HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Turkish Coffee (136 msgs / 3590 lines)
1) From: Geoff Hayman
I know we've probably covered this before, but at the time I wasn't paying
attention to this topic :)
Now my father-in-law and his Turkish friend are coming to stay and I'd like
to try and give her a taste of home.
Any tips for which beans/blends/roasts to use?
Thanks
Geoff
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2) From: Bearhair
"Geoff Hayman"  wrote:
<Snip>
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3) From: cthomas
Geoff Hayman wrote:
<Snip>
like
to try and give her a taste of home.
Any tips for which beans/blends/roasts to use? <<
Geoff,
I've found that a nice Brazillian or a Gautemalan Antiqua work fine, just
before second crack.  Grind as fine as you can, preferrably as fine as
talcum powder.  The fineness of the grind is the most important point if
you intend to make it the traditional way in an Ibrik.  Use a pinch of
cardamon and a pinch of cinnamon (more cardamon than cinnamon) and a fair
helping of sugar.  Practice playing with to get the rich quantities for the
size of your Ibrik.  I find a heaping tablespoon of coffee, the spices, and
a teaspoon of sugar to a demitasse sized cup works fine.  Put the powders
in the Ibrik and then the water.  I usually mix them then.  Start the first
boil slowly until it reaches and spreads the shelf in the Ibrik (if yours
has one) and then remove fro the heat and let it subside.  Do this two more
times and after the third time, pour immediately.  The coffee grinds should
settle out in the cup, not the Ibrik.  Remember to keep track of the boil
because with too much heat input, it will be perfectly happy to boil over
on you, which is embarassing.  It may take several tries 'till it works
right, but can be fun and we enjoy the coffee tremendously.  Even if you
don't quite get it right, she may be enough impressed with your efforts to
show you a more native way.  I'd be happy to hear about that as well.
Enjoy,
Carl T.
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4) From: Glenn R. Holmes
Hi.
I use a cheapo whirly blade Grinder to grind my coffee beans into a
really fine powder. 
Put the Ibrik on the stove and when the water is starting to warm up I
stir in the amount of sugar I want. After a bit, I add the well rounded
teaaspoons of coffee. I don't use spices but I would mix them in with
the coffee if I did. 
Beans?. I found that almost any coffee bean goes well. Use your
favourite one and experiment. If you do it right it tastes like a
sweetened Americano. No Kidding! That is why I do not use spices.    
Glenn 
cthomas wrote:
<Snip>
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5) From: cthomas
Glenn,
You're right; I mis-typed (spoke?).  It is a heaping (or well rounded -
same-o, same-o) TEASPOON and the water volume to receive this is 3 oz which
is the size of the demitasse cups I have (I guess a tasse is 4 oz).  The
spices are not really my invention, but I believe they are authentically
Turkish.  Particularly the cardamon;  I've found recipes that use it alone
or with the cinnamon (which I prefer). 
Carl T.
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6) From: Steve Barr
I'm new to the list, want to learn about roasting, but I grew up on Turkish
coffee and here's a distillation of my wisdom:
The correct beans and roast is not as important as you think.  I know lots
Middle Eastern immigrants and without except they use preground Brazilian
coffee.  The bags are foil sealed, but sometimes sit in the fridge or
freezer for months before being used up, so if you have any coffee that
recently roasted and ground it'll be better than what they're used to.
The difference between Greek, Turkish and Armenian coffee is the roast,
Greek is lightest and Armenian is darkest.  I don't have details on how far
any of those are in terms of roasting stage, cracking, etc.
Put sugar and spices in anytime before the water starts to boil, I add when
the water is still cold.  When the water comes to a rolling boil remove from
heat, let sit for a few seconds, add coffee and return to heat.  You can use
ground spices but whole seeds is better, the flavor should be subtle.  Use
cardamom for Palestinean style or coriander for North African style.  If you
want Lebanese style, add a little rose water to the ibrik as soon as the
coffee is done.  I use 3 whole cardamom seeds when I make it with spices.
There is no fixed number of times that the coffee should be returned to the
flame.  When it first starts to boil, there will be a thick foam on the top.
Remove it from the heat for 20-30 seconds and stir, you won't be able to see
the coffee boiling, but you can feel it in the ibrik handle, hold it over
the flame until you can feel it boiling for about 3 seconds, then remove
from heat again.  Repeat boiling and stirring until the foam on the surface
"breaks" so that you can see some of the coffee surface in the foam--you
will have to bring the coffee to boil 2 to 6 times before this happens.
When the foam breaks the coffee is ready.
The cup should have some sludge, not a lot and not none.  About 1/8 inch or
so on the bottom of a thimble cup.  Generally I let the ibrik sit for 1 or 2
minutes before pouring.  Don't pour more than 70% of the coffee from the
ibrik, the rest is too sludgy.
When pouring, fill each cup halfway first, then fill the second half.
Otherwise the last cup poured will have too much sludge and the first cup
will have none.

7) From: Glenn R. Holmes
Hi Steve/Carl. 
I appreciate your input Steve but you forgot one essential component of
Turkish coffee. That is the ceremony where you empty your grounds onto a
saucer and have the eldest female present read their pattern/  :=)
I find that, done right, I can get the taste of the varietal very
nicely. I love the natural taste of most coffee beans and, although
Espresso and Moka pots are excellent ways of getting it, the Turkish
method is no slouch either.
As far as convenience, the Turkish method is great; very portable and
you do not need a source of high heat to prepare the coffee.  
I usually do not spice up my Turkish coffee however when I do, I like to
use Cinnamon as Carl does. Sometimes I add more sugar because I want a
sweet beverage. Coffee is so flexible. Reading a thread on alt.coffee on
iced coffee I cannot think of a better way than to prepare it Turkish
method then chilling it. That I'm going to try. Should make one hell of
a summer drink. Especially if one laces it with dsome Baileys or Wild
Turkey Bourbon.  :=) 
Glenn    
Glenn
Steve Barr wrote:
<Snip>
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8) From: Ed Needham
Steve...
Thanks for an interesting post.  I'm confused though about what you say
about letting the coffee foam 'break'.  I was told that you never want the
coffee foam to break and go flat.  That serving Turkish coffee without a
full cover of foam in the cup was a great insult.  I have made it this way
for years and do not like the taste if I mess up and let the head 'break'
and go flat.
I may have misunderstood your post, but I'd like to hear what you have to
say.  Thanks.
Regards,
Ed Needham

9) From: cthomas
Steve,
You've introduced a number of interesting twists in preparation I'll have
to try.  I had come to believe the magic three times may be more a
reflection of religious prejudice than otherwise, so your discussion of
surface effects makes more sense, albeit more tedious.  I'm beginning to
suspect that "local" tradition may have played more of a role in the
evolution of choices than I'd suspected, underscoring your discussion of
roast depth and spice content (or lack thereof) since I've heard similar
discrepencies freom the Greeks and Turks I know, who tend in any event to
be from eastern Greece and western Turkey.  I'm having difficulty imagining
coriander as a spice additive, but may try it just for kicks.  I've also
heard of anise or a touch of Ouzo being used, but I'm not a big licorise
fan (except as a light note in some Thai foods).  I was always told to pour
immediately to make sure the coffee stays hot and that the grounds made
sure of maintaining adequate flavoring in the cup, although I suspect its
just a way of making sure the grounds are spread around.
Glenn,
If I tried to get my wife or one of her sisters to read the pattern of the
grounds based on the eldest female theorem, I suspect I'd be wearing many a
former cup of Turkish coffee.
Cheers all,
Carl T.
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10) From: Steve Barr
It may very well be an insult in some places!  Perhaps my first message was
painted in overly broad strokes.  Keep in mind that that "Turkish" coffee is
a tradition spread over thousand of miles and scores of cultures, from the
Balkans to Persia to Morocco and well into the Sahara.  The common elements
are an ibrik, finely ground coffee and (presumably) coffee boiled at least
once, everything beyond that is cultural and family tradition.  My
grandmother and my uncle recently had a ten minute argument on (I'm not
making this up) the correct way to cut eggplant for stuffing...so I would
expect many contrary opinions on what constitutes the correct way to make
coffee.
The coffee certainly does taste, well, earthy when brewed like this, which
is probably the reason for spices in the first place.  The idea of using
preground Brazilian beans should indicate that the traditional or popular
way is not always going to appeal to the American homeroaster. :)
 When I see the foam break it's no more than a slender crescent shape
(remember that the coffee is being stirred) about 1/2 inch wide and a few
inches long.  The head isn't flat yet, most of the surface is still covered
with foam when I finally remove it from the heat.  Of course, every time you
bring it to boil you'll be liberating bitter elements into the brew, so if
you're used to the taste of espresso/vacpot/presspot coffee then, I agree,
it will taste flat.
You've inspired me to experiment with the the boiling repetition...but I'm a
software developer at pre-IPO whose about to blow off the rest of his Sunday
working on an XML parser, so I won't be able to report the results to the
list for some time...
Steve.
--

11) From: Ed Needham
Steve,
I'm sure you are correct that there are many different ways to make 'Turkish
Style' coffee.  The method I use is Palestinian Arabic and adds the coffee
to cold water and does not stir during the brewing process.  I learned from
a friend who was also a coffee fanatic who spent six months in Israel.  Much
of his time was on a kibbutz (a Jewish farm), but he also traveled
extensively into Arab areas, and learned the technique there.
I stir in the coffee and the small amount of sugar at first, then bring it
to the point of 'cresting', take it off long enough for it to lower, then
back on the heat again to rise twice more, then into the cup.  Using my
method, if I let it 'crest' and go to a rolling boil, it is ruined.  It goes
flat and tastes terrible.  The Arab tradition, as I learned it, says to toss
it and start over if that happens, and NEVER think of serving it.  If I can
bring it to a crest two or three times without it 'erupting' and losing the
crown, then when I pour it into the cup, the rich foam covers the coffee and
tastes incredible.  I love Turkish coffee when it's done this way.
I also had discussions with a friend from Bosnia, but when we made our brews
side by side, he (and I) liked mine better.  His method put the coffee and
sugar into boiling water with a stir.  He admitted that his mother could
make it better than he could, and invited me over for hers, but I never got
the chance.
Regards,
Ed Needham

12) From: Glenn R. Holmes
Hi Steve.
I do mine as taught by an Egyptian friend.
The crust on it they call a "face" and their expression is that if you
cannot make a good face on your coffee, you cannot make good coffee. 
I do varietals without spices and I do not find earthyness. I have used
Kenyans, Yemens, high toned coffees basically. Sometimes I like to add
cinnamon to jazz it up but that is usually with a "duller" coffee, ie
one that is not high toned or citrusy. What is nice about turkish coffee
is that you can go away on a trip and still make great coffee and, you
do not need high heat to do it.  
The way I do it is to place the Ibrik on low heat and when the water is
warm I add my sugar if I am going to use any and let it dissolve. 
When the water is  a bit warmer then I add the coffee (also spices if I
am going to use them) and stir it in. I jiggle it gently from time to
time while it is brewing and let the face form. When the coffee rises
I'll take it off, let it drop and then rise again. 
I never let the water get too hot before adding the coffee. I consider
the crust that forms helps to trap the heat and flavor underneath.
If it breaks, then I dump it and start over. The coffee is ruined.
Certainly the turkish coffee method of brewing takes a back seat to none
when done properly. And it is so versatile; you can do so much with it.
I believe it is called turkish coffee because the Turks were the first
ones to do it. The method is used in Greece, Balkans, all over. You are
right also in that it has ceremonial significance ins many countries and
cultures.
To tell you the truth, I enjoy the ceremonial preparation of coffee
serving with my friends because it adds to relaxation and enjoyment of
it.
The wakeup blaster and IQ booster I have to have in the morning is a
different story. :=)
Glenn      
    
Steve Barr wrote:
<Snip>
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13) From: cthomas
For Ed Needham:
I think we are talking about basically the same method, but I learned it
from Greeks and Western Turks, the difference being the addition of the
cardemon and/or cinnamon for the Turkish version.  If the cresting goes
slowly enough, the crust forms a dome and doesn't seem to break, but may
vent to the sides.  When it subsides, the center collapses and it appears
to curl in on itself at the edges.  The Ibrik I have is roughly cone-shaped
to about 3/4 of an inch from the top where it flares out into a wider
flange.   When the crest reaches the wider flange, I remove from the heat,
let it subside and then return it to the heat for another pass.  I do let
it subside and sort of slosh it around a little to make sure everybody gets
a little of the grounds since I've found the coffee tends to be flat unless
there are some in the coup.  Even though I don't deliberately drink the
grounds, I do find that a little bit in the sip makes for a nice taste.  I
suspect for a coffee drinking method so old and widely distributed, it
shouldn't surprise anybody that there is such a variety of methodology.
Carl T.
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14) From: Steve D - Kc4rkf

15) From: David Jewett
I work with a Palesteinian (sp?) woman and I was asking her about Middle 
Eastern coffee. She described how she makes it when her relatives come to 
visit, and then said that she would help me get an Ibrik and a recipe so I 
could try it myself. Tonight she came through!
The one I have is probably 12 ounce capacity, and I was surprised to find it 
is a heavy stainless steel model, looking very modern like ordinary 
kitchen-ware. I was a little disappointed and was hoping for one more like 
what Tom sells. (If you aren't familiar with SE Michigan, the western 
suburbs have the largest Arabic population outside the middle east, so I 
kind of expected something imported directly from the middle east. The one I 
have is from Greece.) The recipe that my friend gave is 2 cups water, 3-5 
tsp sugar, 6 tsp turkish coffee and 3 cardamom pods or 1/8 tsp cardamom 
powder. This can also be made in a regular saucepan. The instructions I got 
are essentially the same as those SM has posted.
I heated the mixture until it frothed up, stirring constantly. When I say 
frothed up, I mean it was simmering one second and practically jumped the 
next. To control the rising foam, I pulled the Ibick out of the flame. I did 
this, but then wasn't able to get the foam back after that. It just boiled 
and I was unable to get crema. After a couple of minutes trying to find the 
crema, I gave up and let it settle. My friend gave me coffee that she bought 
at an Arabic market and they added the cardamom to the bag. It was 
pre-ground, and I would guess that it's at least a full city roast.
I didn't expect to like it, but the drink is extraordinary. I used 4oz 
water, 1 heaping tsp sugar and 7 grams of coffee/cardamom. I got 3 ounces of 
syrupy coffee with a really strong licorice/flowery flavor from the 
cardamom. It's different from espresso, the body from the sugar and the 
coffee is pretty thick, much heavier than espresso.
It's coffee candy in a demitasse, and I'll be drinking this again.
David Jewett
Royal Oak, MI
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16) From: john kangas
<Snip>
That's exactly what I thought after my first experiment with the briki. 
Actually, a tiny stainless container. Like one of the milk frothing pitchers 
but about 5 oz. I'd recieved some "Mt. Kilimanjaro" brand coffee from a 
friend returning from northern Tanzania. That was my introduction to "good 
coffee". After getting blown away by the first pot, I ran online to find out 
more, and read about Turkish coffee. Went to the kitchen store, big 
surprise, no ibriks... but that looks like it'd work! And it all just 
snowballed after that, 2 years to go from "folgers ain't bad, but *$ is 
better" to roasting out on the porch.
Anyways, I digress... I eventually picked up a real briki, and have been 
using that ever since. Does anyone have hints/suggestions? Mine still turns 
out hit or miss, it's good without the crema, but much better with.
For anyone interested in trying this out: The crema isn't like espresso, 
(smooth) it's got a sharp bite to it. (very good actually) The liquid 
underneath is heavy, rich, and smooth. I've used lighter roasts and bright 
coffees, and they came out excellent, not sour like some might expect. (in 
my experience anyways) The grounds settle nicely out of the way at the 
bottom, just don't get greedy, and you won't get grounds. A small stainless 
container works well as a cheap and easy introduction, they're only a dollar 
or so, and easy to find.
And keep a glass of ice water close by, sometimes it's hard to pass up that 
last little sip... sometimes it's muddy, and that's what the water's for.
John
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17) From: Lissa
On Sat, 2002-03-30 at 22:26, David Jewett wrote:
<Snip>
Lovely stuff.  I prefer it without the sugar, with a little lemon zest
put in after being poured (espresso is good with lemon zest, too).  Cuts
the bitter just enough.  
Since you are local, I'll mention that you can get lots of pre-ground
Arabic coffees very close to you at a Bosnian market in Hamtramck (they
also sell greens, but I only roast Tom's).  Get off 75 S at Caniff, turn
left (like you are going to downtown Hamtramck), and it is just across
the street from Taj Mahal (maroon awning on your right) before you get
to Jos Campau.  The little breads they keep behind the counter are
lovely, too.  
The local LaShish's also make a pretty good Arabic coffee.  I ask for it
thick and not sweet (if you don't ask for it thick, they tame it down
for "American" tastes too much).
Be well,
Lissa
-- 
The greatest respect we can have for law and order is
to question and challenge the people who are enforcing it.
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18) From: Paul Goelz
<Snip>
Is THAT why?  I used to eat lunch in the Troy LaShish and would have a
Turkish coffe once in a while.  After I found out that it was supposed to
have the crema on top, I kidded the guy about the fact that mine didn't
have any "scum" on it.  And he said that I should make sure that he made it
the next time.  And I did and he did.... and it had lots of crema on it!  
Paul; Goelz
Rochester Hills, MI
Pgoelz
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19) From: David Jewett
I know exactly what you mean about the crema! I've made Turkish several 
times in the last few days and the crema is so elusive. I seems like I'll 
heat it, it froths up and it's there, I'll do it again and it's still there 
and then- poof! It's gone. The boiling changes from foam to large bubbles. 
I'm not sure what's going on in there, but I have a guess that when I get to 
a certain heat, some sugar gets carmelized and kills the crema. I have yet 
to get it right, I've tried using less heat, and I've tried lots of heat. 
I've stirred vigorously and slower and still kill the crema.
The coffee is still good though.
The ibrik I have looks exactly like a milk frothing pitcher, but with 
heavier walls and a long handle. Have you tried it with Cardamom? I like it 
both with and without.
David Jewett
Royal Oak, MI
<Snip>
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20) From: Ken Mary
In my experience, darker roasts will provide less foam or none at all. I do
not believe that you must have the "obligatory" 3 rises, although that is
what I do. I have had perfectly good brews with not one bubble of foam left.
Try to anticipate the rise and remove the heat. I stir after each rise, I
think it helps to settle the grounds. But I use coffee only, no additives,
so that may affect my results.
--
----------
<Snip>
<Snip>
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21) From: Steven Dover

22) From: Jim Friedlander
Great advice....I like the toothpick trick, I'll try that.  I currently
go for five foam-ups and the taste is great!
Thanks

23) From: Paul Goelz
<Snip>
Pardon me for re-joining this thread....  I too am having trouble keeping
the crema intact.  The taste, however, is superb.  
I find it is particularly difficult on my gas stove because the flame comes
out around the burner, and in a circle about the same diameter as the
converted steaming jug I am using.  So it heats the eadges much more than
the center.  
But I think you are right.... I am boiling it and that is when the crema
starts to dissipate.  The first and maybe second rises are quite good, but
for one thing, I was going for five for some reason.  If I had stopped at
three I would have LOTS of crema.  
Gotta go try one right now!
Paul Goelz
Rochester Hills, MI
pgoelz at eaglequest dot com
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24) From: Carl Thomas
For Paul Goetz:
I had the same problem when I heated my Ibrik on a gas stove.  You might try
putting an aluminum frying pan under the Ibrik to spread the heat al bit.  I
generally held it over a low flame through the center, but eventually tried
the pan with success.  The electric stovetop we have now is nice that way -
it spreads the heat by putting a thermo ceramic between the heating elements
and the cooking vessel.  Slow heating and fast cool down work wonders at
keeping the crema intact;  it generally looks like a plug when I'm finished
that floats up and down with the cycling.  Neat.
Following this thread is the first time I've heard of chocolate in a
"Turkish" coffee.  Sounds more Viennese to me, maybe a modification of an
old Ottoman Turk recipe?
BTW - if you or the rest of the folks who haven't tried cardamom yet do so,
be gentle.  It can easily overwhelm the coffee.  I use a pinch or less on
occasion.
Suggestion on cups - I've found that espresso cups work nicely.
Cheers,
Carl
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25) From: Jcpxyz1
Back in the late sixties I enjoyed the coffee served almost universally in 
Greece at that time. The roast was cinnamon, the grind was extra fine 
(powder?), the coffee powder with an equal amount of sugar was placed in a 
deep brass container with the appropriate amount of cold water, heated over a 
small flame until the mixture boiled up to near the top, removed from the 
heat, then returned to the heat for a second boiling up, and the process 
repeated again for a total of of three passes. The coffee was served in a 
small cup, no filtering, and you could either drink the coffee powder and 
all, or let the coffee powder settle to the bottom and avoid the caffeine. 
Some call this Greek Coffee, some Turkish Coffee. 
I'm relatively a newbie, and have learned mucho from this list, and for 
normal coffee as most of us use it, I'm doing OK, but the Turkish coffee 
would be a fine dessert occasionally. Considering the time and effort in 
exploring the mucho variables in roasting for a very specific taste, I'm 
hoping that someone on the list has had experience with this, and can save me 
mucho experimentation; choice of bean and roast profile would be a big help.
Thanks mucho, and best saludos - Jim Price
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26) From: Paul Goelz
<Snip>
I'm no Turkish coffee expert.... far from it.  But I have made the most 
delicious coffe drink I have ever had by using my regular coffee (Costa 
Rican La Minita) ground to espresso grind, mixed with sugar, Ghiradelli 
(sp?) sweetened ground coccoa powder, and a bit of cardamom.  Bring it to a 
gradual boil and remove when it begins to rise.  Let settle, and 
repeat.  Do NOT let the foam break or it will lose the crema.
Absolutely delicious.  Every time.
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27) From: Paul Goelz
<Snip>
I'm no Turkish coffee expert.... far from it.  But I have made the most 
delicious coffe drink I have ever had by using my regular coffee (Costa 
Rican La Minita) ground to espresso grind, mixed with sugar, Ghiradelli 
(sp?) sweetened ground coccoa powder, and a bit of cardamom.  Bring it to a 
gradual boil and remove when it begins to rise.  Let settle, and 
repeat.  Do NOT let the foam break or it will lose the crema.
Absolutely delicious.  Every time.
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28) From: John - In Deep Southern Texas
Jim,
    I was in Turkey in 1957 and loved the coffee (and that was about all).
I too began to want to try another cup and just couldn't get it right -
UNTIL I bought an Ibrik from Tom.  I can make pretty fair Turkish with it.
Tom has a great write-up on using the Ibrik that will give you a fair
feeling of the fiddle-factor on brewing.  The Ibrik isn't all that expensive
and its fun to make a brew in it from time to time.http://www.sweetmarias.com/brew.inst.ibrik.htmlThe Ibriks Tom carries are from Egypt but basically the same as anywhere in
the middle east.http://www.sweetmarias.com/prod.brewers.shtml#ibrikHope this helps
John

29) From: Steven Dover

30) From: Jcpxyz1
Thanks to those who responded to my Turkish coffee question - armed with 
those responses, I will start my experimenting.
Thanks mucho, and saludos - Jim Price
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31) From: Dan Bollinger
Kenyan?  I'd think that they'd traditionally/historically use something
closer, say a Mokha or Yemen?
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32) From: Bernie Maron
Can anyone suggest a good variety or a blend for Turkish coffee (or 
Mediteranean  coffee if you don't like the name "Turkish")?  A 
restaurant recently told me they use Kenya AA.  I think a nice aged 
coffee would work.  Anyone have other preferences?

33) From: Lissa
On Sun, 2003-11-09 at 09:35, Bernie Maron wrote:
<Snip>
The local Lebanese coffee roasters offer two kinds of coffee, Yemen
mokha and Columbian.  I can't tell the difference between them.
Be well,
Lissa
-- 
...the age will demand that analysis, criticism, evaluation, and satire
yield to celebration, charm, and niceness.
Paul Fussell, _Wartime_, discussing WWII

34) From: Les & Becky
I like Harr Harr Horse the best followed by a good Yemen or the Uganda isn't
bad either!
Les

35) From: Ben Gold
Can anyone tell me what roast to use for Turkish
coffee? Also favorite bean selections would help too.
Thanks
Ben2

36) From: Tim TenClay
Greetings all,
Although my cezve has been sitting in the cupboard for quite some
time, I've decided that I'm intent on learning how to brew an awesome
cup of Turkish Coffee.  Having tried now several times, and failed
abysmally, I figured the best bet was to ask for help.
I used about 1 T. of ground coffee (perhaps it wasn't ground finely enough?)
4 oz. H20
I've tried 2 rises and 3 neither way produced any lasting foam (the
part I remember so fondly from our trip to Turkey...)
Any help would be greatly appreciated!!
Grace and Peace,
 `tim
-- 
Rev. Tim TenClay
Dunningville Reformed Church (www.dunningville.org)
Knots & More Tatting Supplies (www.knotsandmore.com) NATA #253

37) From: Ben Gold
What type of coffee did you use? I tried it once with centrals, can't remember which, and had no trouble getting foam. I didn't use any Robusta, but that might be a thought.
 
Ben2
Tim TenClay  wrote:
Greetings all,
Although my cezve has been sitting in the cupboard for quite some
time, I've decided that I'm intent on learning how to brew an awesome
cup of Turkish Coffee. Having tried now several times, and failed
abysmally, I figured the best bet was to ask for help.
I used about 1 T. of ground coffee (perhaps it wasn't ground finely enough?)
4 oz. H20
I've tried 2 rises and 3 neither way produced any lasting foam (the
part I remember so fondly from our trip to Turkey...)
Any help would be greatly appreciated!!
Grace and Peace,
`tim
-- 
Rev. Tim TenClay
Dunningville Reformed Church (www.dunningville.org)
Knots & More Tatting Supplies (www.knotsandmore.com) NATA #253

38) From: David M. Lewis
At 9:15 PM -0500 2/12/05, Tim TenClay wrote:
<Snip>
Years ago, the Amateur Scientist column in Scientific American did a 
piece on Turkish coffee. It turns out that in addition to the very 
finely ground coffee, you need the sugar to get the lasting foam. 
It's quite a bit of sugar, too. I don't remember for sure, but try 
two tablespoons of coffee ground to the consistency of talc, and an 
equal amount of sugar. It's actually pretty instructive to do as the 
columnist did and do it in a lab beaker a few times.
Best,
	David
-- 
"A fool and his money are soon elected."
	- Kinky Friedman

39) From: steven willis
Does anybody know if there is a standard blend, bean
variety, for what is sold as Turkish coffee? 
Ethiopian?  The usual Brazilian based mix?  Any
knowledge?
Thanks,
Steve Willis

40) From: Craig Wichner
Hi Steve,
I was in Turkey six months ago, and I was a bit surprised to learn that the
#1 local (Istanbul) roaster of Turkish coffee says his beans are from
Central America and Brazil. I would have thought that Yemet Mattari or an
Ethiopian blend would have topped the list. The roaster in Istanbul I
visited is Mehmet Efendi (www.mehmetefendi.com 

41) From: Craig Wichner
Hi again Steve,
You inspired me, so I just made a turkish coffee with Tom's Moka Kadir
roasted to Full City...very yummy. There's just something about the brewing
method that just works for me. The brewing method really brings out some
amazing flavors, and you'd do fine to use the Yemens and Ethiopians. Mmmmmm=
,
I think I just found new love in my Moka Kadir Turkish cup...
On 10/31/05, steven willis  wrote:
<Snip>

42) From: Andy Berg
For what it's worth, most Turkish (Greek, Arabic, Balkan... why isn't 
there a name for the method in English?) pre-packaged coffee available 
in the US is labelled Brazilian. Whether this is due to taste or cost, I 
don't know. It's worth remembering, I think, that this method of 
preparing coffee comes to us from a less affluent part of the world. 
Just because they use Brazilians does not mean that there are not other 
coffees better suited to the method. Tradition may also be a factor.

43) From: Ed Needham
Well, since South and Central American coffees were not available to those 
early folks making Turkish and Turkish-style coffee, most of the beans were 
traditionally from areas close by.  Indonesian, African, etc.  I'd bet that 
if you bought a 'can' of Turkish blend today at a Middle eastern market, it 
could be just about anything.
With Turkish, it's not so much the blend as the technique.  I'd spell it out 
here, but that information is readily available on the web.  If you can't 
find a good recipe, I'll 'spill the beans'.
*********************
Ed Needham
"to absurdity and beyond!"
ed at homeroaster dot com
(include [FRIEND] somewhere in the subject line of any email correspondence)
*********************

44) From: steven willis
Thanks for the replies.  I actually haven't yet tried
making Turkish coffee, but I have a friend-customer
from Eastern Europe who loves it and swears that there
is some elusive and desirable (at least for him)
quality in the coffee available in the region.  I
wonder if the roasting technique might be unusual--a
slow roast to a medium color, maybe.  I'm trying some
Yirgacheffe roasted to Full City (435 degrees in about
18 minutes), but I'm not sure I'm following the
correct line.  I guess he'll let me know. 
I suppose I'm afraid that the interesting quality of
Yirg won't really survive the repeated boiling.  I
think that for my taste probably a classic Moka Java,
literally Moka and Java, would be good, or a Moka
Brazil substitute.  My friend has said that he
sometimes has an allergic reaction to acidic coffees,
which is why I (perhaps mistakenly) chose Yirg over
Harrar.
I believe that, if I can understand what it is he
likes about the traditional regional coffee, I can get
him a better beverage by using (as we all believe)
better beans in a fresher roast.  Unless it's
staleness that he likes.
Thanks for the input.
Steve Willis

45) From: Tim TenClay
The stuff I brought back from Turkey several years ago was Columbian.
Grace and Peace,
  `tim
On 11/1/05, Ed Needham  wrote:
<Snip>
e
<Snip>
re
<Snip>
at
<Snip>
it
<Snip>
out
<Snip>
ce)
<Snip>
ribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>
--
Rev. Tim TenClay
Dunningville Reformed Church (www.dunningville.org)
Knots & More Tatting Supplies (www.knotsandmore.com) NATA #253
Personal Blog:http://www.tenclay.org/blog

46) From: Tim TenClay
I have to say....I fell in love with Turkish Coffee when we were there
several years ago, but have never quite been able to repeat it.  It
does have an elusive quality -- I think part of it has to do with the
right amount of sugar.  The "crema" (if you can call it that) doesn't
survive the process without some sugar to "hold it together"....
I hope you perfect it...there's nothing better IMHO.
Grace and Peace,
  `tim
On 11/1/05, steven willis  wrote:
<Snip>
ribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>
--
Rev. Tim TenClay
Dunningville Reformed Church (www.dunningville.org)
Knots & More Tatting Supplies (www.knotsandmore.com) NATA #253
Personal Blog:http://www.tenclay.org/blog

47) From: Jeffrey Bair
Hi Steven -
 Keep us posted on your findings! My wife and I love Turkish but my grinder
won't grind that fine, so we have to use the canned stuff from one of our
local middle eastern markets. For being a canned, pre-ground product, it
tastes surprisingly good - at least compared to what we consider good
Turkish coffee (basically the stuff we get in the local greek and arabic
restaraunts). For being boiled, it always amazes me the amount of flavor
that remains.
 Soon I will have the appropriate grinder, so I'll be dying to try some
homeroast. In addition to common blends, I'm curious about roasting
techniques - how dark, how long of a profile, etc.
 Many thanks -
 Jeff
 On 11/1/05, steven willis  wrote:
<Snip>

48) From: Angelo
<Snip>
For "grinding" Turkish coffee, you might try using a blade grinder which 
can smash the beans into the powder that's needed
<Snip>
The coffee should never be boiled. The rising of the crema happens way 
before the boiling point is reached...
<Snip>

49) From: Ed Needham
Just get a Turkish hand grinder for $15-$25 at a local market or coffeeshop 
or Ebay.  Sweetmaria's sells the top of the line Zass Turkish grinder, but 
it's $80.  Kings of Persia ground coffee with much less .  Mine is a 
crudely made brass/cast affair that will grind beans to a powder and likely 
last a lifetime.  No need to get a fancy one in my opinion.  (Sorry Tom and 
Maria)
I take it camping and open the burrs all the way to do drip...and of course 
Turkish.
*********************
Ed Needham
"to absurdity and beyond!"
ed at homeroaster dot com
(include [FRIEND] somewhere in the subject line of any email correspondence)
*********************

50) From: Ed Needham
I wouldn't say 'way' before the crema happens.  It's a very fine line to 
catch it just as the crusted head rises, to pull it away from the heat 
'before' it rolls over into a boil.  Twice or three times if you are brave, 
and dump it all into your cup.
*********************
Ed Needham
"to absurdity and beyond!"
ed at homeroaster dot com
(include [FRIEND] somewhere in the subject line of any email correspondence)
*********************

51) From: Zara Haimo
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
I haven't made Turkish/Greek/Arabic coffee in years, but I just unpacked =
the pot for making it, so I may serve some after dinner tonight.  I've =
never ground my own coffee for it - any guesses for what setting I would =
need on my Mazzer Mini if the setting for grinding for press pot is =
about 8, and the setting for espresso is about halfway between 5 and 6?  =
Does anyone else like it with cardamom added?

52) From: Sandy Andina
I would add that sugar is indispensable for Turkish (and Cuban and  
Greek) coffee.  Without it, you just don't get the stable foam that  
is the beverage's hallmark (and which is also the measure of a host's  
esteem for his guests), and the texture is not syrupy enough.   
Artificial sweeteners just don't cut it, IMHO. As a low-carb dieter,  
I will make it for others but can't drink it myself. :(
On Nov 1, 2005, at 10:53 AM, Ed Needham wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy Andina
www.sandyandina.com

53) From: miKe mcKoffee
Hi Zara,
I'm loath to say it's one brewing method I haven't explored! Been meaning to
order an Ibrik for years just haven't gotten around to it. Guess I'll just
have to order one of those beautiful Ibriks from India Tom has today. (And
of course even though still in SRM I suspect a few greens may find their way
to the order...)
That said I'd simply follow Tom's directions, grinding as fine as possible
to powder, finer than even ristretto espresso.http://www.sweetmarias.com/brew.inst.ibrik.htmlYeah, if for after dinner desert coffee I'd toss in some of these green
cardamon pods I have from Penzeys and a touch of sugar! 
Which gives me a hankerin' to make a batch of kheer... (Debi loves it, so do
I)
miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipeshttp://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
www.MDMProperties.net
	From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Zara Haimo
	Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 11:36 AM
	
	I haven't made Turkish/Greek/Arabic coffee in years, but I just
unpacked the pot for making it, so I may serve some after dinner tonight.
I've never ground my own coffee for it - any guesses for what setting I
would need on my Mazzer Mini if the setting for grinding for press pot is
about 8, and the setting for espresso is about halfway between 5 and 6?
Does anyone else like it with cardamom added?

54) From: Jeffrey Bair
Funny you should mention cardamom . . . I haven't tried it with my turkish
yet, but just last night made a couple of caps with a moka java blend
(Yemen/Sumatra) and dusted the top of the foam with cardamom and sugar. I
always make my turkish with sugar and that's all - I'll have to try it your
way.
On 11/1/05, Zara Haimo  wrote:
<Snip>
er
<Snip>
n
<Snip>
the
<Snip>
ike
<Snip>

55) From: Sandy Andina
--Apple-Mail-20-98299794
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	charset-ASCII;
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On Nov 1, 2005, at 1:35 PM, Zara Haimo wrote:
<Snip>
Never tried making T.C. with cardamom (though some I had in Bethlehem  
a decade ago sure tasted like it--yummy).  However, when I lived in  
Seattle in the '70s, there was a coffee shop in the U. District  
called Allegro Cafe (founded by an original owner of Starbucks after  
selling his interest in the corp) that served "Espresso Allegro:"  a  
doppio ristretto with a cardamom pod and a few drops of honey in the  
bottom of the cup.
Sandy Andina
www.sandyandina.com
--Apple-Mail-20-98299794
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charsetO-8859-1
On Nov 1, 2005, at =
1:35 PM, Zara Haimo wrote:
Does anyone else like it with cardamom = added? Never tried = making T.C. with cardamom (though some I had in Bethlehem a decade ago = sure tasted like it--yummy).  However, when I lived in Seattle in the = '70s, there was a coffee shop in the U. District called Allegro Cafe = (founded by an original owner of Starbucks after selling his interest in = the corp) that served "Espresso Allegro:"  a doppio ristretto with a = cardamom pod and a few drops of honey in the bottom of the = cup. Sandy = Andinawww.sandyandina.com = --Apple-Mail-20-98299794--

56) From: Zara Haimo
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
<Snip>
turkish yet, but just last night made a couple of caps with a moka java =
blend (Yemen/Sumatra) and dusted the top of the foam with cardamom and =
sugar. I always make my turkish with sugar and that's all - I'll have to =
try it your way. 
I had it served that way several times in Israel and really liked it.  =
In both Egypt and Greece, coffee was only sweetened with sugar.  I'm not =
sure if adding cardamom is widely done in Israel or if I just happened =
on places that served it that way.  Usually I make it slightly sweet =
with a bit of sugar, but after having it with cardamom in Israel, I've =
made it for dessert with cardamom I ground in a mortar (not the coffee =
grinder!).

57) From: Jeffrey Bair
My wife always keeps a small jar of ground cardamom in our spice cabinet.
I'm not sure how she grinds it, but I know she grinds it herself. That's
what I've used. I've been known to mix it in with the coffee for french
press or drip, too - excellent! I suspect it was ground in a small, electri=
c
spice mill that use just for that purpose - essentially the same as a
whirlyblade coffee grinder. Works great!
On 11/1/05, Zara Haimo  wrote:
<Snip>
try
<Snip>
 if
<Snip>
ert
<Snip>

58) From: Tim TenClay
There's a Finnish bread with Cardamom in it..It's called Nisu --
incredible with coffee...A friend of mine gave me the recipe in
college, if there's interest I'll send it out...let me know.
Grace and Peace,
  `tim
--
Rev. Tim TenClay
Dunningville Reformed Church (www.dunningville.org)
Knots & More Tatting Supplies (www.knotsandmore.com) NATA #253
Personal Blog:http://www.tenclay.org/blog

59) From: Zara Haimo
<Snip>
incredible with coffee...A friend of mine gave me the recipe in
college, if there's interest I'll send it out...let me know.
Please!

60) From: Jeffrey Bair
Hi Tim -
I'd love a copy as well.
Thanks!
Jeff
On 11/1/05, Zara Haimo  wrote:
<Snip>

61) From: Sandy Andina
--Apple-Mail-30-128363042
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The Swedish Bake Shop in Andersonville (1 mi. south of me) sells  
limpa bread, rye with lots of cardamom, as well as cardamom toasts  
(kind of like zweiback). On Thursdays they bake "vort limpa" with  
extra cardamom and some candied citron rind.
On Nov 1, 2005, at 8:37 PM, Jeffrey Bair wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy Andina
www.sandyandina.com
--Apple-Mail-30-128363042
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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	charset-ASCII
The Swedish Bake Shop in =
Andersonville (1 mi. south of me) sells limpa bread, rye with lots of =
cardamom, as well as cardamom toasts (kind of like zweiback). On =
Thursdays they bake "vort limpa" with extra cardamom and some candied =
citron rind.
On Nov 1, 2005, at 8:37 PM, Jeffrey Bair =
wrote:
Hi Tim - I'd love a copy as well. = Thanks! Jeff On = 11/1/05, Zara Haimo <zara> = wrote: > There's a Finnish bread with Cardamom in it..It's called = Nisu -- incredible with coffee...A friend of mine gave me the recipe = in college, if there's interest I'll send it out...let me = know. Please! = homeroast mailing list http://li=sts.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast To change your = personal list settings (digest options, vacations, unsvbscribes) go to = http://=sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings Sandy = Andinawww.sandyandina.com = --Apple-Mail-30-128363042--

62) From: Alchemist John
I have never made it myself, but I enjoyed it in the past with 
cardamom, and extremely sweet.  My first guess at a setting would be 2-3.
At 11:35 11/1/2005, you wrote:
<Snip>
John Nanci
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.chocolatealchemy.com/

63) From: Barbara Leazier
YEs, Please post your recipe for all to enjoy!
Barb
Work for the Lord - the pay isn't much but the retirement is out of this 
world!  MAY GOD BLESS YOU.
<Snip>

64) From: Peter Zulkowski
So would I...
Thanks,
PeterZ
Jeffrey Bair wrote:
<Snip>

65) From: Brian Kamnetz
Hi,
I tried Turkish coffee again today and think I am starting to get the
hang of it. Today I wanted to make only one demitasse of coffee.
Knowing that I needed to have room for the grounds to settle, I filled
a demitasse twice and added to the ibrik, and added 2 teaspoons of
sugar. I placed the ibrik on an electric burner turned to "medium". (A
couple days ago I made Turkish coffee at my sister's house. She has a
gas stove with a "simmer" burner. That is an ideal burner for Turkish
coffee, in my opinion.) As the water warmed I stirred with a spoon
handle until the sugar was dissolved. As the water showed signs of
heating I added 11 g of coffee, ground in a whirlyblade grinder, and
stirred. Very shortly small bubbles began forming on top of the
liquid. When it had risen about a quarter inch, I chickened out and
removed the ibrik from the heat, and stirred. After it had settled, I
returned to the burner, turned down quite a lot. Small bubbles began
forming almost immediately, and shortly larger bubbles appeared along
the edge. I raised the ibrik above the burner, returned to the burner,
raised, returned, etc., until a bulge began rising in the middle, and
I stopped brewing. I set aside for a minute or two while warming a
demitasse, then poured and allowed to sit for another minute or two.
Total brewing time was 10 mins 45 secs.
The last couple times I tried brewing Turkish coffee I was visiting
others and didn't have a scale, but I think that I used more coffee
today than I have been using. Also, I removed from heat at an earlier
point than I have been. The results were much better. I think the big
difference was from removing from the heat sooner. The flavor was
brighter, less "tar" flavored. I think I have been scorching previous
batches.
I know a good number of people on the list cook desserts. I am not a
cook, nor am I a coffee expert, but I think I have learned enough to
know that you don't have to brew coffee this long in order to fully
extract the brew from the grounds, so I'm assuming most of this
process is a sort of candy making, which must be done carefully so
that the coffee isn't turned to tar by scorching it or boiling off the
more volatile agents responsible for the more delicate flavors. Does
that sound reasonable?
Brian

66) From: Ed Needham
Noooo!  Don't stir!  Let it rise and take it slowly from the heat, and 
slowly put it back on the heat after it settles down.  Stirring it will turn 
it to dreck.
Do that twice or maybe three times if your technique allows without it going 
flat and as it rises the last time, quickly dump it into the cups.  The 
grounds will settle and it will be wonderful if you drink it quickly.
*********************
Ed Needham
"to absurdity and beyond!"
ed at homeroaster dot com
(include [FRIEND] somewhere in the subject line of any email correspondence)
*********************

67) From: Brian Kamnetz
Ed,
Do you stir when you first put the coffee grounds into the water? Or
never stir at all? And, do you add the sugar and coffee at the same
time, or add the sugar and stir to dissolve it?
Thanks,
Brian
On 12/31/05, Ed Needham  wrote:
<Snip>
urn
<Snip>
ing
<Snip>
ce)
<Snip>
ribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>

68) From: Ed Needham
I stir the grounds and sugar into the cold water.  I use a hand crank 
Turkish mill that makes a talc like powder of the grounds.   I guess if you 
buzz it long enough and shake it as it grinds, a whirly blade grinder 
'might' grind fine enough.
*********************
Ed Needham
"to absurdity and beyond!"
ed at homeroaster dot com
(include [FRIEND] somewhere in the subject line of any email correspondence)
*********************

69) From: Craig Wichner
Hi Brian,
I stir the sugar into the cold water, and then just "tamp" the coffee powde=
r
on top of the water so it forms a kind of seal over the water.  The water
will seep into the grounds and soak them as you heat the water, and I think
this process results in the foaming happening at lower temperatures...and
thus hopefully below the temperature of forming that "tar".  From a physics
perspective, the more dissolved solids in the water, the higher the boiling
temperature. The first time I stir the coffee into the water is at the firs=
t
foaming.
Here's a website that describes a the process most similar to how I make
Turkish coffee: http://www.ineedcoffee.com/04/turkishcoffee/Note that it usually takes me 15 min +/- to make a two cup batch. Would lov=
e
to hear your tasting thoughts on the two different methods.
Enjoy!
Craig in Marin

70) From: Espressoperson
In a message dated 1/1/2006 10:48:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
wichner writes:
Note that it usually takes me 15 min +/- to make a two cup batch. Would love 
to hear your tasting thoughts on the two different methods. 
Enjoy!
Craig in Marin
Thanks for the link. I stay further from the neck than described but can see 
the advantage of the smaller surface area to help with foaming versus boiling. 
Although I can see a lot more opportunity for creating a mess moving so close 
to the top. I may try this some day when I'm feeling adventurous and haven't 
had too much alcohol with dinner.
I don't bother to stir the sugar, and don't stir the coffee, before or after 
foaming. I would have thought that stirring after foaming would dissipate the 
foam but that doesn't seem to be the case from the writeup. I look forward to 
trying this.
The whole process takes me about 5 or 6 minutes start to finish. I crank up 
the heat real high until the first sign of bubbles. About 3 min. Then lower 
heat way down and let the water slowly "melt" the coffee cap and proceed to first 
foaming. About 1 or 2 min. Then the additional two foamings, less than half 
min for each. Then off the heat for another half minute and pour.
BTW, here's one tip for those using an electric stove to make this kind of 
coffee. Musical burners. Set each burner at a different temperature. One high, 
one low or simmer, one med high, one med low. Then you can quickly adjust 
temperature by moving from burner to burner rather than trying to adjust the temp 
on one burner.
MichaelB

71) From: Craig Wichner
Great though on using two burners. I had been lifting up an edge of the
ibrik to moderate heat. I also sat at medium heat since I didn't want to
overshoot the foam temp and head straight to the cleanup phase.
Hmmm, is that turkish music I hear coming from the kitchen this morning...
Thanks again,
Craig in Marin
On 1/1/06, Espressoperson  wrote:
<Snip>
 I
<Snip>
f
<Snip>

72) From: Brian Kamnetz
I think I am getting the hang of Turkish coffee. It's clear that there
are several versions of brewing (or maybe "stewing" would be closer).
One way to categorize the different methods would be stir vs. not
stir. Today I tried "not stir" for the first time. I used 112 g water
and 14 g coffee.
I put the water into the ibrik and added a tsp of sugar, then a dash
more, and did not stir. When I first started trying to make Turkish
coffee I initially dug out my old whirlyblade grinder and used it to
pulverize the coffee, but the last couple batches I have ground with a
Zass 169DG cranked down about as tight as I can crank it and still be
able to turn it. The first time I used the Zass I dumped the coffee
directly from the 169 drawer into the ibrik. Today I spooned it in,
trying to get an even layer on the surface of the water.
I placed the ibrik on an electric burner set to medium, and carefully
watched the surface. As per usual, the changes to the surface were so
subtle that it was hard to note the changes, but using a mark on the
inside of the ibrik I was able to track the rising of the surface
materials. When they had risen about a quarter of an inch I noted the
big bulge beginning to form on one side, so I tried something new,
rotating the ibrik so that the opposite side of the ibrik was on the
hot spot, and waited half a minute or so until the bulge appeared on
the new side, and removed the ibrik from the heat. I turned the heat
down quite a bit and placed the ibrik on the stove top to settle for a
couple minutes. I repeated the process two more times (one more than I
have been doing), and was lucky enough in monitoring the surface that
the surface never collapsed. (Previous advice from this list implied
that the processes included in the collapse of the surface material
coincide with sharp deterioration of the coffee.)
When I poured the coffee into the demitasse, most of the surface
material stayed in the ibrik; the surface material that did go into
the demitasse seemed like candied coffee grounds.
The big difference with not stirring, compared to stirred batches, was
that the unstirred batch has little crystalized particles that seem to
be candied coffee grounds. They are quite tasty.
The 14 g of coffee was a little more (usual = 11g) and I liked the
result and will continue to use at least this much coffee for this
amount of water. I think I will try a little less sugar next time.
Thanks to all who have offered advice on the Turkish coffee process.
Brian

73) From: Zara Haimo
All this discussion of how best to make ibrik coffee made me want to try to
see what it would taste like with freshly roasted beans - last time I made
it was ages ago with store bought beans.  Yesterday I found my ibrik,
cleaned out the dust, and tried the no-stir method with the grounds forming
a crust on top.  I was very, very pleased with the results - very smooth,
amazingly non-bitter.  I made enough so two of my teenaged kids tried a cup
and they both liked it.
A Greek friend likes my home roast French press so much I often send her
home with whatever roasted beans I can spare.  Next time she's over, I'm
going to try this method to see if she likes it.  Whenever she's served me
Greek coffee made with whatever beans she usually buys, it's been too bitter
for my taste.  I don't know what method she uses to make it or if the
problem is just her stale beans, but I'll be curious to see how she reacts
to my freshly roasted beans and the no stir method.

74) From: Brian Kamnetz
Zara,
I look forward to hearing how it all turns out.
Brian
On 1/7/06, Zara Haimo  wrote:
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ribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>

75) From: Michael Dhabolt
I also will be waiting for the results.
Mike (just plain - thinking of trying an ibrik)

76) From: Espressoperson
In a message dated 1/7/2006 10:56:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, zara 
writes:
All this discussion of how best to make ibrik coffee made me want to try to
see what it would taste like with freshly roasted beans - last time I made
it was ages ago with store bought beans.  Yesterday I found my ibrik,
cleaned out the dust, and tried the no-stir method with the grounds forming
a crust on top.  I was very, very pleased with the results - very smooth,
amazingly non-bitter.  I made enough so two of my teenaged kids tried a cup
and they both liked it.
We seen to vary in opinions on a few issues...
- Add sugar: yes or no
- Amount of grinds and liquid
- Stir before, during, or after adding grinds - yes or no
- Number of foamings: 3 or less or even more
And we seem to agree on a few things...
- Grind as fine as you can
- Use fresh coffee
- Don't let the water boil
- It tastes delicious!
There are probably as many ways to make this as their are Turks and Greeks, 
not to mention coffeegeeks!
MichaelB

77) From: Brian Kamnetz
I made a batch of Turkish this morning. I filled a demitasse twice
(117 g) and added to the ibrik, and added 1 1/2 tsp of sugar. I used
my Zass 169DG to grind very finely 15 g of coffee and added that to
the ibrik. I did not stir at any time.
I'm cursed with an electric stove and used a small front burner with
the heat control knob set at the 9:00 position. As the ibrik was
heating I rotated it around the burner, keeping the handle oriented to
my right. This rotated the bottom of the ibrik over the outside of the
burner, which seems hotter than the inside of the burner, so that the
"hot" spot rotated around the bottom of the ibrik.
Presently small bubbles began forming on one edge of the sludge
floating on top of the water in the ibrik. The small bubbles were over
the outside edge of the burner, so I began slowly rotating the ibrik
in place. As I did, the bubbles moved correspondingly around the
sludge pack. I had a very nice frothing going and maintained it for
around 20 secs, I suppose, before removing the ibrik and setting it on
the stove top. After a min or so I returned the ibrik to the burner
but never got another foaming; instead, after a min or so it began a
slow boil, so I stopped brewing.
The results were delicious, much different and much better than any
Turkish I had previously made. However, I think the primary reason for
the improvement is the coffee I used. Thursday I roasted some Horse.
For whatever reason, that roast progressed very slowly, with 1st
progressing very leisurely from 3:50 - 6:00 and second starting at
7:50. Because the roast was progressing so calmly, and because the
Horse was roasting unevenly, I continued the roast to 8:45. The Horse
has been resting since. I have never added cardamon to coffee, but I
wouldn't doubt that the Horse flavor is similar only much better than
cardamon probably is when added to Turkish.
Brian
On 1/1/06, Espressoperson  wrote:
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78) From: MSMB
Tomorrow we are having a rapidly put together lunch with the family of my
daughter's partner.  They are Lebanese and his mother is about the most
extraordinary cook I know.  Eating dinner at their house is like a scene out
of Babette's Feast (if you have not seen the movie, it is in my opinion the
best food movie I have seen.. it is and old movie but well worth digging out
from your video provider).  Well I do not aspire ever to match her talent,
which is OK: I think we are all happy to be together to celebrate our
children and to see that they are happy together.  But my
sort-of-son-in-law's mom has mentioned that I make the best coffee around (a
tribute to good beans and nothing more... I read this list but basically
just throw my fresh beans in the I-roast for about 8 1/2 minutes and tweak
the roast as needed) and tomorrow I would like to try a Turkish coffee;
something I have had at her house several times.  I do not have an Ibrik,
but thought I might just try an aluminum sauce pan (suggestions on a
substitute are welcome).  I have read the instructions for preparation at
Sweet Maria's; but can I use my Yrig greens for the coffee?  I Assume they
should be roasted very dark?  To a Vienna roast (which I take to mean bright
and shiny with oil).  Is this correct?

79) From: Homeroaster
Making Turkish coffee is something that is not easily learned from reading 
about it.  If you've had it at her house before and liked it, maybe your 
host can show you how it's done.  The tapered ibrik is essential, in my 
opinion, although I made pretty good Turkish with a one cup pyrex tea pot 
for a while.  It even allows you a glimpse of what's going on below the 
surface.  I'd say that might be an acceptable alternative.
As to the coffee and roast, it's all about flavor.  Great coffee makes great 
Turkish.  I personally would not roast the beans dark.  I'd roast them to 
the point where they taste the best.
The traditional Turkish coffees all came from that growing region due to the 
difficult logistics of getting coffee from other places, so any Indonesian 
or African coffees can be used if tradition is your goal.  If flavor is your 
goal, use what you like, and forget about tradition.
Grind it to a powder in a Turkish hand mill.  I usually eyeball it, but I'd 
say use about 3 ounces of cold, good tasting water, 1 1/2 tablespoons of 
coffee, and two rounded teaspoons of sugar.  Stir the mixture together and 
put it on medium heat.  Watch it <<>> closely, and when you begin to 
see movement around the edges, get ready to lift the pot away from the heat 
and keep the mixture from crowning and rolling onto a boil.
(If it does, it goes flat and dies a very painful death.  The result is a 
terrible, muddy, bitter lifeless drink.)
Let the crown fall back as you pull it away from the heat and then let it 
slowly go back onto the heat and rise again.  If you like it strong, and you 
are a gambler, let it rise three times and dump the whole mixture into your 
cup.
If you've done well, the result is a coffee drink unlike no other.  Creamy, 
sweet, aromatic, clear and with an aftertaste that lingers for an hour.  I 
love it.
*********************
Ed Needham
"to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************

80) From: MSMB
Very nice post. Thanks... a coffee no doubt worthy of the children and
Babette's feast. I will give it a try.

81) From: Angelo
If you happen to have a frothing pitcher, you could use that for an Ibrik.
For grinding you could use a whirly-blade grinder and keep spinning 
till it's a talc consistency OR you could use a mortar and pestle. It 
doesn't take much work to crush coffee beans to a powder...If the M&P 
has previously been used for spices, all the better. :-)
The Greeks I know swear that if your spoon doesn't stand up straight 
in it, it's not strong enough...:-)
A
<Snip>

82) From: Homeroaster
You might want to be careful not to trample cultural feelings but trying to 
make Turkish in her home.  It's a very ritualized and serious 'ceremony' in 
many homes and cultures.
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************

83) From: Angelo
Absolutely correct. Each of those mid-eastern 
cultures name that same process according to the 
country they're from and get very offended 
(there's that word, again) if you mistakenly call 
it by a different culture's name...
Also, the kitchen is the domain/territory of the 
females in the house and making coffee, by hand, 
is the last vestige of a rulership. Tread 
carefully. I would bring the beans and grind them 
there, but I would let your mum-in-law do the 
actual brewing. A co-operative effort might help 
you ladies bond across cultures.
Many years ago, when instant (gag!) coffee was 
introduced, it did not sell. The marketing people 
were dismayed. They thought this would be 
welcomed as another time-saving product for the 
busy housewife. Upon further research, they found 
that, because of all the other labor-saving 
devices in the kitchen, from the dishwasher to 
the TV dinners, women were feeling that their 
role as the queen of the kitchen was being 
threatened. There was still one thing left that 
they could take pride in, and that was their 
skill in making a good cup of coffee. The instant coffee threatened this.
It was then that the marketing folks decided to 
tell the women that they had to "brew" the coffee 
for one-minute to bring out the "true flavor" 
(gag!) of instant coffee. It flew off the shelves...
Again, tread carefully :-)
A
<Snip>

84) From: MSMB
Well, it worked out pretty well.  First of all, we had lunch in my house and
while the people are close to their Lebanese origins they have been in the
USA for many years.  They are well educated --the man of the family is a
physician-- and they have brought their children up as Americans, though
with an appreciation of their heritage (they put on music from back home at
a party, dance as they do when they go back to the middle east, smoke water
pipes with fragrant tobacco after dinner, cook traditional foods, make
Turkish coffee...). Among the women there is a consciousness of "the old
ways" and the "new ways."  My daughter's mother in law would have liked to
be educated "in the new way" and she respects my daughter, who is a PhD
student.  I have heard her say after a visit back to Lebanon to see her
family that she would not like to return there to live. And yet, she is very
dedicated to her Lebanese identity. I have had the wonderful fortune of
being integrated to a pleasant extent (perhaps not fully, but I feel
welcome) into the local arabic community (mostly physicians and other sorts
of doctors) ... and I am Jewish.  We appreciate and respectfully accept the
different opinions that I am sure do exist, but which we have never really
discussed, and we try to find turf on which we can have a fruitful
relationship. Just today we all agreed that the madness in the middle east
must end, though we have not discussed any solutions, except to say that we
just do not know what to do.  Most important to me, aside from my
relationship, is that they are very, very nice to my daughter, and their son
has brought the very strong sense of family that his parents instilled in
him to his relationship with my daughter and with us. Being a Jew, being an
Arab, etc. has some importance in our lives, but ultimately people are
people. We must remember that culture is learned behavior.  
Now, having said this, I can report that we made the coffee together, with
me receiving instructions.  The mom-in-law was not at all concerned about
the lack of an ibrik; we used a sauce pan with a copper bottom.  She had me
bring the water to boil, remove it from the stove top and add a heaping
teaspoon of coffee for each demitasse cup. We also added about 1/4 teaspoon
of cardamom for approximately 7 cups. Then everything went back on the
stove, brought to a boil and simmered. It tasted pretty good, but not as it
does at her house.  She thought the grind was not powdery enough (I tried
regrinding in my Maestro classic at the finest setting and almost did clog
the machine, so we had to use it at the Maestro's setting). One of the most
interesting parts of the experience was hearing how her mother in law
prepares the coffee, starting with roasting the beans in her oven. She
begins to make the coffee hours before it is served and it goes through
various phases, ultimately yielding, besides the coffee, grinds that will be
used the next day. I wouldn't try to repeat all of the process... we all had
too much to drink for me to remember!

85) From: Homeroaster
It sounds like you and your family had a good time.  That's what it is all 
about.
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************

86) From: Paul Helbert
Recently got my first ibrik and brewed up some of a couple of Tom's
espresso blends in it. Wow, interesting stuff and less sediment than
with a French press! I used 2 SCAA scoops of beans and a level
tablespoon of sugar in a little "3 cup" ibrik. Will cut the sugar back
by half next try. The sugar dominated at that dosage level but was it
ever smooth.
Does anyone know, generally, what makes a Turkish blend, other than
maybe the addition of some cardamon seeds?
I recently had correspondence from Derek stating that SM hopes to have
their ibriks back in stock again this summer and may be scouting for
more at the SCAA show.
-- 
Paul Helbert
Prepackaged, roasted & ground coffee,,,
Some of the worst ideas since sliced bread.
Homeroast mailing list
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87) From: Bill
As far as historically, I do believe that they were Yemeni coffees roasted
very very dark.  How dark, I don't know, hadn't thought about that, but I
guess I'd think like French or so... but others would know better than I...
 Glad to hear that the ibrik was such a success!  bill
On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 10:58 AM, Paul Helbert 
wrote:
<Snip>
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88) From: Tim TenClay
When we were in Turkey a few years ago, everyone used Columbian beans (no
cardamon.. I was told that was "Arabic" coffee, not "Turkish" -- Not trying
to pick a fight.. just what I was told) :-)
Grace and Peace,
 `tim
On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 12:58 PM, Paul Helbert 
wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
The content of this e-mail may be private or of confidential nature.
Do not forward without permission of the original author.
--
Rev. Tim TenClay, NATA #253
Dunningville Reformed Church (www.dunningville.org)
Blog:http://lexorandi.tenclay.orgHomeroast mailing list
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89) From: Coffee
I've got a real live Turk sitting about 20 feet away... so I asked  
him. He says they call it "coffee". He says that they jokingly/ 
derogatorily call coffee prepared the way we do over here  
"nescafe" (he laughed when he said it, so I didn't take offense ;-) --  
He also said he would teach me how to make it :-)
-Peter
On Apr 18, 2008, at 1:42 PM, Tim TenClay wrote:
<Snip>
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90) From: MichaelB
Peter,
Also ask him what he calls the pot in which the coffee is brewed.
On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 6:17 PM, Coffee  wrote:
<Snip>
--
MichaelB
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91) From: Sean Cary
In Iraq in '06 I bought a grinder and a Jeswue from Turkish vendor outside
the PX at Camp Victory, Baghdad - he told me an Ibrik was a tea pot...  This
year at Fallujah, got the hairs cut by a Turk every week for 7 months - same
thing, it was a jeswue not an Ibrik.  So I am not sure what country calls it
an Ibrik, but it isn't the Turks that I met.
(Jeswue is a rough guess as to how it would be spelled - GESWE is about how
it sounded).
Sean
On Sat, Apr 19, 2008 at 12:34 PM, MichaelB  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Sean M. Cary
Major USMC
Tempus Fugit, Memento Mori
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92) From: Paul Helbert
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93) From: Sean Cary
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94) From: raymanowen
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dHA6Ly9saXN0cy5zd2VldG1hcmlhc2NvZmZlZS5jb20vbGlzdGluZm8uY2dpL2hvbWVyb2FzdC1z
d2VldG1hcmlhc2NvZmZlZS5jb20KSG9tZXJvYXN0IGNvbW11bml0eSBwaWN0dXJlcyA5dXBsb2Fk
IHlvdXJzISkgOiBodHRwOi8vd3d3LmhvbWVyb2FzdGluZy5jb20vZ2FsbGVyeS9tYWluLnBocD9n
Ml9pdGVtSWQ9NzgyMA==

95) From: Coffee
He said:
That pot is called "cezve" for you to read correctly probably written  
like this "jazvah".
The Yemenites are calling it "Ibrik" read like "ebreq".
-Peter
On Apr 19, 2008, at 9:34 AM, MichaelB wrote:
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96) From: Coffee
My Turkish co-worker's parents are visiting and they brought me a  
grinder and a set of cups and saucers with very cool design, both made  
in Turkey!
-Peter
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97) From: Coffee
... and some coffee that comes from a coffee company that has been in  
business since 1871!!
-Peter
On Jun 2, 2008, at 12:08 PM, Coffee wrote:
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98) From: Paul Helbert
I took my ibrik, knee mill, camping stove and SM skunk espresso cups
to the farmer's market last Saturday. Showed it to Mr. Ahkmedov who
sells the Akhaska bread near my chicken stand. He called it an ibrik,
by the way. I told him I'd make coffee in it and then things got real
busy with customers. I turned my back for a minute and had coffee all
over the bed of the pickup and almost none in the ibrik. His bread
sold out before my last customer showed up and he came looking for the
coffee. I hadn't had time to grind as much as I'd have liked so it was
a tad weaker than normal for Turkish, but he pronounced it "good". It
was, too.
Hope yours is as good.
-- 
Paul Helbert
Prepackaged, roasted & ground coffee,,,
Some of the worst ideas since sliced bread.
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99) From: Brian Salwasser
Hello everyone,
I saw that SM's has begun selling Ibriks again, and I am curious if any of
you have them or have brewed Turkish coffee.  Have you enjoyed it?  Are
there any beans you would recommend?
Thanks,
Brian
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100) From: J.W.Bullfrog
No, but when I was in Istanbul it was great!
But then I like sweet.
On 8/25/08, Brian Salwasser  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.
I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
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101) From: Brian Kamnetz
Yippee, the ibriks are back! It's been a long time, close to three
years, I bet! Thanks for the heads-up. I just ordered one of the
glazed ones:http://www.sweetmarias.com/prod.brewers.ibrik.shtmlBrian
On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 4:10 PM, Brian Salwasser
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102) From: Bill
No!  No!  No!  I have too many brewing methods with which I am not adept!  I
don't care if it's another 3 years until they come back!  Of course, they
are nice-looking... ha!
nice score, Brian.  And thanks, Brian S., for the heads up!
bill
On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 2:36 PM, Brian Kamnetz  wrote:
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103) From: Paul Helbert
There is a Turkish fellow who sells wonderful breads and sweet treats at the
local farmer's market. I made coffee in a small ibrik and split it with him
a few months ago and it seems to have made us instant friends.
Making Turkish (Greek) coffee is fun and the resultant brew is good. I
usually so not use sugar as is usually done around the Mediterranean. There
are pointers on making it on SM, CoffeeGeek and others. Just Google it.
-- 
Paul Helbert
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104) From:
I make turkish coffee all the time in a brass ibrik. I have had every coffee that way. They are all good. I have particularly enjoyed yemen, dreaming that I am drinking one of the original coffees in an ancient way.
Dean De Crisce
Sent from a Treo phone.

105) From: Brian Kamnetz
Great imagery, Dean. Thanks for bringing out a new dimension in coffee
enjoyment!
Brian
On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 5:20 PM,   wrote:
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106) From: Brian Salwasser
Thanks for the tips everyone, especially Dean.  I have 1/2 lb. of Yemen
Mokha Sana'ani in my stash.  I'm going to order an Ibrik and see how it
goes!
On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 2:31 PM, Brian Kamnetz  wrote:
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107) From:
Yummmm...im gonna do the same. Its thick coffee, not unlike FP but smoother. I have on occasion used a tiny pinch of cardamon...very interesting.
I have also had much interest in the etiopian roast/brew coffee ceremony. I have wanted to get ahold of their small pan roaster that is used. 
They roast, grind by essentially mortar, and brew in one session for centuries. Anybody know about these things.
Dean De Crisce
Sent from a Treo phone.

108) From:
Yummmm...im gonna do the same. Its thick coffee, not unlike FP but smoother. I have on occasion used a tiny pinch of cardamon...very interesting.
I have also had much interest in the etiopian roast/brew coffee ceremony. I have wanted to get ahold of their small pan roaster that is used. 
They roast, grind by essentially mortar, and brew in one session for centuries. Anybody know about these things.
Dean De Crisce
Sent from a Treo phone.

109) From:
Yummmm...im gonna do the same. Its thick coffee, not unlike FP but smoother. I have on occasion used a tiny pinch of cardamon...very interesting.
I have also had much interest in the etiopian roast/brew coffee ceremony. I have wanted to get ahold of their small pan roaster that is used. 
They roast, grind by essentially mortar, and brew in one session for centuries. Anybody know about these things.
Dean De Crisce
Sent from a Treo phone.

110) From: Benjamin VerHage
Quick question about grinding for turkish coffee. I was looking at the Zassenhaus turkish grinder on SM's page. and was wondering if it actually grinds differently than the other Zass grinders, or if it was functionally the same and made for portability/travel?
Has anyone used the turkish grinder for drip coffee? It definitely looks easier to pack for traveling.
----- Original Message ----
From: "decrisce.md" 
To: homeroast
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 4:34:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] Turkish Coffee
Yummmm...im gonna do the same. Its thick coffee, not unlike FP but smoother. I have on occasion used a tiny pinch of cardamon...very interesting.
I have also had much interest in the etiopian roast/brew coffee ceremony. I have wanted to get ahold of their small pan roaster that is used. 
They roast, grind by essentially mortar, and brew in one session for centuries. Anybody know about these things.
Dean De Crisce
Sent from a Treo phone.

111) From: raymanowen
"...grind by essentially mortar, and brew in one session for centuries.
Anybody know about these things."
You must recall that there are members of the list for whom the strain of
aiming a heat gun and stirring beans for the HG/DB roast is very great.
I did the mortar and pestle grinder thing for One (1) 8cup drip pot, Once!
Long, Long Time ago. The Cherry micro switch at the end of the push button /
pushrod had a coffee particle in it.
It only took about thirty years to find its way into the switch. A quick
blast of brake cleaner made it all better after I had it apart. I'm sure
that blade grinder made less of a grind potpourri than the mortar and
pestle. The hand said Thanks!
The goats were ahead of their time. What looked like a dance to the
inexperienced eye was actually the hoof 'n slate grind of some cherries that
had already been roasted by a camp fire.
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
Got Grinder?
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112) From: Paul Helbert
RayO,
I look for your byline first thing every morning and almost always get a
good laugh to start my day. You are one of the many folks on this list I'd
like to meet someday (if only to find out if your humor is spontaneous of if
you spend hours crafting your remarks).
Thanks,
On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 4:18 AM,  wrote:
<Snip>
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113) From: Dave Huddle
The Zass Turkish grinder is adjustable over a wide range from powder to chunks.
I've used it for a variety of brewers, but not yet for making Turkish,
Greek, etc. coffee.
Dave
Westerville, OH
On 8/26/08, Benjamin VerHage  wrote:
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114) From: Barry Luterman
The burrs are smaller on the Zass Turkish grinder, as well as the
reservoirs holding both the beans and the ground coffee. It will grind
very fine. Probably fine enough for
Turkish coffee. I have never used mine for that. I use mine for travel
since it requires very little packing space. The main drawback is you
have to turn the crank a lot more for less ground coffee than a
regular Zass. I do really like it for travelling.
On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 4:16 PM, Benjamin VerHage
 wrote:
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115) From: Brian Salwasser
Dean,
I couldn't answer any of your questions about grinding, but I do have one of
the small pan roasters that is used in Ethiopia.  My wife facilitates
international adoptions, and has traveled a few times with families to Adis
Ababa.  She was impressed with their roasting methods (small pan over an
open fire), and brought back a pan for me this last February.  I haven't
used it yet, because I only have access to an electric stove and I just
don't see that working.  We did go camping last month, and I thought about
bringing it to roast some beans over the camp fire as a demonstration for my
wife's family.  Then I thought I would just be ruining some good beans.  I
did bring some the fresh roasted Yemen, Ethiopian Sidamo, and the Italian
Espresso Blend beans I roasted via the Behmor.  My brother-in-law had a car
adapter so that I could plug in a whirly blade grinder every morning.  We
boiled water over the camp-fire and I brought my "camping" FP (REI gift
registry for our wedding last year).  They loved it, but oddly enough most
of them enjoyed the espresso blend the most.  The exception was the few
people who drank my coffee without creamer (talk about insults...).
Ok, that's enough rambling for one day.
Enjoy your three-day weekend everyone!
Brian
On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 4:34 PM,  wrote:
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116) From: Tomenid
I learned to make Turkish coffee in a small Turkish village while serving  in 
the Peace Corps in the mid 1960s. Ahmet taught me to bring the ibrik to a  
first boil, stir, then rapidly bring to a second boil, stop and then bring to a  
third boil and then stop and pour. The second and third boils come very fast 
and  the main purpose behind the third is to settle the grounds. I've been 
making  perfect Turkish coffee this way for 40 years.
 
Tom
**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel 
deal here.      
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117) From:
Thanks Brian. Interesting camping story.
Dean De Crisce
Sent from a Treo phone.

118) From: dan weeks
        Hi - I'm a beginner.  In order to reproduce a cup of Turkish  
Coffee I had in the Cairo market  25 years go,
        I bought a Behmor and learned to roast SM Yemen beans.  Then I  
got one of their beautiful new ibriks.
        I have an old Turkish hand crank grinder that barely works,  
but it does produce a talcum powder like grind
<Snip>
       but still not as fine as talcum powder.
       In any case, my first cup, as per SM instructions, produced an  
out-of-body hallucinatory experience that was intense
       and amazing, and kept me high for five or six hours - I want to  
do it again!
       If I get a Mazzer Mini, will it, or any other burr grinder,  
produce that talcum powder like consistency of the hand
       grinders?  Apparently the Zassen hand grinders are unavailable.
       Thanks,    Dan
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119) From: Les
Dan,
You can grind nice and fine with the Mazzer Mini.  I can't vouch for
the Rocky, because I have never ground that fine with one.
Les
On 9/4/08, dan weeks  wrote:
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120) From: Barry Luterman
Mazzer Mini is capable to make a grind one could snort
On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 7:01 AM, Les  wrote:
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121) From: Scott Miller
I can attest to that .... the grinding, that is. 
cheers,
Scott
On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 2:04 PM, Barry Luterman  wrote:
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122) From: miKe mcKoffee
Loved your sharing the 'trip'. Now you have an idea of what some experience
with a 'spro godshot. (Hmmm, ahhhhallucinatory cup now, next Turkish brewing
use it to wash down some 'shrooms:-)
Yes, grinders like the MM can grind super fine for Turkish. "Any other" burr
grinder is too open ended. You need very very tight steps or better yet
stepless AND need good ridged burr carrier so the burrs can grind extrememly
fine without clashing. I highly suspect grinding that fine "could" be done
with Maestro class grinders, but considering how fast grinding for 'spro
dulls the Maestro burrs it'd only be worse for Turkish.
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffeehttp://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must">http://www.mcKonaKoffee.comURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
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123) From: Joseph Robertson
Dan,
Wow, Turkish Coffee in Cairo, sounds like one of those peak life
experiences.
I collect coffee grinders. I finally found the original Zass Turkish grinder
of my dreams. An ebay find. Virtually new. Beautiful little units. They can
be found if you really want one. True, lots of arm work. For me It's all
part of the "out-of-body hallucinatory experience".
Do you have any kids that like to work gadgets? Put them to work with a
Zass.
Happy Turkish,
JoeR
On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 9:11 PM, dan weeks  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Ambassador for Specialty Coffee and pallet reform.
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124) From: raymanowen
Dan, you want Fine? Burrs can definitely do it- maybe not the hybrid toys
like Solis, Virtuoso.
I put new burrs in my used grinder when I first got it- The new burrs were
waiting when Brown came to the porch sweating, hugging a big box. Whoopee!
I have used the grinder to grind whole kernel Hard Red Winter Wheat to flour
for bread and bagel making. It makes mighty fine flour when the adjusting
ring is set to 2, 3 or 4. I've only done that flour grinding a few times.
It's the only way I can get fresh ground whole grain flour. It works OK, but
I didn't get the Mazzer for that purpose...
Normal for press is about 52 and the last gorgeous espresso was ground at
19. I arbitrarily set the BUFF to 7, to get smaller than 0.005" coffee
particle size for my sojourn into Turkish coffee. It wurkt good.
Steamed the 186° water in the Technivorm pot back up to 201°- just read=
y to
boil over. Pour over grounds in borosilicate glass Bodum cup. Steam the
brewing coffee a couple of more times to maintain the temperature in the
insulated glass. The steam wand can't actually boil it, but so close.  Just
let it sit to steep and settle out for the last minute. Ray's way!
Decanted a couple of sips of the 4-minute-brewed coffee into my mouth. Wow!
The toasted Hazelnuts were back with caramel, semi sweet chocolate and maybe
tart cherries. I love it!
Actually, the Solis Maestro +  came set very tight from their assembly line.
It almost made dust three steps below Drip index mark. One more step, and
the burrs clashed. The Virtuoso burrs also clashed at about the same spot
when I installed them for my friend.
The Solis Maestro, Virtuoso, Bodum Antigua, and the Zassenhaus grinders all
had the so-called hybrid burrs Long before some Madison Avenue jock decided
to fleece the gullible $4 / gallon public with a new moniker on the old burr
configuration. The new machines with the new moniker are far more complex.
Lots of nooks, crannies to hide ground coffee. Just wait until the new
owners discover the Tyranny of Numbers, or vice-versa.
If the available space or your spouse won't accommodate the grinder, get out
the chain saw!
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 10:11 PM, dan weeks  wrote:
<Snip>
 I
<Snip>
fee.com
<Snip>
ee.com
<Snip>
-- =
"When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the Mighty
Wichita (ex- NYC Paramount) WurliTzer- 1976
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125) From: dan weeks
Thanks for the feedback everyone.
Have to admit that even the pulverized grind from the Bodum has been  
enough to change my life.
I used to drink 2 thermos a day of whatever brown water I could find.
Now, one good Turkish in the morning and I'm good  for the day!
However, I might still add the Mazzer Mini because, in addition to the  
Turkish Heaven,
I'm now  tempted to explore the Lever Espresso world of the Gaggia  
Achilles.
Beginner's question:
Can a properly pulled shot of espresso ever approach the sublime rush  
of a real Turkish?
Or is Espresso really just gilding the lily?
Thanks - Dan
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126) From: Brian Kamnetz
I was into Turkish coffee for a short while, and during that time
someone on the list suggested motor and pestle for grinding for
Turkish. I purchased a motor and pestle, but by the time it arrived I
had moved on to moka pot extracting and never tried the motor and
pestle for Turkish. If it works, it would be a cheap way of grinding
for Turkish without ever having to replace the burrs.
Brian
On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 12:11 AM, dan weeks  wrote:
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127) From: dan weeks
Thanks Brian - I tried the mortar and pestle early in my research -  
this method is extremely  laborious, time consuming and produced  
uneven results -
perhaps my mortar and pestle are too small  - a larger surface- 
grinding  area might be faster and more consistent, but in either case  
I'm too lazy to do it every day!
Dan
On Sep 6, 2008, at 10:13 AM, Brian Kamnetz wrote:
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128) From: Angelo
I use a motor and pestle and it works fine. I can't see using a $300 
grinder to do something which can easily be done with a $10 tool 
(Ikea has a nice M&P for that price). Roasted coffee beans are not 
very hard and are no match for a granite or marble M&P.
Btw, I have a couple of Turkish grinders, including a Zass. I still 
prefer the M&P.
Angelo
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129) From: Barry Dryden
When I did 2 years spook work in Eritrea (Asmara, Kagnew Station, late
60s), the locals only used
mortar and pestle for their turkish coffee.  Works great.
BarryD
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130) From:
It seems that to make turkish grind on the rocky, I have to set it essentially at true zero...but the carriers scrape...which concerns me. Any body use the rocky for that purpose?
Dean De Crisce
Sent from a Treo phone.

131) From: dan weeks
Les,
It seems you are a fan of the Cimbali Max Hybrid - will it grind  
Turkish equally as fine as the Mazzer Mini?
On Sep 5, 2008, at 11:01 AM, Les wrote:
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132) From: raymanowen
"...the carriers scrape...which concerns me."
The burrs of the Rocky look like the Mazzer burrs. They're identical and if
they "clash," the only part that touches is the flat outer edges, not the
cutting edges. No Damage is caused.
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
On Sat, Sep 6, 2008 at 7:42 PM,  wrote:
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133) From:
Espresso is king! I love turkish...but the quick pressure of espresso extraction brings out all the flavors in a much different way. Turkish to me is more like a concentrated press pot...espresso is entirely in a separate class. Have fun!
Dean De Crisce
Sent from a Treo phone.

134) From: Brian Kamnetz
I'll have to try my mortar and pestle and see how it works. I suppose
it would work best with a darker roast, since bean integrity would be
most compromised in a dark roast and the beans would break up more
easily.  My mortar and pestle is at home but I would guess it's about
3.5 inches across. Maybe the larger size will make it a bit easier to
use for coffee smashing. It's never been used for anything else, so I
don't have to worry about contamination.
Brian
On Sat, Sep 6, 2008 at 12:23 PM, dan weeks  wrote:
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135) From: raymanowen
Beginner's question:
"Can a properly pulled shot of espresso ever approach the sublime rush of a
real Turkish?"
Beginner's answer:
My original project to disprove the credibility of espresso has met with
utter and complete failure. I resolved to keep the test fair by trying my
best to make a good shot.
Let me tell you- It's been like the Sunrise and Cloudburst movements of *The
Grand Canyon Suite*. The longer I try to prove how bad espresso is, the
deeper I'm hooked. I really stepped in it when miKe sent me a Kona roast
tradition.
I already had the new burrs for it, and the Major arrived the next day. El
swappo - - the Maestro+ only got used once on the good beans. The nagging
problems I noticed with the Maestro's burrs weren't even so bad with the 10
year old burrs in the Major. With the new ones, my ship just came in.
Espresso isn't "as good as..." anything. It's a measure of the barista.
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
Got Grinder?
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136) From: Joseph Robertson
Dan,
I really like Dean De Crisce's response but Mabuhay -RayO response says it
all.
Don't compare espresso to anything.....
Check out the man behind the curtain.
JoeR
On Sat, Sep 6, 2008 at 6:17 AM, dan weeks  wrote:
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