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Topic: Triple Shot Tamping Techniques (50 msgs / 1196 lines)
1) From: ginny
Hi Bob,
hope you feel better.
I have tried the triple and frankly I would rather have a couple of great doubles...
They, to me, just never hit the mark.
ginny

2) From: ginny
I am going to try the 3's again...
I actually drink what I call a double double, I cram as much dust as I can into the portafilter to make it come out in 25/26 seconds. It took a while to figure out how much it is like 2 1/2 pulls from my mini but again it depends on the 
bean-o-choice on any given day.
The horse this morning was fantastic, I have never has as much blueberry (read any single flavor) come through and this is what got rested 8 days.
ginny

3) From: ginny
I know Brett:
but I use sharp chedder between each layer?!! beside that mine is lower case "double double"
different.
ginny

4) From: ginny
see Brett,
my FARMER'S Market double double is ok.
ginny ginny ginny

5) From: ginny
hell's bell's I am already in double trouble.
maybe I will be double double trouble at the Farmer's....
see solved, how easy life really is.
ginny

6) From: ginny
I remember that and well she should have been able to use her own name.
don't get me started I must head out to the Farmer's market and my soapbox needs to be rinsed off.
g

7) From: ginny
Les:
you are giving me too many options here...
what do you suggest is the best for my new one?
ginny

8) From: ginny
Dennis
you are welcome, welcome.
g

9) From: Bob Baker
I know there was a discussion here several months ago about
triple portafilters.  What was the concensus how to pull the
"perfect" shot with a triple?
Bob

10) From: Dennis Parham
well... Triples is all  I pull..... 99% of the time.....
How I tamp is this....
1. in my ROCKEY Doser I dose 2 times.... lay my convex stainless tamper 
on grounds and giggle down with no pressure accept from tamper....then 
I add a little pressure... about 5 lbs and lightly twist back and 
forth... to settle the grounds in their place....(tap tap on side) then 
I dose the rest, do the same technique as before accept finish it with 
about 30lbs the twist...tap pity tap tap...and do it one more time..... 
I can pull a beautiful, crema full, triple with the most beautiful dark 
golden color with some tiger stripes of chocolate heaven... hehe  2 oz. 
for triple ristretto or  2.5oz. I let it go until my cup runneth over!! 
hehe
Dennis Parham
On Feb 12, 2005, at 9:43 AM, Bob Baker wrote:
<Snip>

11) From: Dennis Parham
one more thing I forgot to add.... I sometimes switch to my flat 
stainless Steel tamper for finish tamping... havn't decided yet weather 
it is any better or worse... just hate to let it just sit there with no 
use...lol the theory is that with perfectly flat tamper..your dose will 
get a more even enfusion of hot water...
Dennis
On Feb 12, 2005, at 9:43 AM, Bob Baker wrote:
<Snip>

12) From: Ron_L
On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 09:43:14 -0600, Bob Baker  wrote:
<Snip>
I don't think I do anything different than I did with a double, except
for using more coffee, of course...
I overfill the basket, level it off with my precisely calibrated index
finger (patent pending), tamp lightly, tap the PF, than tamp and
polish.  Since I started using the bottomless PF, I have switched to a
NESW roll of the tamper (as suggested by Les, I think) for the final
tamp.  I have reduced channeling almost completely by doing the roll.
...ron

13) From: Bob Baker
Both my tampers make a concave puck.
I might have to get a flat one, I've been wanting
one of Les's nice wooden tampers.
Bob
On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 10:07:13 -0600, Dennis Parham   
wrote:
<Snip>

14) From: Bob Baker
Ron,
By the nesw you mean crunching down the puck at an angle in the 4 compass   
points,
so it basically crunches the edges better around the PF?
B
On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 10:07:43 -0600, Ron_L  wrote:
<Snip>

15) From: John Blumel
On Feb 12, 2005, at 11:12am, Bob Baker wrote:
<Snip>
Of course the theory of the convex tamper is that it helps prevent 
channeling around the sides of the puck by forcing the grounds out 
against the sides of the basket. I'm not sure if anyone has really done 
a thorough study comparing the two designs but Schomer changed his Ergo 
tamper design a while back from flat to convex for this reason.
John Blumel

16) From: Ron_L
On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 10:16:58 -0600, Bob Baker  wrote:
<Snip>
Sort of...  I roll the tamper at a slight angle in a compllete circle,
so it puts additional pressure all the way around, not just at the
compass points.  I couldn't think of a bettere way to describe it, so
I used NESW...
...ron

17) From: Dennis Parham
Gin, ya know... I did that too for a while... I tried the triples and 
went back to my doubles... I was burning through beans so fast  and all 
I had was a little poppery II and it became just too time consuming so 
back to my yummy double ristrettos.. but for me they were just not 
enough to sip...well.. then I modified my popper to accept more 
beans... that helped some but not enough to switch to the triple... and 
there was a learning curve with it..but shortly I had it down 
perfect... (I should do some research on how certain triple baskets 
perform)I now have an original Poppery and the Turbo Crazy 
Setup........
As for baskets again... I have not seen a ridgeless triple but that 
would be kewl.. however.. the one I have is almost totally flat bottom 
and strait sides and can hold 4 7gm doses from my rocky  28gms!! ... 
Conveniently  though, the line of the ridge is exactly where I want my 
finished tamped level to be... it is exactly 5mm from the screen to 
allow expansion of the beans when the hot water infuses them .... I 
make a lot of triple Americanos usually I have a triple shot and an 
Americano for Breakfast... then repeat as much as possible..lol
Now I pretty much stick to triples...
Dennis
On Feb 12, 2005, at 10:05 AM, ginny wrote:
<Snip>

18) From: Dennis Parham
yea... hey Les, do you ever add lead or maybe better.. stainlessSteel 
ball bearings or rod inside the wooden tampers?? for added weight?? I 
might have to talk to ya about that one!!  make it from ironwood with a 
metal core! then cap it with a beautiful Hawaiian flamed Koa tamping 
surface and ebony cap... :-D
Dennis
On Feb 12, 2005, at 10:12 AM, Bob Baker wrote:
<Snip>

19) From: Dennis Parham
well.... I think that it can be pulled with any tamper.... and for that 
reason.. I start with the convex to make sure it is all settled 
evenly... then sometimes if I am so inclined... and finish it with a 
level tamp... with the light twisting with the convex.. there will not 
be any hollow spots or channeling... but pros have all pulled with 
flats as anyone with a convex... so..maybe there really needs to be 
some more study hu? Like I said... I havnt decided if I can see any 
difference...maybe the shape of your basket would also predict which is 
better... since I only use 1 double and 1 triple basket.. there is not 
much testing I can do... but I would be curious... as for now..my shots 
as SPOT ON!
Dennis Parham
On Feb 12, 2005, at 10:20 AM, John Blumel wrote:
<Snip>

20) From: Angelo
Not to sound too cynical, but it would help sales to have people buy a "new 
and improved" model, even though they have one that works perfectly fine. 
GAS (Gear Acquisition Syndrome) attacks seems to be quite strong among 
cafeholics.
A.
<Snip>

21) From: Dennis Parham
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Gin, that sounds kewl! let us know how the triples turn out! as for the 
Horse.. I pound down the Ethiopian Harar FT Organic and I have noticed 
that i really have to go right to 2nd crack and cool fast! and DAMN 
BLUEBERRY HEAVEN!!  by the way... that is my fav fruit... we went 
blueberry gathering last year and cam back with about 20 gallons of 
them!!!!!  MMMM blueberry scones with a brown sugar cinnamon topping 
made from scratch with blueberry home made jelly with blueberry/honey 
butter on my scone and an triple of Harar!! OH YEA!!  lol BTW ... Im 
even wearing a Blueberry shirt!!  hehehe or was that Burberry - London 
....lol
Dressing in fashion....
Dennis Parham
On Feb 12, 2005, at 10:46 AM, ginny wrote:
<Snip>
--Apple-Mail-9-1071401861
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Gin, that sounds kewl! let us know how the triples turn out! as for
the Horse.. I pound down the Ethiopian Harar FT Organic and I have
noticed that i really have to go right to 2nd crack and cool fast! and
DAMN BLUEBERRY HEAVEN!!  by the way... that is my fav fruit... we went
blueberry gathering last year and cam back with about 20 gallons of
them!!!!!  MMMM blueberry scones with a brown sugar cinnamon topping
made from scratch with blueberry home made jelly with blueberry/honey
butter on my scone and an triple of Harar!! OH YEA!!  lol BTW ... Im
even wearing a Blueberry shirt!!  hehehe or was that
Burberry - London ....lol 
Dressing in fashion....
Dennis Parham  
On Feb 12, 2005, at 10:46 AM, ginny wrote:
I am going to try the 3's again...
I actually drink what I call a double double, I cram as much dust as I
can into the portafilter to make it come out in 25/26 seconds. It took
a while to figure out how much it is like 2 1/2 pulls from my mini but
again it depends on the 
bean-o-choice on any given day.
The horse this morning was fantastic, I have never has as much
blueberry (read any single flavor) come through and this is what got
rested 8 days.
ginny

22) From: Brett Mason
Ginny,
I can't believe you would go there.
"Double Double" is a trademark of In-N-Out, and is required eating
when you're in Southern  California.  Obviously you are taking
someone's hard earnedmoney by referring to your espresso as a double
double.  In-N-Out loses business with every shot you pull.  I do think
you probably enjoy your esproesso more because of the association with
fine dining, so you are infringing yet again on In-N-Out's staked
domain.
Here's a link just for reference:http://www.in-n-out.com/I'm thinkin it would make a fine lunch.  Just as soon as I get done
roasting my Double Quarter Pounder of Colombia Supremo.... in my
Whopper WOK!
Brett
On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 08:46:44 -0800 (GMT-08:00), ginny
 wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Regards,
Brett Mason
 HomeRoast
      __]_
   _(( )_  Please don't spill the coffee!

23) From: Pecan Jim Gundlach
On Feb 12, 2005, at 10:20 AM, John Blumel wrote:
<Snip>
If someone out there has both and a crotchless portafilter, they could 
rather easily collect the data since it makes channels highly visible.  
Maybe I need to write Les and see if he has any more exceptional wood 
with which to make me a convex.
     Jim gundlach

24) From: Pecan Jim Gundlach
On Feb 12, 2005, at 10:23 AM, Dennis Parham wrote:
<Snip>
One reason I gave up on the little appliances for roasting.   I want my 
roasting to support my brewing habits, not the other way around.
      Jim Gundlach

25) From: Brett Mason
A habit is a wunnerful thing to feed.
Same here - why I roast in a WOK  (The Whopper actually)
Brett
On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 11:02:48 -0600, Pecan Jim Gundlach
 wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Regards,
Brett Mason
 HomeRoast
      __]_
   _(( )_  Please don't spill the coffee!

26) From: John Blumel
On Feb 12, 2005, at 12:00pm, Brett Mason wrote:
<Snip>
Trademarks are only infringed if you use them for commercial gain. 
That's why you can use the word 'google' as a verb without 
infringement.
John Blumel

27) From: John Blumel
On Feb 12, 2005, at 12:04pm, ginny wrote:
<Snip>
Variations in case are actually irrelevant in trademarks.
John Blumel

28) From: John Blumel
On Feb 12, 2005, at 12:25pm, ginny wrote:
<Snip>
If you call it that at home, you're fine. If you call it that at the 
farmer's market, you're in trouble, double double trouble.
John Blumel

29) From: Bob Baker
Only if someone has the time and $$ to go after you.
Some companies like starbucks will very stongly go after anyone
infringing on their name, but they lost on in little Astoria, Or
over a small coffee shop that is still called "SamBucks", owners
name is Samantha Bucks, anyway she got help from people to fight
the big corporation and got to keep using her own name.
Bob
On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 12:32:57 -0500, John Blumel   
wrote:
<Snip>

30) From: Les
Dennis,
You have not been on my website lately.  I make almost all of my
tampers now with a bismuth alloy core.  Non-toxic,  the same stuff
that goes in a Pepto-Bismol!  The heaviest stable metal and it is
denser than lead!   I have an alloy that melts at 280 degrees so it
doesn't hurt the wood!   My tampers (Thor Hammer version) weigh as
much as a Reg!  Koa is too soft for the bottom of a tamper.  I will
stick with Blackwood Rosewood or Lignum Vitae!  Speaking of Koa, I
have some very nice Koa drying right now.  It should be ready in the
fall for tampers.  Back to the topic.  I don't do anything different
with a triple basket than what I do with a double.  What I have found
is that I get a lot more volume from the triple basket, so getting a 2
oz ristretto is easy.  I wonder if you aren't crotchless if there is
too much restriction in the PF to take advantage of the triple basket?
On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 10:29:28 -0600, Dennis Parham  wrote:
<Snip>

31) From: Les
Ginny,
I would go core weighted with a flat or convex base, your choice!
Les
On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 10:23:22 -0800 (GMT-08:00), ginny
 wrote:
<Snip>

32) From: Chris Tacy
On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 11:20:19 -0500, John Blumel
 wrote:
<Snip>
he actually changed the design for better particle distribution within
the basket, which results in decreased odds of  channeling.http://www.lucidcafe.com/cafeforum/schomertable21.html-- 
**********************************
Chris Tacy

33) From: Chris Tacy
On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 11:00:51 -0600, Pecan Jim Gundlach
 wrote:
<Snip>
done.
no difference when it comes to channeling (for me).
-- 
**********************************
Chris Tacy

34) From: Chris Tacy
for what it's worth, my triple technique...
1 - wipe basket dry and clean
2 - grind and dose
3 - distribute with the 'stockfleths move' as used by T Wendelboe et al
4 - tamp lightly once to preserve distribution (slight twist to release tamper)
5 - lift portafilter from counter, tap very lightly once to knock
grounds from edge of basket
6 - tamp with 35lbs of pressure, finishing with an unweighted 360 degree polish
7 - flip portafilter upside down to remove any loose grounds
8 - extract 2.25oz in 28 seconds
(three group Mistral, Mazzer Robur, Stumptown Hairbender, LM triple
basket, 58mm Ergo tamper, 200F, 9BAR)
-- 
**********************************
Chris Tacy

35) From: John Blumel
On Feb 12, 2005, at 5:20pm, Chris Tacy wrote:
<Snip>
Well, 'particle distribution' is a somewhat vague term. Has he ever 
written about this in more detail?
John Blumel

36) From: Dennis Parham
Les! im going to look now! hehe
Dennis
On Feb 12, 2005, at 12:17 PM, Les wrote:
<Snip>

37) From: Dennis Parham
For me, I am not crotchless and my triples are great!! however... I did 
take off all my spouts !! it works GREAT! If the Pasquini Livias 
Portafilters were a touch more generic, I would totally decrotch mine.. 
but sheesh... at 85$ a pop and proprietary design.... well.. that kinda 
bites... I love my triple ristrettos!!!  :-))
BTW!  we gonna be a tawkin about a flamed KOA Tamper!!  )))) hehehe
Dennis
On Feb 12, 2005, at 12:17 PM, Les wrote:
<Snip>

38) From: Les
I made one of Barbara G's Pasquini PFs crotchless in less than 2 min. 
Dr. Crema specializes in crotchectomys!.
Les
On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 19:37:36 -0600, Dennis Parham  wrote:
<Snip>

39) From: Brett Mason
Lorena Bobbitt thoughts cross my mind and I squeeze my knees together
in nightmarish fear...
On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 19:23:16 -0800, Les  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Regards,
Brett Mason
 HomeRoast
      __]_
   _(( )_  Please don't spill the coffee!

40) From: Les
Last I heard she was dating OJ.
Les
On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 21:04:26 -0800, Brett Mason  wrote:
<Snip>

41) From: Steven Dover
Yeah...I do that too. Then a hard parallel/straight down tamp finished by a
lighter twist/polish of the top...  As far as shot size goes - I make what
the machine seems to work best with, 3 - 7 gram spoons { a *$ espresso
spoon, don't know exactly what the weight is} to a 2 1/2 oz shot. - Steve D.

42) From: R.N.Kyle
I have one on Les's weighted tampers, I really like it.
Rk

43) From: AlChemist John
Les, blessed Dr. Crema that he is, just bestowed on me a triple basket - 
set in a crotchless, cocobola handled PF - Wow, thank you.  Now, I need to 
work out how to use it.   I re-read this thread (sadly noting it 
degenerated in the middle).  Didn't get me much of anywhere.
I have tried one shot and it almost choked - 25 g coffee, ground like my 
double shots would be - Theory says that since I ride the choking edge for 
my doubles, more depth would cause higher pressure and choke the machine - 
well it did.  Do any of you triple pullers grind slightly courser for 
triples vs doubles?  Or did I just get an odd shot?
Sometime around 16:43 2/13/2005, Steven Dover typed:
<Snip>
--
John Nanci 
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.dreamsandbones.net/blog/http://www.chocolatealchemy.com/

44) From: Les
John,
I go with a slightly coarser on the grind.
Les
On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 06:33:31 -0800, AlChemist John  wrote:
<Snip>

45) From: Dennis Parham
one thing I have been looking at closely is the holes at the bottom of 
each of my baskets.... and I have noticed my LaMarzocco Triple has some 
decent size holes... so to allow TONS of sweet cream crema to flow 
through!! hehehe
I do wonder though... when everyone here doses their triple, do you 
keep it below the ridge? middle.. over?? ect....  I could see 
"hidden"channels on the edge is one did not take this into 
consideration.... any comments? I dose mine right on the bottom line of 
ridge BTW....
Dennis
On Feb 17, 2005, at 11:04 AM, Les wrote:
<Snip>

46) From: Les
Dennis,
If you would send me one of those Pasquini PFs and give me less than 5
minutes, I could make it crotchless and then you would know for sure
if you had channeling!
Channeling doesn't hid in a crochless you get a nice fine spray all
over the place.
Dr. Crema
I usually tamp to just below the ridge too.
On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 11:14:45 -0600, Dennis Parham  wrote:
<Snip>

47) From: AlChemist John
Ok, that is worked - just a "touch" coarser - Wow that is a lot of coffee 
both in the PF and in the cup.
Sometime around 09:04 2/17/2005, Les typed:
<Snip>
--
John Nanci 
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.dreamsandbones.net/blog/http://www.chocolatealchemy.com/

48) From: Dennis Parham
well.... this morning I was LOW on my roast so... I thought back about 
Ginny and her Double Doubles!  so... My Tribute is to Ginny for this 
FANTASTIC DOUBLE DOUBLE Americano Ethiopian Harar Style!!!!!!!!!!)))))  
  YUMMM!!!!! Heavy training on the Triple for me has improved my already 
tastey Doubles!!! )))
Dennis
On Feb 17, 2005, at 11:04 AM, Les wrote:
<Snip>

49) From: Les
Dennis you haven't seen anything yet!  Wait until you get your PF back
and have an unrestricted pull with that triple basket!
Les
On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 09:04:02 -0600, Dennis Parham  wrote:
<Snip>

50) From: Dennis Parham
hehehhe :-D  with the crotchless design, what is showing to be the the 
oz. that the triple will pull?  I have a pseudo setup where I just 
removed the spouts.. and that alone made a HUGE improvement!!  and now 
it will be fully  decrotchified!!!!  ))
Dennis
On Feb 18, 2005, at 9:14 AM, Les wrote:
<Snip>


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