HomeRoast Digest


Topic: time to attempt a homemade drum (29 msgs / 577 lines)
1) From: ginny
there was an old, old and older roaster on eBay a year or so ago, most likely early 18th c.,
it was round..

2) From: jlronk
on one of my recent thrift store scrounging runs i picked up a small 
stainless steel cylinder approx 3.5 x 7.5 inches. it's fairly hefty, 
solid (not perforated) and has an insert that fits snugly into the open 
end. my thought is to build it to be hand turned or maybe turned w/ a 
cordless drill over a big green egg BBQer. i'm guessing that it will do 
b/w 8 and 12 oz.
so any suggestions? should i perforate it? anybody built a drum that 
small? and finally anyone ever roast over a big green egg?
-jeff (wondering why in the world am i bothering since i already have 
too many poppers and a rosto!)

3) From: Gary Townsend
 jlronk  wrote:
<Snip>
 Because you can !   :-)
Just do it! Take pic's and have fun! 
BTW, I was staring at a 'really' nice tabletop Toastmaster oven/
broiler ( from the 70's)  and thinking 'nice heat source'
When I read 'Temp 475F' I went ahead and bought it at the thrift shop
for only $5. Was thinking about using a basket from the george forman
rotiserie....make a custom cabinet, and hmmmmm. a 2 lb roaster?
Electric, drum...inexpensive....hmmmm

4) From: AlChemist John
I will repeat myself here - I started off my Zen II roaster with the 
thoughts of boosting a tabletop broiler by punching a hole in it and adding 
a heat gun - I could never find one so just built the shell (custom 
cabinet) out of hardibacker and lined it with aluminum.  As for 2 lb, that 
is a little much for electric at even 20 amps.  The power is just not 
there.  I do have some leaks (it is still just proof of concept), but 20 oz 
in 20 minutes with a preheat seems to be about the limit for me.
Sometime around 15:46 4/21/2005, Gary Townsend typed:
<Snip>
--
John Nanci 
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.dreamsandbones.net/blog/http://www.chocolatealchemy.com/

5) From: AlChemist John
Sounds  a little small for 12 oz, but might work.  I would leave it as is 
and not perforate it.  You will need to add some form of mixing vane, 
otherwise the beans will just slide around inside.
I like the idea of roasting in a BGE.  Heck, I would love to see a ceramic 
roasting drum - That would be cool.
Sometime around 12:21 4/21/2005, jlronk typed:
<Snip>
--
John Nanci 
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.dreamsandbones.net/blog/http://www.chocolatealchemy.com/

6) From: Ken Mary
<Snip>
Build it, leave it solid, but get a gearmotor to turn it. Cranking 60 rpm
for 15 minutes is a bit of work for almost anybody.
Small size drums are a concern only if you want large quantities of coffee.
I use a small 900cc solid drum for experimentation. Batches of 50 to 100 cc
of green coffee are adequate for my use. I can make a lot of roast tests and
not waste any coffee.
--

7) From: Dan Bollinger
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
John,  20A at 120VAC is 2400W.    In general, that is enough for a two =
pound roast.  I suspect there is something amiss with your roasting =
system.  Roasting energy goes to three places, the beans, the roaster, =
and the environment. Of these, the smallest amount is into the beans. =
Doubling the bean mass from one pound to two pound is only going to take =
a small incremental increase in heat required.    Dan
   As for 2 lb, that is a little much for electric at even 20 amps.  The =
power is just not there.  

8) From: Dan Bollinger
<Snip>
Q: Why are roasting drums round?
A: Because that's what Jabez Burns used and everying has copied him.
Think about it. We make a round drum and then add extra work on the inside
with vanes to make it not-round.  I call a round drum with four vanes a
square!  So, when looking for ready made perfed metal objects, don't
discount a square. In fact, it may make your work easier.

9) From: Gary Townsend
AlChemist John  wrote:
<Snip>
ng
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et)
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I
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John,
I realized that it might be possible, if the heat was contained
properly. 2 #'s is a lot to ask out of an electric drum roaster. I
think that it's possible. I was envisioning a drum within a drum.
Using tight tolerances and attaching the heating element to the inside
of the outer drum. I'm following most the posts related to home
fabricating drum roasters.
Myself, I'd be happy with a 1 # electric roaster, but if I could do
1.5 #'s, I'd be a little happier! 2 #'s, ecstatic.
I thought about incorporating the Galloping Gourmet, mounting it on
the top of the outer drum. I was able to roast 600 grams with a highly
modified stir crazy, but that was really pushing it. It was a juggling
act, trying to control the stirring mechanism. I tried to use a bread
machine motor, mounted a steel wok, and it seemed plausible at the
time. A problem that I had was the hole in the bottom of the wok, was
spilling beans and that's a problem that can't be ignored, so it sits
on the shelf while I per sue another direction.
I think a drum tumbler is the best device suited for agitation.
I like Ed's idea of a mesh basket. I think that with an electric
heating element it would be an ideal environment for roasting smaller
batches.
The George Foreman type basket looks like a good starting place for an
electric roaster.
BBQ roaster's are ideal for larger roasts, from what I've been
hearing. I'll more than likely obtain an RK drum setup when I need to
roast 4 to 8 #'s at a time. That would be the way to go, and there are
many user's that are quite happy with that setup.
I just want to build a smaller 1 to 2 # roaster, and have a lot of fun
with it. I think that the actual building process is the best part.
I'm amazed at all the different ideas ( and opinions ) that people
have concerning these hand crafted devices.
I admire the people that build their own equipment. The ones that
actually share their knowledge with us 'little guy's are in a class
all their own.

10) From: Dan Bollinger
<Snip>
likely early 18th c.,
<Snip>
Gin, I remember it. It was a Jabez Burns single barrel sample roaster.  I
bid on it!   I went for about $750 if memory serves.  I decided I could
build one cheaper and better. Although I still regret not having that piece
of history.  Dan

11) From: Dan Bollinger
<Snip>
happy with a 1 # electric roaster, but if I could do
<Snip>
Remember, it wasn't that long about that people thought it impossible to
roast a full pound on a 15A circuit, yet I've been doing it for a year, and
I believe others have, too.
When I roast 1/2 pound I use 30% of my 1800W heater.  One pound is 35%.
One-half kilo (1.2 pounds) is 37%.  My guess is that two pounds would be
about 50% of 1800W, or no more than 10 amps.  If you want to accelerate the
drying phase then you'll want all of the 20A, but I see no reason to believe
that a good roaster can't do two pounds or even one kilo on a 20A circuit.
All that is needed is an insulated roasting cabinet.
Dan

12) From: AlChemist John
Tom and Ben were just talking about this.  Tom said he would love to see 
one.  Didn't you point out at one time that a round drum was easier to 
manufacture over a square or hexagonal drum?  Likewise, part of the 
conversation was that a circle is the best use of space, but when we have 
plenty of space, a different shape may make sense time, energy or mixing wise.
Sometime around 06:38 4/22/2005, Dan Bollinger typed:
<Snip>
--
John Nanci 
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.dreamsandbones.net/blog/http://www.chocolatealchemy.com/

13) From: AlChemist John
I will happily stand corrected.  I have quite a bit of air flow with the 
heat gun, and that air does carry heat away.  And to be accurate, I know I 
am not all the way up to 20 amps.  It will sometimes run on a 15 amp 
circuit if nothing else is running.  I should watch the generalizations 
before my first cup of coffee.
Sometime around 06:33 4/22/2005, Dan Bollinger typed:
<Snip>
--
John Nanci 
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.dreamsandbones.net/blog/http://www.chocolatealchemy.com/

14) From: miKe mcKoffee
20A 120V should be more than enough for a well designed electric roaster to 
do 2# plus batches. The Brightway 1500 does up to 3.3# batches 120V 1550W.
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer etc.http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmFrom: "Dan Bollinger" 
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 6:33 AM
<Snip>
   As for 2 lb, that is a little much for electric at even 20 amps.  The 
power is just not there.

15) From: Ken Mary
<Snip>
My first drum that I now use full time built 2 years ago is square, actually
about 8x8x15cm, about 900cc. No vanes are needed. Easy to build from
aluminum flashing.
--

16) From: Dan Bollinger
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
I missed that conversation.  A couple years ago I came up with a drum =
design (I'm by no means saying I invented it, but just that it was =
original to me) that was easy to manufacture, too.  A zig-zag round =
drum.  Think of an accordian fold where each bend is about 75-90, =
then roll that into a circle.  Viola!  An easy to make drum with =
multiple surfaces to mix and tumble the beans.  You could use perfed =
metal just as easily.  Granted, you need the right equipment, but then =
you do for rolling drums, too.  
  Tom and Ben were just talking about this.  Tom said he would love to =
see one.  Didn't you point out at one time that a round drum was easier =
to manufacture over a square or hexagonal drum?  Likewise, part of the =
conversation was that a circle is the best use of space, but when we =
have plenty of space, a different shape may make sense time, energy or =
mixing wise.

17) From: Dan Bollinger
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
John,  Just to be clear, I should have said 'in a drum roaster'. I'm not =
sure you could do one pound in fluid bed roaster and 20A.  Dan

18) From: Dan Bollinger
<Snip>
to
<Snip>
Right. The Torrefattore Supremo does 1 kilo with 1500W.
Dan

19) From: petzul
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
John,
You are using a heat gun to boost the tabletop broiler. IMHO, that setup 
wastes heat by forcing hot air out the cracks. Try adding a table top 
convection oven engine to the side or top of the home built chamber. 
This will give the advantage of recirculating the heated air, and with 
the added boost of the broiler you should do 2 lb easily.
Something like a 1200 Watt Sunpentown would work. You may find that you 
can cut down on the broiler power :)
Just kick it on, either one really, for added ooomph!
The only reason my PGR balks at 2 KG is that the mixing paddles are not 
big enough. It runs at a bit less than 1500 Watts. The power is there.. 
just save the heat with recirculation.
Just my .02
PeterZ
AlChemist John wrote:
<Snip>

20) From: petzul
Dan, I am glad that you and Mike mentioned some brand names.
Just Googled them, and they do look nice.
No price on the Brightway 1500, but the Supremo is $4995 plus shipping!
It also weighs much more than mine does.
Now would it be worth PID'ing the PGR?
PeterZ
Thinks we may be talking apples and oranges here...
Dan Bollinger wrote:
<Snip>

21) From: Ed Needham
No need to perf it.  Just add some sort of agitating vanes to keep the beans 
moving inside the rotating drum.  No reason it wouldn't work if the Egg hits 
450F-500F.
*********************
Ed Needham
"to absurdity and beyond!"
ed at homeroaster dot com
(include [FRIEND] somewhere in the subject line of any email correspondence)
*********************

22) From: miKe mcKoffee
A BGE is capable of producing temps that'd hit Spanish in minutes! (Can be 
used for high temp searing, well above 500f)
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer etc.http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmFrom: "Ed Needham" 
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 8:40 PM
<Snip>

23) From: jlronk
Ed Needham wrote:
<Snip>
i finished it up last nite. hoping to give it a trial run sometime 
today. i used aluminum vanes and put a hinge on the lid insert so i can 
open and dump. the egg itself has no problem hitting 500. in fact on 
start up i'm sure that it hits near 1000 degrees. my thermo pegs at 800. 
nice thing about it is that i can regulate it w/ in a fairly narrow 
range. for the 1st run i was planning on preheating to 400. leaving it 
there till 1st and then bringing it up. we'll see how it works!
-jeff

24) From: Alchemist John
At 10:53 4/22/2005 -0500, you wrote:
<Snip>
Opps, that was over lunch at the SCAA convention - not on the list, sorry.
<Snip>
 
<Snip>
 
<Snip>
 
<Snip>
Oh, I even drew that up for Tom on the back of a napkin.  I wondered where=
 
it come from.  Now I know.  Nice idea.  I would love to see it if you ever=
 
make one.   Would there be a simple way to transition that star pattern to=
 
a round snout that would run on a brass bushing like you have in your 
sample roaster or would we be  trading one bit of complicated construction=
 
for another?
<Snip>
 
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<Snip>
 wise.
John Nanci
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.chocolatealchemy.com/

25) From: Alchemist John
At 12:26 4/22/2005 -0700, you wrote:
<Snip>
Just the element actually.
<Snip>
Any clue where I would find one?  Can you point out a url by chance just to 
see one?
<Snip>
Not this particular element, it is only like 600 watts.
<Snip>
In a way, I am not worried about wasted heat in general.  It can roast more 
than I want to roast.  It can do a pound, but I have found I roast 13 
oz.  More than that and I have too much coffee for my own consumption in a 
good time span.  It is a  fine line, I wanted a roaster that roasts more so 
I didn't have to roast that often, BUT I don't want to roast too much 
because then I don't get to roast that often, and I enjoy roasting.
<Snip>

26) From: Dan Bollinger
<Snip>
John, Yes, very easy if you have some stamping and welding equipment. As in
all things mfgr'd, it comes down to how many do you want to make, and how
much do you want to spend?  It is a good, unique design solution for a
sample roaster.
<Snip>
Yes, a round is easy. And, this is a 'round drum', too, in that the zig-zag
metal is curled around until its ends meet.  You start by 'corrugating' the
metal and then make it round. Squares are difficult to make in sheet metal
because forming the last corner means there is no room for the forming
equipment. This means you have to make two 'L' shaped peices and join the
two seams.  :(
<Snip>
This is inconsequential when you consider you are only using about 1/6th to
1/3rd of the space for beans and the rest is empty.   Besides, you need some
room for air circulation and there is evidence that when high infrared
heaters, like glowing nichrome, is close to beans it increases the formation
of divots.
Dan

27) From: Angelo
I have a Z&D roaster, and I believe that the auger gives fantastic 
agitation of the beans. I'm surprised that this has not been considered by 
the "inventors" on the list. It doesn't seem too difficult to fabricate in 
almost any size and angle of lift. It needn't be a solid, cast one like the 
Z&D auger. It just needs to lift beans and drop them, over and over, in a 
field of heat....
Angelo
<Snip>

28) From: petzul
Angelo,
I agree with you absolutely.
My PGR does just that on a much larger scale than a Z&D.
The little paddle of the bread machine tosses and spins the beans, and 
the convection oven provides a hot controllable environment.
PeterZ
Now just need to design a chaff catcher, here in LHC.
Angelo wrote:
<Snip>

29) From: peter
Hi There,
In the rock hunting days people making drums to tumble stones made 6 sided
drums as these did not need baffles and were considerably faster because
there was a "throwing" or "pitching forward" action rather than a sliding
(back with lack of grip) action.
This speed gain would not apply so much as there is no added grit to cause
abrasion.
Would folding a 6 sided drum be easier?
Just in case it helps that is.
Peter.


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