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Topic: monsooned malabar ?? (19 msgs / 475 lines)
1) From: Peter Zulkowski
First I would like to say that my espresso PNWGIII mugs arrived 
yesterday, and they are awesome.
Now I have some questions about Monsooned Malabar.
Usually I have been roasting this bean to just into second crack. The 
beans come out dark, and I do get the swampy, funky flavor that I have 
come to love.
This last roast I decided to make it even better! So I stopped it shy of 
second crack, the beans are brown, like Hershey's chocolate, not as dark 
as usual.
My first experience was that they taste burned!
Now, after having rested several days, the burnt taste has gone away 
somewhat, but they are not like they used to be. This is the first of a 
new 20# batch, so right now I am a bit concerned.
Am I not roasting them long enough? Has anyone else any comments?
Has anyone noticed any changes in this batch as compared to last years?
Thanks for all your help,
PeterZ

2) From: Philip Keleshian
I roasted some to about 450 degrees F last week.  I used a somewhat =
tricked out Z&D.  I have to say those are some strange beans.  They =
require a whole lot less heat for the same profile.  I suppose that =
makes some sense as they are not very dense.  Also green the beans are =
about as large as they are going to get.
I'm not very good at describing flavors, but I think the result is OK. I =
don't get what is supposed so polarizing about these beans.
Phil

3) From: George Holt
I try not to take the MM into Second crack, I find it can't take a dark 
roast. I only use the MM in small amounts in my espresso blend. My last 
blend was 300g Yirgacheffe, 300g Washed Sidamo, 300g Harrar and 70g MM.
On 5/26/05, Philip Keleshian  wrote: 
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-- 
Living Large In Waxhaw, NC.
George Holt

4) From: Dan Bollinger
MM is a bean that needs to go into second crack.  Full City, Full City+, or
even Vienna.  How far into second is up to you, but you want to go at least
until the first few snaps are heard.  Also, this is a bean that you cannot
use color to judge the roast.  Go by cracks or smell, or both.  Dan
<Snip>
unsvbscribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>

5) From: George Holt
This is Tom's roast recomendation:
"*Roast: *City if you dare, Full City for maximum drinkability, and no 
darker or you lose the funk."
I think this coffee used in small amounts adds a great deal of complexity t=
o 
an Espresso blend. Take it any further then Full City and it's just flat 
tasting. 
I don't care for MM as a drip coffee, at least not something I would want t=
o 
drink everyday.
On 5/27/05, Dan Bollinger  wrote:
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-- 
Living Large In Waxhaw, NC.
George Holt

6) From: Dan Bollinger
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
At least we agree on one point, nothing below Full City or 2nd crack.   =
Dan
  This is Tom's roast recomendation:
  "Roast: City if you dare, Full City for maximum drinkability, and no =
darker or you lose the funk."
  I think this coffee used in small amounts adds a great deal of =
complexity to an Espresso blend. Take it any further then Full City and =
it's just flat tasting. 
  I don't care for MM as a drip coffee, at least not something  I would =
want to drink everyday.
  On 5/27/05, Dan Bollinger  wrote:
    MM is a bean that needs to go into second crack.  Full City, Full =
City+, or
    even Vienna.  How far into second is up to you, but you want to go =
at least
    until the first few snaps are heard.  Also, this is a bean that you =
cannot 
    use color to judge the roast.  Go by cracks or smell, or both.  Dan
    > First I would like to say that my espresso PNWGIII mugs arrived
    > yesterday, and they are awesome.
    > Now I have some questions about Monsooned Malabar. 
    > Usually I have been roasting this bean to just into second crack. =
The
    > beans come out dark, and I do get the swampy, funky flavor that I =
have
    > come to love.
    > This last roast I decided to make it even better! So I stopped it =
shy of 
    > second crack, the beans are brown, like Hershey's chocolate, not =
as dark
    > as usual.
    > My first experience was that they taste burned!
    > Now, after having rested several days, the burnt taste has gone =
away 
    > somewhat, but they are not like they used to be. This is the first =
of a
    > new 20# batch, so right now I am a bit concerned.
    > Am I not roasting them long enough? Has anyone else any comments?
    > Has anyone noticed any changes in this batch as compared to last =
years? 
    >
    > Thanks for all your help,
    >
    > PeterZ
    >
    > homeroast mailing list
    >http://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast    > To change your personal list settings (digest options, vacations,
    unsvbscribes) go to
   http://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings    >-- 
  Living Large In Waxhaw, NC.
  George Holt 

7) From: Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee
Just an FYI: I have a neat "boutique" lot of MM coming. It is 
something I was able to source through a London-based coffee broker, 
a farm-specific lot. It should be here in a week or two (been waiting 
on it a while). It is sold under the "Elephant" mark - I will email 
more details when it is nearby.
MM is a tough coffee to find a really good lot - there is a lot of it 
out there, and it can be REALLY rank. A lot of people you talk to 
don't believe it can actually have a sweetness to it - they just 
think it's moldy, defective tasting coffee. The lot we have is what I 
look for in MM, sometimes I find it in Aspinwall, sometimes in the 
Cohelos. I ahd it all set up for Pearl Mountain to do a special MM 
lot for us, but it fell through. The "Elephant" lot coming is what I 
was hoping for from the Pearl Mtn so I am pleased with that...
Tom
-- 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                   "Great coffee comes from tiny roasters"
            Sweet Maria's Home Coffee Roasting  -  Tom & Maria
                      http://www.sweetmarias.com                Thompson Owen george
     Sweet Maria's Coffee - 1115 21st Street, Oakland, CA 94607 - USA
             phone/fax: 888 876 5917 - tom

8) From: Alchemist John
I am with Tom here, and not just because he is Tom.  I like MM, and really 
any aged coffee, pre-2nd, or just at 2nd.  Full, in your face funk.  And in 
my mind, that is why I am drinking it, so why not maximize it.
At 16:22 5/27/2005 -0400, you wrote:
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John Nanci
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.chocolatealchemy.com/

9) From: Alchemist John
City isn't 2nd in my book - is it yours?  Where do you put City?  For me it 
is dead in between 1st and 2nd,
At 15:45 5/27/2005 -0500, you wrote:
<Snip>
John Nanci
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.chocolatealchemy.com/

10) From: miKe mcKoffee
Ditto, roasted a batch Zombie funk coffee yesterday, to just before 2nd. 
It's kind of the antithesis of coffees I more commonly drink
Kona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee
3rd Annual Pacific Northwest Sweet Maria's Home Roasters Gathering infohttp://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmFrom: "Alchemist John" ">http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/pnwgIII.htmURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmFrom: "Alchemist John" 
Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2005 6:24 AM
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11) From: Pecan Jim Gundlach
I've given up on the use of the City, Full City... , what ever you call 
this scheme of colors, nomenclature.   Despite some heroic efforts to 
pin them down,I don't thing there is sufficient consensus on what these 
terms mean to be useful in our discussions.
       Jim Gundlach
On May 28, 2005, at 8:26 AM, Alchemist John wrote:
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"The espresso machine is an accessory to the grinder, not the other way 
around."

12) From: Justin Marquez
On 6/1/05, Pecan Jim Gundlach  wrote:
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Jim - 
How then do you characterize the roast result?  (I'm not trying being
argumentative;  I'm just curious as to how you refer to it if not by
CITY, CITY+, etc.)
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (Snyder, TX)http://www.justinandlinda.com

13) From: Jeff Oien
I always thought Tom's descriptions were very good and
useful for most of us. Since we are on a mailing list
hosted by him and most of us use mainly his beans, it
only makes sense to use those terms as a consensus. They
seem fairly clear to me.http://www.sweetmarias.com/roasting-VisualGuideV2.html(for those unfamiliar)
JeffO
Pecan Jim Gundlach wrote:
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14) From: Colin Dimacali
The old version of that page http://sweetmarias.com/roasted.pict-guide.htm=l) 
actually have a temperature range for the different roasts. Here is what I=
 
understand from the page:
Temp reading with a probe on the beans.
C = 425-430 \
C+ = 435 \ Got these from the
FC = 440 - 445 / "*City, Full City note:"
FC+ = 445-448 /
V = 455-465
FR = 470-490
I know that each bean type would be different, but this is just a general=
 
guide. The descriptions gives more clues on how to tell which level the 
beans are in.
 I've only had my TC thermometer for less than a week and have roasted thre=
e 
batches with it. Using the TC showed me that I was roasting one roast level=
 
too dark on the roasts prior to using a TC. I just could not hear the 2nd=
 
crack (most of the time) above the noise from my I-Roast, and my olfactory=
 
senses are not yet tuned enough to know when 2nd is imminent so I have to=
 
resort solely on the temperature reading.
 Colin
 
On 6/1/05, Jeff Oien  wrote:
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15) From: Pecan Jim Gundlach
Justin,
     I find references relative to first and second crack most useful.
          Jim Gundlach
On Jun 1, 2005, at 10:34 AM, Justin Marquez wrote:
<Snip>
"The espresso machine is an accessory to the grinder, not the other way 
around."

16) From: Mike Sieweke
Colin,
These numbers are for "internal bean temperature", which you can't
easily measure.  The numbers you'll see on your thermometer will be
higher because you're measuring a combination of air temp and outside
bean temp.
I typically stop my roasts just before second crack or as soon as
it starts.  That should be around full city, but my thermometer
reads 455.
Mike Sieweke
On Jun 1, 2005, at 12:50 PM, Colin Dimacali wrote:
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17) From: Colin Dimacali
Mike,
 Actually the site said that for the city and city+ combined range is 
400-415 internal bean temp or 425-435 by thermo-probe. Full city and full=
 
city+ combined range is 415-425 internal bean temp or 438-448 by 
thermo-probe.
 Then again, I have only been roasting for 2-3 months so I'm in no way an=
 
authority on roast levels so you might be right with your statement, I'm 
just stating how I understood what Tom wrote on his site.
 I say just as long as everyone is happy with their own roasts, it's all 
good! :)
 Colin
 
 On 6/1/05, Mike Sieweke  wrote: 
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18) From: Rick Copple
Pecan Jim Gundlach wrote:
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True. What I've always understood (and thought it was what everyone else 
thought....guess I was wrong) is the following:
Cinnamon - in the midst of 1st crack
City - just after 1st crack
City+ - shortly before 2nd crack
Full City - just a couple snaps into 2nd crack
Full City+ - just into a rolling second crack
Vienna - well into second crack, about 20 seconds of rolling
French - towards the end of second crack
Spanish - after second crack and shortly before flaming third crack
Char$$ - right before the beans ignite (ok, just joking about 
that...sort of)
That is essentially what I've understood Tom's site to suggest and is 
how I judge where the roast is. Is it really that much more abstract 
than this in most folks minds?
-- 
Rick Copple
Marble Falls, TX

19) From: Colin Dimacali
This was how I used to roast when I was using my Kitchen Gourmet popperand=
 
can clearly hear 1st and 2nd cracks , poor thing can only roast 2.3 oz of=
 
greens and the thing is running so hot that a lot of the time 1st goes righ=
t 
through 2nd and I just have to distinguish their distinct sound (twigs 
breaking as compared to rice crispies popping). I had to upgrade and decide=
d 
on the I-Roast, but it is running so loud that I can barely hear 1st crack,=
 
much less 2nd, and if I ever picked up on the sound of 2nd, it is mostly to=
o 
late as it has entered the rolling stage. With what I have, I had to resort=
 
to a different method of telling the roast stage. Color as I have learned i=
s 
not a very good indicator and my nose is not yet tuned enough (if it ever=
 
will, I don't know) to tell if 2nd is coming, so this leaves me with using=
 
temperature and graphs.
 So far I have been very pleased with the results and until I develop my 
hearing and smelling abilities, I will stick with using a TC probe.
 Colin
 On 6/1/05, Rick Copple  wrote: 
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