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Topic: The Perfect Bean (27 msgs / 646 lines)
1) From: Mike Womer
Tim, based on your original preferences and definition of what you're seeking in a perfect bean, my *very* limited newbie experiences would lead me to suggest you read Tom's profiles on:
1. Mexico Oaxaca Pluma Hidalgo
2. Brazil Fazenda "Dulce"
3. Colombian Popayan Caucano (wonderfully balanced for me, maybe too bright for you)
Please note that I use a Fresh Roast 8+ which struggles with premature roastification... hard to last past 4:30 to reach 2nd crack. So my beans are probably not as velvety-chocolaty as they might be.
For what little its worth,
Mike

2) From: Tim TenClay
I know everyone has different opinions, but, I was wondering if
someone could give me a suggestion on the perfect bean.  Here's what
I'm looking for:
  --Very Rich and "chocolately"
  --Fully flavored, but not acidic
  --Doesn't require resting for more than 2 days
  --Is more "velvety" than "bright"
Most of the coffees I've tried are quite bright; similar to a weak,
wattery merlot.  I want the coffee version of black velvet.
(I suppose I should note that I've always considered Costa Rican beans
my favorite and leaned away from Africa - lately though, Costa Ricans
seem a little weak and Africans still seem a little acidic and
bright.)
Does that make any sense?
Any suggestions? 
Grace and Peace,
  `tim
-- 
Rev. Tim TenClay
Dunningville Reformed Church (www.dunningville.org)
Knots & More Tatting Supplies (www.knotsandmore.com) NATA #253

3) From: Bob Baker
Hi Tim,
I would try the Sulawesi Toraja.
My Favorite
Bob/Dallas
Tim TenClay  wrote:
<Snip>
<Snip>

4) From: jason molinari
I think an Uganda bugisu would fit this bill...
jason my $0.02
--- Tim TenClay  wrote:
<Snip>http://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>">http://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast<Snip>http://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>

5) From: alfred
Well, most of the folks say it is Island of Saint Helena.
Unfortunately it will only be available when you get to heaven.

6) From: AlChemist John
Ugandan Bugisu or Mohka Ismali.  That is my staple kind of 
coffee.  Frankly, I find a lot of Tom's Brazilians fit this also, hence my 
love of Brazilians.
Sometime around 07:21 11/18/2004, Tim TenClay typed:
<Snip>
--
John Nanci 
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.dreamsandbones.net/blog/http://www.chocolatealchemy.com/

7) From: DEchelbarg
In a message dated 11/18/2004 10:28:26 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
rbbaker writes:
Hi Tim,
I would try the Sulawesi Toraja.
My Favorite
Bob/Dallas
I would agree with the above:  You might want to try some Mexico Oaxaca Cafe 
Pluma - Hidalgo, or maybe Indian Pearl Mountain MNEB Nuggets.  There is 
probably a Columbia around.  I have a little Colombian I was given green by a local 
roaster that seems to be what you are after, but I don't really know what it 
is.  
Dave

8) From: alfred
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
I'll second your choice of Brazils, Big John.
Blame it on Rio!
I find the best way to enjoy them are in cappuccinos rather than =
espressos.

9) From: Ed Needham
Those are some broad strokes you're painting the coffee world with.  I've
been roasting and enjoying a Costa Rica Tarratzu 'Fruta de Oro' which I
picked up from a local roaster when I was hanging out at their shop.  I'm
getting a very 'classic' Costa Rican taste from these beans roasted into
second crack, but with no oil showing.  Smooth, nutty, with a creamy,
caramely mouthfeel.  Very drinkable even when cold.  Long, lingering
pleasant aftertaste.
This is somewhat similar to the Costa Rican Dota Tarrazú -El Conquistador
that is sold by Sweetmaria's.
If you roast the beans too lightly, or too fast, so the center of the bean
is underroasted, then you'll get more of the tangy, bright characteristics
you describe.  Roast a bit darker and you'll begin to develop the rich
caramelization and roast flavors to balance the varietal flavors.  Go too
far and you'll get flat, dull and nasty, but hit the sweet spot on your
Kenya's or Costa Rican beans and you'll be more satisfied.  A Tanzania 
Peaberry might be more to your liking.
*********************
Ed Needham
"to absurdity and beyond!"
ed at homeroaster dot com
(include [FRIEND] somewhere in the subject line of any email correspondence)
*********************

10) From: DEchelbarg
In a message dated 11/18/2004 12:03:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
jasonmolinari writes:
I think an Uganda bugisu would fit this bill...
jason my $0.02
Last year's certainly would, I haven't tried the new organic -- 

11) From: jason molinari
me either..i have 4lbs left of last years still
jason
--- DEchelbarg wrote:
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12) From: Jeff Oien
I tried the Uganda Bugisu (sp?) at a friends and though it
was kind of bright. How about Columbian Narino del Abuelo?
JeffO
Tim TenClay wrote:
<Snip>

13) From: Gary Townsend
Jeff, the Bug is awesome @ Full City, ( I'm down to 5 oz.. :-( 
What level of roast did you roast yours to? Just curious...I'm finding
out that Full City roasts, for me, have more body & chocolaty-malty
flavors, than lighter city roasts. Also, how fast are you roasting,
longer roast times (up to 18 min) have more depth IMO. What method of
roasting do you use?
On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 12:33:59 -0600, Jeff Oien  wrote:
<Snip>

14) From: Jeff Oien
Hi,
This was at a friend's a few weeks ago and he roasted it so
memory is fuzzy, but he usually goes full city or plus. I'm
very sensitive to bright, so if there's brightness
I'll taste it. It was roasted SC/GG. I'm always willing to give
it a second change though. I had written off all African beans
then discovered Harrar! Oh my. Maybe I should try Sidamo too.
Anyway, I still think a good low acid Columbian like Narino, a
Brazil, or a Mexican may be what he's looking for.
JeffO
Gary Townsend wrote:
<Snip>

15) From: Tim TenClay
On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 12:57:18 -0600, Gary Townsend  wrote:
<Snip>
I roast with a toastmaster (popper).  A typical roast lasts about 10
minutes - that's just into 2nd crack (for me) and leaves my beans with
just a few drops of oil on them.  I'm convinced that's not quite as
long as I want (which I'm working on).  I have this impression that
roasting any darker tends to make the flavor less full and more
brittle.  Maybe that's a misconception....
Grace and Peace,
  `tim
-- 
Rev. Tim TenClay
Dunningville Reformed Church (www.dunningville.org)
Knots & More Tatting Supplies (www.knotsandmore.com) NATA #253

16) From: Terry Stockdale
I'll second (or third, or fourth or whatever the recommendation for the 
Uganda Bugisu.  I typically roast 20-30 seconds into 2nd crack with my 
Hottop.  With my gas grill and RK Drum, this same degree of roast is about 
45-50 seconds into 2nd.  Don't know why the timing difference but the taste 
is the same.
This same FC+ roast is great for espresso or americanos or drip coffee.  It 
doesn't have the brightness necessary to cut through in an espresso/milk drink.
Terryhttp://www.terrystockdale.comAt 12:57 PM 11/18/2004, Gary Townsend wrote:
<Snip>

17) From: Pecan Jim Gundlach
Tim,
      Let me start by arguing that your questions suggests you are 
taking the wrong approach to home roasting good coffees.  There are 
several good to great coffees that fit your description.  However, 
there is not a perfect bean.   Coffees are complex and constantly 
changing.   The green beans you buy will often be a little different 
from the ones the buyer cupped and next years crop from the same trees 
may well not be worth ordering.  You do not get to find your one coffee 
and stick with it.   Nope, this is an ongoing process that requires 
frequent decisions, trial and error, and many wonderful discoveries.  
You have to stay involved, you don't get to pick one and stick with it. 
   I can't help with a current suggestion because my wife cleaned the 
pantry a few months ago and discovered that I have been trying to keep 
up with Mike McKoffee so I've been in stash reduction mode so long that 
I haven't even looked at Tom's offerings recent enough to know what is 
available.  I do get to order some more for my birthday next month 
though.
        Jim Gundlach
On Nov 18, 2004, at 9:21 AM, Tim TenClay wrote:
<Snip>

18) From: Tom Ulmer
Jim...
Then there are those of us that would argue that your argument is
justification of our search for the "perfect bean"(s). Then again, this list
would probably offer no argument at all.

19) From: R.N.Kyle
<Snip>
I'll second this choice that Bob has made.
Sulawesi, fits your request 
RK

20) From: Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
I agree Jim, including the stash reduction part! (just dropped below 170#s)
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc.http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htm

21) From: AlChemist John
Not even close in my book.  Not full or chocolatey IMO.
Sometime around 07:47 11/18/2004, alfred typed:
<Snip>
--
John Nanci 
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.dreamsandbones.net/blog/http://www.chocolatealchemy.com/

22) From: Felix Dial
On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 18:20:52 -0600 (GMT-06:00), Mike Womer wrote:
<Snip>
I haven't had the Dulce, but I've roasted both the Hidalgo and the
Caucano -- both very chocolatey at the beginning of and into 2nd
crack. The Hidalgo I thought straight forward and almost too simple
tasting, but still very good. The Caucano I like at a much darker
roast. There's lots and lots of dark bittersweet chocolate. I don't
shy away from fruity-acidic coffees, but pre second crack, the high
notes of the Caucano taste a little odd to me. To me there's more
vegetable than fruit ... kind of like green peppers ... tastes a hint
like the green bean smell really. Anyone else notice this? But again,
the Caucano is a really great coffee. I just prefer it at darker
roasts.
Respectfully,
   Felix

23) From: Demian Ebert
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Here's my opinion on this. 
Current favorites are the ethiopian harar, roasted to FC/FC++ or the PNG
Kimel, roasted to C+/FC. Although we have been roasting and drinking a
lot of SMs French Roast blend lately that meets most of those criteria.
It's a huge comlpex cup of coffee. I'd call it velvety and without much
acid brightness. It seems to be substantially better after three days
rest instead of two. If you like darker roasts, I'd recommend you give
it a try. Of course I'm roasting for the French Press and not making
espresso.
Demian
<Snip>
"Tim TenClay"  
<Snip>

24) From: Dennis Parham
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well.. my experience is that the Ethiopian FT Organic Harar is PLENTY 
potent at Full City + and I would rate it for myself as one of the TOP =
beans I have ever had! however.. it is SO potent ... sometimes I have 
to blend with a touch of something lighter... it is funny.. the 
Ethiopian is SO complex  to me.. if you want to soften is up... add a 
bean you like (roasted separately ) and when it is blended, it will 
bring out whatever characteristic that is strong in the other bean! as  =
the ethiopian has EVERYTHING in it! ( I just woke up, so disregard my 
attempt at sounding intelligent! )hehehe
Dennis Parham
On Nov 19, 2004, at 11:07 AM, Demian Ebert wrote:
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what
<Snip>
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well.. my experience is that the Ethiopian FT Organic Harar is PLENTY
potent at Full City + and I would rate it for myself as one of the TOP
beans I have ever had! however.. it is SO potent ... sometimes I have
to blend with a touch of something lighter... it is funny.. the
Ethiopian is SO complex  to me.. if you want to soften is up... add a
bean you like (roasted separately ) and when it is blended, it will
bring out whatever characteristic that is strong in the other bean! as =
the ethiopian has EVERYTHING in it! ( I just woke up, so disregard my
attempt at sounding intelligent! )hehehe
Dennis Parham
On Nov 19, 2004, at 11:07 AM, Demian Ebert wrote:
Courier NewHere's
my opinion on this. 
Courier NewCurrent
favorites are the ethiopian harar, roasted to FC/FC++ or the PNG
Kimel, roasted to C+/FC. Although we have been roasting and drinking a
lot of SMs French Roast blend lately that meets most of those
criteria. It's a huge comlpex cup of coffee. I'd call it velvety and
without much acid brightness. It seems to be substantially better
after three days rest instead of two. If you like darker roasts, I'd
recommend you give it a try. Of course I'm roasting for the French
Press and not making espresso.
Courier =
NewDemian 
Courier New>Thursday,
November 18, 2004 7:21 AM 
 Courier New"Tim TenClay"
< 
 Courier New>>I know
everyone has different opinions, but, I was wondering if =
Courier New>>someone could
give me a suggestion on the perfect bean.  Here's
what 
 Courier New>>I'm looking
for: 
 Courier New>>  --Very Rich
and "chocolately" 
Courier New>>  --Fully
flavored, but not acidic 
 Courier New>>  --Doesn't
require resting for more than 2 days 
 Courier New>>  --Is more
"velvety" than "bright" 
Courier =
New>> 
Courier =
New> 
=
--Apple-Mail-1-171776871--

25) From: Les
Rev. Tim  from Rev. Les,
Assuming the crop is at its best (Tom only orders the best)  Hands
down on the Uganda Bugisu.  If limited to one bean, I would take
Bugisu.  That said, I like variety.  My second choice is a good Panama
followed by a good Kona.
Les
On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 06:46:46 -0800, AlChemist John  wrote:
<Snip>

26) From: Jean
From: "Tim TenClay" 
<Snip>
I can offer a suggestion, but it will only meet 3 of your 4 =
requirements: Brazil Fazenda Ipanema "Dulce" - this is the coffee I use =
to introduce people to good, full-flavored-yet-mild coffee.  It is rich, =
full-bodied, chocolate-ty, and yeah, velvety would be a good =
description.  However, I like it best with at least 5 days rest. . .
 
You also might like to try the Aussie, but it doesn't have the body I =
think you are seeking and again, needs at least 72 hrs rest, IMO.    
 
Good luck,
Jean  :~)

27) From: Doug Cadmus
That's pretty much a palate-perfect description of a Nicaraguan 
coffee... try Tom's Segovia, or his Matagalpa.
-deCadmus
<Snip>


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