HomeRoast Digest


Topic: This list has become nearly worthless (98 msgs / 2544 lines)
1) From: ginny
Welcome back Mike:
Had you continued to READ you would have learned that the forum you seek is in the brewing.
From the sound of your note, you may not be able to hang on too long.
ginny

2) From: ginny
David,
you will not!!
ginny

3) From: ginny
Les:
I am in "be good mode" remember?
I am just curious why Mike (read not MM) had to announce to the list how worthless we were, how we did not stimulate him (I do not remember anything on the sign up page about stimulating Mike), why does he just not 
leave. 
Obviously he lurks around for some stimulation, we must try harder!
ginny

4) From: ginny
good pointy Tom,
I like the idea of "fringe involvement".
ginny

5) From: ginny
depends on how many days rest you get?
long trip.
ginny

6) From: ginny
Martin:
I am at a loss for words...
Please start any Yaaaahoooooooooooo group you want.
Martin please do somethng about this and watch your butt.
ginny

7) From: ginny
you are right Jason, plain text is great...
thinking about this a bit ago I suppose if you want to make change or have a specific topic on any list you must contribute.
I am not sure anyone who reads this list also read minds!
ginny
off to have horse with gobbs of blueberry...

8) From: ginny
Hey Gene my lad:
Do have a bully list?
ginny, your other sister

9) From: ginny
Brent:
Consider yourself a SMB (sweet maria bully)  be proud!
ginny
I will forward your name to the master of the smb list gene "wild man" smith

10) From: ginny
we be getting sign ups?
g

11) From: ginny
sure you remember, the blood pact and everything?
g

12) From: ginny
Peter, dear one:
You are way too nice a guy to offend anyone. That does not mean you are a wimp, you are a really nice person.
ginny

13) From: ginny
<Snip>
meaningful and why you might want to read them.<<<
I think many people have addressed this point, they enjoy the chatty stuff and feel that is what sets this list apart; unless you have developed some type of conversation with anyone here you would most likely not want to read the chatty stuff. Most posts seem to end that way, chatty that is.
ginny

14) From: ginny
Scott:
Geez, you left out way too many post for this to be useful.
sorry,
ginny

15) From: ginny
Scott:
I just wanted you to know that you are the first, read number one, to recei=
ve the:
Twisted Pink Panty Award
This award is given to the idiot who seems to hang on the longest to a dead=
 subject!
You win.
ginny
send me your address and your award will be sent asap.

16) From: ginny
I am always on the lam,
government  stuff, taxes and the like.
The panties will be washed, the twist is what you can take and we hand deli=
ver.
ginny

17) From: ginny
Doug:
Very funny.
g

18) From: ginny
Paul:
More or less what this conversation has been about.
Regardless of the format any list is hard to follow for many reasons.
Make what you can and enjoy.
ginny

19) From: ginny
Paul:
Yes and no.  It started as something quite different and I did not mention "time" in my last post so you must have been thinking back to another when I did.
See what happens.
No big deal; I was just saying I love the list.
Have a great evening.
ginny

20) From: Mike Geis
Long ago I was on this list but stopped because it turned into a social 
clubwith vastly more posts than I wished to take the trouble to delete with=
 
no so many having anything useful to say about coffee, roasting it, brewing=
 
it, etc. So, when I thought I would give it another look, I got it in diges=
t 
form (which by the way, Tom, is nearly unreadable -- no, it is unreadable)=
 
because then I could take a quick look and then delete anywhere from 25-35=
 
posts at one click. Marvelous.
I read something about a threaded forum. That would be just the ticket. But=
 
as it is, it is nearly useless.
-- 
Mike

21) From: David Johnson
I must apologise as one who frequently drags things off topic. I will try
to do better.
<Snip>

22) From: Paul Goelz
At 04:50 PM 6/11/2005, you wrote:
<Snip>
Can your Email client sort the messages?  I use Eudora and sort all mail 
list traffic into a "mail list" mailbox.  I then have the mailbox set to 
sort on the subject line.  Works fine for me.  With a couple exceptions, 
all the posts line up with all the like subjects together just like a 
threaded BBS.
Paul
Paul Goelz
Rochester Hills, MI USA
paul at pgoelz dot com
www.pgoelz.com

23) From: Wandering Curmudgeon
Mike,
You get a free threaded forum when you use Google Mail.  If you would
like an invite just drop me a note off list.
The digest form has always had a terrible time with HTML in the posts.
 I have a friend that would off list me whenever I responded in HTML -
knowing that I didn't want to clobber the list.   The list should be
set to reject HTML.   My mail program accomplishes this for me, but I
don't do Windows.
BUT.. the list is FAR FAR from useless.  Non-coffee chatter is
essential in developing friendships on the list - friendships that
lead to PNWG-III or the Upcoming Texas or Iowa meets.
John - releasing the bandwidth to the more serious responders
On 6/11/05, Mike Geis  wrote:
<Snip>
th
<Snip>
ng
<Snip>
re
<Snip>
 
<Snip>

24) From: John Casey
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
for what it's worth, I'm using thunderbird as my email client, and you
can view the contents of this list in threads...then, you can choose to
ignore certain threads, and only display the rest...or, you can tell it
to only show threads that have unread messages.
I don't think the only solution is server-side. Many lists generate this
kind of traffic, and a good email client can go miles toward making them
manageable.
for what it's worth, of course.
- -john
Mike Geis wrote:
<Snip>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.6 (GNU/Linux)
iD8DBQFCrc1eK3h2CZwO/4URAuNqAKChhHRw7w3M4TzROvmp5i81v4XZWACdH1rm
YiROy7M2hj7Qn9LZ3/K56+I=
=ywSQ
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

25) From: Dan Bollinger
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Mike,  Set your software to 'Group Messages by Conversation.'  That way, =
you can just ignore the threads you don't like. If you complaining about =
the time it takes to delete posts then I suggest just ignoring the ones =
you don't want to read, since that is the method with the least time =
investment.  Or, use a dedicated newsgroup reader like Xnews.  Dan

26) From: Les
You guys are being too nice to Mike. I would say, get a life! This is a fun=
 
and educational list. If I want to be bored, I go and look at the Royal 
Coffee list and see all the coffees coming into port! If you want to see 
another group that has fun, go to the "toomuchcoffee" site. I get almost as=
 
much fun checking out the European group as I do on this list. This a full=
 
spectrum list. I like the way it has stretched and pushed me to try things=
 
that I wouldn't have considered had things been as narrowly defined as Mike=
 
seems to want the group. This new discussion on PIDing a pump????? My first=
 
thought, you're nuts! My pondering through the threads has me thinking a lo=
t 
more of what really happens with that pump kicks in and blasts hot water 
through the puck. So thanks again to the group for stretching me! If you 
want good cupping and coffee reading---just read Tom's great cupping 
reviews.
 Les
 On 6/13/05, Dan Bollinger  wrote: 
<Snip>
u 
<Snip>
 
<Snip>
 
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nt. 
<Snip>
 
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th 
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ng 
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est 
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) 
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5 
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27) From: tom ulmer
His subjective "nearly worthless" only makes him border-line malcontent and
barely worthy of fringe involvement...

28) From: Angelo
I actually think this list is totally worthless. That's why I'm here...
Angelo
Living a slow life in the fast lane....
<Snip>
-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.9 - Release Date: 6/11/2005

29) From: Brent - SC/TO Roasting
Ginny,
You're kidding?  You missed the big black letterson the signup?  :)
My raison d'etre is to stimulate Mike.  I thought it was a list
requirement!  Now, on to today's stimulation:
If an SCTO roaster leaves Philadelhpia at 350 deg. heading west to St.
Louis and an RK Drum roaster leaves Alberta with a roaring fire, how
long will it take for the blueberry to show in the Harrar?
-- 
Brent
Stimulating to the Last Drop!
Roasting in an SC/TO
For a Drip/Moka/Presspot Brew
On 6/13/05, ginny  wrote:
<Snip>
worthless we were, how we did not stimulate him (I do not remember anything=
 on the sign up page about stimulating Mike), why does he just not
<Snip>

30) From: Brett Mason
Watch out for that door - don't let it hit you on the way out.
You might also want to unsubscribe - we look forward to your formal
request for unsubscription...
Brett
On 6/11/05, Mike Geis  wrote:
<Snip>
th
<Snip>
ng
<Snip>
re
<Snip>
 
<Snip>
-- 
Regards,
Brett Mason
 HomeRoast
      __]_
   _(( )_  Please don't spill the coffee!

31) From: Martin Reuben
I've felt for a long time that the list was not worth the time.  Not  
so much for the content, which is often invaluable, but more for the  
impossible amount of quoting and especially the MIME garbage.
Why don't we just move this to a Yahoo group?
The days of text-based groups are LONG gone.
Tom - please do something about this.  It's long overdue.
Martin

32) From: Cedrick Stanton
Brett Mason wrote:
<Snip>
Hey, don't just dismiss what he had to say without considering it.
I used to post on here much more frequently than I do now (which is 
hardly ever), but I stopped because the amount of traffic the list gets 
now is more than I can handle.  There are still threads that interest 
me, but I have trouble sifting through all the mail that this homeroast 
list generates.  There's something about seeing 140 new messages in the 
homeroast folder that's intimidating. 
I guess where I differ from the original poster is that I think if I 
wanted to change the way a mailing list operates, the best way would be 
to dive in and start generating the kind of content I'd like to see, and 
hope that my participation would attract other like-minded folks.  I've 
never seen someone post something petulant like "This list sucks.  I 
think it should have different content." and have anything constructive 
come of it.
All the same - it was poorly phrased, but he has a good point.  If there 
was a web-based forum with a user-friendly interface, it would make it 
easier for casual list readers like myself to participate.  As things 
stand, the volume of traffic can be overwhelming.  I also don't think 
suggesting people start using Gmail is all that helpful.  I know I'm not 
about to stop using Thunderbird JUST so I can participate in this 
mailing list.  It's cool, but not worth changing my email habits over.
                                              --Cedrick

33) From: miKe mcKoffee
From: "Martin Reuben" 
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 1:33 PM
<Snip>
Oh boy, this again! (and don't blame me this time;-) If you've been on the 
List a long time as you say you should know Tom IS doing something about an 
alternative format: he's working to add a Forum style. (NOTE: add not 
replace!!!!)
Personally my favorite worthless list of the day comment was made by Angelo: 
"I actually think this list is totally worthless. That's why I'm here..."
Kona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee
3rd Annual Pacific Northwest Sweet Maria's Home Roasters Gathering infohttp://mdmint.home.comcast.net/pnwgIII.htmURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htm

34) From: Jason Brooks
<Snip>
Tag- I'm it.    Now, I understand what you are saying.  However, all
the world doesn't use HTML enabled mail apps.  Furthermore, email wasn't
built for HTML, that's the web.  The HTML only adds size without much
usable information.  If you ever have the chance, take a look at an HTML
message in pine, mutt, mail, or whatever.  Not pretty  at all!  There is
nothing wrong with plain text mail.
Respectfully,
Jason

35) From: tom ulmer
I am rather fond of text and have found it instrumental in effective written
communication... Then again I never understood why they called it a mouse...

36) From: Brett Mason
Hi Cedrick,
Of course, you are correct.  Well made points on this one...
Regards,
Brett Mason
P.S. that's 3 more emails I have contributed since the concern of too
many emails has been elevated....
On 6/13/05, Cedrick Stanton  wrote:
<Snip>
ribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>
-- 
Regards,
Brett Mason
 HomeRoast
      __]_
   _(( )_  Please don't spill the coffee!

37) From: Aaron
He's just mad because his left hand fell asleep on him :O
Most topics even the replies to them, have what the general thread, is 
in the header.  That key off to the right on your keyboard that says 
delete... Learn how to use it,  it is almost as functional as that 
elusive 'any' key.
Now on the off topic... but is it supposed to be ON topic,.. for being 
off / on / off topic.
List nearly worthless.  If you are anal retentive and demand just coffee 
and nothing else, then perhaps yes it is worthless.  We even have fights 
and disagreements and get snotty with each other, kind of like any other 
family / group / etc might do from time to time. God save us for acting 
like a normal group of over 3 people would.   Ovarall though if one can 
spare 5 minutes of their time to read through the letters, they 
generally can learn something.  It might  be something handy, it might 
be something educational, it might even just be a 'whoops' what NOT to do.
Sorry if we don't fit into your perfect little structured microcosym 
world you live in where everything is always on topic and not too hot,  
not too cold. but Juuuuust right.
Just out of curiosity though,  since you think the list is so worthless, 
why didn't you just quietly quit it, why announce how terrible all of us 
little children are acting?  Was that supposed to be some form of 
chastisement or something? Perhaps it was something to make you feel 
better about yourself or .. superior in some way  ::shrug::   Im just 
curious if I should feel bad, or say there's the door, don't let the 
door hit ya where the good lord split ya.
Aaron
ginny wrote:
<Snip>

38) From: Brett Mason
C'mon Aaron,
Don't be hard on the Stepford families, especially the Stepford wives!
Brett
On 6/13/05, Aaron  wrote:
<Snip>
.
<Snip>
 worthless we were, how we did not stimulate him (I do not remember anythin=
g on the sign up page about stimulating Mike), why does he just not
<Snip>
fun
<Snip>
 as
<Snip>
ll
<Snip>
gs
<Snip>
ike
<Snip>
rst
<Snip>
 lot
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ment.
<Snip>
with
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<Snip>
igest
<Snip>
le)
<Snip>
-35
<Snip>
cribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>
ribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>
-- 
Regards,
Brett Mason
 HomeRoast
      __]_
   _(( )_  Please don't spill the coffee!

39) From: Gene Smith
<Snip>
Me, too, Angelo...to both.  And the third one, too, come to think of it.
Gene Smith
still trying not to become road kill, in Houston

40) From: Gene Smith
<Snip>
I dunno, Brett...I was hoping for several of them, myself...
Gene Smith
riding the wild learning curve, in Houston

41) From: Connelley Barton
"Nobody knows when the Blueberry shows,  Nobody knows but me"
A paraphrase from "Love Grows (Where My Rosemary Goes)"
Edison Lighthouse - 1970
Connelley
(in Rural Nebraska)
On Jun 13, 2005, at 2:54 PM, Brent - SC/TO Roasting wrote:
<Snip>

42) From: Wandering Curmudgeon
Mike, 
   I'm sure you've heard the story about the guy joining a group where
all the jokes were so familiar that they assigned numbers to them to
save time.  Of course the poor butt of the joke stands up and yells 54
and gets a polite snicker - to which his host says - some people can
tell a joke - some can't.
   In light of that I think we should just assign numbers to some of
these constantly rehashed subjects like endo/exo/thermic, html, top or
bottom replies, leaving the list, etc.  We could then number the
responses like "oh I'm hurt" "don't let the door hit you" " I am not a
(fill in the blank)"    Then when I get all bent out of shape I can
just post a subject line of #6  and everyone can post their response
with #1  or #2  or #3 You heartless
slob!
  So,  214, 11, 9   and don't you ever do that again.
John - who's really a #19
On 6/13/05, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>
o
<Snip>
e
<Snip>
an
<Snip>
lo:
<Snip>
ribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>

43) From: Les
Here is some stimulation for poor Worthless Mike, If he is ever traveling=
 
the I-5 through Oregon, I will serve him a fine triple LM ristretto of Keny=
a 
Kora cinnamon roasted! That should get him going!
 Les
 On 6/13/05, Connelley Barton  wrote: 
<Snip>

44) From: Michael Vanecek
In most mail clients you can set it to threaded view. Just set a filter
to divert all homeroast mail to go into it's own folder (I do this with
all my groups), then view that folder in threaded view and select groups
of messages you wish to just delete. I'll admit - this is the only group
I'm on where occasionally and sometimes too often there's a slugfest
that should really be taken offlist, but there's still tons of useful
info here as well. At least with threading you can select the crap and
delete it and still get the benefits of the on-topic and constructive
discussion. There is, frankly, no other roasting list of quite the
caliber of Tom's list, interruptions of sanity notwithstanding - the
only reason I'm still here after over 4 years of watching the periodic
flaming soap opera unfold. I do hope you can overlook the occasional...
diversion... and remain to benefit from the coffee roasting discussion
that really does (I promise) occur here as well as contribute with your
own experiences...
Cheers,
Mike
--http://www.taroandti.com/http://www.mjv.com/
Mike Geis wrote:
<Snip>

45) From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Scott_Kou=E9?=
If he had said that the volume was a problem well that's one thing.  
But he said we weren't stimulating.  That's insulting.  I may be 
stupid, ignorant, an idiot, bad spelllr, short sighted But I always 
find myself stimulating.
Actually the volume is high and I often don't have time to read it so I 
delete messages en-mas, but not because of content.  I even like to 
read posts by people I don't agree with.  Mike's problem pretty much 
boils down to that he is not interested in the posts.  Well if that's 
so he should leave.  If I were bored by all of you I would leave.  It 
shouldn't be a big deal, you don't have to make a political statement.  
Just "it's been nice see ya around".
SK
On Jun 13, 2005, at 1:43 PM, Cedrick Stanton wrote:
<Snip>

46) From: Rick Copple
Cedrick Stanton wrote:
[snip]
<Snip>
I really have no idea why people have a problem. Most email programs 
will created threaded conversations and that makes them a whole lot 
easier to skip. I don't even bother deleting them, I might need them for 
searches in the future.
I use Thunderbird too. I have all the list mail sorted into a folder, 
and have it set to view by threads and only the unread ones. I skip 
threads I don't care to read or don't have time and focus on the ones 
that I do. Then when I'm done I right-click on the folder and select 
mark all as read. Boom, I'm starting fresh next time.
That is way simpler than most systems and way better than digest where 
you have to scan down through post and apparently it has problems with 
the HTML coding (I avoid that stuff anyway, don't like HTML in emails, 
just use text).
Thunderbird works great for reading this group and has plenty of 
management abilities to skip stuff you don't like. Better than a web 
based system because it is faster and you don't have to be on line to 
use it.
-- 
Rick Copple
Marble Falls, TX

47) From: Michael Douglas-Llyr
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b3JhbiCXClRoZSBMb25nIFJ1bgo=

48) From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Scott_Kou=E9?=
Well, this list averages 100-200 posts per day, around 1000+ per week.  
Personally I have it sent to a folder and view it threaded BUT that's a 
LOT of mail.  THe Sound designers forum that is VERY active is only 
around 20-30 per day, and thats a Yahoo group so I get the digest and 
skim the subjects.  My mail is set up so the server deletes downloaded 
mail after a week but when I work off site and pick up mail on the lap 
top I get a weeks worth of old messages - including 1000+ from this 
list.  Web mail sucks, especially when you have lots of mail to go 
through so for me that's not a solution.  Setting up a separate mail 
account would work I guess, and is poss now with our new hosting....
Anyway I have a fast connection so it's not a huge deal but if I were 
on dial-up having a 20 min "fetching" mail would drive me over the 
edge.
For folks who have the time and access to keep up with the list a few 
times in a day I'm sure this isn't much of a problem.  I think it's the 
folks who don't have the time and access that get swamped with email on 
a periodic basis.
To be clear I'm not advocating the list go away or whining, just 
answering your question.  Since I've been home a few days it's not a 
problem, but then I'm checking it 10-20 times a day.  Alas I will have 
to start working again.
SK
On Jun 14, 2005, at 1:49 AM, Rick Copple wrote:
<Snip>

49) From: Gene Smith
<Snip>
I think the sharp response is precisely *because* we bullies don't feel 
like "every argument is worth having."  If I had a buck for every "you 
people are doing it all wrong - but fortunately for you, I'm going to tell 
you how to improve it - assuming you're smart enough to take my advice and 
implement it" post, I wouldn't need to defend my el cheapo thrift store 
grinder any more.  I'd just go buy a Rocky, improve my coffee immensely 
*and* add another topic to the list of things I can bully people about.
I'm willing to propose a counter-conclusion: Not every argument is worth 
responding to in a patient and rational manner.  I don't know about the 
other folks in this forum, but I learned my "netiquette" by making a fool 
and/or jackass of myself.  Nor do I claim my education is over...but my 
point is that most of my "online education" did not come from lists of 
proper virtual behavior or patient and caring discussions from people I'd 
offended.
What I mostly found out was that flaming people made me feel worse than I 
was able to make them feel.  Perhaps my sharpest "lesson" was ripping some 
fellow a new one on a Red Dwarf list...only to have him respond 
apologetically, explaining that he was dyslexic and had misunderstood what 
was being discussed.  Hey Look Everybody!  I've made myself microscopically 
small!
I'm not arguing for cruel responses...but if someone is wearing a "Kick Me" 
sign, I am going to mention it.  If I find out that it is not some cruel 
trick played on them, but they have proudly adorned themselves with it, I 
am tempted to follow Brother Dave Gardner's advice: "And I say, Dear 
Hearts, when a man is down...kick him!  Give him the strength to rise above 
you!"
Gene Smith
riding the wild learning curve, in Houston

50) From: Peter Zulkowski
The scary part to me is that I just think I have different opinions,
then I learn that I don't,
but I try to anyway,
then the hurrieder I go the behinder I get,
and I never notice any bullies, just folks having fun.
It is nice to have found a list where folks are as different but still 
the same as I
Hope I have not offended anyone, or sounded like a bully.
PeterZ
Getting ready to roast some more Harrar, here in LHC
Michael Douglas-Llyr wrote:
<Snip>

51) From: Maryann & Dave Schellenberg
I suspect you're saying something profound here, Gene. I just don't 
understand what it is.
You say, "I'm not arguing for cruel responses...but", and then go on to 
tell us about the benefits of cruel responses.
When I try to recall the names of those whose responses have been 
cutting, I don't see your name in that list.
Perhaps because it wasn't threaded!
Should all of this have had a big bold (i!) after it, or before it, or 
something?
Dave S.
Gene Smith wrote:
<Snip>

52) From: tom ulmer
Brute (i!)
-admin] On Behalf Of Peter Zulkowski
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 12:26 PM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +This list has become nearly worthless
Hope I have not offended anyone, or sounded like a bully.

53) From: J.W.Bullfrog
wait a minute!  That makes at least my half-brother.  I don't remember 
volunteering for this!
ginny wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Life in the fast lane ......
It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the juice of aribica that thoughts acquire speed,
the lips acquire stains.
The stains become a warning.
It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.

54) From: Gene Smith
<Snip>
Yes, Sis...but it's secret.
Gene Smith
threading the wild learning curve, in Houston

55) From: Angelo
But seriously folks,....I would like to ask these people who are so 
"overwhelmed" by OT posts if they ever asked a strictly roasting question 
which wasn't answered (almost to the point of nauseam)? Anyone wanna PID a 
water pump?
The people on this list might bicker, rail, and rant, but let's face it, 
it's a list propelled by CAFFEINE, for Odin's sake. Would they be surprised 
if they went on a heroin list and found very few emails, and those kinda 
trailing off...?
Two of the people on the list who are the most "controversial" in the 
rancor dept are also two of the most generous people I've come across on 
the net, who have given of their time, expertise and many, many gifts 
(traditions)..Why do I keep thinking of Don Ameche and Frances Langford....?
Maybe, because there are so many older people ( was gonna say "mature", but 
thought better of it ) on this list, we're not in so much of a rush to get 
the answer spoon fed to us in 25 words or less. We've learned that 
sometimes "the answer" is in the ancillary information.
To those who think this list is worthless, I would ask them to point out 
another list where the people are so helpful when asked......To the point 
of making "house calls" to get a noob on the right track.
Frankly, if you don't like the way this list evolved, goodbye to you and 
the horse you rode in on....
Angelo
Btw, can anyone tell me where i can get blueberry flavored, 2% soy/rice 
milk for my Latte/latte....?
<Snip>
-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.7.2/14 - Release Date: 6/14/2005

56) From: Brent - SC/TO Roasting
Any way I can get upgraded to bully?  Have been kind of stagnating in
the malcontent pool.  If the upgrade to bully involves performing
imitations of Teddy Roosevelt, I will have to politely decline.
-- 
Brent
Treading the Wild Burning Nerve
Roasting in an SC/TO
For a Drip/Moka/Presspot Brew
On 6/14/05, Gene Smith  wrote:
<Snip>

57) From: Gene Smith
<Snip>
I think I'm arguing against unnecessary cruelty...but also against 
unnecessary kindness, Dave.  If people will insist (and some do) on being 
belligerent know-it-alls, then I'm still willing to turn the other 
cheek...but it may not be the one they were hoping to find staring them in 
the face.
To put it slightly differently, I don't go out of my way to be nasty to 
people, but I take that "not casting your pearls before swine" injunction 
seriously, too.
It has been my experience that some folks really just want an argument.  If 
they are of the passive/aggressive persuasion, after thumbing their nose at 
all and sundry, they then retreat into "hey, can't you take a joke?" or 
they pretend that they were seriously looking for information and 
enlightenment when they were sorely abused by cruel and unfeeling people. 
This sort of pathetic message invariably ends with another jab of some 
sort - to insure that the behavior they claim to be the victim of 
continues.
Some folks just like to be angry, apparently.  However, I have *never* come 
across an anger-phile who will admit to this.  Nope, they are just 
constantly being ill-treated by practically everyone for no discernable 
reason, and - much as they would prefer for everyone to happily get along - 
once again, they are forced to STRIKE BACK!
Really, the truth is that most of us aren't nearly as original or clever as 
we imagine.  Which is why that website on email-list types is so 
funny...and so accurate.
Oh, yeah...forgot one *really* important type: the folks for whom 
practically everything is about how things would be so much better if 
everyone else in the known universe would just stop being a dunce and do 
things their way.  The self-appointed ambassadors from the world of The Way 
Things Ought To Be I feel completely justified in abusing if it amuses me 
to do so.
Gene Smith
threading the wild learning curve, in Houston

58) From: The Scarlet Wombat
You can easily perform imitations of Teddy Roosevelt, I do it every 
day.  Didn't he say "Speak softly and carry a big espresso?"
Dan

59) From: Will
On Tuesday, June 14, 2005, at 11:56 AM, Angelo wrote:
<Snip>
I suppose there are those who'd like to have it both ways.
When my whirley-pop went goodbye, I got some good advice here on wok 
roasting. It was quite helpful since I'm not particularly fond of air 
roasting. There just aren't that many places on the web where such 
unusual expertise exists. I sure couldn't get it hanging outside of a 
Starbucks. And I really appreciated it. Then I asked a question on the 
role of water vapor in roasting. No responses. Instead the list went on 
for 40 or 50 posts about some $20 drip pot that you can apparently find 
in just about every big box store in the country. And it was all posted 
here, one excruciating store at a time. I decided the list was more 
interested in discussing equipment than water vapor. Which was fair 
enough. Though I was disappointed, since I am still interested in water 
vapor, given it must work a lot differently in air poppers than in 
convection roasters.
On the other hand, pertinent to this thread, there are quite literally 
hundreds of chatty posts here per week. I'm reminded of the birds 
singing: "I'm here, Where are you? I'm here, Where are you?" I didn't 
count the opinions on Michael Jackson or even the posts in this thread 
that basically say: I agree, I do too, me too, me too, me too. But they 
are there. This social signing seems to account for perhaps 70% of the 
list volume. That takes a while to get used to.
Now the answer to criticism isn't to say "F**k off"... go away if you 
don't like it." Though we should admit that is the list's current 
tendency. The answer might be to explain why the chatty posts are 
meaningful and why you might want to read them.
So far one person has taken that approach in this series of threads.
Now I suppose I shall duck.

60) From: J.W.Bullfrog
ginny wrote:
<Snip>
:-(
<Snip>
-- 
Life in the fast lane ......
It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the juice of aribica that thoughts acquire speed,
the lips acquire stains.
The stains become a warning.
It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.

61) From: Gary Townsend
 Gene Smith  wrote:
<Snip>
e"
<Snip>
ve
<Snip>
Thanks, Gene! 
I had to fetch the bottle of Windex and some clean paper towels to
wipe off the spray on the monitor at work. I needed a good laugh, and
you always come through.
Gary, happily spending my lunch time with *worthless* people(-;

62) From: Brett Mason
Too tempting!
I can't count that high - so I click "NEXT" and go to the next thread...
Cause I like GMail!
Brett
On 6/14/05, Will  wrote:
<Snip>
ribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>
-- 
Regards,
Brett Mason
 HomeRoast
      __]_
   _(( )_  Please don't spill the coffee!

63) From: tom ulmer
Now the answer to criticism isn't to say "F**k off".
I will differ with you there as sometimes that indeed is the way to deal
with it.
Now, on to water vapor which I feel is clearly a preferential item in
roasting. Obviously there are those that feel quite strongly about air or
fluid bed roasters. For me there is nothing that creates the flavor profile
that I like except solid container roasting...  
A hypothesis about the role of water vapor... 
There is a difference in my roasts with high and low relative humidity.  I
don't know whether anyone else notices this. I too am curious. 
Do you have any observations?
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Will
Then I asked a question on the 
role of water vapor in roasting. I decided the list was more 
interested in discussing equipment than water vapor. Which was fair 
enough. Though I was disappointed, since I am still interested in water 
vapor, given it must work a lot differently in air poppers than in 
convection roasters.

64) From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Scott_Kou=E9?=
This sound like a merging of the coffee reformation thread with this 
one.  It's what the other thread needed a Bully Pulpit..
SK
On Jun 14, 2005, at 9:56 AM, Brent - SC/TO Roasting wrote:
<Snip>

65) From: Brent - SC/TO Roasting
Will brings up a good point about recycled subject lines.  Folks are
pretty good about changing the subject line (gmail doesn't make it as
easy as they could, tho).
But it can be frustrating to post a question, eagerly await responses
that will help improve your roasting/brewing technique and, instead,
get a bunch of messages about how  kopi luwak breaks down the finish
of bone china.
-- 
Brent
Roasting in an SC/TO
For a Drip/Moka/Presspot Brew
On 6/14/05, Will  wrote:
<Snip>

66) From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Scott_Kou=E9?=
You say it but you don't really men it.
We should have a poll to find out how many got that reference.
OTR is another passtime.
SK
On Jun 14, 2005, at 9:56 AM, Angelo wrote:
<Snip>

67) From: John Blumel
On Jun 14, 2005, at 3:01 pm, Brent - SC/TO Roasting wrote:
<Snip>
Well, we've had some rather heated discussions on water vapor in the  
past.
However, as Brent pointed out, failure to change the subject for an  
off-subject reply early in the life of a thread can sometimes quickly  
distract attention from the original question. I would suggest that,  
when this happens, the best thing to do is start a new thread with a  
new subject and repost the question, mentioning that it seems to have  
been overlooked in the original post. There are few thing that  
someone doesn't have an opinion on.
John Blumel

68) From: John Blumel
On Jun 13, 2005, at 12:50 pm, Paul Goelz wrote:
<Snip>
As Angelo wrote long ago:
<Snip>
John Blumel

69) From: Gary Townsend
, Brett Mason  wrote:
<Snip>
I just like having my own personal archive, My goal is to fill up my
Gmail account, so I can *complain* to the gmail people that I need
more space for my stuff!
 You are currently using 410 MB (18%) of your 2295 MB.
I group everything I find interesting.
The search bar is easy enough to use by typing in a few keywords. 
And it's free. I like free.

70) From: Gene Smith
<Snip>
You *do* have to join the Bull Moose Party, Brent...but TR impressions are 
optional (and discouraged, if you can't do a good one).
Gene Smith
threading the wild learning curve, in Houston

71) From: Gene Smith
<Snip>
The instant that I experience low humidity in Houston, Tom, I'll let you 
know.
Gene Smith
threading the wild learning curve, in Houston

72) From: Gene Smith
<Snip>
Funny, Angelo...funny!  Reminds me of the one about the guys trying to get 
marijuana legalized...and kept losing the petition.
Gene Smith
who has lost a couple of petitions in his time

73) From: Gene Smith
<Snip>
It does?  Oh, crap!
Gene Smith
forced to deal with the wrong end of cats quite enough already, thank you, 
in Houston

74) From: Rick Copple
Hi Scott,
I think that is a different issue than what I was addressing 
specifically. At some point. sheer volume can become an issue depending 
on how much time one has. However, when it comes to using something 
other than Thunderbird (or most any email program on my computer) to 
look at things on the web, I don't see the advantages in that. I even 
have my gmail account popped into this program. I have it for other 
reasons than so I can see it threaded on the web.
I just obtained broadband service this month for the first time at home. 
In all the time I used dial up, the only time it took anywhere close to 
20 minutes to download email was if someone put some giant attachment 
onto it. I'm on several list, two of which this one is one that is 
fairly high volume, and it always downloaded within 5-10 minutes at the 
most, and usually less than 5. Probably averaged out to closer to 3 
minutes. So I doubt that is a big issue.
However, everyone has their own volume line where it becomes too much 
work for the value, and each person has to evaluate for themselves when 
even using threaded views or whatever still means they spend too much 
time. Most people won't announce that to the list though, if they say 
anything it will be just "I've gotta go, been nice talking to you" and 
they leave.
However, if it is threaded post you need, I still don't see what the big 
deal is about Gmail, in general. You can do basically the same thing on 
your email program and have it all in one place and all searchable. Some 
people like having it off their hard drives (limited on space) or other 
considerations, but if you want it threaded, it is just as easy to do 
that in your email program. I think most of them will do that. That's 
much more flexible to me. That's why I'm not sure why people have a 
problem with it.
--
Rick Copple
Marble Falls, TX
Scott Koué wrote:
<Snip>

75) From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Scott_Kou=E9?=
I have this list go to it's own folder and it's threaded and I have 
DSL.  I wasn't complaining but responding to a post that said "I really 
have no idea why people have a problem".  The volume is an issue for 
some.  Dial up and DSL vary wildly in speed depending on a whole lot of 
factors.  When my aunt used to send snap shots I had 45 minute 
downloads some times.  On a very fast DSL at one studio it takes about 
three or four minutes to download a weeks worth of this list, which is 
a long time in a studio to be stuck waiting for mail to finish.  I 
guess my limit may be low?  But this list tripled the amount of mail I 
receive in a day (and thats counting spam!).
SK
On Jun 15, 2005, at 12:57 AM, Rick Copple wrote:
<Snip>

76) From: Brett Mason
Choices choices....  Life is so hard for people who have to choose...
I checked the US Constitution, and computer sense is not a right
established therein.  Nor is it purchaseable on eBay.
Same with fast or slow email, as well as list membership or unsubscription.
ON THE OTHER HAND,
Whining is not a right, nor is it prohibited, and thus we allow it...
THEREFORE,
I put up with the whining and complaining, and nary a peep from me
about dissident emails clogging up my system...
THANK YOU ALL
who fight for the folks that can't find their delete key, or their
options and preferences selections on their own computers.
RTFM to all
Brett
On 6/15/05, Scott Koué  wrote:
<Snip>
ribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>
-- 
Regards,
Brett Mason
 HomeRoast
      __]_
   _(( )_  Please don't spill the coffee!

77) From: Wandering Curmudgeon
On 6/15/05, Brett Mason  wrote:
<Snip>
ip]
<Snip>
Would that be the karma sutra?

78) From: Brent - SC/TO Roasting
I only read the articles.  No.  Really.  Just the articles.
-- 
Brent
Roasting in an SC/TO
For a Drip/Moka/Presspot Brew
On 6/15/05, Wandering Curmudgeon  wrote:
<Snip>

79) From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Scott_Kou=E9?=
Not to be personal but are you unable to read???
Lets follow this last bit of  the thread, Ill go slow.
Rick: I have no Idea why any one would have a problem
Scott: the volume is an issue for some
Rick: you can use threaded email and folders, it doesn't take to long 
for me.
Scott: Volume is an issue for some, you asked
Now we get you with a snide email that has nothing to do with what you =
are responding to (it would have been OK as a post to this long and 
winding thread but you quoted us so one assumes you would at least took =
the time to read what your commenting on!) and basically says if you 
don't like it, your internet speed is your choice and RTFM???   What 
does the Fing manual have to do with it.
It's great that you have the time to sit and read you mail all day, at =
the moment I do also or I wouldn't even be responding.  But If you are =
not able to go through the mail for a day or two and get hit with 
200-400 emails that's a LOT.  It has nothing to do with content or the =
delete key or threaded lists or folders.  It doesn't matter how skilled =
at the computer you are it is still 200-400 emails.
If your going to be insulting then at least be funny.
And who said this wasn't stimulating
SK
On Jun 15, 2005, at 8:53 AM, Brett Mason wrote:
<Snip>
<Snip>
about
<Snip>
is
<Snip>
I
<Snip>
in
<Snip>
<Snip>
one
<Snip>
<Snip>
much
<Snip>
too
<Snip>
(limited
<Snip>
is
<Snip>

80) From: miKe mcKoffee
From: "Scott Koué" 
Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 8:40 AM
<Snip>
As of course does the non-stop continuing discussion of why there's too much 
OT not coffee related posts and the various ways to filter and folder it 
continually add to the not coffee related posts(i!)
Just finished a naked triple PRYS shot Cap' with right nice silky 
incorporated foam texture for a lame excuse of on topic. Beginning 
explorations of the various traditional espresso beverages at the proper 
time of day;-) Am I up to trying to build a macchiato next!
Kona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee
3rd Annual Pacific Northwest Sweet Maria's Home Roasters Gathering infohttp://mdmint.home.comcast.net/pnwgIII.htmURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htm

81) From: Angelo
Scott,
I left a clue in the beginning, more than this I won't do...:-)
Ciao,
Angelo
<Snip>
-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.7.3/15 - Release Date: 6/14/2005

82) From: Angelo
John,
If he wants "water vapor" posts, perhaps you can point him to the 213 posts 
about the (non) /effects of soaking/steaming beans prior to roasting... hahaha
Angelo
<Snip>
-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.7.3/15 - Release Date: 6/14/2005

83) From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Scott_Kou=E9?=
you know with out getting the digest it's just too hard to quote every =
email.
I'll try to do better next time.
To roast, to roast it's off to roast I go....
SK
On Jun 15, 2005, at 10:06 AM, ginny wrote:
<Snip>
took
<Snip>
skilled
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
anywhere
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
the
<Snip>
<Snip>

84) From: Brett Mason
Hi Scott,
Yep, I took readin lessons...  Didn't see you in the class though.
Check the thread - Started with comments about the list being useless,
and the need for a threaded forum, and that as is, the list is
useless.
Pardon me, but some of us pointed out, directly, how to thread the
list, with a variety of software, which will take the list from
USELESS to USEFUL.
What does that have to do with the Fing manual?  Well, for one, the
Fing manual would help the poor soul who can't get a threaded solution
with the current list.
But Scott, I digress, cause you probably can't read this far anyway...
Brett
On 6/15/05, Scott Koué  wrote:
<Snip>
ribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>
-- 
Regards,
Brett Mason
 HomeRoast
      __]_
   _(( )_  Please don't spill the coffee!

85) From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Scott_Kou=E9?=
Well ah lets see????
On Jun 15, 2005, at 10:32 AM, Brett Mason wrote:
<Snip>
<Snip>
By gawd it works!
;~)
SK

86) From: Wandering Curmudgeon
On 6/15/05, Scott Koué  wrote:
[snip - personal]
<Snip>
This would be one of the reasons people recommend Gmail.  On Gmail
there is no download time for retrieving the mail.  400 emails - no
problem  do an archive all or scan for the one that look interesting
and label - read later - then archive all.
<Snip>
Missed your humor here also  But then I'm not the brightest bulb on
the string. But I saw the post as totally tongue in cheek - probably
why he sounds that way too.

87) From: John Blumel
On Jun 15, 2005, at 2:18 pm, Wandering Curmudgeon wrote:
<Snip>
Perhaps you'd like to qualify this statement in some way before it's  
pointed out that this isn't possible?
John Blumel

88) From: Wandering Curmudgeon
Meaning that when I open the web page all of my email is alread
sitting there, threaded and waiting on me to read, archive or delte. 
I don't have to go through the POP server and wait as it downloads 400
messages - which would take a long while.
I'm not paid to sell anything John.  It was an expression of my view
on why I like using Gmail.
On 6/15/05, John Blumel  wrote:
<Snip>
ribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>

89) From: John Blumel
On Jun 15, 2005, at 2:37 pm, Wandering Curmudgeon wrote:
<Snip>
Of course not.
However, to read a message using the gmail web interface, you still  
have to download it. The only difference is that you download it via  
HTTP rather than POP. It might even take a bit longer since mail  
headers are usually fairly short and HTML adds at least as much  
overhead, if not more.
Now, of course, you may be able to read the subject lines of messages  
using gmail without downloading the entire message but this isn't a  
limitation of POP (or IMAP) but simply not something that is  
supported by many (POP or IMAP) mail clients.
Still, you can only guess at what is in those messages without  
downloading them -- as I am sure you know very well.
John Blumel

90) From: Wandering Curmudgeon
You know John trying to communicate a simple point of view to you is
beyond my limited skills.  I'll make you a promise - won't happen
again.  Filter set.
On 6/15/05, John Blumel  wrote:
<Snip>
ribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>

91) From: miKe mcKoffee
But Ginny, by replying and not changing or modifying the subject line you 
hung onto this thread that will not die even longer than Scott! And since I 
replied to your reply I kept this stupid thread going even longer than you 
did!-)
Does that mean I win?
But if you reply again then does it means you win?!
Personally I'd prefer purple.
Kona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee
3rd Annual Pacific Northwest Sweet Maria's Home Roasters Gathering infohttp://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmFrom: "ginny" ">http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/pnwgIII.htmURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmFrom: "ginny" 
Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 11:52 AM
Scott:
I just wanted you to know that you are the first, read number one, to 
receive the:
Twisted Pink Panty Award
This award is given to the idiot who seems to hang on the longest to a dead 
subject!
You win.
ginny
send me your address and your award will be sent asap.

92) From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Scott_Kou=E9?=
Hmm, actually I think some may be more deserving.  I'm sorry I answered =
the question.
But On the bright side, TREATS!
So are these panties washed?  And is the twist permanent or do I have 
to periodically re twist them.  Is pink the only color because it 
doesn't go with a think I own?  And what are my shipping options.
I thought they had you on a chain gang in Oregon, are you on the lam?  =
If so you can always hide out here, providing you get the panties to 
me.
TPPA WINNER
SK
On Jun 15, 2005, at 11:52 AM, ginny wrote:
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>

93) From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Scott_Kou=E9?=
We better take this off list....
I never cared for lam much, even with mint jelly
TPPA
SK
On Jun 15, 2005, at 12:55 PM, ginny wrote:
<Snip>

94) From: Paul Goelz
At 12:50 PM 6/13/2005, you wrote:
<Snip>
OK, is it me?  Am I being moderated?  I posted this on Monday and just got 
it from the list today (Wednesday afternoon).  Kinda makes any sort of 
conversation pretty impossible......
Paul
Paul Goelz
Rochester Hills, MI USA
paul at pgoelz dot com
www.pgoelz.com

95) From: Douglas H. Boutell
Ginny,
You are dealing  mostly with men on the list and
Women will never be equal to men
until they can walk down the street with
a bald head and a beer gut,
and still think they are attractive to the opposite sex.
Doug
ginny wrote:
<Snip>

96) From: Paul Goelz
At 06:36 PM 6/15/2005, you wrote:
<Snip>
I thought the discussion was about the lack of threading.  I don't recall 
seeing any other posts concerning propagation time issues.  Or did I miss 
something?
As my original post said (somewhat belatedly), I don't have any threading 
issues.  I simply sort subject lines alphabetically and the posts (for the 
most part) get "threaded".
I for one also prefer the Email format.  But if I had an Email client that 
could not sort, I guess I would be agitating to move to a BBS type 
format..... that, or looking for a new Email client.  ;)
Paul
Paul Goelz
Rochester Hills, MI
paul at pgoelz dot comhttp://www.pgoelz.com

97) From: Justin Marquez
On 6/14/05, Gene Smith  wrote:
<Snip>
We lived in Houston area for just a shade under 30 years. I think I
can recall humidity below 30% only twice and the ambient temperatuer
was about 105 at the same time.  Whatta climate!  One distinct
advantage is that you can go nearly anywhere on the earth and be more
comfortable outside. (New Orleans quickly comes to mind as one place
less comfortable than Houston.)
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (Snyder, TX)http://www.justinandlinda.com

98) From: Rick Copple
Scott Koué wrote:
<Snip>
Howdy Scott,
Well, let's try this again, I guess I didn't state it well.
I made the comment (I think you know that, but just so everyone else is 
aware) that "I really have no idea why people have a problem." Here is 
the original post that where I said that and what I was responding to:
---- begin quote -----
Cedrick Stanton wrote:
[snip]
 > I also don't think suggesting people start using Gmail is all that 
helpful.  I know I'm not about to stop using Thunderbird JUST so I can 
participate in this mailing list.  It's cool, but not worth changing my 
email habits over.
I really have no idea why people have a problem. Most email programs 
will created threaded conversations and that makes them a whole lot 
easier to skip. I don't even bother deleting them, I might need them for 
searches in the future.
----- end quote ------
That phrase wasn't about anything other than why anyone would have a 
problem using Thunderbird to thread or not thread an email, why someone 
would need to give up Thunderbird to use gmail on the web just to have 
threaded messages. You can do that in Thunderbird.
The volume issue was separate even if related to the thread in general, 
and my wordiness probably obscured that point. I wasn't saying I have no 
idea why people would have a problem with volume. Even with threaded 
emails, a list can get so heavy with emails that you spend more time 
than you have for the value you get out of that. Each person has to 
judge that for themselves. That, however, wasn't what I was wondering 
why anyone would have a problem.
OK, now I'll try to stop adding to the deluge! ;-)
--
Rick Copple
Marble Falls, TX


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