HomeRoast Digest

Topic: O.T. Bread Machines (15 msgs / 399 lines)
1) From: DEchelbarg
Thought I'd give this a try to a discerning group of consumers.  My bread 
machine of many years is giving up the ghost and I'm in the market.  Any advice?  
How about the Zojirushi? 
Dave E

2) From: Dennis Parham
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lol i just had my DAK Turbo VI digital bread machine out thinking of a =
way to roast coffee in it!! lol Im afraid the temp cannot get high 
enough like it is... but it has a GREAT chamber in it! not sure of 
other specs....need to get out the ole tools! lol
Dennis Parham
On Sep 21, 2004, at 9:53 PM, DEchelbarg wrote:
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lol i just had my DAK Turbo VI digital bread machine out thinking of a
way to roast coffee in it!! lol Im afraid the temp cannot get high
enough like it is... but it has a GREAT chamber in it! not sure of
other specs....need to get out the ole tools! lol
Dennis Parham 
On Sep 21, 2004, at 9:53 PM, DEchelbarg wrote:
ArialThought I'd
give this a try to a discerning group of consumers.  My bread machine
of many years is giving up the ghost and I'm in the market.  Any
advice?  How about the Zojirushi? 
ArialDave =

3) From: miKe mcKoffee
Funny, we've had a DAK Turbo IV bread maker for 15 or so years and it's
still working fine. (not VI but IV, didn't know DAK released a VI) That post
had me thinking the same thing, how to add a fan or stirring vanes... That
and why can't/won't home roaster manufacturers make a unit as reliable and
durable as that bread machine. Even fell off the counter once while kneading
the dough some dozen or so years ago, just kept on trying to knead the dough
lying on the kitchen floor with the lid half open and the dough trying to
escape! (Actually wasn't a real counter but a bookshelf I was using in the
kitchen before remodeling and adding cabinets and more counter space, I
learned that the kneading caused it to wobble too much to use it on the
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer etc.http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htm

4) From: Dennis Parham
maybe mine is a IV   not a 6  but it does have some serious parts hu?  
circuitry for digital control, clock even! lol  timer... temp 
adjustment ( if hot enough)  robustly built...  the needer would have 
NO trouble agitating the beans!  heheheI bet....a GG top might site 
right on top! lol  but the bread machine might be a more expensive 
indevor..... for ones who do not have them... hmmm...
Dennis Parham
On Sep 21, 2004, at 10:10 PM, miKe mcKoffee wrote:

5) From: Jim and Tina Wheeler
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Ours have worked quite well.
Jim in Skull Valley

6) From: Peter Schmidt
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  please consider the PANASONIC SD-YD250.   it's fool-proof.  it =
features a yeast dispenser on top that allows the other ingredients to =
be added at room temperature.  then after the mix has rested and been =
warmed, the yeast is added automatically, and voila......fool-proof.  i =
have a grain mill too, that makes a significant improvement over =
store-bought flour.  Amazon has this bread machine for under $100 =
peter schmidt

7) From: Edward Spiegel
At 10:53 PM -0400 9/21/04, DEchelbarg wrote:
I've had a Zoji for 10 years and love it and haven't had any regrets or troubles with it.

8) From: Robert Cantor
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Hitachi.  I've even gotten good results when I forgot to add yeast.  =
Have to work pretty hard and slice it very thin, then toast it, but it =
was good!  Over 13 years on my first one.
Bob C.

9) From: Angelo
Expensive? Not if you do thrift shops..You can trip over them and all at 

10) From: Prabhakar Ragde
My first Zoji had the bread pan seize up, and I had problems with the
Teflon peeling off the paddle. Also had to replace the motor once
which fortunately was not difficult. But it was still better than the
Breadman I had for a while (pan also froze up on that). I'm on a
second Zoji, the BBCC-V20, with a horizontal two-paddle pan instead of
a vertical one-paddle pan. It has worked well for about a year so
far. (They're not distributed or repaired in Canada; I brought mine
across the border, and it's a pain when they seize up.) 
Since you're replacing one, you know that these machines don't make
anything better than glorified sandwich bread. I tried making
sourdoughs in mine, and they turned out as slightly sour sandwich
bread (that, or doorstops). Since I don't have the time to make breads
by hand any more, I use the Zoji for weekday lunch bread, and once a
week I drive down to a bakery which makes pane pugliese in a
wood-fired oven.
Thank goodness coffee roasters aren't as limited an appliance. --PR

11) From: Arien Malec
Snobbish reply: Your hands and an oven :-)

12) From: Tom Ulmer

13) From: Simpson
Prabhakar it is interesting that you say this as the bread machine is the
most commonly used example of an appliance that a home roaster appliance
should seek to emulate... "Set it and forget it!" seems to be the mantra.
But you are right... the bread machine produces a nasty loaf, lowest common
denominator at best. We want more from our roasting methods. Ironically the
commercially made home roasters seem to suffer from enormous limitations
and very poor quality control and have for a long time. I can't think of a
currently manufactured machine that inspires much confidence with the
possible exception of the Hottop. Arguably the hot air popper is the most
durable and controllable 'appliance roaster' with a BBQ grill matching or
exceeding its durability but not the ease of use. Funny that the best roast
methods (BBQ, whirlypop, turbo crazy, HGDB and air popper to name a few)
are the ones that are LEAST amenable to 'set it and forget it' operation. I
think our roasting is as good as it is because we are forced by the
inadequacies of our equipment to compensate through artistry and passion.
So I'm a little torn. On the one hand it might be nice to see a fully
automated roaster functionally equivalent to a bread machine, but OTOH I
bet it would produce a lousy roast just like bread machines produce lousy
bread. The lack of a 'dumbed down' convenience roaster virtually ensures
that home coffee roasting will remain a niche endeavor, but it also means
the quality of our coffee will more closely approach artisanal quality. I
think that isn't such a bad thing ...
 *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
On 9/22/2004 at 3:06 PM Prabhakar Ragde wrote about bread machines: 
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, you'll
be a mile from them, and you'll have their shoes. (Jack Handey, Deep

14) From: Ed Needham
There are just too many variables in roasting small batches to fully 
automate the process to achieve the absolute best results.  I'd surely 
demand it if I were roasting commercially and in large volumes, where the 
perfect roast could be duplicated over and over again for bag after bag. 
With a 3 ounce roaster, or even a 5 pound roaster, once you've dialed in the 
perfect profile, it's the end of the stash, and you start over again with 
the next lot.
Using our eyes, ears and nose to 'know' when to manually change the 
heat/fan/timing etc. is part of the fun of roasting for me.  A 'set it and 
forget it' roaster is no more fun than letting someone else roast your 
Ed Needham
"to absurdity and beyond!"
ed at homeroaster dot com

15) From: Prabhakar Ragde
Ted wrote:
I think the analogy (home roaster ~ bread machine) is a good one. The
problem is that there isn't one "we"; there are several, even on this
list. It's interesting for me to try blending and single-varietal
espresso now and again, but what I really want is a small selection of
very good to excellent reliable mixes for shots. I don't want to chase
ISH or Kopi Luwak. 
The bread machine may produce a "nasty loaf", but it is better than
store-bought "squeesh bread", and for most bread machine owners, that
is a considerable step up. A reliable, easy-to-use home roaster may
not satisfy many on this list, but it will take lots of people past
Folger's... and that, in turn may get some people climbing the ladder
and making a market for tools from which we can benefit. Going back to
the bread example, we've always had "hands and the oven", which may be
the equivalent of poppers; but now I can buy an insert for the oven,
like a 3-D pizza stone, to get me closer to that wood-fired commercial
oven without spending a fortune. I'm willing to bet that the success
of the bread machine had something to do with that. I think that a
tool can be built that would facilitate home roasting for "us",
something like an instrumented popper/BBQ grill... but, right now, the
market is pretty a subset of this list plus alt.coffee.
Except that we're still fighting our tools. Maybe you're right, and
that does make our efforts better. But I don't believe that
woodworkers lose anything by ditching blunt chisels in favour of nice
tools from the Lee Valley catalog. They still have to be able to wield
them properly, and that is the effort that won't be replaced by a
machine. --PR

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