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Topic: time from 1st crack to 2nd crack (12 msgs / 256 lines)
1) From: gil schluter
Goooooood Mornnnnning   Roasters !
          I have a question about the time from 1st crack to 2nd....   
playing around with my roasting and trying out all the great 
suggestions to my questions has been really fun and has been rewarding 
as well..   once I hit 1st crack and let it run its course I have been 
removing the SS from heat ... the heat stays stable for a couple of 
minutes then starts going down.. when it hits 300 I put it back on the 
heat and let it come back up til 2nd starts then remove and cool the 
beans.... I recently did a batch of the Sulawesi Toraja , a costa rican 
and a brazil org. this way and was really happy with the results... 
what I am wondering about --  someone once mentioned that the time 
between 1st and 2nd was a place where some really nice flavors could be 
developed.. if this is true is there a time limit of extending this 
time that would be detrimental ?  right how I am seeing about three to 
four minutes...  can I extend this time more with good results or would 
it be bad ? ( I keep seeing information posted about the baking affect 
and want to stay away from this ).  thanks in advance !
        Also I posted a thing about roaster blessings and mentioned I 
make didgeridoos..  I have received an email offlist about getting 
one...  I told the person I would gladly give them one...I also thought 
that since there were a couple of others that had mentioned they would 
like one I would offer one up as a give  away ...   I spend anywhere 
from about 100 hours to well over 150 hours in producing the didg's .  
If you are interested in one and do not mind paying the shipping costs 
( usually runs about  $65.00 )  email me offlist and I will try to 
figure out something coffee based to pick a person from all who email 
me.. anyone in the list who has suggestions about what I can have 
people do also please email me...
gil

2) From: Ken Mary
<Snip>
I have not done any ramps beyond 5 minutes, but the duration is less
important than the actual stopping point. In my experience, most coffees
will have the best flavor at city+ to full city. Continuing on to first snap
of second has given me many relatively disappointing roasts, both drum and
popper.
Also, you may have better results by keeping the bean temperature slowly
rising. You should always be in control of the roast and not have to make
any large changes in the heat.
--

3) From: AlChemist John
There is probably some time limit, but I would be hard pressed to give 
it.  Some coffees can take it better than others.  I would not give a Harar 
or Brazil a 10 minute window between 1st and 2nd, but I probably would do 
that with a Sumatran and not think twice about it.  I am routinely doing 
6-8 minutes between 1st and 2nd in my drum and often did 5-6 minutes in my 
WBI.   Actually, I just did a 18 minute roast of Kenya Kia where 1st was at 
10 minutes.  My hope is to tame a little of that tongue twist profile and 
get a little more "syrup" out of it.  I should know on Thursday.
Sometime around 00:24 4/4/2005, gil schluter typed:
<Snip>
--
John Nanci 
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.dreamsandbones.net/blog/http://www.chocolatealchemy.com/

4) From: David B. Westebbe
<Snip>
At the beginning of first crack, I like to set the air temp just under
the temp at which second crack occurs. That way, I can maintain the
first crack stage as long as I want, with no danger of the beans going
into second crack.  An advantage of this is that the beans have plenty
of time to develop, and all the beans have a chance to get up to the
same temp, which improves consistency.
I find this better than the method where super-hot air is used, and the
roast is stopped when the beans start their second crack.  When this
happens, some of the beans will be second-cracking, some are almost
there, and some are not nearly so developed.

5) From: Pecan Jim Gundlach
On Apr 4, 2005, at 7:37 AM, Ken Mary wrote:
<Snip>
I agree with Ken on this.   I noticed no additional improvement going 
from a three minute to six or seven minute hold between first and 
second.  One nice thing about heatgun/wok roasting is you get the 
control to try these things out.
        Jim Gundlach
"The espresso machine is an accessory to the grinder, not the other way 
around."

6) From: Les
I have found that holding it from 6-8 minutes smooths out the coffee. 
It is a subtle difference.  I have also noticed more sweetness if I
don't blast into second in 2-3 minutes.  I am doing this with a RK
drum, so my beans are moving more than when I GHDB roasted.
Les
On Apr 4, 2005 5:48 AM, Pecan Jim Gundlach  wrote:
<Snip>

7) From: Justin Marquez
Les -
I am in the process of bringing an RK Drum into service (waiting on
the 550 Deg thermometer to arrive tomorrow to start roasting for other
than just seasoning the drum).  When you say that you "hold it for 6-8
minutes", what temperature change do you make to get that to happen?
Are you doing this right after the first crack is done?
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (Snyder, TX)http://www.justinandlinda.comOn Apr 4, 2005 8:34 AM, Les  wrote:
<Snip>

8) From: Les
Justin,
I have found on my RK where I have the temp probe, I can hold the
pause between 1st and 2nd crack if I keep the temp at 450 degrees.  By
simply turning the heat up it will start 2nd crack at 465-470 degrees.
 The longest I have held the pause is 12 minutes.  Second crack begins
15 to 20 seconds after turning the heat up.  Once you get some
experience you will get a better feel for your roaster.  One of the
ways to make sure you learn your profiles is to roast the same size
batch each time.  I usually roast 1.5 pounds at a time.  I am getting
to know the characteristics of that size roast well.  I roasted a 3
pound roast over the weekend and almost felt like a beginner again. 
The roast turned out OK, but things didn't happen as predictably as
when I do 1.5 pounds.  Now if I did 3 pounders all the time, I would
get used to them.  To make a long post shorter, you can roast .5 - 4
pounds in a standard RK, if you want to get your profiles down stick
to one weight.
Les
On Apr 4, 2005 6:45 AM, Justin Marquez  wrote:
<Snip>

9) From: Wandering Curmudgeon
Les wrote:
<Snip>
This has been a life long struggle for me!   I just have never been able 
to stick to one weight!

10) From: Howard Schwartz
<Snip>
<Snip>
  This brings up for me a question about the relationship between color,
roasting time,  and temperature. I generally roast my beans by watching the
color carefully, and with generally good results. But if the roast were held
between first and second crack, I would think that a longer roasting time
would lead to darker beans than I would see at the same temperature, or is
the color of the beans a simple function of the temperature, without regard
to the time? I see that on the SM chart, the degree of roast is indicated by
the color.
Howard

11) From: David B. Westebbe
<Snip>
I think that color is a poor indicator.  I use smell mostly.
I was once in Queens with the SCAA crowd, and we roasted a few batches
at Dallis Coffee.
One batch was done at a higher temp, and turned out darker than another.
But when the coffee was ground, and went through the Agtron machine, it
turned out to be a lighter roast.  This was because the higher temp
cooked the outside quickly, but left the center of each bean at "medium
rare".
I use the "hold 'em just below second crack" technique to be sure that
the whole bean gets hot, even the middle.  If I set my roaster for the
desired terminal temp, and leave the beans in long enough to get there,
I'm assured of intra-bean consistency.
My philosophy is similar to barbecue - in the development phase of the
roast, low and slow is the way to go.  I don't understand using a higher
air temp than what you want for the terminal temp of the beans.  All
that can do is to overcook the outside and undercook the inside.  If I
know the inlet air temp, and it matches my desired terminal bean temp,
then I just wait until the beans reach stasis and hit the "cool" button.
I have no idea if this is the best possible method, but it makes pretty
tasty brews.

12) From: DJ Garcia
In my Hottop, depending on bean and quantity, I run between 1.7+ to 3
minutes normally between 1st & 2nd. I currently cast my fate to the
(roaster) winds ... I really have no complains whatsoever, but that
could just be the old what you don't know won't hurt you syndrome ...


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