HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Affordable Burr Grinder Recommendation (39 msgs / 1048 lines)
1) From: Oaklandguy
Everyone is absolutely right about a good grinder making a big =
difference in
making coffee.
But, finding a grinder has been a grind all its own.  My considerations
were:  it had to be electric (too lazy to manually grind with a Zass at =
5 in
the aye em), it had to be affordable, it had to fit into limited
counterspace, and it had to work well.
My recommendation at $35 (sale price) is the Cuisinart DBM8, with the =
clear,
conical hopper.  It has steel plate burrs, the grind is very adjustable =
(not
infinite, but closer than others I tried), and the grind is consistent.  =
The
bean hopper works well, holds 8 oz. of beans, and the beans feed evenly. =
 It
grinds quickly enough that the ground coffee doesn't get warm and =
there's no
static problem that I've noticed.  
The flavor of the coffee is much better compared to my five-year-old $20
DeLonghi burr grinder and the Krups burr grinder (more about that =
below).
I've used it to grind for both drip brew and moka pot.  Coffee by both
methods has noticeably improved with a lot less sediment/dust in the
finished coffee.
I would not recommend (in fact would run screaming from) the Krups GVX2 =
at
$59.  I tried this out first because of a gift certificate.  The first =
two
didn't even work.  Two others in the store didn't work.  The third one =
in
the store finally did work and I got it.  Persistent but not too bright, =
eh?
:)
The Krups pretty much gave the same grind regardless of setting and it =
made
a lot of dust.  The bean hopper seems poorly designed.  The beans =
wouldn't
continually feed without occasionally shaking it.  The old DeLonghi =
actually
did a better job of grinding than the new Krups, and with less dust.  =
And,
most worrisome, the front of the Krups would get and stay warm even when =
not
being used.  And, yes, I'm too lazy to keep plugging in and unplugging =
an
appliance that doesn't really need to be unplugged. Waffle irons - yes;
grinders - no.  :)
So, for now, the madness is satisfied.  Hopefully, in a couple of years,
Rocky or a Macap can be added.  For now, the Cuisinart should work very =
well
for my needs.
Brent
Hoping to be roasting in an SC/TO tomorrow!
(for drip and moka pot brews)
Don't forget to vote

2) From: Gene Smith
<Snip>
And here is the website I think I'm least likely to buy it from:http://www.afterlife-mausoleum-cremation.com/a/B00018RRRK/Cuisinart_DBM8Gene Smith
who doesn't want to know, in Houston

3) From: miKe mcKoffee
ROFLOL! Interesting URL for selling a grinder! Indeed, just what do they
plan on you grinding?!
Great Halloween post Gene.
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc.http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htm

4) From: Oaklandguy
Uh, shouldn't the ads on this link be for the Death Row Coffee thread?  Just
wondering while ROFLMAO!  Thanks, Gene
Brent
Dying for a cup; but too afraid of probate
<Snip>
inart_DBM8
Gene Smith
who doesn't want to know, in Houston

5) From: Larry Dorman
I hear you there...  I bought a LaPavoni cheapo burr grinder. 
http://www.1-800-espresso.com/la-pavoni-pa-burr-grinder.html)It works pretty well with lots of adjustability on grind.  I'll have
to pay more attention to the heat... I'm not discriminating enough to
really care.  At any rate, it works reasonably well, but it does
produce a lot of dust.  On the other hand, all of the dust tends to
statically collect on the upper front right corner of the collector. 
If I don't tap it before opening, I can pretty easily scoop out the
dust - I don't, it's not worth my trouble, but it is possible.
Would I buy this one again?  I don't really know...  I don't have
enough experience with grinders yet for it to matter.
LarryD
On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 11:02:14 -0700, Oaklandguy  wrote:
<Snip>

6) From: Les
Brent,
As long as you grind for Moka Pot and Drip you might get away with
using this cheap grinder.  One good session of trying an espresso
grind and your burrs will be shot!  For that price there is no way the
carrier for the burrs can be aligned well enough or be strong enough
for grinding espresso.
Les
On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 11:02:14 -0700, Oaklandguy  wrote:
<Snip>

7) From: Pecan Jim Gundlach
Has anyone who has used a Rocky or Mazzer tried this grinder?  I would 
be concerned that the archives suggest this grinder is adequate if it 
has not been evaluated by someone who has experienced a full range of 
grinders.  Does anyone know of a place that sells it under satisfaction 
guaranteed or your money back?
     Jim Gundlach
On Oct 30, 2004, at 1:02 PM, Oaklandguy wrote:
<Snip>

8) From: Gene Smith
<Snip>
Wondering along similar lines after Googling this grinder.  I didn't find a 
single review of it that was not just advertising puff copied to a sales 
site.  The other thing that turned up in the process was an indication that 
Cuisinart is not the strongest player in the customer service dept.  The 
litany of complaints I inadvertently turned up was in reference to a 
blender, but several of the complainants ended up just throwing theirs away 
and buying something better.  There were several people who complained of 
waiting months for parts.
In this day and age of everything being carefully manufactured in 
Outlandishtan, part of the problem is that if a "manufacturer" doesn't 
accurately forsee (or doesn't bother to) the need for parts, you end up 
waiting however long it takes for the nominal maker of the product to decide 
there is a problem they need to address, followed by arrangements to get the 
Outlandishtanis to make the requisite parts, followed by shipping to the US 
and then redistribution to the customer with a broken whatsis.
As if all of the above weren't enough with which to deal, you may also have 
to deal with a fast-changing market that insures that by the time you 
discover you *have* a faulty whatsis, the fabulous Whatsis Mark II 
(Improved!) is awaiting distribution and the company has experienced a 
severe attenuation of interest in the troublesome Mark I.
Would that I had the proverbial dollar for every time some salesperson has, 
without the slightest trace of irony or inappropriateness, suggested that 
the cure for my difficulties is to just buy a new one from the same 
'manufacturer' that provided that faulty device I have already paid for that 
has not been used enough to properly be called used.
Gene Smith
riding the wild learning curve, in Houston

9) From: Les
Jim,
My reply should have had CAP button down on the "might."  I am getting
a little tired of this thread.  The old saying, "You get what you pay
for." applies to grinders like no other item.  I can get a fantastic
shot out of a cheap espresso machine.  First it is going to take a
real long learning curve and you are going to get a .75 - 1 ounce
shot.  So if you can live with those limitations a really good tasting
shot can be had!  However with a grinder the only cheap deal out there
is to find a good used machine!  Jeff found my doserless  Mazzer Major
for less that $40.00.  I got a nice Super Jolly for less than $100.00.
 I put 30.00 into it to get it back up to speed.  I passed my good
deal on to a list member.  My guess is that will a little detective
work there are a lot of good used deals out there. (I live in a town
of about 20,000 people)   What is so nice about the Mazzers and the
Rocky is that every part is available to do a repair if needed.  From
an economical point of view, a Solis Maestro is going to last 6 months
doing espresso if you are lucky.  So in a year and a half you could
have bought a Rocky and in two years you could have bought a Mazzer
Minni.  I doubt you would have to change burrs more often than once
every 5 years in a Rocky or Minni.  That would be your main upkeep.  
This cheap grinder thing is nothing more than penny wise and pound
foolish.
Les
On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 16:19:54 -0600, Pecan Jim Gundlach
 wrote:
<Snip>

10) From: Pecan Jim Gundlach
Les,
     My concern was that we know there will be more discussions on 
grinders in the future.  I would like to ask people to go to the 
archives and get the right information.   I don't think it works to 
leave the recommendation out there unchallenged.   However, I would 
prefer to know about the grinder before I evaluate it.  The person who 
evaluated this would probably be irritated if I said it is no good 
because it is cheap.  I do believe it, but I feel a need to say so from 
evidence beyond every cheap grinder I have tried is crap.   If I could 
pick one up at a store with a money back guarantee I could take it home 
grind some beans, perhaps even screen the grind and give a definitive 
answer.
       Jim
On Oct 31, 2004, at 5:40 PM, Les wrote:
<Snip>

11) From: Les
I agree with you Jim!  I would like the evidence too.  The point I was
trying to make in my last post and I didn't do a very good job of it
is the best cheap grinder out there is a good used proven machine like
a Rocky or any of the Mazzers.  I know there are other good commerical
machines out there too.  My thought is find a good grinder with a
proven track record and look for a good used one if you must or want
to go cheaper than new.
Les
On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 17:51:14 -0600, Pecan Jim Gundlach
 wrote:
<Snip>

12) From: John Blumel
On Oct 31, 2004, at 6:40pm, Les wrote:
<Snip>
Well, there's also the law of diminishing returns...
<Snip>
If you read the original post in this thread closely, you'll notice 
that the intended use is drip and moka pot.
<Snip>
Not everyone has the time to look around for 'deals' and many people 
have an aversion to the possible hassles related to buying used 
equipment.
<Snip>
For many people, "this cheap grinder thing" has more to do with how 
much cash they have available to spend AT THE MOMENT and how much they 
are willing to invest in what may be a new hobby on which they may have 
already spent a considerable sum. For people with plenty of money or 
those who can't resist the urge to upgrade, buying an expensive grinder 
is probably the way to go. For those on limited budgets or who are just 
getting started, there is absolutely nothing wrong with trying to find 
an inexpensive grinder for non-espresso purposes.
It's simply ridiculous to insist that you can't make good coffee using 
homeroast with a relatively inexpensive grinder.
John Blumel

13) From: R.N.Kyle
Let the battle begin, it never fails with a thread like this to get a bit
carried away. and of course I must add to the thread.  DO NOT waist your
money on a cheap burr grinder, it is cheap because it is built cheap. Save
your money untill you can get a good grinder that is proven in the field.
the cheapest good grinder is Zass hand grinder that cost under $100. I would
use a blade grinder untill I could afford a good grinder. If I had the money
I have spent on cheap stuff I could buy 2 or 3 Rocky's.
I ended up with a Mazzer Mini, and don't expect to buy another grinder.
But to each his own and if you must expirement so be it, Many of us has done
so and after all this list is used to communicate what works and what won't.
I wish I would have listened to those who went before me, but I'm a hard
head and it cost me more then I needed to spend.
Cheers
RK

14) From: Bob Baker
Ya get what you pay for,
and a used mazzer will do you more than good
and even if the burrs are shot it will outperform
most of the other stuff out there. Save up another
$50-60 bucks for new burrs---and Bam!
you have got the best!!!
Bob
<Snip>

15) From: Gene Smith
<Snip>
Let me say that I'm a believer, and intend to acquire a Rocky or Mazzer or 
equivalent as soon as possible.  But sometimes it does bother me that John's 
well worded counter-argument has to be made so often.
There is an unfortunate 'let them eat cake' edge to many arguments about 
quality of equipment and brewing methods on this list.  This is at its worst 
in the grinder grumpiness posts.  Evidence from being on the list awhile 
suggests that it is unintentional on the part of some very thoughtful, kind 
and generous folks.
It is worth remembering that some folks are forced to tighten their 
budgetary belt between gasoline and food these days.  It's also worth 
remembering that, as John pointed out, time can be severely budgeted as 
well.  Assuming that those sorts of restraints don't apply to anyone with 
the money for a computer and the time to at least occasionally participate 
in this list is unwarranted, I think.
Gene Smith
riding the wild learning curve, in Houston

16) From: miKe mcKoffee
What could be useful is compiling the pertinent past discussions and putting
them up on a URL. Then as the same question continues to come up, which it
always does and always will, simple answer replying with URL. Of course,
this type thing already exists on CoffeeGeek as consumer reviews. Then
again, maybe someone is putting more credence on the opinions of highly
finicky home roaster type people. Then again, often doesn't seem to be the
case, answers given about crappy grinders and importance of even grind and
then those answers questioned over and over... I don't know, I do know I get
tired of repeating the detailed story with specific grinders of the multiple
grinder purchases totaling more than the cost of Rocky before getting Rocky.
Especially when often person asking then reports buying a piece of junk,
often one of the same pieces of junk I mentioned buying and getting rid of
before getting Rocky.
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc.http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htm

17) From: miKe mcKoffee
Quite true, not everyone can afford to go out and buy a Rocky or more
expensive grinder. But then even after copious input will buy a cheapo
electric burr grinder that cost as much or nearly as much as a quality Zass
manual grinder. That is when it's being foolish IMO.
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc.http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htm

18) From: Oaklandguy
Well, yes I am irritated.  If you read the original post, I had specific
considerations in mind for buying a grinder (including price, space, and
some improved quality over my previous grinder).  And I don't want to
manually grind with the Zass when I get up - I want coffee when I get =
up.
Good God - this is a hobby, not a calling for me.  I put my experience =
with
this grinder out there for people in similar situations to consider in =
their
evaluations.  I said it worked for me for drip and moka pot brews.  
I did not, and certainly did not mean to, say it was a wunderkind of
grinders.  In fact, the post ended saying that I hoped to one day have a
Rocky or Macap (or a Mazzer would be fine too).  Hmmm. Could I have
recognized that this was just a step to something better?
Also, I did research the archive, talked with others, and found a happy
result.  I did test it against other grinders in the same price range.  =
The
implication from some of these messages is that some of us newbies are =
just
bumbling idiots (I do have my moments, granted) without anything serious =
to
add to the hallowed halls of homeroasting.
For me, this was the intersection of limited income meeting a desire for
better quality in a hobby.  If anyone on the list wants to subsidize my =
rent
so I can move into a place with space for a Rocky or Mazzer and provide =
a
grant of a few thousand bucks so I can get top of the line, I'd be happy =
to
consider it!  ;)
We are not all coffee afficianados with a delicate palate to please.  =
Some
of us just want better coffee within an affordable range, ergo =
homeroasting.
When one of us comes across something that improves the experience and =
then
gets sniped at about not getting top of the line, or wasting time =
trolling
ebay or backbay or whatever bay, it doesn't really add to the =
conversation.
IMHO.  
And my sincere apologies for reigniting a battle when I just wanted to =
share
information.
Brent
<Snip>

19) From: Les
Brent,
My main concern is what will happen if you crank it down and try to do
espresso.  As long as you keep those burrs from touching, you should
be able to have a good grind (not excellent because at that price the
burrs can't be all that well made).  My advice which I posted in my
original post concerning this grinder is just don't do espresso even
once! or you you might just ruin the whole thing.  I speak from
experience with a similar grinder that did an OK job for vac pot and
French Press.
Les
On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 22:12:59 -0800, Oaklandguy  wrote:
<Snip>

20) From: Ben Treichel
Oaklandguy wrote:
<Snip>
Brent, I don't think none of us were. The pallate elevates its standards 
and ok becomes lousy, and it just becomes more 'delicate' by itself. 
Also a hobby is nothing more than an obsession you don't get paid for.
Ben

21) From: Gene Smith
<Snip>
Well said, Brent.
Gene Smith
riding the wild learning curve, in Houston

22) From: Gene Smith
Obviously, what we should do is start a used espresso equipment rescue 
service, so that when people decide to divest themselves of unwanted Mazzers 
and whatnot, they'll offer it to us first, instead of letting it sit around 
and rot in a garage, or be offered for sale in a market that has no need for 
it.  Sort of like various animal rescue leagues...only not as warm and 
fuzzy...
Gene Smith
willing to take in a homeless grinder, in Houston

23) From: HckneyElec
this sounds like a wonderful and appropriate idea
i would certainly be willing to do my part
larry

24) From: Oaklandguy
Gene,
That's a great idea, and this is a list of big-hearted folks people who
might consider this.  When I first started the grinder search several =
months
ago, someone on the list offered me their Mazzer Jolly.  (He can out
himself, if he likes.  Didn't want him to get inundated with requests =
from
others.)
I really appreciated the offer and tried like heck to find counterspace =
for
it, but without success.  And some very nice things get offered in the
Traditions.
But would I be willing to buy something from someone on this list over
someone on eBay?  You bet.  You get a feel for folks after a while (even =
on
listservs) and that can be a good guide.  I'd rather buy from someone I
"know" than a stranger any day.
Brent
Roastin in a PII for a drip/moka brew
<Snip>

25) From: HckneyElec
i hate to keep asking questions but can any of you give input as to what  you 
have learned through trial and error is the best heat gun to purchase for  
the roasting and what type/size dog bowl?
i.e. should i get a 2 speed heat gun and how many watts, brand, model  etc
what size bowl and should it be stainless steel?
also i assume i need a thermometer? or not?
and does a variac help much or is this for the very subtle techniques of a  
pro?
thanks
larry

26) From: HckneyElec
speaking of ebay
is it allowable to give an ebay itm number on this site?
i really would like for some of you to look at my recently purchased  
espresso machine to see if you have had experience with it and/or if you know  where 
i can get an owner's manual, etc.
also i still need advice on cleaning the thing before i use it
thanks for all the amazing assistance
larry

27) From: HckneyElec
well since i did buy it and you seem to think it is ok
the item number on ebay for the espreso machine i bought is
4330222166
if anybody had the time to invest please look at the krups espresso machine  
i bought and give any input as far as where  i might get an owners manual,  
any experience you may have had and how to clean it, etc, etc
thanks
larry

28) From: Peter Schmidt
Hey 'buddies'........
  At times this mailing list reminds me of that old party game, where
someone would create a phrase of a few sentences and send it around the
room.  how hilarious it would be once it finished its course.
  That's what i see happening a lot around here.  a post goes up.  someone
responds to it, and then someone responds to the response, so on and so
forth.
  And then the full moon sets us to howling, and who knows what else........
I'm a newbie too Brent, with only about 95# of roasting under my belt.  but
i don't think anything pejorative was intended.  when you look at these old
timers,  errrr... long time roasters, they go way out of there way to point
us all in the right direction, or at least a well-intended direction.  and
that's how i would interpret this wandering thread.....
just my 2¢......  sipping a 50/50 Harar City+ and a Peru Norte Full
City+..... a fairly successful blend that would benefit from some Sumatran
of equal parts.....
roasting in the shade in m'waukee,
peter

29) From: Tom Ulmer
While I do not use a Rocky or a Mazzer, I use what I believe is a high
quality grinder...
I have the Cuisinart grinder in an apartment I occasionally stay in. It is
adequate for a press, percolator, or vacuum pot and produces a reasonably
uniform grind. It is not what I'd consider to be high quality, but what
would you expect for $35? Everytime I use it I am startled by how loud and
noisy it is. I am thinking it should last a year or two with normal use.

30) From: Ben Treichel
HckneyElec wrote:
<Snip>
Since you already bought it, normally its not a problem.

31) From: Pecan Jim Gundlach
--Apple-Mail-4-755634597
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Larry,
      Get the largest dog bowel you can and stainless steel is the way 
to go.  I have a 1500 watt two speed heat gun, I would like a little 
more power.  The nice thing about heat gun roasting is you have 
immediate control of heat by adjusting the distance between the gun and 
the beans no need for a variac.   I never use a thermometer, the 
roasting process is too intense to be able to use one.   If I had a 
talking thermometer, I would probably use it.
      Jim Gundlach
On Nov 1, 2004, at 8:45 AM, HckneyElec wrote:
<Snip>
--Apple-Mail-4-755634597
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Larry,
     Get the largest dog bowel you can and stainless steel is the way
to go.  I have a 1500 watt two speed heat gun, I would like a little
more power.  The nice thing about heat gun roasting is you have
immediate control of heat by adjusting the distance between the gun
and the beans no need for a variac.   I never use a thermometer, the
roasting process is too intense to be able to use one.   If I had a
talking thermometer, I would probably use it.
     Jim Gundlach
On Nov 1, 2004, at 8:45 AM, HckneyElec wrote:
Ariali hate to keep asking
questions but can any of you give input as to what you have learned
through trial and error is the best heat gun to purchase for the
roasting and what type/size dog bowl?
Ariali.e. should i get a 2 speed
heat gun and how many watts, brand, model etc
Arialwhat size bowl and should it
be stainless steel?
Arialalso i assume i need a
thermometer? or not?
Arialand does a variac help much
or is this for the very subtle techniques of a pro?
Arialthanks
Ariallarry
--Apple-Mail-4-755634597--

32) From: Pecan Jim Gundlach
--Apple-Mail-5-756805481
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Larry,
      My guess is that you have a relatively rare machine.  The only way =
to find out is to test it.  I'm sure you will be able to get feedback 
from the list as you try it out.  Given the age you might want to order =
a new filter gasket, old rubber often does not seal very well.
     Jim Gundlach
On Nov 1, 2004, at 9:08 AM, HckneyElec wrote:
<Snip>
<Snip>
--Apple-Mail-5-756805481
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Larry,
     My guess is that you have a relatively rare machine.  The only
way to find out is to test it.  I'm sure you will be able to get
feedback from the list as you try it out.  Given the age you might
want to order a new filter gasket, old rubber often does not seal very
well.  
    Jim Gundlach
On Nov 1, 2004, at 9:08 AM, HckneyElec wrote:
Arialwell since i did buy it and
you seem to think it is ok
Arialthe item number on ebay for
the espreso machine i bought is
=
Arial4330222166=
Arialif anybody had the time to
invest please look at the krups espresso machine i bought and give any
input as far as where  i might get an owners manual, any experience
you may have had and how to clean it, etc, etc
Arialthanks
Ariallarry
=
--Apple-Mail-5-756805481--

33) From: Michael Wascher
This thread is stuck on the Kopi Luwak too, I see.  --MikeW
On Mon, 1 Nov 2004 09:11:58 -0600, Pecan Jim Gundlach
 wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
"Insanity -- a perfectly rational adjustment to an insane world."
  -- R. D. Laing

34) From: Gene Smith
<Snip>
Yeah, Mike, we see to just get further and further behind...
Gene Smith
riding the wild learning curve, in Houston

35) From: HckneyElec
when it comes to the dog bowl for the roasting
would a large bowl, stainless steel, like 4-6 quarts, sold at walmart,  etc  
thin steel, work as well as a dog bowl?
larry

36) From: Pecan Jim Gundlach
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The wide lip of the dog bowl makes it more stable while stirring and 
roasting.  A round bottom bowl is likely to fall over and spill the 
beans.
       Jim Gundlach
On Nov 1, 2004, at 10:19 AM, HckneyElec wrote:
<Snip>
<Snip>
--Apple-Mail-6-766288452
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The wide lip of the dog bowl makes it more stable while stirring and
roasting.  A round bottom bowl is likely to fall over and spill the
beans.
      Jim Gundlach
On Nov 1, 2004, at 10:19 AM, HckneyElec wrote:
Arialwhen it comes to the dog bowl
for the roasting
Arialwould a large bowl, stainless
steel, like 4-6 quarts, sold at walmart, etc  thin steel, work as well
as a dog bowl?
Ariallarry
=
--Apple-Mail-6-766288452--

37) From: Dave Huddle
I've worn out a few low priced grinders, including a Solis Maestro.
Now, I'm using an ANFIM grinder from SweetMarias.  Unfortunately, Tom
says it is no longer available from him.
The ANFIM works fine for me for Bunn drip, Moka pot, espresso ----.
You might be able to find a leftover ANFIM on Froogle.
It isn't cheap, but it ought to last a very long time.
Dave

38) From: HckneyElec
good information to have on the bowl
as always you guys and your experience are very valuable to me
thanks
larry

39) From: B. Scott Harroff
I've read the below discussion and respect the opinions of the different
contributors.
Regarding the Mazzer Mini, it's very easy to take a dremel and cut about 50%
off the top hopper to make it fit easily under/into a standard kitchen
cabinet.  And, that leaves plenty of space in the hopper for the amount of
beans that most folks will grind in one sitting.
If one is concerned about "what if I goto sell it", a replacement top hopper
can be purchased for under $15.


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