HomeRoast Digest


Topic: New to roasting (101 msgs / 2514 lines)
1) From: Mike M
Hi, I'm new to coffee roasting and just this weekend I received my Caffe Rosto roaster and a few different types of coffee from Sweet Marias. 
I roasted 4 oz. of Moka Kadir blend for 11 minutes, what is supposed to be Full City+ according to the roaster's instructions. The roast turned out nicely, dark but no oil on the beans, and since I couldn't wait to try some I ground it after a few hours and it made the most wonderful cup of espresso!  
My question is how do I tell first crack from second crack, etc? I think I can hear what might be called a cracking or popping sound, but it's hard to tell over the sound of the beans spinning in the roaster. 
I'd like to be able to duplicate my roasting results, but since my first roast in the machine I've noticed some types of beans will roast much darker at 11 minutes producing dark oily beans after 24 hours, while others will be lighter, like the Moka Kadir blend. 
I know I shouldn't blindly trust the timer on the roaster, but I'm finding it difficult to tell when the "...roast is stopped while second crack is extremely rapid, and shows no sign of slowing down", etc. 
Any pointers or resources I could look to? 
Thanks,
Mike
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2) From: Steve

3) From: coffenut
Mike,
Welcome and glad to hear you're already having success!  From my experiences
with the AlpenRost, 1st crack is usually individual snaps that are typically
separated by a few seconds and usually louder in volume than 2nd crack.  2nd
crack is more muted in volume and the cracks are steady with little or no
pause between crack sounds.  As others have noted, there is usually a pause
between 1st and 2nd where the cracking sounds die down.
The other thing to watch is false 1st cracks.  Sometimes a lone bean will
snap a minute or two early (before the true 1st crack begins).  On the
AlpenRost, this usually occurs if a bean get's lodged in the drum and
doesn't get to tumble with the rest.  A while back, someone in this group
shared the 10 second rule for 1st cracks that has been useful.  If the true
1st crack has begun, the other beans will usually start cracking within 10
seconds.  If the rest of them don't start, it was likely an early bean.
One thing's for sure, unless you've got a hearing impairment, with
experience you'll get very good at distinguishing the cracks.  Hope this
helps,
Coffenut  :^)
<Snip>
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4) From: Mike M
After posting my last message I browsed around the Sweet Maria's Web site and found a wealth of info on the subject. Serves me right for not RTFM ;-)
Mike M
-

5) From: cthomas
To Mike M:
Glad you discovered the resources.  For some beans, I and others found,
there may be a big overlap between 1st and 2nd crack.  Others have a big
gap between.  Sitll others seem not to have a 2nd crack no matter how long
they roast.
Carl T.
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6) From: John Blumel
On Wed, 4 Apr 2001 22:25:59 -0500, cthomas wrote:
<Snip>
Case in point...
This morning, in my HWP, I roasted 2 batches of SM's new crop
Mandheling -- these beans are by far the largest of any that I have.
Usually, and I believe this is the experience of most HWP users, the
beans roast very evenly with 1st crack being a relatively short
distinct event separated from 2nd by a definite interval. 
The Mandheling, however, was completely different. First crack was a
sort of stretched out spasmodic event that, with the exception of one
loud pop at at the beginning, I could have easily missed if I had not
been paying attention. I stopped the roasts at the point where 2nd
crack had reached what others have described as 'rolling', waited for
the cooling cycle to end and dumped the beans into a mesh colander.
Upon visual inspection the roasts were extremely uneven. Some beans had
clearly been into 2nd crack and little craters and bean fragments were
in evidence. Other beans looked like they had just made it to City.
Strangest of all, some beans actually seemed to be half and half -- at
least one with a crater on one end and a light brown color at the
other.
I assume that this is probably unique to hot-air roasters and that the
roast would be much more even in a commercial roaster or the Alp. I am
not at this point complaining as it seems that, theoretically at least,
this should be a very interesting roast to sample in a couple of days
with flavors from almost the entire roast spectrum.
On the downside, the mosquitoes are finally out in force and I barely
made it back into the house before the blood loss was too severe. I was
considering getting a zapper but, given the size of the mosquitoes, I'm
afraid the power drops during the zaps might confuse the HWP's chip.
John Blumel
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7) From: Ryuji Suzuki -- JF7WEX
From: "John Blumel" 
Subject: Re: +RE: New to roasting
Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 10:10:54 -0500 (CDT)
<Snip>
Hot air roasters give supposedly more even roasting than direct heat
or convection type of similar capacity. Together with its strong power
to take away moisture and other components away from the bean, in my
opinion the fluid bed types are better suited for lighter end of roast
especially with new crop of washed varieties.
Since there have been several postings discussing about light roasts I
have tried a few but I had to double roast to get even result in my
oven. (First time at low temp to get some moisture out, still yellowish
color, but not to caramelize any part of the coffee, let it sit
overnight, then the next day to push to cinnamon roast.)
Anyhow, I need frequent attention to make even roast in my gas oven.
<Snip>
Do you happen to know how does the zapper works?
--
Ryuji Suzuki
Q. What is your real message?
A. Keep a good head and always carry a light bulb. (Bob Dylan 1965)
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8) From: John Blumel
On Thu, 05 Apr 2001 11:55:06 -0400, Ryuji Suzuki -- JF7WEX wrote:
<Snip>
Well, I've never actually owned one but they seem to be basically a
light that works mostly at the UV end of the spectrum, which attracts
the mosquitoes, surrounded by an electrical grid. The mosquitoes go for
the light and zap! They hit the electric grid and die a horrible death
from electrocution. People don't seem to use these in Louisiana -- the
local Power Grid probably couldn't handle the current draw -- but they
were quite popular in New York and Ohio in the 80s and early 90s.
Auditorially you get a sort of zzz ... zzz . zzzz ....... zzz effect as
they hit the grid with the occasional zzzzzzzzzzzz that is probably
caused by either a moth or a mosquito that spent its larval stage in a
pool outside a nuke plant.
I've also recently seen a device that sports a CO2 tank and, I believe,
some sort of vacuum trap. The CO2 simulates breath and attracts the
mosquitoes and just when they think they are about to get a meal, they
get sucked into the trap. Ha!
Of course, the worst mosquitoes I have ever seen were at Wonder Lake in
Denali National Park, Alaska. Not only were they huge but they were in
clouds so thick that the competition for blood made them go after each
other. Just to get out of there alive you had to wear Desert Storm
surplus insect repellent that left most of the other tourists with
minor neurological damage.
John Blumel
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9) From: John
Of course, the worst mosquitoes I have ever seen were at Wonder Lake in
Denali National Park, Alaska. 
John Blumel
----------------
John,
	Isn't the mosquito the Alaska State bird?
John - wandering around in deep southern Texas
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10) From: Andrew Thomas
John,
   Your experience with Mandehling is probably just characteristic of the coffee, and not an indication that something is wrong. Anyway, let us know how it turns out. 
   BTW, do some research before you get a zapper. I've never owned one, but it's my understanding that they are useless for mosquito-control, and only attract relatively harmless insects, like moths. One way to check it out might be to look in the tray of the zapper at your local drive-in restaurant (or where ever) and see what species of corpses are there. Just a thought.
Free e-mail!  you
A service of www.WallaWallaGuide.com
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11) From: Ken Mary
The new crop Mandheling that I have is normal size and roasts normally except
for much fewer pops in first crack. This seems to be typical of the Mandheling,
as last year's crop was similar in behavior. This is where time and/or
temperature may give you better results than watching and listening.
Your description of unevenness seems to indicate poor mixing. Double check your
assembly and look for damaged or poorly fitting parts. If parts are ok then
reduce the amount of beans.
IMO the most even roasting occurs in the true fluid bed roasters that use a full
diameter bottom screen.
Are you sure a brain cell did not misfire when you typed Mandheling and meant
Maragogype? These are easiy distinguished as large due to the normally 20+
screen size. These are much more difficult to lift in the airstream and require
a smaller load.
--
----------
<Snip>
<Snip>
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12) From: John Blumel
On Thu, 05 Apr 2001 14:00:30 -0400, Ken Mary wrote:
<Snip>
No, I don't even have any of the Maragogype. 
It's quite probable that, as you suggest, I would need to reduce the
load size to get an even roast with this bean. On the other hand,
depending on how it tastes -- I'll probably let it rest 48-72 hours
before I try it -- I may just want to leave things as they are. 
(I'm pretty sure there are no problems with the roaster and that it was
properly assembled. Of course, if all my roasts start to turn out
uneven...)
John Blumel
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13) From: cthomas
<Snip>
it's my understanding that they are useless for mosquito-control, and only
attract relatively harmless insects, like moths. One way to check it out
might be to look in the tray of the zapper at your local drive-in
restaurant (or where ever) and see what species of corpses are there. Just
a thought.
<<
Andrew and John,
The zapper uses a UV light to attract all sorts of bugs and electrocutes
(fries?) them between high voltage-charged grids.  It think it is correct
that they are less ejjective against mosquitoes, probably because the
mosquito is more infrared sensitive (human temperature) that UV sensitive
(daytime navigation).  However, most of the stores that I've seen sell
zappers also sell small tabs thatget attached outside the grid.  As I
recall it acts like a mosquito sex lure and increases the effectiveness of
the zapper.  I've got two and there are almost as many fried mosquito
corpses as any others.  If you use a zapper, don't put it upwind of any
food prep or eating area as the dust from the crematorium is not sterile! 
Since I moved back east from SoCal,  I've had to learn to live again with
mosquitoes.  We never saw them in California.  When we lived in
Massachusetts, we lived near a marsh (swamp) and every night as sundown
approached in the summer, this black mist would come up out of the "marsh".
 Time to get inside fast.  That's where I learned the value of the zapper,
though there it barely made a dent in the population and had to be cleaned
daily the bodies were so dense.
The upside of the experience was that that's where I learned the value of
whole bean coffee.  That was 20 years ago.  Now I've learned the value of
roasting my own coffee, have two zappers, and fewer mosquitoes than New
England, so I am looking forward to sitting out in the evening sipping my
newly roasted and ground coffee, watching the deer, and listening to the
woodsey sounds not overwhelmed by the zzz ... zzz . zzzz ....... zzz of
frying mosquitoes.
Cheers,
Carl T.
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14) From: Keith Parker
Hi John,
I've been a Hearthware owner for about 1-1/2 years now. When I detect that a
bean was roasting unevenly (during the roast), I pick the unit up every 60
seconds or so and rotate it a bit to mix the beans around. I also make a mental
note to use less of those beans per batch in the future.
Actually you can tell that a bean is going to roast unevenly even before the
uneven roasting is detecatable by eye. If the beans are hardly moving around,
except near the center, then you are going to have problems.
I have a great digital scale and have, at times, thought to see what the weight
differences are between the same volumes of beans. My guess is that the beans
which roast unevenly have a higher density. I seem to recall that I discovered
some time back that 80 grams was about the right amount to use, regardless of
volume.
hth,
Keith Parker
<Snip>
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15) From: John Blumel
On 4/8/01 1:50 PM, Keith Parker wrote:
<Snip>
Yes, I think that the bean volume/mass was the culprit here. Hearthware 
recommends 3oz by weight which would be 84g so 80g would probably work 
well in most cases. I guess I should keep the under the rim of the 
measuring cup until I get a scale.
John Blumel
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16) From: Ed Needham
That's interesting.  I usually have successful roasts at 3.5 oz. or
sometimes slightly more.  Maybe my fan is slightly more powerful.  Any
others care to post their successful roast weights for the HWP?
Ed Needham

17) From: Ralph Cohen
On Mon, 9 Apr 2001 08:52:48 -0400, Ed Needham wrote:
<Snip>
I don't weigh my beans, but I do always level off the beans to just
below the rim of the measuring spoon.  I started doing this when I got
some inconsistent roasts from certain beans like the Kona.  Reducing
the amount of beans improved the agitation and the evenness of the
roast.  OTOH, I recently got some Costa Rican HGA Orosi from Tom and
regardless of how light I make the measure, I still get an inconsistent
roast with a wide range of bean colors.  However, the coffee tastes
great and I figure that the variations just add to the complexity of
the cup.
Ralph Cohen
rpcohen
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18) From: Ed Needham
If I use the scoop instead of my scale, I almost always heap the beans on as
much as I can.  Must be some differences in our machines.  I get really
consistent roasts with mine doing it that way with most varieties.  Very
pretty roasts, usually taken at least to the second crack, for a mildly
shiny matte finish, and looking about a shade lighter than dark chocolate.
Ed Needham

19) From: Carola
 Ed Needham  asked:
 > others care to post their successful roast weights for the HWP
I had a problem w/ a replacement HWP roasting unevenly out of the box
so cut back to 2.5 oz from the 3 that I had roasted successfully in
its dead predecessor.   It works fine.  Probably should have returned
it but just couldn't bear packing up yet another Hearthware.
Mostly, I stick with the Gourmet which has always been more
reliable for me, though I had to return one of them as well...
Carola
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20) From: DeCambre.Peter
I will be out of the office starting  11/26/2002 and will not return
until 12/02/2002.
I will respond to your message when I return.
homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast

21) From: chickpea _
Hello everyone :)  I roasted my first batch of beans in my new Zach and Dan=
i
roaster last night, and I'm excited to learn more (especially since I think
I burned the beans).  I've got a couple of questions.. well I've got many
more than a couple of questions but I've been productively spending my work
day surfing the net to answer some others. :)
Since I am new to this, I am eager to roast many small batches.  Does anyon=
e
know the minimum quantity of beans I can roast in the Z&D?
Also, just something I have to ask -- I've always seen that the recommended
proportion of grounds for brewing is 2 tablespoons per ~6oz desired
coffee..  But I've always used 1 tablespoon because that's just how I
started out and the strength has always seemed on par with coffee I've had
that was brewed by others (individuals and businesses).  Does everyone
really use 2 tablespoons?  Should I?
Thanks in advance for any and all help.

22) From: Wesley Simon
In my 32 oz french press pot, I use 56 grams of coffee.  That's one
tablespoon (7g) per 4 oz cup.  In my 12 cup drip, I use the same ratio.  I
have never measured the actual ounces per cup, but it produces good coffee.
If I were to double that ratio, or even make it 1.5 times, there wouldn't b=
e
enough room in the cone filter for the coffee.  I've tried bumping the leve=
l
of coffee in my press pot and it just seems like a waste of coffee because
it certainly doesn't make it better or much stronger.
On 1/6/06, chickpea _  wrote:
<Snip>
I
<Snip>
t
<Snip>
my
<Snip>
ow
<Snip>
had
<Snip>

23) From: Matt Henkel
On Fri, Jan 06, 2006 at 01:57:26PM -0600, Wesley Simon wrote:
<Snip>
I did a fair bit of experimenting and have found that 56g to 32oz is the
right ratio (for me) in the Krups Moka Brew.
~/Matt

24) From: Lissa
<Snip>
Most Americans make their coffee way too weak. Most Americans also think
that Maxwell House is good coffee. And that they are middle class.
Despite my snobbery, what matters is not what I think, it is what tastes
good to you. What everyone else does is irrelevant. Play around a bit,
roast lighter, roast darker, smell the smoke (which is the best way I've
found to know when to stop a roast) and make coffee that tastes good to
you. Unless you burn your beans, brew really weak and add H2SO4
flavoured syrup to your coffee (before the Cremora, of course), you are
doing it the right way. If it tastes good to you.
Be well,
Lissa
-- 
People who drink coffee have been shown to commit suicide 
less frequently than people who don't.
Jeffery Steingarten, _It Must've Been Something I Ate_

25) From: Barry Luterman
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Minimum amt fill to dark roast line

26) From: chickpea _
Wesley & Matt -- thanks for the tip!  I'll experiment with that ratio and
see how I like it.
Lissa -- you've got a great point.  I've really enjoyed my coffee previousl=
y
(my favorite source of roasted beans is Trader Joe's, and I have an
auto-drip) with the 1 tablespoon for 6oz ratio, but I was wondering what I
was missing if others used 2 tbs to produce something that seemed to me ver=
y
similar to my 1 tbs (actually I usually think my coffee is stronger than
what I get elsewhere).  Regardless of what others do, however, I'll do some
more experimenting of my own to see if I like it stronger.
Barry -- great to know, thanks! :)  I'm guessing the "dark roast line" is
new, because there is very little explanation of it (and it wasn't in the
video, nor on most pictures I see).  I have learned that roasting fewer
beans for the same amount of time will result in a darker roast, and that i=
n
turn has become my explanation for that line.  It's interesting to learn
that it is also a minimum fill line.  Thanks!
On 1/6/06, Barry Luterman  wrote:
<Snip>
I
<Snip>
t
<Snip>
my
<Snip>
ow
<Snip>
had
<Snip>

27) From: Sandy Andina
Depends on the brew method and most importantly, your own tastes.   
For press pot, ground coarse, I do use 2T. per 4-5-oz "tasse" but for  
drip, I generally use 4-5 2T scoops for an 8-c. pot.  The markings on  
my Swiss Gold filter cone confirm that.  I think it makes a nice cup,  
but some folks think even that's too strong! (They tend to be instant  
drinkers who load up on the milk and sweetener). 8 scoops for a drip  
pot would be overly strong, almost like *$ (which I think brews its  
lighter blends ultra-strong so they have the corporate flavor profile  
customers expect).  They also want to sell more coffee (beans or  
ground).
On Jan 6, 2006, at 1:47 PM, chickpea _ wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com

28) From: David Echelbarger
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Yes, I use two Tablespoons per 6 ounces.  I  would not suggest anything
less, at least for these quality beans.  I think 2 tablespoons of a robusta
type coffee would be tough to take.  That's what I find with a number of
folks.  They water down the Folgers type coffee so they can stand them and
that's coffee for them.  Consequently, they have a hard time making a
transition to the correct strength of a fine coffee.  
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of chickpea _
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 2:47 PM
To: homeroast
Subject: +new to roasting
Hello everyone :)  I roasted my first batch of beans in my new Zach and Dani
roaster last night, and I'm excited to learn more (especially since I think
I burned the beans).  I've got a couple of questions.. well I've got many
more than a couple of questions but I've been productively spending my work
day surfing the net to answer some others. :)
Since I am new to this, I am eager to roast many small batches.  Does anyone
know the minimum quantity of beans I can roast in the Z&D?  
Also, just something I have to ask -- I've always seen that the recommended
proportion of grounds for brewing is 2 tablespoons per ~6oz desired coffee..
But I've always used 1 tablespoon because that's just how I started out and
the strength has always seemed on par with coffee I've had that was brewed
by others (individuals and businesses).  Does everyone really use 2
tablespoons?  Should I?
Thanks in advance for any and all help.

29) From: Philip Keleshian
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
To answer your brewing question first.  If the coffee which you are =
brewing suits you continue doing what you are doing.  I think the =
accepted  answer is that if you use too little coffee you will over =
extract.  Brew the coffee with 2 tbs / 6 fld oz and add water to the =
brew if you desire weaker coffee.  Coarseness of the grind and the time =
the grounds are in contact with the water get into the act as well so =
you should experiment to find what you like.
 
Now about the Z&D.  You should be able to roast any amount which the =
auger will agitate properly but keep in mind that smaller loads roast =
faster (backwards from a fluid bed roaster) and may require less =
preheat.  Also the profile will change.  With an un-modified Z&D when =
you find a profile which you like, you should be consistant with your =
batch size. 
 
If you want to see just how nuts you can get with a Z&D check this =
string:
 http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/homeroast/187588?Page=1 
You will find pictures and schematics of my Z&D in the string.
 
Phil

30) From: Turbosimba
Two tablespoons for a six ounce cup and make that two ROUNDED tablespoon  
scoops for an eight ounce mug.   This seems to work for all types of  coffee 
makers, drip, vacuum, french press, etc.
Jeff

31) From: Turbosimba
Hard to burn beans in a Zach and Dani roaster.  The 20 min. default  setting 
seems to produce a light-medium roast, very safe. Turning the setting  down to 
19 min. produces a very light roast. Amazing what happens in a  minute.  I 
think it is best to choose a setting you THINK will produce the  degree of roast 
you want, but BE THERE the last two minutes of roasting so you  can end the 
roast or add time.  The color and the sound of the cracking, as  well as smoke 
smell are all helpful in determining what stage you are in.
Jeff
 
PS I have four roasters:  air pop, Fresh Roast Plus 8, an older  Hearthware 
Precision, and a slightly used Zach and Dani I got on Ebay at a  bargain price. 
 I never use the pop corn popper, too much work, too  unreliable.  I like the 
Fresh Roast Plus 8, but it roasts tiny quantities  and there is little time 
between first and second cracks to get the degree of  roast I want.  The older 
model Hearthware Precision is just great.  A  little loud, but you can really 
SEE the beans change color. It is fast, but not  too fast.  I set it between 4 
and 5 to get anything from very light roast  to almost a Full City. The Zach 
and Dani is also great. It takes a longer time  to roast, but the color is 
very even. There is enough time between the cracks to  really eyeball the beans 
and stop the roast when you want. I usually use the  default 20 min setting and 
sometimes stop it a few seconds before it goes to the  cool setting if I 
think the beans are dark enough. I'm seldom displeased with my  roasts, although 
when trying to do the darker roasts I sometimes get a very dark  French when I 
was going for a Vienna. 
Jeff

32) From: Sandy Andina
--Apple-Mail-8--602930744
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset-ASCII;
	delsp=yes;
	format=flowed
My scoops are 2 T.
On Jan 6, 2006, at 10:54 PM, Turbosimba wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
--Apple-Mail-8--602930744
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charsetO-8859-1
My scoops are 2 =
T.
On Jan 6, 2006, at 10:54 PM, Turbosimba =
wrote:
Two tablespoons for a six ounce cup and make that two = ROUNDED tablespoon scoops for an eight ounce mug.   This seems to = work for all types of coffee makers, drip, vacuum, french press, = etc. Jeff = --Apple-Mail-8--602930744--

33) From: Alchemist John
And as I think Peter discovered, the grinder makes a difference. 1 
T/cup may be what is good from a whirly blade.  At 2 T/cup the fines 
overextract and you get a strongly bitter brew.  With a "proper" 
grind, you can (or have to depending on your POV) increase your 
ratio.  There are less fines so the overall brew is simply stronger, 
but not more bitter.
At 13:44 1/6/2006, you wrote:
<Snip>
John Nanci
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.chocolatealchemy.com/

34) From: chickpea _
Thank you everyone for all the responses!
Some experimenting over the weekend gave me the best taste with 1.5T per
6oz, though I think the biggest impact may have come with the finer grind
that I tried one time.  I had read somewhere that with an auto-drip it's
best to grind as fine as possible without letting it clog the paper filter,
so I gave that a try.  Any thoughts on this?  Also, does anyone know of a
website that shows different grinds so I can get a visual on what others
do?  My only basis for comparison thus far has been what is produced by the
different settings on the store grinders.
As for how I managed to burn my beans in the Z&D, I was aiming for a
medium-dark roast of the Columbian Supremo beans that came with my Z&D.. an=
d
the higher range of roasting time listed in the manual for a medium roast
was 26 minutes, and the lower range for a dark roast was 27.  So I set my
Z&D for 27 and left it alone.  I heard the second crack end with still abou=
t
9 minutes to go before the cool-down started, but had not yet learned that
it was important to not let it go past the 2nd crack.  Also, I was trying t=
o
turn my smoke detector off and open windows :)
On 1/7/06, Alchemist John  wrote:
<Snip>

35) From: Alchemist John
I have found I do not like my auto drip very fine, or more to the 
point, I set my grind based on the drip maker I am  using (Cuisinart 
Brew Central) and how it tastes.  I lean slightly to the coarser 
grind, but add more coffee.  I find it gives more of a rounder flavor 
without overextracting.
At 11:28 1/9/2006, you wrote:
<Snip>
John Nanci
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.chocolatealchemy.com/

36) From: Maureen Azcoitia
Hi
I am brand spanking new to home roasting.  I am
waiting for my first shipment of beans to arrive and I
don't even have a roaster yet.  I am planning on
getting a popper this weekend.  I have read almost
everything on Sweet Maria's website, but am still very
nervous (but excited) about roasting.  Any tips or
advice or support would be greatly appreciated.  Also
how do you check for temperature using a popper?
Thanks
Maureen

37) From: Brett Mason
Hi Maureen,
With a popper, you don't really control the temp.  Instead you control
the quantity of beans.  This is almost automatic, and is very easy...
If your beans aren't moving around after a minute or two, you may have
too many beans -OR- you may need to tilt the popper for a minute or
two (the beans are heaviest when you start, and they lighten as
moisture evaporates)
If your beans are moving around crazy nuts, and don't seem to get dark
enough, you may have too few beans - next load use more beans...
You will like what you get.  You will like it even more after a couple
roasts help you narrow in on the target.
The target?  Searching for the perfect cup of coffee...
Brett
  Zassman
On 4/8/06, Maureen Azcoitia  wrote:
<Snip>
ribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>
--
Regards,
Brett Mason
 HomeRoast
   ...who wants to sell his Silvia and pursue an espresso machine upgrade..=
.

38) From:
Maureen,
you will love it here and we will love having you.
ginny
<Snip>

39) From: rnkyle
Maureen, welcome to the wonderfull world of home roasting, for sure, life as 
you knew it will never be the same.
My first popper was a WB-II unmodified with the exception of a Taylor large 
dial thermometer.
I drilled a hole straight down thru the plastic hood.
I just turned it on and gently poured the greens into the chambler untill 
they just barely moved and let it run on its own. Finished at about 4 min or 
5, cant remember.
I have since spit wired the popper to seperate the heater and the fan and 
still use it to sample new beans or when I run out and need some coffee 
right now.
Of course I do nearly all my roasting with drum in a BBQ gas grill now.
good luck
RK
From: "Maureen Azcoitia" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2006 2:36 AM
Subject: +New to roasting
<Snip>

40) From: Lissa
On Fri, 2006-04-07 at 23:36 -0700, Maureen Azcoitia wrote:
<Snip>
Relax. Just about anything you roast is going to be better than what you
can buy. So, have fun, play around, and don't be afraid to ruin a roast
(I've only ruined 2 in 8 or so years of home roasting).
<Snip>
There are instructions on Tom's site for putting a thermometer in a
popper, but it isn't necessary. I've never used one. I go by smell and
by listening for the cracks. If you want to be able to exactly reproduce
a roast, or if you enjoy keeping records, measuring everything and all,
go for it, but, despite a lot of the chatter around here, you don't have
to keep records and measure everything to get very good coffee
consistantly.
Be well,
Lissa
-- 
People who drink coffee have been shown to commit suicide 
less frequently than people who don't.
Jeffery Steingarten, _It Must've Been Something I Ate_

41) From: Maryann & Dave Schellenberg
On the other hand, monitoring roast temperature can tell you about why 
things go wrong.
For example, I would not have known that the thermostat on my PII was 
keeping the temperature too low for proper roasting if I had not been 
watching the cycling temperature on the thermometer I had stuck through 
a hole in the butter dish.
Dave S.
Lissa wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.0/304 - Release Date: 4/7/2006

42) From: Lissa
On Sat, 2006-04-08 at 11:05 -0500, Maryann & Dave Schellenberg wrote:
<Snip>
Yes, you would have. Your roast wouldn't have reached second crack, or
even first crack, and it would have smelled all wrong (which, granted,
someone new might not catch). And your coffee would have tasted
horrible. In a popper, only two things could have caused that - bad
popper or bad beans. If you only buy from Tom, you can pretty much rule
out the later.
This happened to me once. I pulled the little strip of metal out of the
thermostat, and still use that popper.
Some people enjoy measuring temps, weighing beans, keeping records and
all of that. Great, go to it. I don't enjoy it, and I roast very tasty
coffee consistently using just smell and listening for the cracks. I
could make the argument that I'm being all artistic and that the folks
who record everything are taking the soul out of coffee, or are using
records to avoid really learning the beans, but that would be wrong and
inflammatory. There is not one true way to roast coffee. There may be
one optimal roast for each bean, but there are a lot of ways to discover
what that optimal roast is.
Be well,
Lissa
-- 
We want freedom of mind, power and expression, and for that 
reason wish to dissociate work and study.
WEA student quoted in "The Classics in the Slums" by 
Jonathan Rose

43) From: Bill Morgan
Welcome aboard, Maureen!
Thanks for poking me to look back at my oldest logs to remind myself
how things started out, a bit less than two years ago.  Rather than a
dissertation, this will be kind of an outline, so ask for details
about any step that interests you.
Read a lot on the web
Find a thrift store Poppery II
Order greens from Sweet Marias
Start out with 1/2 cup batches in the popper
   5-6 minute roast times 'til 2nd crack onset (too quick)
   Cool beans by pouring between two aluminum colanders
   Erratic light/dark results, but almost all really tasty
Get the long thermometer from Tom, insert it through top of popper
Add 100 ft. extension cord to drop voltage a little
   Now getting 7-10 min times
   A little more feeling of controlling, not spectating
   Still erratic times/results
Get a scale (bean densities vary quite a bit)
   Much more controllable, consistent results
   Experiment, settle on 80 gr. batches for my poppers
Rig a device to switch between wall connection and extension cord
   Now I actually have some control
   Typical 10 min roast times
   Predictable light/dark roasts
This process took about six months.  By that time I had about four
Poppery IIs and a Popcorn Pumper and saw the considerable variation
between different poppers, even of the same model.
Oh, I roast in the garage and just sweep up the chaff when I'm done.
Since then I've gone to cooling with a 12" fan blowing up into a
colander mounted on a cylindrical collar (MUCH faster), tried a Stir
Crazy/Turbo Oven setup (still experimenting) and found a couple of
Poppery I poppers (which are worlds better than the newer models). 
The Popperies are split-wired, with my old extension cord switch
controlling the heater and a new dimmer/boost transformer device
controlling the fan.  I'm now doing 180-200 gr batches in 15 min.
roast times.
For me, a huge part of the fun of roasting is in tinkering with the
gadgets and modifying devices beyond their original purposes.
I hope some of this ramble helps you.
(BTW, "Maureen Azcoitia" is a delightful combination of Irish and
Basque names.  May I inquire...?)
Regards,
Bill Morgan
On 4/8/06, Maureen Azcoitia  wrote:
<Snip>

44) From: Brian Kamnetz
Welcome, Maureen!
I started roasting in a popper too. I had a lot of trouble at first
because i didn't realize that you use amount of green beans to control
the roast in a popper.
You should want to get to first crack at around 4 or 5 minutes. If you
get there too soon, you will probably have the first crack run into
second crack and you will end up with an oily mess. (That happened to
me a lot.) The cure: Use less beans next time.
If it takes longer than 6 or 7 minutes for first crack to start, you
probably want to use more beans next time.
Allow me to summarize:
Roast goes too fast? Fix that by using less beams.
Roast goest too slow? Fix that by using more beans.
Good luck!
Brian
On 4/8/06, Bill Morgan  wrote:
<Snip>

45) From: Scott Marquardt
I'd have to be a voice of dissent on this, with one provision.
I air roast beans for 12 - 15 minutes, on average. True, I've done a slight
mod that makes this work well. But I've never understood the resignation
among some popper roasters to the "quick, brighter roast" thing. If it's
possible to do longer roasts, do so!
Here's the provision, though, and acknowledgment of the advice given below
-- unmodded poppers that reach first crack at 8 minutes might seem like
they're heading for a nice 14 minute roast, but they may be running too coo=
l
to make it to the desired roast level by then -- if at all!
I would encourage popper users to roast as much beans as possible, to find
the "sweet spot" for a roaster -- which I'd define as "as much beans as
possible, as much longer than typical for poppers as possible."
Other advice might be to avoid convoluted locutions like that!   ;-)
--
Scott
On 4/8/06, Brian Kamnetz  wrote:
<Snip>

46) From: Michael Dhabolt
I'm going to agree with Scott.
Prior to mods, I found that a healthy tilt to the popper (aproximately
20°) through the whole roast - not just the beginning was the key for
me.  Loading the popper with greens until I had just a bit of bean
movement.  Adding a tin can chimney allowed the popper to handle the
extra load without ejecting it out of the top.  A thermometer from SM
to give me a clue as to what I was actually doing.  The long extension
cord and then a variac followed to control heat and slow the roast to
what I wanted.
Of course you can follow this path all the way to PIDs and fan speed
control to allow whatever profile control you're prepared to commit to
(or should that be committed ;~}
Mike (just plain)

47) From: Maureen Azcoitia
On 4/8/06, Bill Morgan  wrote:
<Snip>
of Irish and
Basque names.  May I inquire...?)
Not many people pick up on that.  Actually, my name
has almost nothing to do with my ethnicity.  My first
name was one that my father liked.  My last named is
my married name.  Meanwhile, I am Puerto Rican.

48) From: Ed Needham
The tilt works really well with the bottom firing poppers, where the air 
blows straight up.  What it does is create a vertical rotation of the beans 
instead of blowing a hole in one spot and having the beans sit motionless.
I was Google searching for my earliest posts and found this one in 1997, 
about a year after I started posting to alt.coffee.  It tells of some of my 
adventures of tweaking the roasts in a Melitta Aromaroaster, including 
tilting it and adding a 'soup can' chimney.  There wasn't much better for 
homeroasters back then, and I thought this thing was better than the hot air 
poppers which I had not PID'ed or modified.
*****
      Date:  Fri, Oct 10 1997
"Ed Needham" wrote:
<Snip>
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"
ed at homeroaster dot com
(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************

49) From: Michael Dhabolt
Ed
<Snip>
I knew I needed to thank you for something.  It's been so long - I
'plumb' forgot ;^)
Mike (just plain)

50) From: Jerry Procopio
Maureen,
Hello and welcome!  I see that others, with more popper experience than 
I, have already responded to your post.  You'll find that support and 
good advice, here on this list, is endless.  Read, learn, expirament, 
enjoy.  When homeroasting, the range to get an acceptable roast is 
rather wide and you will find that, while every roast may not be 
perfect, it's difficult to completely ruin a roast.  The worst you ever 
roast will probably be better than Starbucks best.
Welcome to the adventure!
JavaJerry
RK Drum roasting in Chesapeake, VA
Maureen Azcoitia wrote:
<Snip>

51) From: Justin Marquez
<Snip>
Maureen -
As a brand new roaster person, you will have likely seen all the references
to weights of coffee in grams. In case you don't have a sensitive scale
laying around, a pretty good rule of thumb is that 1/8th cup measure of
green beans weighs about 20 grams and after roasting the same measure weigh=
s
about 10 grams (the beans expand and lose moisture in roasting).
A good place to start after roasting is that for each fluid ounce of coffee
you intend to make, you use 1 gram of roasted coffee.
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (Snyder, TX)http://www.justinandlinda.com

52) From: Becca Olson
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Please forgive for asking this as I am sure it has been asked a million times. 
I just bought an espresso set up and am looking to get into roasting for personal use. I have spent the last week reading every post that I could find on what type of roaster I should get.
I am really considering the rotisserie with modifications.But the only info I could find was fairly old so there were no conclusive this works great or not.
Does anyone use this method? Or can you point me towards a webpage that has info?
Again I am sorry if this subject has been exhausted.
Smiles
Becca Olson
thing2http://community.webshots.com/user/stormatseaquilting  Business">http://community.webshots.com/user/quiltkrayze  homehttp://community.webshots.com/user/stormatseaquilting  Business

53) From: Tara Kollas
I have a hottop and really like it - but do a google search for ron kyle and
you can find his site for the RKdrum set up.
On 6/19/06, Becca Olson  wrote:
<Snip>

54) From: Becca Olson
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
thank you!
Smiles
Becca Olson
thing2http://community.webshots.com/user/stormatseaquilting  Business">http://community.webshots.com/user/quiltkrayze  homehttp://community.webshots.com/user/stormatseaquilting  Business

55) From: miKe mcKoffee
First, Welcome to the List!
Are you talking about those electric rotisserie ovens? If yes sounds like
you've already discovered reports indicate that stock they don't produce
enough heat but with modifications adding additional heating they can be
used. If you're talking about a gas grill with RK Drum rotisserie setup a
number of people on the List are using them with excellent results. Between
the two a gas grill/RK Drum would be more roast flexible/controllable and
more durable.
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
Pacific Northwest Gathering IVhttp://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must">http://home.comcast.net/~mdmint/pnwgIV.htmURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
	From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Becca Olson
	Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 10:21 AM
	
	Please forgive for asking this as I am sure it has been asked a
million times. 
	 
	I just bought an espresso set up and am looking to get into roasting
for personal use. I have spent the last week reading every post that I could
find on what type of roaster I should get.
	 
	I am really considering the rotisserie with modifications.But the
only info I could find was fairly old so there were no conclusive this works
great or not.
	 
	Does anyone use this method? Or can you point me towards a webpage
that has info?
	 
	Again I am sorry if this subject has been exhausted.
	 
	Smiles
	Becca Olson
	thing2
http://community.webshots.com/user/quiltkrayze  home
http://community.webshots.com/user/stormatseaquilting  Business

56) From: Douglas H. Boutell
Becca,
You could also find out if there are any homeroasters in your area
and visit them when they are roasting .
Doug
miKe mcKoffee wrote:
<Snip>

57) From: Eddie Nguyen
Welcome Becca!
Being a newbie myself I can't help but share in your quest for
homeroasting knowledge.  The SM folks here have been very useful in
their experience and warm suggestions.
As for online knowledge, I found these two sites to be extremely useful:http://coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/homeroasthttp://bbs.stoneworks.com/rgbbs/
In the end, I chose to go with a "home roasting appliance" (Hot top).
Although I would lose the capacity and "controlability" of
do-it-yourself home roasters (ie RK Drum), my main concern was "ease
of use": easy to setup, easy to clean, easy to store, easy to get
started.
With life being so hectic for me (got married last year, moved into a
"fixer upper" home in April, starting a new role at work) I was
concerned that home roasting would become less and less of a priority
for me.  The Hot top (or any other appliance) makes the experience so
easy that amidst having to juggle many of life's priorities, I can
dash out to the garage and make a couple roasting batches and dash
back to whatever I need to do.
My home coffee roasting goal is to develop "what I like and what I
don't like" over the next year.  As my roasting skills slowly develop
I will most definitely take on the DIY approach.
I kind of equate this process to learning to drive a car.  You could
learn to drive an automatic to start with because its convenient:
it'll get you from point A to point B just like a manual car.  However
over time you might yearn for more control.  At that time you'll have
the desire and perhaps more time on your hands to learn to drive a
manual car.
Cheers.
Eddie Nguyen.
On 6/19/06, Tara Kollas  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers.
Eddie H. Nguyen

58) From: jim gundlach
--Apple-Mail-3-645132275
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset-ASCII;
	delsp=yes;
	format=flowed
Becca,
      There are several methods of roasting some are better than  
others but most are just different and suit different life styles and  
tastes.  Some people are handy at modifying electrical and mechanical  
devices and they seem to get along with hot air poppers and the stir  
crazy-turbo oven combination quite well.  Others seem to like what I  
call the counter top gadgets.  I learned more from roasting over wood  
and gas fires in a wok than from all the other roasting methods I  
have tried put together.  And, it is still one of my preferred  
methods of roasting.  I believe Ron Kyle's drums in a gas fired back  
yard BBQ is probably the roasting method most compatible with  
suburban life style and it is relatively inexpensive if you already  
have the grill.  It will last forever.
     Jim Gundlach
On Jun 19, 2006, at 12:20 PM, Becca Olson wrote:
<Snip>
--Apple-Mail-3-645132275
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charsetO-8859-1
Becca,     There are =
several methods of roasting some are better than others but most are =
just different and suit different life styles and tastes.  Some people =
are handy at modifying electrical and mechanical devices and they seem =
to get along with hot air poppers and the stir crazy-turbo oven =
combination quite well.  Others seem to like what I call the counter =
top gadgets.  I learned more from roasting over wood and gas fires in =
a wok than from all the other roasting methods I have tried put =
together.  And, it is still one of my preferred methods of roasting.  =
I believe Ron Kyle's drums in a gas fired back yard BBQ is probably the =
roasting method most compatible with suburban life style and it is =
relatively inexpensive if you already have the grill.  It will last =
forever.    Jim Gundlach
On Jun 19, 2006, =
at 12:20 PM, Becca Olson wrote:
Please forgive for = asking this as I am sure it has been asked a million = times.    Smiles
Becca Olson

= --Apple-Mail-3-645132275--

59) From: Becca Olson
I found one that I will be checking out. But they arent using anything 
modified or home built. Smile.My hubby doesnt understand why a counter top 
unit isnt as exciting to me.He is into the ease of that.I guess I have 
always been more difficult.Grin.
I will keep my ears open though as I would love to see some up close.The 
barbcue ones really do interest me but I dont want to take the plunge until 
I have an idea of what I am doing.
I really appreciate all the help I have been given.So many more websites to 
check out.
Smiles
Becca Olson
thing2http://community.webshots.com/user/stormatseaquilting  Business">http://community.webshots.com/user/quiltkrayze  homehttp://community.webshots.com/user/stormatseaquilting  Business

60) From: Barry Luterman
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
If you are looking for an appliance the Hottop, in my opinion, is the =
best way to go.Most of us started cheap with pop corn poppers and on to =
more and more expensive roasters as the bug bit us. Upgrade fever is a =
natural part of home roasting. If you can afford it and don't want to:
1. Fire up your gas grill year round
2. Wind up with a closet filled with equipment you have outgrown.
3. It is within your budget.
Buy a Hottop.

61) From: Zara Haimo
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Becca,
I may have missed it, but I don't think anyone yet has suggested you =
start with a heat gun and dog bowl.  In some ways, I think this is an =
ideal way to get started because the costs are so low (my kit cost me =
about $35 including a storage box) and you can see, smell, and hear =
every step of the process, so you really learn about roasting.  The only =
down sides are smoke and mess (chaff flies everywhere, but I roast =
outside so it doesn't matter), weather if you live somewhere where you =
can't roast outside much of the year, and effort since you have to sit =
there stirring and holding the heat gun for the 10-15 minutes it takes =
to do a batch.
Once you learn to roast with the HGDB, you can always move on and up to =
HotTops and other roasting appliances.  I rarely use my HGDB now because =
I have a HotTop, but the roasting experience and knowledge I gained =
while I used that setup really helped me become a better roaster.
Zara

62) From: Douglas H. Boutell
Becca Olson wrote:
<Snip>
Becca,
The RK Drum roasting is very forgiving and I would recommend  that this 
would be an
easy way to start roasting. I switched over to the RK Drum after 5 years 
with  PID popcorn
roaster and was impressed with the ease and the excellent roast flavors. 
The drum roasting
allows me use most  Kenya  coffees as single origin  espresso shots.
Doug
<Snip>

63) From: Knit Kim
Hi Becca, 
I'm also a new roaster, just started a little over a month ago and have
been lurking on the list.
I'm starting with a Fresh Roast Plus, but picked up a $2 thrift store
popper that I may modify slightly.  I also want to tinker around with
things and will probably upgrade to a SC/CO.  My husband wants to help
me with the modifications, but I really would rather do it myself. 
However, I will say, I'm glad I'm starting with something small.  I
like the idea with the FR that I can hear the cracks and I'm learning
about the roasting process on a small scale.  If I ruin a roast, I've
only lost 65 gms of green beans.  Plus, since I'm so new to levels of
roast, out of 1 pound I can vary the different batches 7 times and
learn about different regional coffees on a smaller scale.  I'm buying
1-3 lbs of each bean to see if I like them.  I thought I knew what I
liked before I started roasting, but I've been really surprised, due to
the variety that is available green.
Now that I am getting more comfortable, I will not be scared to upgrade
to a larger capacity machine and feel like I'll ruin a roast.  I
definitely want something bigger, but I think I will continue to use my
FR as a sample roaster, and even do day to day roasts in it.  Then
again, I only drink 1 largish cup of coffee a day, and my husband only
drinks 1-2 cups a week, so the limited batch size is fine for us.  I
really want a larger set up to roast for friends and family, which I
really can not do with the fresh roast.
Just another opinion!
:)
Patty
--- Becca Olson  wrote:
<Snip>
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

64) From: Karl
On 6/19/06, Zara Haimo  wrote:
<Snip>
Yes, this is a great way to go if you can roast outside and don't drink a
lot of coffee.  You don't *need* to use a dog bowl, a stainless steel mixing
bowl will work just as well.
I do get a little bit of a buzz from the caffeine while roasting, however.
Like right now... :)
Karl

65) From: Becca Olson
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
My hubby is really going to think I am nuts but this is a method I will be trying. I think it will be a good learning experience.
I wont be able to do it in the winter however as I dont enjoy going outside in zero weather. It supposed to be summer right now though (we have yet to see 70 outside) so as soon as my green beans get here i will try it.
Smiles
Becca Olson
thing2http://community.webshots.com/user/stormatseaquilting  Business">http://community.webshots.com/user/quiltkrayze  homehttp://community.webshots.com/user/stormatseaquilting  Business

66) From: Vicki Smith
Hi Becca,
I'm new too, and I live in Central Alberta, so outdoor roasting isn't 
possible for me about six months a year. My choice was an iRoast-2, 
mainly because of the easy venting.
I'm having a good time with it.
Vicki
Becca Olson wrote:
<Snip>
!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!**!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*
                 Taming Coffee: The Weblog
                 http://taming.motime.com

67) From: Terry Stockdale
Becca,
Check out my RK Drum pages at http://www.terrystockdale.com/rkdrum. They are about my experiences, 
setup and mods -- love the RK Drum!
Terry
--
Terry Stockdale -- Baton Rouge, LA
My Coffee Pages:http://www.terrystockdale.com/hottopMy RK Drum pages: http://www.terrystockdale.com/rkdrumTerry's Computer Tips: http://www.terryscomputertips.comAt 04:21 PM 6/19/2006, you wrote:">http://www.terrystockdale.com/coffeeMy Hottop pages:http://www.terrystockdale.com/hottopMy RK Drum pages: http://www.terrystockdale.com/rkdrumTerry's Computer Tips: http://www.terryscomputertips.comAt 04:21 PM 6/19/2006, you wrote:
<Snip>

68) From: Vicki Smith
Hi Becca,
You asked about shipping costs.
I have SM ship to me USPS insured, and usually buy 10 lbs of beans at a 
time. Shipping works out to about $2/pound. I have no idea how the 
postal rates to Alberta compare to rates to Alaska. I can (and do) buy 
greens closer to home, about a two hour drive from here. I drive up 
rather than pay the $1.70 or so a pound for shipping that short distance.
We go through about 5 pounds of greens a month, for our own use. 
Fortunately, the extra $10 month or so in shipping is OK for us at the 
moment.
Vicki

69) From: Becca Olson
Wow thats not bad at all. Thats also great you have someone somewhat local 
to buy from.
I may run into someone at some point but havent yet. Shipping from SM was 
definitely the best of the bunch but still high. For a 10 pound bag the 
shipping was almost 2$ a pound.
Anyways thanks for the help. I am overwhelmed at how helpful everyone has 
been.
Smiles
Becca Olson
thing2http://community.webshots.com/user/stormatseaquilting  Business">http://community.webshots.com/user/quiltkrayze  homehttp://community.webshots.com/user/stormatseaquilting  Business

70) From: Vicki Smith
Becca, well, that is the same amount we pay for shipping to Alberta, 
then. Our sorta local guy charges more than SM does for comparable 
beans, so SM costs us about the same, if we drive the two hours rather 
than have him ship it to us. If he ships to us, SM is waaaay less money.
We do have a local roaster, who will sell beans, but they are just 
so-so, and he charges $9 a pound or so for them.
Frankly, even if SM was a bit more, buying from someone that understands 
home roasters, is so committed to getting the best for us, and helping 
us every inch of the way is worth paying for.
vicki
Becca Olson wrote:
<Snip>

71) From: Saumit Shah
I agree. Even with shipping costs, SM beans are probably the best deal available; considering that you are getting best of the beans after extensive cupping. As many people have indicated, you can close you eyes and order any beans from SM and you cannot go wrong. 
   
  When I began roating six month ago, I went to a local Whole foods (North Dallas area) because their web site claimed that they sell green beans. But to my surprise they said that they are selling the green beans at the same price as the roasted ones. That is such nonsense. 
   
  I used to buy roasted beans from this location occassionally, because they have a roaster on location. But the quality was very inconsistent. 
   
  Since I am new to roasting, I can offer my limited experience which may be useful to you. I decided to start with a stovetop popcorn maker. Only the first batch was bit overroasted, as I have a ceramic cooktop and no thermometer. Then I purchased the cheapest thermometer from SM which gives you a ballpark idea of temperature range. SInce then, most of my roast have been fairly good, at least better than any coffee I have every had. I have also stopped adding sugar/cream.
   
  One problem with electric cooktop is that temperature reduction is not instantaneous, so temperature control is bit tricky. 
   
  Now I have just purchased a Fresh Roast plus. Since I consume only one cup (two on weekends/holidays), it thought that it would be ideal. So far, I have roasted 4-5 batches, and I really like the ease of use and control. If I need to roast a larger amount, I can always use whirly pop. Also, if a batch is messed up, only a small amount is wasted. Although, with Tom's instructions, it is really hard to mess up a roast. 
  
-Saumit
  
Vicki Smith  wrote:
  Becca, well, that is the same amount we pay for shipping to Alberta, 
then. Our sorta local guy charges more than SM does for comparable 
beans, so SM costs us about the same, if we drive the two hours rather 
than have him ship it to us. If he ships to us, SM is waaaay less money.
We do have a local roaster, who will sell beans, but they are just 
so-so, and he charges $9 a pound or so for them.
Frankly, even if SM was a bit more, buying from someone that understands 
home roasters, is so committed to getting the best for us, and helping 
us every inch of the way is worth paying for.
vicki
Becca Olson wrote:
<Snip>---------------------------------
Ring'em or ping'em. Make  PC-to-phone calls as low as 1¢/min with Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.

72) From:
Becca,
I'll put in another plug for the RK, but with a different perspective.
I've been really happy with mine, but unless you've got a good local
mentor, I wouldn't recommend starting out with it. As others have
recommended, the heat gun / dog bowl method has very low initial cost,
and most important, the whole process is right there under your eyes,
ears and nose.  The RK offers great (though entirely manual) roast
control, but if you don't already know the roast sequence it's kind of
intimidating not to be able to see the beans. Once you're comfortable
with the roast process and learn how to tweak that process to get coffee
you really like, the RK offers great value and capacity if you need it.
Using a FreshRoast taught me a lot about roasting, including that 2.5 oz
(1 batch) of coffee doesn't go very far.  Since getting the RK, I
haven't used it once.
Bruce

73) From: Brian D. Frost
I have been lurking for the past week or two and am looking for a little
advice...
I bought the Starbucks branded Saeco and the Starbucks branded burr grinder
(which I modded to get a finer grind). I have been enjoying a Hair Bender
for a while** and would love to try to make something like it at home. I am
a little tight on the cash so I bought a poppery II (1500) from ebay hoping
to get near the Hair Bender. I know that everyone will probably laugh but is
it even possible to get near that quality? With a large family I need to
watch cost so I bought the poppery to just try things out.
If I have a chance at decent espresso with the poppery II then what kind of
bean should I try?
Any good (or bad) words would be appreciated...
thank you all for what I have learned already
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74) From: Brett Mason
Go with Sweet Maria's French Roast Blend - will be easier to get to
the "Hair Bender" black that you know...
BUT, it's going to be hard, because you are using better beans than
Hairbender uses....  Specialty coffee is like that...
Go for it, spend a few days, then write back on what you find...
Brett
On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 12:32 AM, Brian D. Frost  wrote:
<Snip>
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75) From: miKe mcKoffee
First welcome to the List, enjoy the Journey.
When you say "a Hair Bender", are you referring to Stumptown Hair Bender? If
yes you'll not be able to achieve anything like it with a single varietal
since it's a 5 bean espresso blend. Can a stock popper roasting a decent
pre-roast blend achieve results on par with Stumptown Hair Bender? IMO not
really. A modified popper which allows profile control via heater and fan
control can do a very good job once you learn. It's easy to turn beans
brown, it takes a lifetime to make them sing their finest songs! 
I would suggest you start with a fairly forgiving pre-roast blend like Tom's
Monkey Blend. 
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffeehttp://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must">http://www.mcKonaKoffee.comURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/
<Snip>
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76) From: Brian D. Frost
can anyone shoot me links for modding the popperyII for heater and fan
controls?
On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 12:04 AM, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>
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77) From: miKe mcKoffee
BEEP! Ya blew it Brett, 20 don't know what I'm talkin' about demerits. Hair
Bender is not roasted dark and oily and Stumptown most certainly uses top
Specialty Coffees. Remember Tom has more than once co-purchased prime lots
with Dwayne... 
<Snip>
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78) From: miKe mcKoffee
http://members.cox.net/felixdial/popper.mods.shtml<Snip>">http://www.homeroaster.com/geekmod.htmlhttp://members.shaw.ca/espressomio/COFFEEMENU.HTMLhttp://members.cox.net/felixdial/popper.mods.shtml<Snip>
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79) From: Michael Dhabolt
Brian,
If by (1500) you mean 1500 watts,
<Snip>
Then you have an Original Poppery (P1).  The Poppery II is either 1200
or 1250 watts.  Modifying the P1 and the P II are entirely different
procedures.  The second picture in this thread:http://homeroasters.org/php/forum/viewthread.php?forum_id2&thread_id'0shows the two machines alongside each other.
And ... yes you can!
miKes recommendation of starting with Monkey is a good one.  Well
roasted and pulled, Monkey stands up well against HairBender.  A bit
different, and an exceptional blend.
Mike (just plain)
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80) From: Dean De Crisce
You will get better espresso results if you either get the nonpressurized saeco portafilter...or take the spring mechanism out of your portafilter and cut the bottom off. You can get that portafilter...even a bottomless one...at espressoparts
Dean De Crisce
Sent from a Treo.

81) From: Brian D. Frost
sorry-- it is an original poppery -- 1500 watts. I am eagerly awaiting its
arrival with soldering iron in hand.
On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 12:31 AM, Michael Dhabolt 
wrote:
<Snip>
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82) From: Brian D. Frost
my wife sprung for the non-pressurized portafilter for my birthday last
October. I love it but sadly it really brings out the stale in my beans.
That is why I am stepping into the home roast -- I tend to have coffee go
stale before I drink it as I am the only coffee drinker in the home.
Hopefully I can get to where I can produce something decent and give it to
friends so that they can experience good coffee -- I cant just give away the
stumptown or victrolla :)
On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 12:44 AM, Dean De Crisce 
wrote:
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83) From: Brian D. Frost
sprung == sprang
On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 1:05 AM, Brian D. Frost  wrote:
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84) From: Michael Dhabolt
Brian,
Congrats!  You've got a workhorse with unlimited potential.
BTW - I do several blends regularly with a modified P1 that I
personally think blows 'Hairbender' out of the water (especially as
inconsistent as it has been recently).
Mike (just plain)
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85) From: Brian D. Frost
can you give some details on what you did mod-wise to your P1, which bean
you prefer, and the timing/temperatures you roast with?
I am very excited to see that you are enjoying your poppery
On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 1:07 AM, Michael Dhabolt 
wrote:
<Snip>
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86) From: Michael Dhabolt
Brian,
follow the link I gave previously in this thread.  It pretty well spells it out.
Mike (just plain)
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87) From: Brian D. Frost
 Mike, I didnt make the connection that you were the author of that article.
It is masterful -- thank you so much for your contribution to the community.
On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 3:36 AM, Michael Dhabolt 
wrote:
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88) From: Brett Mason
Hey - thanks for pointing that out - But correct - didn't know or care
what hairbender was.  Sounds like it's not from Iowa...  Went with
whatever the title seemed to describe...
On the other hand, my real intent was to get him to roast his own and
get on with it - so I am wiping my 20 demerits away and stealing some
CSA points too, because that's what comes with curmudgeonry...
Brett
On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 1:10 AM, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>
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89) From: Coffee
Sprung is a perfectly cromulent word.
-Peter
On Mar 16, 2008, at 11:06 PM, Brian D. Frost wrote:
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90) From: Rich
I believe Community Coffee is a Robusta bean roasted to FC++.  Buy some 
SM Robusta and give it a shot.  Stop the Behmore right before the start 
of 2nd, use the time in the manual to estimate the start of 2nd.
And, yes Brett, I have consumed quite a bit of Community coffee.
Brett Mason wrote:
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91) From: Bill
a noble popper embiggens the smallest bean!bill
On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 7:28 AM, Coffee  wrote:
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92) From: Sandy Andina
Get SM's Puro Scuro or French Roast blend, roast to Vienna or light  
French, respectively, and brew in a press or drip with a scoop of SM's  
roasted chicory. Ideally, steam up some milk into a microfoam  
consistency till it's nice and sweet (w/o needing sugar), or add a  
little sugar before steaming.  Pour the coffee with one hand,  
simultaneously pouring the microfoam with the other.  Hope you have  
some beignets handy (and don't sneeze or wear black).
On Mar 17, 2008, at 8:28 AM, Rich wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy Andina
www.myspace.com/sandyandina
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93) From: Gary Foster
And if you want to try the SM's FR blend, I think I managed to nail the 
Behmore roast profile down for it.  Let me know if you want to try it :)
I plan on roasting some more of it when my SM's shipment gets here this 
week, mixing it with chicory and sending it to my mom so I can break her 
of that horrible canned cafe du monde ground coffee habit she picked up 
in Nawlins...
-- Gary F.
Sandy Andina wrote:
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94) From: Sean Cary
Mike makes a great roaster - he gave me one when I got back from Iraq in
'06...still use it every week.  If you follow his instructions, you will
have a great roaster.
Sean
On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 7:56 AM, Brian D. Frost  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Sean M. Cary
Major USMC
Tempus Fugit, Memento Mori
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95) From: Brian D. Frost
I did my first roast tonight and LOVED it. After letting it sit for 2 hours
I couldnt stand it any longer so I made a few espressos -- it was awesome!!!
Really tasty espresso blend.
I added removed the fin from the internal chamber and added a tin can
chimney. I also separated the fan circuit from the switch. The roast only
took 6ish minutes but looked and smelled good (I will post pics later). I
found that I could only get ~100g of beans to circulate. How much should the
beans be moving in the bottom of the P1? I cant imagine getting 250g of
beans to move like the 80-100 do... Am I expecting the wrong thing to occur?
Or do I need to figure out how to boost the fan?
My themometer should be here by the weekend so I look forward to measuring
the roast. From what I read, it is perfectly acceptable to flip the switch
to the heater off and on to keep the temp where I am it?
ty all
Brian
On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 6:48 PM, Sean Cary  wrote:
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96) From: Paul Helbert
Tilt the popper about thirty degrees and you should easily get 150g moving
from the getgo. Sometimes a bit of stirring, until beans lighten, will be
needed. The tilt will slow down the roast. Six minutes to first crack is a
mite faster than I'd like.
-- 
Paul Helbert
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97) From: Brett Mason
I find the same as Paul.  I use the Poppery a lot during the colder
months.  162g is about my limit.  Once the beans dry out some, they'll
start to percolate on their own.  Stir with a wooden spoon a little
while they get going.  Or start with 140g and add some beans when they
start to move a lot...  It's a weight/mass/air-flow thing....
Brett
On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 1:27 AM, Paul Helbert  wrote:
<Snip>
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98) From: Paul Helbert
Hey, what's in your cup this morning, Brett? I was about to recommend
reinstatement of your coveted curmudgeon status based on your melange post,
but agreeing with me nixed that!
On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 8:51 AM, Brett Mason  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Paul Helbert
Support bacteria. They're the only culture some people have.
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99) From: Brett Mason
Have not yet returned to my terse crusty self - curmudgeonry demands
its own timeframe....
Sulawesi Toarco, FC+, precision temp drip-brewed in my Melitta
Clarity.  What a nice rich cup with lingering aftertaste.  This is
just good coffee...
I work 3 minutes from home, and just switched offices to a new
hallway, so all my goodies are still in boxes awaiting a credenza...
We also have a coffee bar in another hallway, but they aren't skilled
baristas and don't understand a tamp, much less temperature or grind.
I go for their light roasted Guatemala when I need a quick cup - it's
the least bad they carry....  Nice pastries though...
Popper roasting perplexes me - it is so darned easy, but too fast to
really enhance the coffee.  I have a soup can chimney on mine, but
have yet to split wire the machine with separate fan & heat
switches....  Soon I think!
Brett
On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 8:12 AM, Paul Helbert  wrote:
<Snip>
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100) From: Paul Helbert
If you have the 1500 Watt original Poppery, you will find that the
modification to separate heater from fan takes only a few minutes and does
not require soldering. A nut driver or small socket and Phillips screwdriver
are all the tools you will need.
On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 9:19 AM, Brett Mason  wrote:
<Snip>
Paul Helbert
Try this for laughs:http://haroldandkumar.varitalk.com/Homeroast mailing list
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101) From: Paul Helbert
Bad signature URL. Sorry.
-- 
Paul Helbert
Try this for laughs:http://haroldandkumar.varitalk.com/. Whups, that times
out, Try this:http://haroldandkumar.com/and then navigate to send phone
message.
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