HomeRoast Digest


Topic: The Cost of a Shot of Espresso and Mea Culpas con Crow (18 msgs / 535 lines)
1) From: Brent - SC/TO Roasting
Well, after "asking to see the numbers", getting no acceptable response, =
and
having my math abilities brought into question, I set out to get an idea =
of
the cost to make a shot of espresso at home.  This is only a general =
idea by
someone who's (obviously) consumed too much espresso.
I used the average cost of a pound of coffee from SweetMaria's ($5 based =
on
an average of 2 lb. bags!), median national electrical cost of $.09/kWh, =
an
average cost of $.72/gallon for filtered or bottled water.  I included =
time
to roast and brew; water needed to prime, brew and clean; electricity
required to roast and brew (based only on my equipment).  And I included
labor (federal minium wage) to roast and brew.  To fairly compare the =
cost
of the homeroaster vs. the commercial proprietor, I believe labor has to =
be
factored in.
I assumed only one shot was made, assumed 20 minutes total of roast and =
brew
time, did not factor in waste of grounds or water, did not factor in =
warm up
time in labor (warm up time included in electrical calculation).
The cost for a shot, including labor, came to $2.18.
The cost for a shot, excluding labor, came to $0.48.
So an argument could be made that it is possible to make a shot for =
under
$.50.
I did not include incidentals (such as rent, insurance, training,
amortization of equipment, benefits, training, etc.) which would add to =
the
cost but probably isn't a big consideration for the homeroaster (maybe =
an
additional one cent).  Just a rough and dirty.
So, my apologies for not believing a shot could be made for under fitty
cents.  While striving for even-handedness and not getting too detailed, =
I
think if all factors were added in to make a truly equitable comparison, =
it
would be above the fitty cent mark.
Brent
Showing What Too Much Coffee Does to a Person
Roasting in an SC/TO

2) From: Brett Mason
How do you pay yourself for each shot?  I keep looking for my pile of
money, and it turns out my labor to pull my shot is free.
On the other hand, have you run the same formula against sleeping,
showering, taking out the trash, etc?  Life itself may be too
expensive for you.
Time for one of those matchbook offers.... "Finish your life at home,
in your spare time, for free!"
It would probably be easier to calculate the discrete costs, rather
than the theoretical costs.
Nope, I am not going to reimburse anybody for the labor to read this
email thread.....
Life is WAY TOO SHORT ...
Cheers,
With almost free espresso!
Brett
On 7/5/05, Brent - SC/TO Roasting  wrote:
<Snip>
and
<Snip>
of
<Snip>
 by
<Snip>
on
<Snip>
an
<Snip>
me
<Snip>
t
<Snip>
be
<Snip>
rew
<Snip>
 up
<Snip>
he
<Snip>
I
<Snip>
it
<Snip>
ribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>
-- 
Regards,
Brett Mason
 HomeRoast
      __]_
   _(( )_  Please don't spill the coffee!

3) From: Zara Haimo
<Snip>
be
<Snip>
This sounds like one of those dubious calculations where the average
housewife would be worth $150K if only someone were to pay her a fair
salary.  I keep waiting for my check to come in the mail....
I just know that every time I get a latte at Peets, I'm about $4 poorer just
paying for the latte and a tip. However, to do a fair comparison your way,
each time I bought a Peets latte I'd also have to factor in my travel costs
including my car, insurance, gas, and maintenance.  Plus I'd have to add in
my time to travel there, wait in line, etc. at my usual high hourly rate
(see above).  Then, there is the stress of drinking burnt coffee and the
shame if a friend sees me there so I have to pretend it's only emergency
caffeine - all this leads to increased psychiatric bills, plus I also have
to factor in my costs and time to get to the psychiatrist.
Gee, that Peets latte is getting way too expensive!

4) From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Scott_Kou=E9?=
Well now to be fair I think the labor can't really be factored for 
personal use, but it is interesting to a general cost comparison and to 
remove the delusion that you could make money out of your house as a 
cafe.  Also if you live in California you can count on a considerably 
higher electric bill.  And one really should include amortized 
equipment since that is a cost solely connected to your home espresso 
habit.  Now personally my formula was a lot simpler since I was buying 
roasted coffee.  So my formula was cost of roaster + greens + 
electricity VS buying from a roaster.  It's a bunch cheaper to roast 
your own.  Now if I add the stomach medicines I no longer need since 
roasting my own (turns out the milk/cream I found nec. to cut the acid 
in the commercially roasted coffee was a major culprit - who knew) the 
savings is considerable.
The point is, I guess, if your just trying to save money, don't drink 
coffee.  If your roasting because your looking for quality then the 
value point is completely personal.  For me I would have paid extra to 
get what I'm roasting for less.  I will probably move up to some form 
of drum roaster because it sounds like it will roast more to my taste 
and I want to do bigger batches.  That move will eliminate any savings 
for a number of years, but that's OK.  In the long run I'll probably 
spend about the same as I would have but I will be getting MUCH better 
coffee.  I mean if your home espresso cost exactly the same as star$ 
which would you drink?
SK
On Jul 5, 2005, at 9:11 PM, Brett Mason wrote:
<Snip>

5) From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Scott_Kou=E9?=
Another Bay Area Peets refugee.  The real shame would be coming out of 
CostCo with a bag of star$.....
SK
On Jul 5, 2005, at 9:59 PM, Zara Haimo wrote:
<Snip>

6) From: miKe mcKoffee
The numbers don't and never did work for me. Not for home roasting or 
espresso. And never was the point either. Some do indeed make very cheap 
(low low cost) *$ type beverages taking stuff out of a can of Foulgers, 
brewing with a steam toy (improperly at that), adding nuked milked and 
flavored syrups and are happy with it. Personally I never did, never will. I 
didn't get into home roasting for "cheap" coffee, I didn't get into espresso 
for "cheap" espresso. It's was about taste and quality from the git go. I 
don't try to emulate the "taste & quality" of 99cent burgers at home either. 
Fairly factor all the costs including time and quite likely home espresso 
beverages might even cost more, and be much better then the vast majority 
out there.
Kona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmFrom: "Brent - SC/TO Roasting" 
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 9:05 PM
Well, after "asking to see the numbers", getting no acceptable response, and
having my math abilities brought into question, I set out to get an idea of
the cost to make a shot of espresso at home.  This is only a general idea by
someone who's (obviously) consumed too much espresso.
I used the average cost of a pound of coffee from SweetMaria's ($5 based on
an average of 2 lb. bags!), median national electrical cost of $.09/kWh, an
average cost of $.72/gallon for filtered or bottled water.  I included time
to roast and brew; water needed to prime, brew and clean; electricity
required to roast and brew (based only on my equipment).  And I included
labor (federal minium wage) to roast and brew.  To fairly compare the cost
of the homeroaster vs. the commercial proprietor, I believe labor has to be
factored in.
I assumed only one shot was made, assumed 20 minutes total of roast and brew
time, did not factor in waste of grounds or water, did not factor in warm up
time in labor (warm up time included in electrical calculation).
The cost for a shot, including labor, came to $2.18.
The cost for a shot, excluding labor, came to $0.48.
So an argument could be made that it is possible to make a shot for under
$.50.
I did not include incidentals (such as rent, insurance, training,
amortization of equipment, benefits, training, etc.) which would add to the
cost but probably isn't a big consideration for the homeroaster (maybe an
additional one cent).  Just a rough and dirty.
So, my apologies for not believing a shot could be made for under fitty
cents.  While striving for even-handedness and not getting too detailed, I
think if all factors were added in to make a truly equitable comparison, it
would be above the fitty cent mark.
Brent
Showing What Too Much Coffee Does to a Person
Roasting in an SC/TO

7) From: tom ulmer
SO what is the perceived cost of not indulging yourself in epicurean
delights? 
I guess you could make an argument that it makes economic sense to become
hermit and to give up all pleasures of the mind and flesh.

8) From: Dan Bollinger
<Snip>
$.50.
Brent,  Thanks for doing this analysis!  I often work up simple comparatives
and proformas like this at work to help in decision making.  Like you say,
you could spend more time and make the analysis more accurate, but since
that wouldn't change the result by a few pennies, it won't change any
decision you might make either.
I think factoring in labor is important. That way, you can compare your cost
to the price of a cup elsewhere, if cost is your determining factor in
making coffee at home.  In business, what you have done is called
'opportunity cost.'  It's quite simple, you just estimate the cost for each
'opportunity' and compare.
For people who consider roasting and making coffee a hobby or labor-of-love,
then removing the labor cost is equally valid.
Dan

9) From: Pecan Jim Gundlach
<Snip>
If you are going to add the cost of labor to the home shot  
calculation, you should add the cost of time and transportation to  
the cost of a *$ for comparison.   For me the round trip to the  
closest *$ is 64 miles and adds a little more than an hour to the  
labor time.   I charge $70.00 an hour for consultation, if it is  
legal work I double it.  In general I think the addition of labor  
cost does not make sense.
      Jim Gundlach

10) From: Gene Smith
<Snip>
Well, sort of valid...  We have a great variety of homeroasters on this 
list and more than occasionally suffer from the inability or disinclination 
of a few to realize that everyone does not enjoy (or endure) similar 
circumstances.
Those who are retired...or gentlemen of leisure like myself...may casually 
disdain to consider labor in their endeavors.  Those whose schedules are 
more like that drip machine with the small basket you forgot to stick the 
carafe under...well, you ignore labor cost at your peril.
I would argue that ignoring the cost of your own labor is at all times a 
perilous act.  Do you really have nothing of importance to do other than 
making coffee?  If you don't, then I think I feel sorry for you a bit.  If 
you do, then what you spend your time on always has a price - or a *value,* 
to put it more positively.
Gene Smith
who gets to be Leonardo da Vinci next week

11) From: Linda
Got you beat. I am over 100 miles from a Charbucks, not that I really want
any.
-- 
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.6/33 - Release Date: 6/28/2005

12) From: Myron Joshua
Jim,
I can not trust your calculations!
I know you live "way out" but be serious, how can you be over 60 miles aways
from a Starbucks. I thought they were laid out much closer to one another
than that.
But maybe the cesspools in your area was too tough competition for their
brew.
Best, myron

13) From: Justin Marquez
On 7/6/05, Linda  wrote:
<Snip>
t
<Snip>
Good heavens! You even have my 92 miles beat!  Where on earth are you?
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (Snyder, TX)http://www.justinandlinda.com

14) From: Linda
A little place called Lakeside, Oregon. Southern coast
-- 
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.6/33 - Release Date: 6/28/2005

15) From: Kevin Nelander
Linda wrote:
<Snip>
Looks like you have one hidden in a Safeway about 13 miles to the south:http://yellowpages.superpages.com/profile.jsp?T=North+Bend&S&LID=qkOY4aZ%2BkeVwj0M2%2F6j58Q%3D%3D&SRC=local(Google Maps is my friend)http://maps.google.com/maps?q=starbucks+near+Lakeside,+Oregon&spn=1.139691,2.259613&hl=en

16) From: Justin Marquez
On 7/6/05, Kevin Nelander  wrote:
<Snip>
Betcha she isn't looking very hard, either.  Homeroasters don't even
blink at a *$ anymore.
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (Snyder, TX)http://www.justinandlinda.com

17) From: Linda
Thanks for the uh (useless) info. I did a search from their site using zip
codes, but nothing showed up short of Eugene. That is okay though as I still
won't frequent them or Dutch Brothers.
Linda in Lakeside 
mailto:lindafe
Roasting in a Cast Iron Skillet
Keep smiling..everyone will wonder what you are up to
A mans got to do what a mans got to do. 
A woman must do what he  can't.
-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.8/37 - Release Date: 7/1/2005

18) From: Les
Linda,
If you are headed to the I-5 from Lakeside, you are very close to Alchemist=
 
John and me. If you need a shot, I am in Roseburg.
 Les
 On 7/6/05, Linda  wrote: 
<Snip>
p
<Snip>


HomeRoast Digest