HomeRoast Digest


Topic: New Roaster (126 msgs / 3247 lines)
1) From: Roger Lebow
I've had mine for several months and am extremely happy with it (having upgraded from a FreshRoast 8). Large batch size, extremely flexible in pinpointing roasts. Only down-side: it IS expensive (but what isn't?). I've also read a report here in the past few days of a Gene Cafe failing to heat properly, though I don't know how old that machine was.
Roger in Sierra Madre

2) From: Steve D

3) From: Eric Fesler
Ahh, sorry if I misrepresented what I did here.  I realize that alot of the
flavor is stored in the first few ounces.  I actually took less that 1/4 oz
from the first 2oz more like an eyedropper full or a few cc.

4) From: bob barthelow
I have just started to home roast using a Rosto machine. Several questions.
 
1. What does the "crack" sound like. There is much noise from the roaster and about the only distinct noise I ever hear is from the beans knocking on the metal sides. Old ears perhaps.
 
2. I checked my voltage at the outlet and it is 120v on the button. I roast outdoors and the ambient temp is btween 50-60 degrees. It seems to take longer than expect to roast. e.g. 14 minutes for a roast appearing to be about a city roast. 
 
3. There appears to be significant variation in roast times depending on the beans. The current Sumatra Gr1 beans take 2+ minutes longer than other Sumatran beans.
 
Thanks
 
bob
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online

5) From: David Gwyn
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
I'm curious about your 14 minutes roasting time. I use 115g batches and =
roast only about 5-6 minutes when roasting inside. It's about 10 degrees =
outside right now, so I have to shoot the smoke into the fireplace. If I =
turned the dial to 14 minutes, I'd have black shells left in the =
machine. In terms of hearing the cracking sounds, it depends a lot on =
the beans. The best way to learn the sound is to take a few in a skillet =
and stir them around. One you hear the cracking sound you'll be able to =
hear a bit better in the Rosto, although the fan is very loud as you =
described.

6) From: John Abbott (wandering
Bob,
I bought a used Rosto and the only time it acted the way yours is was
the result of chaff inside the unit blocking the airflow.  You might
want to remove the screen and vacuum that area good.  
John 
At 07:45 AM 2/11/2004 -0800, you wrote:
<Snip>

7) From: Sue Stevenson
Hi, Thanks for all the welcomes.I bought one of the new FreshRoast roasters. Just to see if I was really going to like this new hobby.I'm hooked! I did over do a few! I see some developing a little oil after a day or two. My husband and I probably consume a couple pounds of coffee a week. Of course, my family all wants me to roast some for them. I have been so thrilled with this new hobby that I have had to share my coffee with everyone at work as well! When I get a day off I've been roasting 8 batches or so, a few in the evenings after work also. A 2.25 ounce batch  doesn't go very far! The BBQ method sounds interesting and so does the wok. I'll have to start saving for something bigger. I'm soaking up all the info you guys put out on all the different roasters - homemade and retail. Thanks, Sue

8) From: Pecan Jim Gundlach
On Mar 10, 2004, at 8:29 PM, Sue Stevenson wrote:
<Snip>
Sue,
      Roasting with a wok produces a lot of smoke,  I can do it because 
I can shut the kitchen off from the rest of the house, the house was 
designed so the kitchen slaves were the only ones who had to suffer the 
heat of cooking in Alabama summers.  Some use a wok outside.   I'm a 
big fan of Ron's BBQ drums.
Jim Gundlach

9) From: Steven Van Dyke
Hi Sue!
Welcome to a great obsession!  I started with the original FreshRoast and an
even smaller batch size so I know where you are.  Now I'm using a Rosto and
keep eyeing the larger roasters.
If you want an inexpensive larger roaster you can try the 'Turbo/Crazy' the
list came up with - it was a group effort as well befits such a
Frankensteinian contraption.
You'll need the following:
'Turbo' air oven (really just the top)
Stir Crazy popcorn popper (I got the 8-quart model for $40)
A large, shallow box
A colander
A large pail with a lid that you can 'modify' (I used an empty kitty-litter
bucket)
A vacuum cleaner with a hose (I use a Dirt Devil hand-held, ShopVacs work
well)
Some oven mitts
A place to work.
Now for the explanation.  The Turbo air ovens get plenty hot enough to
roast, but there's almost no agitation and trying to shake the thing the
whole time is just not worth the effort (unless you're out of coffee, of
course).
The Stir Crazy popcorn poppers have that great agitator but don't get hot
enough.
However, if you set the top of the Turbo Air oven over the base of the Stir
Crazy popper you get heat + agitation = roaster.  I just did one cup  of
greens at a time because that amount fits well in a pint mason jar when
done - the roaster could have easily done two cups green, maybe more.
One problem with roasting a larger mass of beans - you end up with a large
mass of snapping, crackling, smoking hot beans.  The vaccuum cooler is
another thing from the list.  Take the pail and cut a hole in the lid so the
colander sits into it.  Make a hole about 1/3 of the way up from the bottom
for the vacuum hose.  Dump your hot beans into the colander and turn on the
vacuum.  Stir the beans with a spoon or something for a minute and they'll
be cool enough to work with your hands (caution - varies by bean mass and
air flow / temp).  Work them with your hands until nice and cool (mine takes
2 - 3 minutes total).  Working them with your hands makes it easier to get
the chaff to go through the colander and be sucked away by the vacuum.  The
whole process is a bit noisy but very efficient.
Ok, details on the roast:
Bend the ends of the Stir Crazy's stirring wire up just a bit - helps keep
beans from jamming underneath.  If you're going to dedicate a unit to
roasting you can open it up and kill its heater - I left mine alone as it
makes darn good popcorn.  You can also replace the composite knob with a
wing-nut that will better withstand roasting temperatures.
The Turbo Air oven top will sit neatly on top of the Stir Crazy with just a
bit of overlap (varies by sizes, of course).  You set the whole assembly in
the shallow box or you get chaff *everywhere*.  The oven mitts are because
the handles of the Stir Crazy get pretty close to roasting temps and you
need to use them to dump the hot beans later.
Ready to go?  Dump a cup or so of beans on the Stir Crazy and plug it in.
The wire starts spinning and stirring the beans.  Set the Turbo air oven top
over the base and set it to full power.  You'll see the beans going through
all the usual stages of the roast and (depending on the bean) an amazing
amount of chaff whirling around, sparking sometimes, and mostly accumulating
in the shallow box.  Be ready as you get toward finish.  When you judge the
beans ready, turn off the Turbo oven and set it on its base.  Pick up the
Stir Crazy and dump the beans in the cooler.  I leave mine turning while I
do - makes it easier to get that bean or two that tries to get caught (a
bamboo skewer is handy here too as a non-scratch bean saver).  Fire up the
cooler and start stirring.
I strongly recommend a dry run before you fire everything up - it's much
nicer to figure out problems before you have that aforementioned mass of
snapping, crackling, smoking beans to deal with.
There are lots of ways to vary this whole effort, of course, but this should
get you started.
I switched from Turbo/Crazy to the Rosto because the Rosto is about the size
of a 2-liter bottle of soda and that's pretty much all there is to mess
with.  It also roasts about 1 cup of greens but that's it for a single
batch. I retain my Turbo/Crazy capability in case I need to do a larger
batch or have a hardware failure (plus my FreshRoast for samples /
fallback).
Any questions, let us know - most of this I got from other folks here so I
know they know the answers too.
Enjoy!
Steve :->
http://www.svandyke.com<- my simple home page
http://www.cafeshops.com/stevespics<- my little store of Impressionist &
Special Events Photography stuff)

10) From: Tom Ulmer
ok... i know this is going to upset someone's balance...
you got any extra kitchen slaves?

11) From: Pecan Jim Gundlach
The emancipation proclamation was supposed to free the slaves in this 
part of Alabama on January 1, 1863.  However I understand that Dr. 
James Boyd who owned the house at the time kept his until the end of 
the war in early 1865.  No slaves since then that I know of.  But, they 
did not know that when they built it in 1840.
      Jim Gundlach
On Mar 11, 2004, at 9:26 AM, Tom Ulmer wrote:
<Snip>

12) From: Tom Ulmer
guess that's a no...
indentured servants?

13) From: miKe mcKoffee

14) From: Tom Ulmer
INDEED!

15) From: Tim TenClay
Dear friends,
Merry Christmas to me (from my wife!)
As an early Christmas present, I'm getting a roaster!  I'm looking at
the Gene Cafe...it's better (lower!) priced than many and yet capable
of a half a pound (becoming increasingly necessary!)
Tom's review is exceptional (and enough to convince me), but if any of
you have one (or have tried one) I'd love to hear about it before I
take the plunge.
In advance, Thank You!
Grace and Peace,
  `tim
-- 
The content of this e-mail may be private or of confidential nature.
Do not forward without permission of the original author.
--
Rev. Tim TenClay, IAPC, NATA #253
Dunningville Reformed Church (www.dunningville.org)
Personal Blog:http://www.tenclay.org/blog

16) From: Larry English
Hi Tim,
  I've been using my Gene Cafe for a couple of weeks and so far it is a real
gem!  I started a year and a half ago with FreshRoast8+, then early this
year with iRoast2, and when the iR2 broke (it's being repaired or replaced
by Hearthware even as we speak) I ordered the Gene Cafe.  I'd planned on
upgrading anyway so the breakage was timely motivation.
  I'm able to get good roasts at all levels from City to Vienna (the latter
is usually due to inattention, since Full City + is normally my upper
limit).  Roasts take from around 14 to 18 minutes for loads from 230 to 250
grams, 8-9 oz.  It is quiet and very easy to use.  The only drawback is the
slow cooling cycle, so I'm learning when to stop the roast so it doesn't
drift past my target point during cooling.   But I really like the ability
to adjust the temperature during the roast rather than via pre-planned
programs on the iRoast2.  And I'm able to hear 1st crack fairly well, which
is out of the question on the very noisy iR2, but 2nd crack still eludes me.
Larry English
On 10/26/06, Tim TenClay  wrote:
<Snip>

17) From: Eddie Dove
Tim,
I have had my Gene Cafe for two months.  As of last light, I have run 64
roasts (just over 33 pounds) of coffee through it.  I do very much like this
roaster and the coffee I have roasted has been exquisite.  During the roast,
both time and temperature are adjustable.  You can initiate cooling at any
time or end it all together and cool the beans externally (I have done
both).  I use the roaster inside the house under a range hood that is vented
outside.
If you think you are going to need to roast larger batches though, you may
want to heed the instructions given me and go for the RK Drum.
I hope this helps ... if you want to ask me any questions about the Gene
Cafe, please don't hesitate to ask.
Respectfully,
Eddie Dove
On 10/26/06, Tim TenClay  wrote:
<Snip>

18) From: Jeff Sheltren
On Oct 26, 2006, at 7:38 PM, Eddie Dove wrote:
<Snip>
Wow, Eddie!  I hope you are not the only person drinking all that  
coffee :)
I just counted - I've now done 40 roasts on my Z&D since I started  
just over 2 months ago.  Pretty exciting!  Aside from 2 or 3 roasts I  
screwed up on (still learning, but I'm getting better), I've been  
having the best coffee of my life - not what I expected when I got  
down to an island in the middle of nowhere with no coffee shops in  
sight.
On a side note, tomorrow's my birthday and I plan to start it off  
right with a cup of DP Sidamo and a cup of the Brazil Yellow  
Bourbon.  I have been really enjoying the Sidamo, and I haven't tried  
the YB yet, but I roasted some yesterday and it smells great!
-Jeff

19) From: Gregg Talton
I've had my Gene Cafe for about two weeks - it's terrific.  As it's been
mentioned, cooling could be better, otherwise I like everything about it.
Gregg
On 10/26/06, Tim TenClay  wrote:
<Snip>

20) From: Derek Bradford
I'm the guy who's been having heat problems with mine.  I bought it in
August of this year, and have roasted about 2 pounds a week with it
since then.  Mine doesn't reach temperatures past 243-245C, and when
it does, it cannot maintain them.  I have a replacement arriving in
about 30 minutes, and the delivery company will be taking my old one
with them.  Customer service has been superb, and I have no doubt the
new machine will work as it should.  It's a convenient, easy to use
roaster.  I don't love it, but I really like it.
--Derek
<Snip>
-- http://www.novernae.comHome of the Wandering Sloth

21) From: Aaron
Right now I am torn between the hot top and the gene cafe.  Both roast 
about the same amount but I am leaning towards the hot top since it can 
do back to back roasts all day long, and there are days where ill 
probably want to roast 3 or 4 pounds.
anyone have any cons about the hot top .vs. gene cafe?  still not 
completely decided yet here.
thanks
aaron

22) From: Eddie Dove
Aaron,
I do back to back roasts with my Gene Cafe all the time.
Eddie
On 10/27/06, Aaron  wrote:
<Snip>

23) From: Steve Johnson (mac)
I got one a couple of months ago and I thought it was great until the 
other night, when a bad noise came from it just as I started to 
roast.  Now it won't turn with the drum in, though it will rotate if 
the drum is out.  Left a message on the genecafe site several days 
ago, but no response.
Steve
<Snip>

24) From: Julie Moore
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Hello, all,
 
As an introduction, I'm a coffee loving, empty nesting, self-employed =
potter
in Virginia.  I'm new to the list and to home roasting and boy, do I =
have
questions!  I received my fist shipment from Sweet Maria's today, 8-1/2 =
lb.
packets of various beans.  After reviewing the directions on their =
website
for hot air popcorn popper roasting, I headed to the back porch with my
supplies.  I chose to try the Sumatra Mandheling first.  I watched the =
color
carefully and stopped the popper at about 5 minutes when the beans were
about city roast color.  My concerns:  the beans are very uneven in =
color,
some much lighter than others and they don't smell like roasted coffee.  =
I
haven't ground them yet as I understand they're supposed to sit for =
12-48
hours before use.  Any and all advice would be welcome.
 
Thanks,
Julie 
King George, VA

25) From: Dan Bollinger
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Julie,  At 5 minutes, uneven color, the uncharacteristic coffee smell, =
and because you didn't mention hearing the first crack, I'm going to =
guess that they did not quite get to first crack, let alone City Roast. =
You'll know when you try a cup, it will be nasty stuff.  If so, you =
could try re-roasting them.  
Most people roast Sumatra to Full City (beginning of second crack) or a =
tad darker. 
Dan

26) From: Andy Thomas
Welcome, Julie,
It sounds as though your first batch may be
under-roasted. Did you hear first crack? It sounds a
bit like corn popping. You should roast at least until
first crack stops, and then longer if you like
according to your preferenc. 
  Most unmodified poppers roast around 3-4 ounces
volume. If you had a too small amount, it might roast
too slow. 
  It's true that most people let coffee rest for
several hours to several days, but you don't have to
wait. The flavor may not be as good as it can be, but
it will be good if the roast is good. So go ahead and
grind and brew. If your grinder seems to be working
too hard, that is a clue that the beans may be
under-roasted.
   Andy
--- Julie Moore 
wrote:
<Snip>
Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com.  Try it now.

27) From: Julie Moore
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Thanks for the response, Dan.  You're right, I never did hear the first
crack.  I just reasoned that the popper was so loud I'd missed it.  So, =
is
it true that the beans become more even in color as they approach the =
proper
roasting time?  Also, will the beans smell like the roasted stuff I mail
order right after I roast them or does this take time, degassing?  Last
question (for now).Reroasting is possible?
 
Julie 
King George, VA

28) From: Lynne
--Apple-Mail-2--950053149
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charsetNDOWS-1252;
	format=flowed
Julie -
Welcome to the group, and to the slippery slope of homeroasting! 
(Coffee will never be the same to you.)
I never used a hot air popper - started w/a Whirly-Pop I got at a yard =
sale for the whopping investment of $1, then when it broke after a few =
months of roasting (guess I wore it out!), I ended up roasting on the 
stove (which I still do).
The proof is in the tasting - you'll know! I'd say that 5 minutes is 
too short for roasting - I aim for 15/16 minutes, although, I actually =
seldom reach that amt of time - but if I reach 12 - 14, without getting =
the beans into the second crack - then I'm happy. But I do know that 
the coffee I've roasted doesn't have that heavenly roasted coffee smell =
until it rests for awhile. (That never stops me from sampling a cup 
right after roasting, though...)
Another thing I do when I'm unsure if I've roasted them long enough is =
sample a bean (others suggested this on this list). It should have a 
nice crunch - if it's too soft, it needs to be roasted a bit longer.
Lynne
On Jan 10, 2007, at 9:14 PM, Julie Moore wrote:
<Snip>
self-employed 
<Snip>
boy, 
<Snip>
 
<Snip>
Sumatra 
<Snip>
 
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
--Apple-Mail-2--950053149
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/enriched;
	charsetNDOWS-1252
Julie -
Welcome to the group, and to the slippery slope of homeroasting!
(Coffee will never be the same to you.)
I never used a hot air popper - started w/a Whirly-Pop I got at a yard
sale for the whopping investment of $1, then when it broke after a few
months of roasting (guess I wore it out!), I ended up roasting on the
stove (which I still do).
The proof is in the tasting - you'll know! I'd say that 5 minutes is
too short for roasting - I aim for 15/16 minutes, although, I actually
seldom reach that amt of time - but if I reach 12 - 14, without
getting the beans into the second crack - then I'm happy. But I do
know that the coffee I've roasted doesn't have that heavenly roasted
coffee smell until it rests for awhile. (That never stops me from
sampling a cup right after roasting, though...)
Another thing I do when I'm unsure if I've roasted them long enough is
sample a bean (others suggested this on this list). It should have a
nice crunch - if it's too soft, it needs to be roasted a bit longer.
Lynne
On Jan 10, 2007, at 9:14 PM, Julie Moore wrote:
ArialHello, =
all,
=
Arial†
ArialAs an introduction, Iím
a coffee loving, empty nesting, self-employed potter in Virginia.† Iím=
new to the list and to home roasting and boy, do I have questions!† I
received my fist shipment from Sweet Mariaís today, 8-1/2 lb. packets
of various beans.† After reviewing the directions on their website for
hot air popcorn popper roasting, I headed to the back porch with my
supplies.† I chose to try the Sumatra Mandheling first.† I watched =
the
color carefully and stopped the popper at about 5 minutes when the
beans were about city roast color.† My concerns:† the beans are very
uneven in color, some much lighter than others and they donít smell
like roasted coffee.† I havenít ground them yet as I understand
theyíre supposed to sit for 12-48 hours before use.† Any and all
advice would be welcome.
=
Arial†
=
ArialThanks,
=
ArialJulie
ArialKing George, =
VA
=
--Apple-Mail-2--950053149--

29) From: Brett Mason
you should get about 6-8 minutes on the popper... you should definitely hear
the loud popping of first cracjk, even through a closed window...  you
should hear the quieter crackling of second crack.
Don't be afraid to take your early roasts too far - Starbucks does it all
the time...  And you';ll do great,
Brett
On 1/10/07, Julie Moore  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

30) From: Andy Thomas
--- Julie Moore 
wrote:
<Snip>
Yes.  
<Snip>
They smell different. I love the smell of roasting
coffee, but some people don't. 
<Snip>
Yes. Maybe not the best, but better than most
stoe-bought. Certainly better than throwing them out.
Andy (Hah! Beat you to it, Dan.)
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.http://new.mail.yahoo.com

31) From: Brett Mason
Do re-roast what you started...  Put them in and fire it back up...  Stay
with it and try to take it through first crack,a nd also into 2nd crack -
you'll hear "rice crispies" nice and clear....
Will taste and smell like coffee.  You can pop a bean in your mouth after i=
t
is cooled, and munch on it - will be very tasty....
Once you get to know how long to roast, you can extend the roast by using a
50' extension cord - this lowers the voltage just a bit, and can help
develop an even better cup...  I don't do this as often, I just plug and
go...
Brett
On 1/10/07, Julie Moore  wrote:
<Snip>
s
<Snip>
per
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

32) From: Dan Bollinger
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Julie,  Fresh roasted coffee has the odor of cola or fragrant wood =
smoke.  You might want to sacrifice those beans by roasting them again, =
but this time take them to the point were they are smoking like a =
chimney and turning very dark. That will give you some landmarks to help =
you with your next roast and get you through second crack.  Dan

33) From: Dan Bollinger
<Snip>
Andy,  Actually, I mentioned re-roasting in my first post.  ;)  Dan

34) From: miKe mcKoffee
First, Welcome to the List and home roasting, enjoy the Journey!
<Snip>
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Julie Moore
	Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 6:35 PM
<Snip>
first crack.  I just reasoned that the popper was so loud I'd missed it.
So, is it true that the beans become more even in color as they approach the
proper roasting time?
Also, will the beans smell like the roasted stuff I mail order right after I
roast them or does this take time, degassing?  Last question (for
now).Reroasting is possible?
<Snip>
Generally speaking wet-processed beans should be even in color through-out
the roast while dry-processed beans (like typical Sumatra) are usually
uneven fully roasted.
Regardless as others have mentioned does indeed sound like under roasted.
Should smell heavenly as it goes through first crack, highly likey "better"
than what you've smelled from a bag. Munch a bean, if it doesn't taste like
coffee aught definitely re-roast it as soon as possible, it'll be fine,
especially a low acidity coffee like Sumatra.
It often suggested to take a roast all the way to way too dark and oily
charcoal so you know the roast stages and their approximate timings for your
setup.
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.

35) From: stereoplegic
i was worried about not hearing the cracks over the noise of the popper 
when i got started too, but it's never been a problem. that's one of the 
advantages of air-popper roasting: first crack is very well pronounced.
juliemoore wrote:
<Snip>
more even, yes, although many africans will look uneven until roasted 
darker (not what you want to do in many cases).
<Snip>
i was very disappointed in the smell (after roasting) of my first few 
roasts, but in a day or two (of degassing, as you mentioned), totally 
different story. if you leave them in your car for even an hour it'll 
smell like the stuff you order for days.
<Snip>
possible, yes. i've gotten some great results by reroasting, some 
disappointing, but better than store-bought.
<Snip>

36) From: SamToren
  It all depends on the roaster (and the coffee being roasted) - my first popcorn popper (the pumper) took about 15 minutes to get to 1st crack.  I quickly bought a poppery 2, and the roast would be done in about 5-9 minutes.  Even on my poppery (I've since moved on to the original, which roasts in about 5-6 minutes), which is really loud, I can hear 1st and 2nd crack.
   
  Try to burn your first roast, just so you can see what 1st and 2nd crack looks and sounds like. When you see tiny little black disks flying out of your popper, you know you've hit the middle of 2nd crack. The sample packs from Sweet Marias are great starters for burning your roast.
   
  The coffee really won't have a strong coffee smell until several hours after its been roasted. However, all the beans (other than about 4-5 oddballs in the group) should be the same color. 
   
  Enjoy
   
  Forwarded Message 
        From:  "Julie Moore"     To:  homeroast    Date:  Wed, 10 Jan 2007 21:14:18 -0500    Subject:  +New Roaster    HTML Attachment [ Scan and Save to Computer | Save to Yahoo! Briefcase ] 
                Hello, all,
   
  As an introduction, Iím a coffee loving, empty nesting, self-employed potter in Virginia.  Iím new to the list and to home roasting and boy, do I have questions!  I received my fist shipment from Sweet Mariaís today, 8-1/2 lb. packets of various beans.  After reviewing the directions on their website for hot air popcorn popper roasting, I headed to the back porch with my supplies.  I chose to try the Sumatra Mandheling first.  I watched the color carefully and stopped the popper at about 5 minutes when the beans were about city roast color.  My concerns:  the beans are very uneven in color, some much lighter than others and they donít smell like roasted coffee.  I havenít ground them yet as I understand theyíre supposed to sit for 12-48 hours before use.  Any and all advice would be welcome.
   
  Thanks,
  Julie 
  King George, VA

37) From: Karl Harder
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Hi Julie
Glad you made it to "the list"
I am very new at this myself...  Nov 13th 2006
There are so many variables....
Your sense of taste and smell
The kind (origin)of green beans
How they have been stored and for how long.
How you roast them.
I have been using a Poppery.
Several things that I have become aware of.
The bean mass that you roast must be an amount that loads the popper.
If you use less, The air flow will spit out your beans and cools them to =
where you will never get to the proper temperature
You will end up with "baked" beans, not roasted beans. Been there, Done =
that.
Ambient temperature plays a BIG part in air popper roasting.
I tried roasting beans when the ambient temp was 40 degrees.  Did not =
work.  Baked beans.
I have found that First and second crack vary with different beans AND =
AMBIENT TEMP.
First crack is to me a loud (the Poppery is noisy) but I have no trouble =
hearing First crack.
First crack is to me a very loud unmistakble cracking sound.
Second crack is audible, but subdued( more like rice krispies) But very =
discernable
I am sure that how you cool them is very important.  Fast is what you =
are looking for so you stop the roast where you want.
The resting time.( time from when you roast the beans till the time when =
you grind them and brew them.)
How you grind them. I am clueless here.  My wife bought me a Salton =
spinning blade, and later I bought a Barista burr grinder from Starbucks =
and have been using it since
What kind of water you use.  Big area here.  200 cities water.... 200 =
different tasting coffees from the same roast and grind.
The kind of method you use to brew.  I was using a Mr. Coffee, and NEVER =
did get a GOOD cup of coffee
The method (and temp) that you use to brew  can and will make all the =
difference in the world.
I am now using a Melitta Clarity and it does a great job.
Filters......
There is a current thread about brown filters VRS white filters.  I have =
and use both and quite frankly can not tell the difference.  Others can.
Consistancy is what I am striving for
1.  record keeping
What Beans
What did I roast (or bake) when.  It won't take you long to pass on =
baked beans 
Record it though.  It is part of the learning experience??????
2.  What were the conditions.    (ambient temp ) ( what mass... How many =
grams or ounces ???
   Tom has provided an incredible amout of information  =
http://www.sweetmarias.com/
Try this link.....Specialty Coffee Association of America   =http://www.scaa.org/

38) From: Brian Kamnetz
Julie,
Sounds like all the characteristics of an under-roasted batch. Especially
the faint smell. In my experience, if the coffee smell is pleasant but
faint, you are probably under-roasted.
As others have said, but in a list:
Start with about half a cup of beans.
Start a timer, and start the popper. Let it go.
Take notes, of when first crack starts, when it stops, and when second crac=
k
starts.
If second crack never happens, use MORE beans.
If first crack races and runs right into second crack, use LESS beans.
When I used to use an unmodified popper, I found that everything was best i=
f
I let the roast go to the first snaps of second crack.
One more thing: You will get only a couple roasts out of half a pound of
greens. I would recommend getting the big sampler, 1# each of 8 different
coffees, the next time you order.
Happy roasting! Seems like it would fit into the category of things that a
potter enjoys!
Next step for you, if you are currently using a whirly-blade grinder: A
Zassenhaus grinder from eBay.
Brian
On 1/10/07, Julie Moore  wrote:
<Snip>
s
<Snip>
per
<Snip>

39) From: Julie Moore
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Brian,
 
I've been using a DeLonghi burr grinder and a French press for ever, but =
if
the grinder goes I'll look into upgrading.  Thanks for the input.
 
Julie

40) From: Brett Mason
Not sure if the DeLonghi is rated "forever"...  Check out the grind closely
and make sure it is a consistent, low-dust grind you are achieving.  This
should be the primary gauge of how your grinder is performing.
Brett
On 1/11/07, Julie Moore  wrote:
<Snip>
a
<Snip>
s
<Snip>
per
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

41) From: Julie Moore
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Gotcha, I'll take a close look tomorrow morning.
 
Julie

42) From: Julie Moore
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
I wanted to thank you all for your fabulous input.  Can't believe how much
I've learned since 10:00 last night.  My stumbling attempt at roasting
turned out much better than I'd though.  I let the beans sit open overnight
and brewed them in my French press this morning and they resulting beverage
was as good or better than any I've made from retail roast beans.  I'm
encouraged and excited to continue the java journey.
Julie

43) From: Brian Kamnetz
Let us know how it goes! As I mentioned before, I assume that someone who
likes throwing pots will love fiddling around with various methods of
homeroasting and the various extraction options. If you enjoyed roasting in
your frying pan, that may be the method that appeals most to you, or you may
enjoy the Heat Gun / Dog Bowl roasting method.
Brian
On 1/11/07, Julie Moore  wrote:
<Snip>

44) From: Julie Moore
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
OK, I roaster another batch in the popper during the warmest part of the day
(50 degrees) today.  It took a while, but I got to first crack which lasted
a long time (10 minutes) with just a few pops at a time.  I never heard
second crack at all, but the beans look like the Full City Roast picture on
Sweet Maria's.  Looking forward to trying it tomorrow. 
For those of you that let it rest a day or so before use, do you leave it
open to the air to de-gas or seal it right away?
Thanks once again,
Your humble apprentice,
Julie

45) From: Larry Johnson
I put it in a mason jar and don't tighten the lid, just give about one turn
to keep it on. I usually leave it like that for about 24-36 hrs.
Larry J (Lilboybrew)
-- 
"Having a positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it annoys
enough people to make it worth the effort."
On 1/11/07, Julie Moore  wrote:
<Snip>

46) From: Brian Kamnetz
Julie,
It sure sounds like you are not generating enough heat.
If you can get more beans into the popper, do that. Many people fashion a
chimney from a tin can, oil lamp, etc, to keep the beans in the popper.
Also, google something like "thermostat popcorn pumper" and you will come up
with several sets of directions on disabling the thermostat in your popper.
This is especially useful if you notice the heat cycling on and off as you
try to roast.
Try to plug your popper directly into a wall outlet, with no extension cord.
You may want to use your skillet as your main roasting method until you get
your popper squared away.
Try to not get too frustrated! You will eventually get things squared away
and will be roasting like a pro.
Brian
On 1/11/07, Julie Moore  wrote:
<Snip>

47) From: Larry Williams
Got my IR2 for Christmas and have thoroughly enjoyed roasting.  I  
prefer the City roast.   I am unable to hear the crack as I could in the 
poppery 2 so I use color and appearance of the beans.  I use the preset 
2 on the IR2.  The finish temp on the display is 405 degrees.  I hit the 
cool switch when I see the first indication of oil on the beans.  It has 
worked with every bean type to my satisfaction. 
I can't wait to try Kona.  I LOVE ROASTING.
Larry Williams
Wallace CA
-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.17.14/658 - Release Date: 1/29/2007

48) From: Mike Chester
Looking on eBay, I found this new roaster.  I know nothing about it.  I am just putting it up for discussion.  Any thoughts.  I have bought other items from this vendor, so I don't think that it is a scam.
Mike Chester
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49) From: Ira
At 10:59 AM 9/29/2008, you wrote:
<Snip>
It's turned by hand and it gets its heat from a gas stove and there's 
no thermometer.  Also the crank is on the back so you'd need to face 
the cooling tray away from you and you'd best have a really good 
exhaust fan above the stove or a real understanding wife.
It seems like it should work and if you have enough burner on your 
stove it should give you plenty of control. No pictures of how you 
take it apart for cleaning and it seems like a lot of money for a 
hand cranked machine.
And I always wonder about this, is the right answer for a small 
machine like that a miniature of a big machine?
Ira
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50) From: Scott Miller
Looks neat. Now, the turn by hand thing? HAH.. I'm waiting for the first
person who needs a new project to get one of these and attach a drill, a
motor, or some other device to get this thing tricked out... Shouldn't take
some creative list member too much to get this thing all ready for the
roaster gallery.
cheers,
Scott
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51) From: Les
You can get the basic Hottop from Tom for less money and have a
quality roaster.    The Quality of that product from the pictures
sends off warning sirens!  I could say more, but I will stop with a
Buyer Beware!
Les
On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 11:26 AM, Ira  wrote:
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52) From: miKe mcKoffee
Agree it's a cute novel nifty keeno cool looking little guy but for about
the same price I'd be inclined to buy a Basic HotTop. No it can't do 1# but
will do two 1/2# batches no problem without having to turn it by hand the
entire roast OR supply and control a heat source OR manually cool the beans.
Then if you wanted a real commercial grade 1# roaster save up for a USRC
.5k.
OTOH it'd be fun to play with but wouldn't want it for serious home roasting
duties.
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffeehttp://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must">http://www.mcKonaKoffee.comURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Pacific Northwest Gathering VIIhttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/">http://home.comcast.net/~mckona/PNWGVII.htmSweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/
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53) From: miKe mcKoffee
Interesting, my post saying basically the same thing went out minutes after
yours!
miKe 
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54) From: Tom Ulmer
Polish it up a bit and make it available in the U.S. at $119-$139 it might
work.

55) From: Les
Mike,
I think we have traveled the same path for awhile!
Les
On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 12:47 PM, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
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56) From: Alchemist John
Agreed - but $849....Bahahahaha.
It is pretty, but not that pretty.
At 12:49 PM 9/29/2008, you wrote:
<Snip>
John Nanci
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting , Hand Grinding, Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.chocolatealchemy.com/Homeroast mailing list
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57) From: Demian Ebert
I agree with what Les and MiKe said. Hand crank at that price? No thank you.
Not only that, but the description is so poorly written that all my warning
flags went up.
Demian
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58) From: Edward Bourgeois
Pretty uneven roast and some tipping. Think doing a pound would be
pushing it. But it's always nice to see another attempt.
Ed B.
On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 1:59 PM, Mike Chester  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Ed Bourgeois aka farmroast
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59) From: Coffee
I would worry about the "send your $800 to El Salvador and we'll build  
one for you and ship it within 30 days" part..
-Peter
On Sep 29, 2008, at 7:09 PM, Demian Ebert wrote:
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60) From: John Despres
Yeah, what Tom said. Maybe add that motor and one or two heating =
elements, add some insulation and an air intake. A chimney would be =
nice, too.
But not for that much money. Sheesh!
It is kinda pretty, though.
I just thrift store bought a Stir Crazy for $4.00. Now that's a pretty =
good deal.
John
Tom Ulmer wrote:
<Snip>
ms
<Snip>
W0
<Snip>
A1209%
<Snip>
e.
<Snip>
e.com
<Snip>
e.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
<Snip>
<Snip>
-- =
John A C Despres
Hug your kids
616.437.9182
Scene It All Productions 
JDís Coffee Provoked Ramblings =
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61) From: John Monteleone
I'd like to get a new roaster. I've been roasting with my Behmor for 3 years and it's been great. Love the results. But I'd really like to learn about the roasting process and would like a more manual machine. Or least one where I can determine all or most of the variables of the roast.  From the looks of it, it seems likes that leaves me with either one of the Hoptops or the Quest.  Can anyone comment on those machines or recommend another roaster. 
Thanks
John
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62) From: Hank Perkins
I have had both an both will roast great coffee.  The Hoptop I will roast a larger volume of beans, the Quest is completely manual.  My Hoptop was a first generation I rebuilt twice.  I was looking at a large volume of parts for the 3rd rebuild (~$500) and decided to go a different route.  My roast volume had decreased at this time so I ordered the Quest.  It is pure manual.  About the largest quantity of beans you can roast in one is 200g. It does the best with a volume of about 125-150g.  There are temp loggers and S/W available that will let you track and accurately reproduce most any roast profile you desire.  Good Luck. 
Sent from my iPhone
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63) From: Seth Grandeau
Can someone quantify how much better the end results are with a more manual
roaster?  I've also been using a Behmor, for the last 5 years.  I just
replaced the motor, so not looking to ditch the machine, but I'm curious
about what I'm missing.  I know I "should" want to have full control of my
roast profiles, but I've never had a comparison to say that I would like
the taste of the final coffee better, if only I could do XXX during the
roasting cycle.
-Seth
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64) From: Barry Luterman
I had a Hottop for years and loved it. When it started to need repairs I
bought a Quest. I too wanted a more hands on experience. I really like the
Quest. It performs better than the Hottop and allows for more control over
the roast. In addition, The Quest roasts well in my garage in the winter
down to about 40 degrees F. The Hottop did not do as well when the ambient
temperature dropped below 50. However, Hottop should be coming out with
their larger capacity model soon. You might want to wait and see what they
are offering before making a purchase. Both are excellent roasters
On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 11:25 PM, John Monteleone
wrote:
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65) From: John Nanci
No.
Seriously, it a personal taste, and subjective, the antithesis of 
'quantify'.  And I totally go by the adage of 'if it isn't broken, 
don't fix it'.
John
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66) From: John Nanci
Have you considered modifying so you have complete control?   A 
little warranty void modification and a variac and you have a full 
control roaster.
At 11:25 PM 5/7/2013, you wrote:
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67) From: Barry Luterman
The best comparison I can think of would be stew made in a crock-pot (one
button machines) and stew made from scratch in a pot on top of the stove
(Quest).
On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 7:22 AM, Seth Grandeau  wrote:
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68) From: gin powell
depends on your budget and how much you roast.
gp
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69) From: John Monteleone
I roast at least once a week.  And I assume the Hoptop and Quest will last
for some time.  So I'd be willing to pay for a Quest if I thought it would
last and that I would learn more about the nuances of coffee roasting.
 Like someone said before, my I love the results of my Behmor.  It's not
about quality so much, but the desire to further my interest in roasting.
On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 10:06 AM, gin powell  wrote:
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70) From: John Monteleone
I read somewhere that the Quest is good if your roasting multiple batches
at a time.  Do you find that to be true.  What if you only roasted two
batches at a time.  Or even just one batch. Is it too much machine for that
little roasting.
John
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71) From: Seth Grandeau
I guess what I was looking for is has anyone roasted the same coffee in
both machines or is anyone finding that, in general, they can better bring
out certain aspects (brightness, floral notes, chocolate-ness,
all-of-the-above).  I love home roasting, but the aspect I love is the
variation in small farm coffees, having different terroir.  I've never
really been excited about the specifics of roasting, other than to be able
to tell when my coffee has gone through first crack (damn you, Decaf!).
 I've never even tried roasting the same coffee on different programs, I
simply pick the program that seems right for the bean and go.
On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 1:06 PM, gin powell  wrote:
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72) From: sci
I have a Quest M3 for two years now. LOVE IT! Had a Behmor. Hated it. Sold
it. Have IR2. It's ok.
My Quest is full manual and very responsive to tiny inputs with its analog
controls. You set it at 78% of its heat capacity, and it outputs 78%, none
of that on/off cycling like the Behmore. Ditto for fan.
I can roast up to 300g batches fine, but I did add a thermal blanket around
the drum. It detracts from appearance somewhat, but it makes the Quest
perform much better and consistently (and saves a little juice), whether in
cold or warm conditions.
The build quality of the Quest is top notch, very solid.
You will want to add a bean temp prob and perhaps an ET prob. With that you
can get the results you want, but it is also more hands on. With my IR2, I
have little control, but can walk away for a couple of minutes.
Hope that helps,
Ivan
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73) From: Josh Housh
Great discussion thread folks, I think the original question has been a bit
buried though.  It wasn't 'which is the best drum-style home roaster?'.  I
am lucky enough to have roasted on many of the home roasters as well as
larger shop roasters but am by no means an expert. Most of you have more
roasting experience than I.  The thing that strikes me as different about
the "cup quality" of the same coffee roasted on 7 differerent machines is
the level/intensity of sweetness.  I believe with more manual controls,
i.e. Probat/Quest/Hottop the roaster is able to use their skill, expertise,
and experience to coax the best cup quality possible out of the machine and
therefore the most sweetness (who on the list has ever tried to tone that
down?)  I'm a musician so to me this is like a classical pianist who can
play Bach like nobody's business on a piano but might be hardpressed to
sound great on a synthesizer. One instrument allows you to express the
depth of your talent (and reveal your limitations if you aren't that great)
the other allows you to sound killer even if you haven't practiced that
much but is difficult to really impress an audience with, sonically
speaking. OK, enough metaphor. If you are the kind of roaster that cares
enough to learn the nuances of each lot, desires to be a virtuoso just to
conquer that bean, and wants control/responsibilty the choices are clear;
if you are interested in pleasing the crowd, putting in minimal effort, and
drinking great coffee then grab a popper, a skillet, a Behmor and have at
it. Sometimes the addage 'you get what you pay for' is apt.
On Wednesday, May 8, 2013, sci wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Joshua Housh
Sweet Maria's Coffee/Coffee Shrub
1115 21st St.
Oakland, CA 94607
510-628-0992 (office)
510-277-2747 (cell)
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74) From: sci
Ok, here's my general observation of various roast methods and the
characteristics they impart to the bean.
Quest is the great for whatever you want to acheive. And yes, back-to-back
roasts are easy as pie. I have done 8 in a row. You want short quick ramp
and finish roasts for brightness, good. You want slow ramp and long roasts
for espresso and lowered acid, good. You want anything in between, good.
You get convection heat galore and conduction. Really, the variables are
nigh infinite with heat ramp, convection ramps via fan, batch sizes, and
cooling speeds. Quest, like Hottop, gets beans OUT of the roaster
immediately for cooling, and this helps beans retain a snappy flavor, not a
baked or dullish flavor (one more reason I don't like the Behmor).
IR2 and poppers (or airguns) are very fast, and make very bright roasts,
mostly best for lighter roasts. Nearly pure convection heat.
Whirley pop, duller roasts and lots of problems. I never do this anymore.
All conduction heat, bad.
Genecafe and Hottop, no experience with them, but I hear good things about
the latter for getting the widest range of roast characteristics like Quest.
Behmore, meh. Ok, but roasts can be dullish too. Too much pure radiant heat
and not enough convection or conduction heat. I did find this unit made
great long roasts for espresso.
IMHO, the homeroaster can find no better high-end off-the-shelf roaster
than the Quest or the Hottop.
FWIW,
Ivan
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75) From: Dhananjaya
I'm sure my palate is not as educated as most of you, but I've been doing 300g roasts in my Quest loading at 210c on the avg @ 9
amps, backing off to 7.5 at 1st crack, and been getting excellent roasts (for me, at least as good as my old HotTop). Roasts are
quite even, except where expected because of the particular bean.
I tend to do City+ roasts, no 2nd crack, or occasionally just into.
Has anybody else tried and gotten bad roasts to their opinion at this load range?

76) From: gin powell
John:
I have both roasters and love each...
The quest 3 is totally manual, period. You will learn or have crappy coffee
forever...
hahahha
The Hot Top is manual but there is an auto mode I can use and I do a lot of
the time, at least a profile I set.
either would be a great machine but if you want some auto go with the Hot
Top.
ginnyhttp://www.homeroasters.org/php/news.phpOn Wed, May 8, 2013 at 10:13 AM, John Monteleone
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77) From: gin powell
it is a great machine Ivan.
ginny
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78) From: Sheila Quinn
Well, if you really want to learn you can always try the heat gun/dog 
bowl method. It works GREAT!!! I did that for several years until I got 
a Behmor, and I had better results than I do now. Full control. Just got 
lazy...and it's too cold to sit outside and roast in the Minnesota 
winter. Hmmm...it's nice out today, so I may have to try it again myself!
Sheila
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79) From: Sheila Quinn
Or, if you have a good vent over your stove that sucks everything 
outside, you can roast in a wok on the stove. Keep stirring with a 
wooden spoon. Don't use non-stick, though. I used to do that quite a bit 
too.
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80) From: Edward Bourgeois
I agree, was pretty impressed when manual, but you have to do it in private
without chatting about it online. Finally had a chance to chat with joe at
scaa boston. The only thing I couldn't easily try that I wanted to was to
lower the floor about an inch,
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Cropster
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81) From: gin powell
taste is a huge factor here Ivan, maybe yours is more refined then mine.
I think any roasting method is great and will/can produce excellent
results. it is fresh remember...
please do not dismiss other/less expensive methods of roasting. we all
cannot afford a 900.00 roaster.
the nae is fresh not how much the roaster cost.
ginny
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82) From: Phil Palmintere
I have a question on how you actually use your Quest.  I have a Gene Cafť
but I'm thinking of buying a Quest.
I read from the reviews it is a good roaster to do many batches in one
session, one right after another.  I find myself wondering if my own style
just doesn't line up with that.  With my Gene Cafť, I typically do one or
two batches in a session and that's it.  =
If I only want to do one or two batches every couple of weeks, is the Quest
not suited for that usage style?
Thanks
Phil

83) From: Barry Luterman
You can use it either continuously or occasionally. Even if you don't
usually do roast after roast it is nice to have that capability. Especially
around the holidays
On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 8:22 AM, Phil Palmintere
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84) From: Frank Parth
I also went to a Quest and wouldn't look back. The cost was much higher than the others, but as some have pointed out you have a lot of control over the roast. Back to back roasts are not a problem. If you want digital readout, pick up the Artisan software (athttp://code.google.com/p/artisan/) and a good probe and you can watch the ramp as it happens and make fine adjustments. 
Frank Parth
On May 8, 2013, at 9:13 PM, John Monteleone  wrote:
<Snip>
Frank R. Parth, MS, MSSM, MBA, PMP
Project Management Institute Board of Directors 2010-2012
CEO/President - Project Auditors LLC
fparth
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85) From: Hank Perkins
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86) From: peter zulkowski
Have been away for a while, and I notice SM does not sell Quest anymore. If
you can tell me best place to get one please email me off line
Peterz5743
On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 12:43 PM, Hank Perkins wrote:
<Snip>
ne
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as
<Snip>
mariascoffee.com
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a>
<Snip>
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87) From: Barry Luterman
http://www.coffeeshrub.com/shrub/content/questThis is also SM
Off to do 6 roasts in a row
2 lbs for my daughter and a pound for me
On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 10:45 AM, peter zulkowski wro=
te:
<Snip>
If
<Snip>
ng
<Snip>
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mariascoffee.com
<Snip>
mariascoffee.com
<Snip>
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a>
<Snip>
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88) From: Josh Housh
SM has never sold them, Coffee Shrub does. Although I believe we are out of
stock at the moment.
On Saturday, May 11, 2013, peter zulkowski wrote:
<Snip>
If
<Snip>
ascript:;>
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ng
<Snip>
ne
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mariascoffee.com
<Snip>
mariascoffee.com
<Snip>
-- =
Joshua Housh
Sweet Maria's Coffee/Coffee Shrub
1115 21st St.
Oakland, CA 94607
510-628-0992 (office)
510-277-2747 (cell)
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89) From: gin powell
I bought my Quest 3 from SWEET MARIA...
Phil, roast the way you want. simply because you can roast multiple roasts
does not mean you must.
roast what you want when you want and how you want.
remember some people want to roast large amounts and do not want to buy a
big roaster or us a BBQ drum outside,
I do not do tons of back to back roasting...
your Quest 3 will not suffer is you only roast once a month.
ginny
On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 11:06 AM, Josh Housh wro=
te:
<Snip>
of
<Snip>
r,
<Snip>
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90) From: Bob Hazen
I've been using a Behmor for about 5 years.  I like the larger batch 
capability as I roast weekly.  I confess, the wonderment of home roast has 
subsided and it has become a chore.  (take a deep breath, fellow 
homeroasters!)  It's a necessary chore to be sure - I have no intent to 
descend into commercial coffee.
With that said, I'm interested in better profile control than I get with the 
Behmor.  The Quest and Hottop have been non-starters due to batch size.  So 
here I remain, waiting for another large-batch (home) roaster to show up.
Bob

91) From: Hank Perkins
Hold onto your checkbook. Before I bought the Quest I went so far to get pricing on a small shop roaster.  Back then $5000 and then there is installation. Venting and gas.  You will find a significant improvement in the roast quality with the quest. One thing I determined in my search, 110VAC can only do so much and that's what you get with the quest.  I would not buy a 1 pound roaster that roasted using 110VAC.  The issue with 220 is safety.  I believe the reason the big Hoptop has not hit the market yet is specifically these reasons.  In my experience with th Behmor, it didnt get hot. Enough and i couldnt shut down the roast fast enough.  Anyway, good luck.
Sent from my iPhone
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92) From: Edward Bourgeois
+1 Hank
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93) From: Rich
What is this supposed "safety" issue with 220vAC? It is quite common in 
Europe and Asia as common wall plug power. There is no technical reason 
that something like the Quest can not be scaled up to roast 1 to 1.5lb 
batches. Most likely the reason there are none available is the 
perceived or real lack of demand.
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94) From: sci
This 110v issue is why I put a thermal blanket (insulation) on my Quest. I
feel that should have been standard on the unit, but not a deal breaker. It
is inexpensive to do it and very easy. It preheats very fast now, retains
heat better, and has no problem roasting 300g at any ambient temp. I use a
Kill-o-watt meter and can roast 4-5 batches with 1 kilowatt, and the meter
allows me to set the power at precise watt output levels. Even doing 300g
batches, I never go above 75% of the heat output capacity of the Quest.
Theoretically, I could try bigger batches, but they would probably go
longer. It is really a locomotive doing back-to-back roasts with little
delay in between.
 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: Hank Perkins 
To: "A list to discuss home coffee roasting. There are rules for this
        list,   available athttp://www.sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html"        
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] New roaster
Message-ID: <306C5D75-8A0B-42A1-8D6C-BF06ED27C6CC>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=us-ascii
Hold onto your checkbook. Before I bought the Quest I went so far to get
pricing on a small shop roaster.  Back then $5000 and then there is
installation. Venting and gas.  You will find a significant improvement in
the roast quality with the quest. One thing I determined in my search,
110VAC can only do so much and that's what you get with the quest.  I would
not buy a 1 pound roaster that roasted using 110VAC.  The issue with 220 is
safety.  I believe the reason the big Hoptop has not hit the market yet is
specifically these reasons.  In my experience with th Behmor, it didnt get
hot. Enough and i couldnt shut down the roast fast enough.  Anyway, good
luck.
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95) From: Hank Perkins
The safety issue has to do with wireing. Most US homes have 2 220 outlets.  Dryer and stove.  The issue cues in with how a homeowner might choose to power the roaster.  Extension cord?  What if this extension cord has a nick in it, gets wet?   In the US 220 will kill you dead due to the amperage carried on these circuits.  Then there is the fire issue (why the quest is not UL rated, no safety cut offs).  It's a liability issue.    
Sent from my iPhone
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96) From: Rich
More people die from contact with 115vAC than 220vAC world wide. The 
amperage a person draws is a function of their resistance, nominally 
about 5k ohm. A cross body current flow between 0.1A and 1.0A produces 
the highest probability of inducing heart fibrillation and death with 
50/60 Hz power. Over 1A results in a violent uncontrolled muscular 
contraction that usually separates the shock victim from the source.
Running any appliance on defective, or overloaded wiring is foolish and 
I will not even consider assuming any responsibility or inconvenience 
for people who can neither read, comprehend or follow instructions. This 
is why the first 12 or so pages of any electrical or mechanical device 
is full of what and how info so the manufacturer and retailer may be 
semi-shielded from malicious torts.
The Quest is not approved because it was never submitted as getting 
product liability insurance for something the actually gets hot and is 
not an industrial appliance is impossible or cost prohibitive. No 
liability insurance the underwriters approval is of no value and it 
costs mush $$ to get that approval.
Low perceived demand and regulatory hurdles are why there is no consumer 
large capacity roaster.
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97) From: John Nanci
I feel rather like a shill here for Behmor, but am simply friends 
with Joe Behm.  With that, I would toss it out there that liability 
insurance and safety approvals are THE reason the Behmor is not 100% 
manual, and is often at the edge of hot enough.  It isn't because Joe 
could not build it that way - it's because the powers at be would not 
allow it be be built and have approval, and without approvals (ETL in 
it's case) no insurance carrier would carry it.
As it is, I'm was amazed the Quest was released without any kind of 
insurance coverage.  Hell of a risk for Tom it seems.  Does anyone 
know if that is still the case?
John
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98) From: Dennis True
+1 John
I met Joe back in the day and safety was the motivating factor for the
current design... (you cant trust an idiot to not burn the house down)
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99) From: Hank Perkins
I had this very conversation with either Tom or Maria when they initially began carrying the Quest. This is why the roaster is ONLY available via their wholesale site and not sweetmarinas.com.  When I ordered mine I was told they may not offer it very long. They are concerned about the liabilities.  Early on I considered buying 2 in case they became unavailable. I haven't done this yet.  As a note, I have been a SW customer for 12 years or so. Tom and Maria are really great people and are driven to provide their customers the best product possible. I have bought coffee from other sources from time to time. Noting has even come close. 
Sent from my iPhone
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100) From: Terry Mcvay
This 110v issue is why I put a thermal blanket (insulation) on my Quest.
[SCI]
I have been a long-time fan of my RK Drum. The one thing I would like to
add, and have had trouble finding is a thermal blanket for the BBQ body.
Where did you get yours?
Terry
[formerly Kona, Hawaii, now Vancouver Wa.]
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101) From: Ira
Hello Dennis,
Sunday, May 12, 2013, 12:15 PM, you wrote:
<Snip>
And yet there are more than a few recommendations to run a Behmor with 3/4 or 1/2 of the recommended weight of coffee.  I'm sure that 10 ounces of coffee at P1-B-1lb stretched to 20:30 is in the range of consistent or at least more than the occasional fire if ignored and I'd guess that most of the home machines can be persuaded similarly. 
Maybe all coffee roaster boxes should just have the phrase "This machine will burn your house down if not used properly" prominently displayed in large red letters on the outside. It really is the users fault if it goes wrong and the liability should not fall on the manufacturer.  
Has anyone ever successfully sued the manufacturer of a table saw for cutting off a finger or of a stove top for starting a fire when forgetting to turn down the heat when answering the phone? 
-- Ira
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102) From: sci
Terry: I fabricated it out of high temp insulation from McMaster-Carr. Not
hard to do actually.
Another thing about the Quest and circuitry loads I've noticed is this: I
plug all kinds of things into my Kill o Watt meter to see  what's going on.
My IR2, the Behmor, microwave, even my toaster draw heavy wattage, like
1500+ watts (or in the 15A range). But the Quest draws a steady 900-1000
watts at my personal highest setting for a 300g load (only about 75% of max
power). One reason is that the analog nature of the Quest. Other appliances
cycle on and off at 100% power, like a microwave. This irritates me. If I
want 50% heat, I don't want 100% power on for half of the time. So the
gentle load the Quest pulls on a circuit is nice and the steady heat is a
blessing to me.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: "Terry Mcvay" 
To: "'A list to discuss home coffee roasting. There are rules for this
        list,   available athttp://www.sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html'"        
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] New Roaster
Message-ID: <000f01ce4f8c$78429bd0$
68c7d370$@org>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"
This 110v issue is why I put a thermal blanket (insulation) on my Quest.
[SCI]
I have been a long-time fan of my RK Drum. The one thing I would like to
add, and have had trouble finding is a thermal blanket for the BBQ body.
Where did you get yours?
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103) From: John Nanci
Here here Ira.  Too true on the liability.  Sadly, people may not 
have to won a lawsuit against the manufacturer, but that does not 
mean the manufacturer has not had $10000's of dollars in legal fees 
defending against said suits, or had their insurance rates quadrupled 
because they were suddenly 'high risk'.  I wish I understood what 
makes some people sue happy for certain appliances and not others.
John
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104) From: Edward Bourgeois
Why are candles still legal with over 15,000 reported fires a year? Geeez I
used to make candles and give them as gifts as a kid. Guess I was lucky as
the manufacturer nothing bad ever happened.
On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 2:13 PM, Ira  wrote:
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-- 
Ed Bourgeois
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105) From: Rich
The problem is that the courts do not see it that way and even if the 
user signs and notarizes a statement accepting all liability for use of 
a product they still win in court no matter how ignorant their actions 
were. There are literally thousands upon thousands of examples.
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106) From: Seth Grandeau
I'm suddenly reminded of the lady who sued McDonalds for millions, when she
spilled hot coffee on herself.
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107) From: John Nanci
Well, this could be a can of worms.
Actually, iirc, she asked for about $20,000 to cover an 8 day stint 
in the hospital to treat her third degree burns caused by 190 F 
coffee (from coffee that was actually heated up to this temperature, 
but brewed colder).  McDonalds offered less than $1000 and a jury 
awarded the millions - she did not sue for it, nor receive it.  It 
was reduced to something like $600K.  But it was put so high 
initially because over the span of 10 years, McD had over 700 
lawsuits for burns under their belt.
I can't bring myself to see this quite the same, but do see why you 
might have it come to mind.
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108) From: Mike Chester
John,
Thanks for explaining the true story. I already knew the facts, but it needs 
to repeated often, though I doubt that many opinions will be changed as most 
people don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.
The Internet is full of urban legends about "frivolous lawsuits." Some have 
a small grain of truth, and much exaggeration; others are pure bovine scat.
I am reminded of another case where Ford Motor Company found that a new car 
design (I think it was the Pinto, but am not sure) that was ready to go into 
production, when struck from the rear, had the habit of spewing burning 
gasoline into the passenger compartment causing a very painful death for all 
within the car. Their bean counters figured out how many times this would 
happen and the probable payouts from the resulting wrongful death lawsuits 
from the families of the "crispy critters" and decided that it would cost 
less to pay the lawsuits than to re-design the car safely, so they sold the 
car knowing that there would be many innocent deaths, but they saved money.
Mike Chester

109) From: Seth Grandeau
The jury in the McDonalds case awarded the woman $2.7 million.  The judge
lowered it to $600,000 and they settled for something less, to avoid
McDonald's appealing the verdict.  But, in my opinion, the case was
frivolous, even at the $20k level.  The woman placed a hot cup of coffee
between her legs, in a car, then spilled it on herself.  The coffee was
hot, but when is the last time anyone on this list brewed coffee at less
than 190 degrees.  Personal responsibility was trumped by deep pockets.
And as to the Ford Pinto case, I happened to have done a paper on it back
in college.  The true story is, the Pinto met the safety standards of the
day.  The gov't had announced that they would be raising the rear impact
standard, so Ford tested at the new, higher speed and found the flaming
explosion problem.    Since they met the standard of the day, they did the
cost/benefit analysis on implementing the fix immediately, at a cost of
something like $10 per car.  The value of a human life that they used was
$100,000.  Now that sounds pretty callous, but you need to understand that
this is the same value that the US gov't uses in evaluating highway safety
projects, and that's where they took the number from.  While this mode of
vehicular death is gruesome  the fact is, the real life safety statistics
for the Pinto were no worse than other small cars in it's category.  I
believe it was actually a little safer.  There are, in fact, many things
that could improve safety for around $10, but if we fix them all, there
would not be affordable cars to buy.  Ford chose where they did, they met
all gov't standards, and they lost the case, once the cost benefit study
was made public.
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110) From: Rich
FORD actually won the PINTO case on an appeal as the owners had lost the 
gas cap and had a rag stuffed into the filler. As you stated the car met 
the existing safety standards and was not the only car on the road at 
that time with a tank sticking up in the air in back. I saw many Pintos 
with a shop rag sticking in the filler as it was very easy to lose the 
gas cap and they were expensive to replace as they were color matched to 
the car. I remember looking at the Pinto the first year it hit the 
market and opining at the time that the tank looked vulnerable. I was 
driving a 1938 MG TA at the time which also had the tank between the 
body and spare on the back.
The major fallout from the McDonalds hot coffee case is it is near 
impossible to buy a cup of coffee that is much above bath water temperature.
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111) From: Seth Grandeau
Fun fact...the cup of McDonald's coffee cost 49 cents, back in 1994.
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112) From: Frank Parth
On May 13, 2013, at 9:13 PM, Ira  wrote:
<Snip>
Ira,
I don't know about a stove top fire leading to a lawsuit, but for the table saw cutting off a finger, there was a successful lawsuit last year (IIRC) regarding this. There is technology available for table saws to come to an instant stop if they sense a hand or a finger, and there's a legislative push to make the technology mandatory for all table saws.
Frank Parth
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113) From: sci
Frank,
What are a some of the best thermometers to use with the Artisan software?
I see the list, but it is confusing to figure out which ones interface with
the software best.
-Ivan
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: Frank Parth 
To: "A list to discuss home coffee roasting. There are rules for this
        list,   available athttp://www.sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html"        
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] New roaster
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I also went to a Quest and wouldn't look back. The cost was much higher
than the others, but as some have pointed out you have a lot of control
over the roast. Back to back roasts are not a problem. If you want digital
readout, pick up the Artisan software (athttp://code.google.com/p/artisan/)and a good probe and you can watch
the ramp as it happens and make fine
adjustments.
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114) From: Hank Perkins
I use an omega data logger and get the thermocouples from Eric Svendson at erics This is why you want a quest. 
Thanks,
Hank 
Sent from my iPhone
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115) From: John Monteleone
Hey Hank
What is it about that Quest that causes it to max out at 200 gram batches.
Would 225 (half pound) be out of the question.
Thanks
John
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116) From: Hank Perkins
Well you CAN roast 300 grams and I have. You need a digital heat gun need to have your unroasted beans up around 90 degrees before you dump them. You use the heat gun to supplement the roasters elements. Get a reducer tip for the gun and supplement the heat down the tryer hole. The roast time will lengthen and the flavor profile will decrease. I have roasted every step up to 300. For me the sweet spot is 190 grams but if I am after max flavor it is 125 grams. One thing you may love is how you can vary taste with by varying the load. 
Thanks,
Hank 
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117) From: Steve Hamm
And regarding new roasters...
I was about to pull the trigger on a basic Hottop. Sweet Maria's is out of
stock, so I went to the Hottop website to see what was up, and lo and
behold there is a new Hottop design on the way, in August or September. It
is supposed to  handle 1kg batches, and seems to be a nice design in a
number of ways, from what is said on the website. I like that they say they
merged the controls from the B and P models, I like the screen being
visible as you're looking at the beans roasting...
Has anyone on the list from Sweet Maria's seen this beast? Comments?
Needless to say, I'm not pulling the trigger until this comes out, I've
seen some reviews, and I find the price is near the current basic model
(hopefully). Now they just need to get this out before their revenue stream
dies.
--Steve
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118) From: Hank Perkins
After my experience I would be very concerned about roaster power and smoke. 1 kilo of coffee will put out an immense amount of smoke. 
Unless this roaster runs on 220VAC I would have concerns about adequate heat. 
Thanks,
Hank 
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119) From: sci
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2013 16:34:30 -0700
John,
A simple inexpensive mod to the Quest makes it perform well up to 300g
charges. Simply install a 1/2" thermal blanket around the drum. [Get
hi-temp insulation from McMaster Carr] This gives the unit a quick preheat,
and much better thermal performance in any environment. No need for heat
guns. The heat is there, you just have to retain it. I do 300g roasts in
around 15min, 225g (my standard) in about 12min, and 200g in the 10min
range. Even on the 300g batch, I don't run the heat wide-open, only about
75%.
Hope that helps.
Ivan
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: John Monteleone 
To: "A list to discuss home coffee roasting. There are rules for this
        list,   available athttp://www.sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html"        
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] New roaster
Message-ID:
        
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Hey Hank
What is it about that Quest that causes it to max out at 200 gram batches.
Would 225 (half pound) be out of the question.
Thanks
John
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120) From: Kristoffer Johansson
Which blanket is it that you use? I've looked at Mcmaster carr's site, 
but I there are so many different ones.
On 2013-06-08 20:10, sci wrote:
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121) From: Byron - Sweet Maria's Coffee
I had a chance to take a look at one at this year's SCAA show. The model I
saw was either a prototype or one of few so a lot of the details were still
unclear. The touch-screen controls looked intuitive and fun to use. It's
nice to know that there's a roasting machine on the horizon with a capacity
greater than any home roaster on the market right now.  Here's a link with
a little mention and a few photos.http://www.sweetmarias.com/library/weblog/new-coffee-gear-years-scaa-showOn Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 5:49 PM, Hank Perkins  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
*Byron Dote*
Sweet Maria's Coffee Inc.
1115 21st  Street
Oakland, CA 94607
510 628 0992 phone
510 628 0919 fax
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122) From: Barry Luterman
This is the one that worked for me
 19379K93 Ultra-High
Temperature Foil-Faced Insulation Strip, 1/2" Thick, 3" X 12' 1
rollMonday morning
13.87
per roll 13.87
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123) From: Hank Perkins
Byron,
When you get more info I would love to understand how this new HotTop
works.  Electrical specifications, venting, roast times...
As I have stated before, if this roaster runs on 110VAC I just don't see
how it can pull enough power to roast 1kg.
After owning a Quest for a couple of years I would love to roast on a gas
fired roaster.  It is now apparent why that is the only way to go.
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124) From: Hank Perkins
Barry,
Did the blanket change the flavor profile of the batches much?
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125) From: Barry Luterman
My profiles changed quite a bit for half pound roasts. But after reducing
heat and fan resulted in same taste and roast time with a faster warm up
time. Payback was longer cool down time between roasts. The real advantage
was the 300 gr roasts. I am able to do a 2 lb roast in 3 rather than 4
loads with faster warm -up time. For the 300 gr roasts your settings are
almost the same as for the half pound roasts and taste is the same. I am
really looking forward to being able to use the roaster in the winter in
the garage. Will probably hold it to half pound roasts in the winter. To
sum it up your parameters will have to be tweaked a bit. The taste will
then remain unchanged.
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126) From: Terry Mcvay
Thanks Barry, I have been looking for a heat retention approach for my 4-lb.
RK drum. Now if I can just find another 35K btu BBQ grill for under $100.
(had to leave mine back in Hawaii..)
Terry
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