Jeff, just not a computer addict like some of us :O)
GMail is the new web mail program by Google.   It offers its users 1 gig 
of storage and one of the nicest mail programs I've seen.
Currently the program is in beta testing and you cannot subscribe. 
However some of the early adopters are now able to issue invitations to 
others to join.   I'm indebted to Peter for getting me on-board.  It is 
an ideal web mail program since it can be accessed via any local 
network - perfect for travelers.
John

5) From: Jean
Big Brother Email - a 'free' email service (like Hotmail) except that, =
by signing up, the sender gives permission for ALL the mail (incoming =
AND outgoing) to be scanned (read!) so that ads can be attached and =
profiles created, which then become the property of Gmail, to be =
marketed, etc.
No thanks.
Jean  :~/

6) From: Jeff Wikstrom
Actually, I do now remember reading about it in PCMag and a few newsletters.
I used to be more nutty.  I love computers.  Grew up on them.  Most people
consider me the nerd in a circle of friends.  But, I find that it's just
become another obsession for me and it is one that is even harder to keep up
with than most.  Seems like computers can be the ultimate materialist rat
race.  Just enjoying my jo.  I would be interested in the Gmail.  It did
sound like a good deal, like I need another email address...
Jeff
<Snip>

7) From: John Blumel
On Jun 20, 2004, at 11:32am, Jean wrote:
<Snip>
And, no doubt according to the fine print, your email probably becomes 
property of Google as well.
John Blumel

8) From: John Abbott
On Sunday 20 June 2004 11:03 am, John Blumel wrote:
<Snip>
Having spent a couple of years in the intelligence community I am among 
the most paranoid about my privacy.  But also being pretty well versed 
on Echelon I can assure you that your email is already being viewed by 
our government and personally I would prefer Google  to be the one 
viewing it.
I must be a very interesting read to whomever reviews it (actually a 
computer scanning for a given set of phrases and/or words)  my mail; 
exciting things about coffee, my jet engine and cement truck roaster, 
not to mention all the international traffic on the Linux community.
I learned very early to not put anything in an email that I wouldn't 
want to be posted on the front page of my local paper.  You have no 
idea what the mail recipient is doing with it.  So I just relax and 
enjoy.   And yeah, I've got some pretty strong encryption capability - 
that's why I use Linux and Kmail.
-- 
~John~ loving life in the slow lane

9) From: Allen Marsalis
At 12:03 PM 6/20/2004 -0400, John Blumel wrote:
 >On Jun 20, 2004, at 11:32am, Jean wrote:
 >
 >> Big Brother Email - a 'free' email service (like Hotmail) except that,
 >> by signing up, the sender gives permission for ALL the mail (incoming
 >> AND outgoing) to be scanned (read!) so that ads can be attached and
 >> profiles created, which then become the property of Gmail, to be
 >> marketed, etc.
            All your base are belong to us!
Now if you remember that one, then you are indeed a true computer
geek..  ;-)
 >
 >And, no doubt according to the fine print, your email probably becomes
 >property of Google as well.
 >
 >
Dunno about this list, but on many lists, the posts become the
property of the list owner.  Depending on the nature of the list,
that can be a bit scary..
Allen
am
"All your bean are belong to us!"

10) From: John Abbott
On Sunday 20 June 2004 11:20 am, Allen Marsalis wrote:
<Snip>
The famous engrish mistranslation of the classic video game Zero Wing 
for Sega Genesis that took the internet by storm!  T-shirts were 
selling like newspapers in February 2001.   But since it was a Sega 
game most computer folks were slow to pick up on it.
-- 
~John~ loving life in the slow lane

11) From: John Blumel
On Jun 20, 2004, at 12:20pm, Allen Marsalis wrote:
<Snip>
Well, on a mailing list you should just assume that all of your list 
mail is public. With Google Mail, you should assume that ALL of your 
mail is public. That includes list mail, private messages to your 
girlfriend or wife or both, everything.
Yes, most ISPs will have access to your mail and some may even archive 
messages for some time but most of them don't have the time or tools to 
go searching through all that mail. Not only does Google have the tools 
and apparently the inclination, but they may be willing to let just 
about anyone use them.
John Blumel

12) From: John Blumel
On Jun 20, 2004, at 12:14pm, John Abbott wrote:
<Snip>
As pointed out in a previous message, Google can easily sell access to 
your email to anyone or even open it up to the public. The government 
is only interested in your email so they can violate your civil rights 
in the name of national security. Who knows what uses commercial 
interests would make of it?
As far as not putting anything in email that you wouldn't want to be 
public, it's not really that simple. While you may not think you've 
given anything about yourself away that you wanted to keep private, the 
ability of software to analyze hundreds or thousands of messages and 
extract and cross reference small pieces of information will result in 
giving away much more about yourself than you ever imagined.
John Blumel

13) From: Allen Marsalis
At 12:35 PM 6/20/2004 -0400, John Blumel wrote:
 >>
 >> Dunno about this list, but on many lists, the posts become the
 >> property of the list owner.  Depending on the nature of the list,
 >> that can be a bit scary..
 >
 >Well, on a mailing list you should just assume that all of your list
 >mail is public.
That's what I'm saying!  I would assume it is "public domain"
but it is not.  Well, it can be, just depends on the list owner's
use policy and declaration.  Most of the time, the list owner
retains full copyrights per his or her wishes.
So for example, lets say a list owner wanted to print a book
based on material in the archives.  Only he can do so if he
wishes it that way.  All the subscribers who actually composed
and posted the material gave up their rights to their prose
upon hitting the "send" button.
So when I post something, even through I feel like I may be
tossing a pearl of wisdom out to the masses, it is also going
to the list owner as well, to do with as he pleases.  (not this
list!  I mean others I subscribe to!)
 >With Google Mail, you should assume that ALL of your
 >mail is public. That includes list mail, private messages to your
 >girlfriend or wife or both, everything.
No, it is not public but perhaps owned by Google itself.  This
is all based on existing copyright law and the use policies
set forth by the service owners/providers.  I haven't read
googles AUP but all the answers lie there..
 >
 >Yes, most ISPs will have access to your mail and some may even archive
 >messages for some time but most of them don't have the time or tools to
 >go searching through all that mail.
ISP's logs don't often have the actual text of the message,
only header info.  Now they do have access to mail sitting
on the server.  This is why I pop my mail every 10 minutes
so the window of opportunity to read my mail on the server
is minimal.  The idea is not to leave it there for long
giving anyone the chance to read it.
Speaking only for myself as an 8 year old ISP, I offer a
privacy policy to all users.  And my policy with staff is
that anyone caught reading a users mail will be fired. I
have no plans of changing this policy and most *local* ISP's
I know feel the same way I do.  I'm not hear to preach, but
please consider using a independent or local ISP over some
billionaire corporation if you really want to do a good thing
for yourself, your local economy, and the Internet in general.
 >Not only does Google have the tools
 >and apparently the inclination, but they may be willing to let just
 >about anyone use them.
 >
It is amazing to me how many people do not care if they are
profiled by a computer and have their info sold to anyone with
a dollar..
Allen
am

14) From: leslee berringer
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Kmail?  Is there really such a thing John A, and if so, what is it?  =
Perhaps just on Linux?  I wish I knew how to use Linux. 
I immediately asked Peter about the privacy issue with Gmail.  Had to be =
a catch with something that good.  Thanks for the tip John Blumel. 
I have MSN and they always say they can't read the content of my email.  =
Maybe they really mean they don't want to because it is too boring.  But =
I have been repeatedly told that they are not able to access to open it =
up, by their highest level techs.  But it does stand to reason if they =
can see subject headers, etc. on email that someone even higher up who =
we never get to contact, has access, if necessary.  They just block it =
from even their highest techs so they can operate their business with a =
certain degree of customer satisfaction.  I do know that in a recent =
court case AOL had to be sued to cough up a trace back to the origin of =
a sender through the numbers assigned to our computers.  Identifying the =
source is still distinct from being able to view the contents (which =
they obviously knew from the recipients side). Sure if someone is in =
your home they can view all with their hands on your computer.  The rest =
I am still unsure of.
Seems to me then it would not take long to fill up 1000 MB of space with =
all the spam you would get with Gmail.  If anyone figures out, or has =
figured out, a way to block ads, spam, etc. please let me know.  This =
Gmail would be great without that feature.  If I could use Gmail and use =
MSN's blocking capabilities, this would be perfect.  Don't know how to =
do this though.  Programs like Adaware might help.  Any input would be =
appreciated.
Leslee Berringer

15) From: John Abbott
On Sunday 20 June 2004 01:17 pm, leslee berringer wrote:
<Snip>
Linux offers a lot - and surprisingly isn't all that tough to use. If 
you pick up one of the Windows like distributions you will be instantly 
at home with it.  Xandros and Lindows (now Linspiration) are excellent 
crossovers for novice users.
<Snip>
[snip]
<Snip>
I have yet to receive a virus, worm or spam via Gmail.  Gmail has a VERY 
active spam filter.
<Snip>
-- 
~John~ loving life in the slow lane

16) From: Oaxaca Charlie
--- leslee berringer  wrote:
 
<Snip>
  In anticipation of the competition coming from Google, Yahoo
just expanded our free mail storage to 100mb from about 3mb.
Their spam catcher gets better all the time and that bulk mail
doesn't count against your storage. You can access your Yahoo
acct. from anywhere. The spell checker is handy. All in all it
seems pretty good to me.
   Charlie
=====
Brick Oven Roasting in British Columbia
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

17) From: sippin
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Not only do I remember that one, but I know where it are kept.http://www.planettribes.com/allyourbase/index.shtmlKenR

18) From: leslee berringer
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Thanks Charlie.  I just spoke with a tech at MSN yesterday, I he sort of =
hinted they will be adding more space too.  Since I am used to MSN, and =
don't know too much about Yahoo, I will investigate.  MSN also has spell =
check and is web based so it too can be accessed from anywhere.  MSN's =
software to save messages to folders, either on the computer or on the =
server is ok too; except that the software takes up quite a bit of =
resource space since the recent upgrade to MSN 9.  You need, I =
personally think, a minimum of 256 RAM and at least 1.7 GHz processing.  =
And of course best if you are running XP.  I am going to get 1 Gig of =
RAM cause I really dislike slow.  Caffeine and slow don't mix.
Leslee

19) From: Allen Marsalis
If you are curious about ISP matters, read on.  Otherwise, sorry
for remaining off-topic. please skip this..
Allen
am
At 02:17 PM 6/20/2004 -0400, leslee berringer wrote:
<Snip>
This is true because passwords are stored in an encrypted format
in the password file and even high level techs cannot decode these.
This is why ISP's will often reset your password to something new,
however they cannot tell you what your old password is because it
is encrypted and they really can't decode it.  Not even the senior
administrator believe it or not.  Passwords are like a "one way street"
so to speak.
<Snip>
The headers are in the log file but not the body of the message,
so everyone can see headers (log file) but it is much harder to
gain access to the user's actual directory to see the body of
the messages as weird as this sounds.  The log file is in
a general directory which has a different password to get into.
I hate to admit it, but MSN is largely telling you the truth (this
one time)  :)
<Snip>
True that if a administrator has "root" privileges, he can gain
access to your directory to read or delete email, or change your
password, but few admins have this highest level of privileges
which is also called "superuser" access or "SU".  And even with
root, they can't decode a password, but merely change it as I
stated previously.
There is a popular ball cap going around geekdom.  Instead of
saying "Got Milk?"  it simply says "Got Root?"  (if not, then you
are supposedly a nobody by comparison)  It's an ego thing..
<Snip>
Well there are two sides to this coin.  Actually the best position
for an ISP to be in is to keep as few records as possible since
there is no law requiring ISP's to keep records.  We keep our log
files purely for technical reasons and purge them ASAP to limit
our exposure to liability.  We keep our mail server logs about 3-4
days is all.  ISP's can be sued for providing info or be sued for
not providing info.  It really sux but to err on the safe side is
to NOT play police.  That is not our job as ISP's.
<Snip>
Hehe, find a really good local ISP who uses one of these:http://www.barracudanetworks.com/You will be happy...  0 viruses and about 90-95% reduction in
spam.  The rest of the spam can be handled by whitelist and
blacklist features and other user settings.  There is no reason
to suffer with spam unless you must use a bad ISP for some reason.
<Snip>
Really good spam filtering will give the user a webpage for a
personal "control panel" to set things to your particular likes
and dislikes.  This includes a low, med high, filter setting plus
whitelists and blacklists so you decide and configure it to your
tastes..  I'm assuming gmail has all this, but maybe not..  We
provided a means for users to "tune" their spam filter settings
years before the big nationals caught on..  Now most use something
like Postini http://www.postini.com)which is a wholesale service
ISP's subscribe to rather than a server appliance like Barracuda.
But they do the same thing.  We call this "MX scrubbing" inside
the business.  Unscrubbed mail is so bad it makes my skin crawl
and there is no reason for it other than being a cheap/lazy ISP
or mail server admin..
Allen
am

20) From: Angelo
<Snip>

21) From: Angelo
<Snip>
So, all those wonderful Coffee Haikus will be put in a book by Tom???  Cool!

22) From: gin
could not agree more but is there really any safe internet email?
ginny
 >>>John wrote:
At 09:42 AM 6/20/2004, you wrote:
<Snip>


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