HomeRoast Digest

Topic: ok, I quit (50 msgs / 1168 lines)
1) From: ginny
I have been wrong at times and will not bore the list any longer with my attitude toward mike.
Sorry for the issues folks.
warmest regards,

2) From: ginny
what a guy,
tame stuff,

3) From: ginny
Call me on whatever you want. Do not let it go, twist those panties really tight. Feel better now?
WE should expect a lot of things from our list members.
You think I have been bad, fine. Say it again and feel better. Slap my "little hand" again and tell me no!!
I bet the off list mail back and forth from you and mikie is terrific. Do you feel better for supporting him now?
The question is not a challange either.

4) From: ginny
Thank you for your thoughts.

5) From: The Scarlet Wombat
I've stayed out of this, but will make this one comment.  If you think 
Ginny is a problem child, you have not been on a "real" list with rough and 
tumble people who feel free to express themselves in less than polite terms 
most of the time.  She is tame stuff, let me assure you.

6) From: Will
Nope, I'm not going to let this one go.
The lowest common denominator argument always leads to trouble. We 
should expect better from a civilized group entertaining the entirely 
civilized discussion of coffee.
I think Ginny has been bad and I called her on it and I don't have a 
swagger complex.
I've seen plenty of rough and tumble in lists and in business. It gets 
old. People should behave. Telling me that other lists are worse 
doesn't cut it.
On Friday, June 10, 2005, at 07:35 PM, The Scarlet Wombat wrote:

7) From: Aaron
well hell, let me join in.
A good barb once in a while never hurt anyone.
I have been on this list only a short while and there definately seems 
to be some
PERSONAL issues that creep in, jealousy, bitterness, whatever drives them
they really need to stop.
No I am not trying to play the thought police, I well, just felt we ALL 
were a bit better than this.
Sure folks will disagree and argue, and YES maybe there ARE some 
personal issues 'tween a few of the regulars.. but,  shouldn't them 
issues be taken PRIVATE???
Seems someone had a bit too much coffee to drink tonight.
Oh and to keep my reputation as an ass..
 From seeing the flip flopping going on here, and it's not loser Kerry 
trying to explain his pitiful performance at the ballot box.
I offer this website to EVERYONE who might need help controlling their 
rages, tempers, and outbursts... myself included....http://www.bipolarhelpcenter.com/index.jspTake it as you will....

8) From: Gene Smith
But, unless we all missed the announcement, you are not empowered to 
straighten the rest of us out OR make medical recommendations.  And the 
fact that you are unwilling or unable to "let it go" - and also apparently 
unwilling or unable to grasp the (so far) gentle suggestions that you do so 
suggests that you may share some of the mental symptoms you claim to be 
concerned about in Ginny.
To pose a specific question about your rational capacity: what do you 
imagine you are accomplishing by telling us all the proper way to behave? 
Will it be enough if we all profusely thank you for pointing out the error 
of our ways and the shortcomings of our behavior and beg forgiveness?  Or 
shall we just start behaving in a "civilized" manner and wait for your 
Gene Smith
more than ready to make Ginny look tame, in Houston

9) From: Gene Smith
I think what we really need is the URL for PassiveAggressiveHelper, if 
we're going to play psychologist along with our coffee.
Gene Smith
only doing it to annoy, in Houston

10) From: Tom Ulmer
It's the manic anger outburst fueled by days of endless activity and no
sleep that make life worth living... for the caretaker...
You'll have to step in stronger than that spanky...

11) From: Aaron
But THAT is what's so grand, is that EVERYBODY is the expert on what 
everyone else should do.  Personally, and this is a totally 
UNprofessional opinion since that seems to count some way, I really 
think it's the caffeine buzz that is doing it ::wink::
Gene Smith wrote:

12) From: David Johnson
As long as we are supplying links:http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/It may not help, but I thought it was fun.

13) From: Tom Ulmer
Well as long as we're playing doctor and ginny's the patient... may be time
for a joint consult?

14) From: Tom Ulmer
I suspect a fight may brew on whose coffee we'll have...

15) From: Will
On Friday, June 10, 2005, at 08:04 PM, Gene Smith wrote:
Why? because you think her posts are cute? You wish to hear some more 
about pink panties or Kona Kondoms?
I haven't told "all of us" how to behave. I told Ginny to grow up and I 
think it was OK to do it.

16) From: David Johnson
"may be time for a joint consult?"
It always helps to know what we are talking about. we started in
psychology/neurology. Are we now in Orthopedics or pharmacology?

17) From: Gene Smith
Thank you for your thoughts.
Gene Smith
riding the wild learning curve, in Houston

18) From: Matt Stegmeir
Hostility I can handle.  Spamming back and forth *about* hostility gets old.
I've seen few longer "quits".  Can we just chill?

19) From: Gene Smith
Oh, this list is all about pharmacology, David.  I think we're just getting 
ready to discuss dosage.
Gene Smith
who's thinking decaf at the moment, in Houston

20) From: Tom Ulmer
Preemptive pharmacology sounds fun...

21) From: John Casey
Hash: SHA1
that site's a masterpiece.
David Johnson wrote:
Version: GnuPG v1.2.6 (GNU/Linux)

22) From: David Johnson
Dosage is always key.
Glad we are on the same page.

23) From: David Johnson
The oxen are slow, but the land is patient.

24) From: John Reyes
While you're at it, how about sending back the Money Order I sent you a couple of months ago? I have posted about this a couple of times in the past and have not heard a peep from you. Just send it back iof you can't deliver the goods. I don't want to bother Tom about this but I am going to elevate the issue to him soon.
ginny  wrote:
I have been wrong at times and will not bore the list any longer with my attitude toward mike.
Sorry for the issues folks.
warmest regards,
Do you Yahoo!?
 Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. Learn more.

25) From: Brent - SC/TO Roasting
Well, good for you.  There's something to be said for having a spine.
However, if someone has an attitude of self-righteous crusading, it is =
offputting to many people.  Dan is right.  This list is actually a very
amenable group.  And only one person seems to be having a problem with =
I cannot defend either Ginny or miKe, since I do not personally know =
of them.  In the year that I have been on this list, they both have been
more than generous to the list with advice, wit, and kindness.  The =
and guidance of both miKe and Ginny have helped me on the homeroasting =
Even if there is some tension there, it really doesn't intrude on the =
and has been handled quite diplomatically.  
Starting a new topic with a subject of "So-and-so must stop it", =
does intrude on the list.  To me the message, seemed at best surly and =
to elicit reactions.  On some lists, that is called trolling (as in =
for attention).
Concerns about fellow members on the list can be addressed in ways that =
neither inflammatory nor mean-spirited.  In fact, it can be done without
addressing the list as a whole.  On some lists, that's called common =
You may not intend it but your messages, to me, come across as mean, =
and with an intent which is not clear.  To me, those are the lowest =
demoninators of any conversation.
It is also not clear to me when or how you came to feel compelled to =
the arbiter of behavior on the list.  "Calling" people on behavior can =
touchy.  Especially when the person you are trying to confront is not in =
same room with you.
In the overall scheme of lists, people will clash, feelings will be =
and apologies will be made.  Unless it inolves me specifically, though, =
none of my busness.
Just my two bits.
Roasting in an SC/TO
For drip/moka/presspot brew

26) From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Scott_Kou=E9?=
Excellent link, I see so many familiar faces....
On Jun 10, 2005, at 6:16 PM, David Johnson wrote:

27) From: Will
On Friday, June 10, 2005, at 09:42 PM, Brent - SC/TO Roasting wrote:
A lot of folks have been polite and ignored it, including me for many 
I don't know either of them either. But Ginny's comments have been off 
color and it hasn't been addressed because it was still happening a 
couple of hours ago.
I don't make it my business to crusade for goodness and purity, but I 
decided to call the question. I don't think enabling childish behavior 
Not trolling at all. I made it a separate topic intentionally because 
it is. How would you categorize Ginny's posts if not surly and intended 
to elicit reactions?
I am not looking to be the arbiter of anything. I want Ginny to stop 
posting juvenile messages. Calling her on it is touchy. You can Google 
the newsgroups, you won't find me asserting mean, angry thoughts. But I 
will admit I am irritated. I am bothered that Ginny feels so free to 
post obnoxious things about another member and I am concerned that some 
members of this group think that's OK.
I get it. It's like walking through the cow pasture and as long as you 
don't step in the paddies, the shit is not there.
If Ginny wants to insult Mike or me or whomever, that is fine. As long 
as she does it off-list. That hasn't been the case. Has it?
Well you've got mine.

28) From: Brett Mason
Where's your badge, Will?
Maybe you should change your name to Won't....
On 6/10/05, Will  wrote:
Brett Mason
_(( )_ Please don't spill the coffee!

29) From: Mike Sieweke
On Jun 10, 2005, at 10:42 PM, Brent - SC/TO Roasting wrote:
A few people have complained.  Others, like me, have quietly considered
whether it's annoying enough to just leave the list.  It interferes
with my enjoyment of the list.
I'm even more disturbed to see insulting personal attacks on the one
who finally did complain.  Should I expect the same now that I have
spoken up?
I disagree.  I feel it does intrude on the list, and it has not been
handled diplomatically.  If this behavior is considered acceptable,
then it's time to look for a different source of roasting info.
How would you propose we do that?  Personal messages to Ginny and Mike?
Until now I've kept my head down to avoid ending up on the receiving end
of Ginny's diatribe.  Considering how she responded to Will, I think my
fears are justified.  Do you think a complaint to Tom would be  
Without a moderator for the list, it's difficult to know where to turn.
This last statement is almost as disturbing as the insults.  We are all
diminished when we allow others to behave badly in our public forum.  It
reflects poorly on the whole list and gives a bad impression to new
members.  I believe it also reflects poorly on Tom and Maria.
If this list is intended to operate under the current standards, then
this should be clearly spelled out so we can make an informed decision
on whether to remain.
Mike Sieweke

30) From: Alchemist John
Mike, I have contemplated entering this fray for many of the reasons you 
mention.  I like that you have cc Tom.  I agree with you that this gets in 
the way.  I have been way too busy to read every message lately (which is 
my norm).  Unfortunately all these personality conflicts make it difficult 
to find the on topic messages and it has run through my head whether it is 
worth it any more.  The delete key option is just too simplistic a solution 
for this size list.
my $0.02 worth.
My take - Ginny, you don't seem able to respond non-confrontationaly to 
MM.  My suggestion - don't respond to him AT ALL.  Sure, respond to threads 
he is in, just not to him.  I do that with a couple of posters, and it 
keeps my bp and arguments down.  MM, I might suggest the same to you to be 
fair :-)
At 11:36 6/11/2005 -0400, you wrote:
John Nanci
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.chocolatealchemy.com/

31) From: Les
Good points Mike. As a long time member of the list, I think it is importan=
to remember we all come from different places, ages, political, religious,=
and social backgrounds. I had the wonderful opportunity of having dinner in=
Denver with a fellow list member. Maybe it is because I am older, but the=
familiarity on list quickly disappeared when I met him in person. It felt=
like an awkward first date. After about 5 minutes we were having a wonderfu=
time. So the risk was worth it. Same with this forum. It is my virtual 
coffee shop. I am looking forward to next weekend (PNWG III) for two 
reasons. One to see some old friends and to have that awkward feeling with=
some of the people I have only met on the list. I for one value the list an=
hope we can have heated debates on substance (coffee issues) rather than 
personal attacks. Some folks have humor spilling out of them like Wandering=
John or is Curmudgeon John, or as I prefer John from the Deeeeeep South. 
Some seem to always be analytical like John Brummel who makes me think 
deeper than I want at times. I really don't want Tom having to slap our 
wrists all the time. He clarified the limitations on the New Panama coffees=
That should be enough said. From a business stand point it isn't very smart=
However Tom cares about his customers and sharing the special experience. I=
think we should all rise to his level of compassion and passion about good=
coffee. If you need to appreciate what we have order some of his "Yuk" or=
the crap off of Ebay and realize that is all I was able to get before the=
Internet and Tom doing the extra work of bring us the best.
(My sermon for the week) 
 On 6/11/05, Mike Sieweke  wrote: 

32) From: Wandering Curmudgeon
Is this from Matthew 7:3? I should have that memorized because folks are 
always sending me there :O)
I just ordered the new Panamas - your fault - so can I store it at your 
John - loving life in the slow lane
On 6/11/05, Les  wrote:

33) From: Rick Farris
Mike Sieweke says:
You know, every statement in that paragraph is wrong.  We're not
"diminished" how others act, it's not "our" public forum, and individuals
don't reflect on the whole list.
But the worst is the claim that you get to "allow" things here.
You're a fascist.
But you know what?  If I had your authoritarian position, I'd suggest that
you shouldn't be allowed to post in our public forum, and that your
non-roasting posts give a bad impression to new members.
Instead I'll tell you this: You can never make an email list better by
griping and taking a patriarchal position.  Posting like you draws posts
like crap draws flies.
The only way you can make it better is by posting relevantly. (Relevant to
roasting, that is.)
If all you folks who try to control the content of this list instead spent
the same time posting useful articles, you would swamp out the sort of posts
that you don't like.
-- Rick

34) From: Michael Guterman
David Johnson wrote:
Well, Ginny does have a replacement hip.  Maybe joint"s" consult.

35) From: John Blumel
On Jun 11, 2005, at 12:09 pm, Les wrote:
I don't remember seeing him on the list.
Actually, I think it's very smart. By restricting how much people can  
purchase of limited supply coffee, more people are able to sample it  
and the overall coffee knowledge and satisfaction of his customers  
increases. The annoyance of those who would like to buy 20 lbs of the  
"special" coffees is, I think, far outweighed by the more general  
happiness of a much larger number of customers who aren't frustrated  
by not being able to get any of the "good stuff" if they don't  
constantly watch the web site and order as fast as it comes in.
And, of course, either way, he sells it all.
John Blumel

36) From: Oaxaca Charlie
 So, Rick-how come you didn't slam me when I strongly asked
Gin to apologize to Mike the first time she started with
the personal insults-which had nothing at all to do with
coffee roasting? The telephone or off list emails can be
used for that crap. Nobody else does what Gin has been
doing and gets away with it, and I don't think anyone
should, it's disgusting. Gin is getting all the support
because of a long time contributing to the list in a
possitive, or at least nutral manner, but how can you not
be offended by the personal insults that seem to be coming
from far left field. If Mike did something that bad to
deserve it, it sure wasn't on the list. Sure, Mike can
stand up for himself, but I keep reading this stuff in
posts that are not marked OT, and before deleting them it
makes me nausious. I don't want to plonk Gin, but I wish
she'd keep the personal nastyness out of here. Calling
"fascist" is what finally drew me into this. That's not
fair, ol buddy.
--- Rick Farris  wrote:
                                         Oaxaca dreamin'
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

37) From: R.N.Kyle
Of course, anytime we respond either positive or negative we will get yeas
or nays, list are made up of people, they act and respond differently, I
don't expect everyone's post to be just the way I might want them but who
cares, I can always delete or unsubscribe.
Tom is the mediator of this list and I just let him decide what is right or
wrong for this list.
I do love a good fight thought, so I do believe that this will continue for
a day or two.

38) From: Gene Smith
Oh, he's just confused you with your brother, Beau Blumel, John.
Gene Smith
who doesn't have a brudder, but always wanted one, in Houston

39) From: Gene Smith
And that's the facts, Jacks.
Speaking of...what was it?...oh yeah...Coffee Roasting!  Now that I've got 
a Stir Crazy-Turbo Oven combo, roasting larger amounts is not an issue any 
more.  I am not beginning to tax the capacity of the SCTO with the amounts 
that I can use before staling.  But I find that I still use my little 
Melitta Aromaroast fairly regularly.  Why?  Because I use smaller 
quantities of decaf than the SCTO "likes" to roast.  The Aromaroast roasts 
just enough decaf to fit the same "use before staling" parameter that the 
SCTO fulfills for regular coffee.
Anybody besides me still find a regular use for their smaller-capacity 
roaster after moving up to something bigger?
Gene Smith
riding the wild learning curve, in Houston

40) From: Brent - SC/TO Roasting
Sure do, Gene.  Still have 3 poppers here.  Usually, they get used for new
beans to find a general roast profile that I like.  You can do a small
amount to a certain roast then try it.  Once I find the roast level that
works, I'll roast larger batches in the SC/TO.
They're also good if it's pouring rain out and I've run out of beans.  Can
lean it out the window so the smoke blows out and still get a pretty decent
Welcome to the wonderful world of SC/TO roasting!  How are your roasts
coming out?  Do you like the results?
Roasting in an SC/TO
For drip/moka/presspot brew

41) From: John Blumel
On Jun 11, 2005, at 1:55 pm, Gene Smith wrote:
Maybe I should change the spelling of my name to avoid confusion with  =
this Brummel guy.
John Blümel

42) From: Gene Smith
Let me put it this way...all my other roaster fixes/mods/experiments 
stopped with my first SCTO roast.  It's just so *easy*.  The only thing I'm 
currently contemplating is rigging the whole thing so it's a little less 
awkward to use/store.  I'm thinking of hinging the TO to lift up and out of 
the way...and also pivoting the SC so that it's easy to dump the beans.
Gene Smith
riding the wild learning curve, in Houston

43) From: Mike Sieweke
On Jun 11, 2005, at 12:38 PM, Rick Farris wrote:
It's not that I condone fascism, or any ism for that matter.
Ism's in my opinion are not good.  A person should not believe
in an ism; he should believe in himself.  I quote John Lenon:
"I don't believe in Beatles.  I just believe in me."  A good
point there.  After all, he was the walrus.
Mike "No coffee for you!" Sieweke

44) From: Dan Bollinger
Sounds like a typical walrusism to me!   ;)  Dan

45) From: Rick Farris
Because I like you, Charlie.
-- Rick

46) From: HeatGunRoast heatgunroast
 I usually avoid "Ginny threads"------but with 45 posts on this one,
my voyeuristic impulses got the better of me.  Had to see what was the
I appreciate your posts here, especially how you have managed to stick
to your central principle and not get sidetracked by the usual
arguments.  I like how your posts are reaonable and thoughtful--no
matter if someone might agree or disagree.  IMO, if Ginny feels free
to drop her frequent "twisted panties" bombs and have no reservations
about going on the attack, it's reasonable to call her on it.
The sad irony is that if we were to do an content analysis of this
thread, we'd conclude that the SweetMaria list is more tolerant of
smarta** and possibly hurtful one-liners than the occasional and
respectful push-back asking folks to act right.  Go figure.
Not long ago, Tom actually did respond to a fairly disrespectful
thread.  Essentially, he said, "cut it out!"  It was not a gentle
caution, but----no mistaking---- a strongly-felt imperative.  For all
this list's putative admiration and respect for Tom, he was ignored. 
Possibly a response or two.  That's it.   And as if to send a signal
back, some of those engaged in the behavior that Tom  found
reprehensible simply continue with it.  A few days later, I reposted
Tom's comments.  Also ignored.
So, I wouldn't expect that your comments will make much of a change in
the culture of the list, but that really doesn't matter. I think that
raising the issue of respectful, and as important to me, thoughtful,
posts is crucial, and I hope it continues.

47) From: Angelo
Consider yourself lucky. I have a brother who's an only child.....
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48) From: Angelo
I have a (3?) TO which I actually use for the little cooking I do...I don't 
know whether yours has the handle which actuates an on/off swith, but mine 
does, and when I want to get something out of the oven, I  hang the top on 
a hook which I have in the shelf above. I can then freely deal with the 
food in the container, or take the whole container to somewhere else.....
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.9 - Release Date: 6/11/2005

49) From: Les
I would say my comments were in the Spirit of Matt. 7:3. I was thinking mor=
along the lines of being kind and loving to one another.
 On 6/11/05, Wandering Curmudgeon  wrote: 
n. It 
r two 
t and 
e. I 

50) From: Les
I agree 100% with you John! My comment was from the perspective of "sell as=
much as fast as you can for the most bucks you can is the prevailing 
business ethic." Tom's ethic is old school which you described very well ha=
has a bigger picture in mind. Sorry for the extra "m" and forgetting the 'l=
John! I always enjoy your posts.
 On 6/11/05, John Blumel  wrote: 

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