HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Resting (57 msgs / 1481 lines)
1) From: Gregg Talton
I feel as though I'm starting from scratch... so, here's my question. 
Am I correct in assuming that if I roast a coffee darker it will
require less rest? I'm working on tomorrow's coffee and I usually like
48 hours rest.
Thanks!
Gregg T

2) From: tom ulmer
Generally speaking I believe you will find that to be true. I have found
beans and roasts that I was fond of from 6 hour to 12 day rest. Indications
from those that air roast seem to be that the rest is an integral part of
their routine.

3) From: Pecan Jim Gundlach
Gregg,
     I do find that a lighter roast benefits more from resting than a  
darker roast.  But, I regularly brew about everything I roast with  
less than a day's rest.  When I let myself run out, I will often take  
a roast a bit darker because I know I don't have time to let it rest.
On Aug 9, 2005, at 6:35 AM, Gregg Talton wrote:
<Snip>

4) From: Gregg Talton
I like Guatemalan and Panamas a bit on the light side regarding
roast... I just don't know how patient I'll be.  I roasted a bit too
light a few months back and would up with grassy flavors.
I do know that I like Monsooned Malibar with about five days rest...
I found all of my poppers last night and will be heading outside in a
few moments.
Gregg
Belmont, NC
On 8/9/05, Pecan Jim Gundlach  wrote:
<Snip>
ribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>

5) From: Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee
It makes sense to me, but somehow doesn't follow through in my 
cupping experience. Dark roasts should outgas faster due to the fact 
that C02 can escape easier through the ruptured walls. But I still 
think they need 24 hours. There are coffees I like really fresh, like 
12 hour rest. Others suffer greatly. You get some really dynamic 
aspects out of the Harar and Yemeni coffees, for example, after 12 
hours - the aromas are fantastic. But body, rounded mouthfeel, 
balance may suffer. Well, I think my point is that BOTH are good, 
both 12 hours and 72 hours on a Harar are good - just in different 
ways. Of course, storage method affects this. Now espresso is a whole 
different thing...
BTW: thanks to Deward for the interesting rely on the caffeine topic.
<Snip>
-- 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                   "Great coffee comes from tiny roasters"
            Sweet Maria's Home Coffee Roasting  -  Tom & Maria
                      http://www.sweetmarias.com                Thompson Owen george
     Sweet Maria's Coffee - 1115 21st Street, Oakland, CA 94607 - USA
             phone/fax: 888 876 5917 - tom

6) From: Erik Gilling
Quick question on resting.  How much of the resting is done un-sealed 
vs. sealed.
-Erik
Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee wrote:
<Snip>

7) From: Brent - SC/TO Roasting
My general rule of thumb is to leave fresh roasted in a
loosely-tightened jar then transfer to vacuum jars/bags after 12 - 24
hours.  That time lag mainly just depends on how busy I get, but
generally within one day of roasting.  If I'm going to use the coffee
in less than a week, I don't even bother to seal it.
After that, I'll let different beans rest different amounts of time.
For me, beans like island beans and Kenyans are better after longer
rests (3-5 days); and others like  Central Americans are fine after 24
hours.
-- 
Brent
Roasting in an SC/TO
Espressing myself in a Via Veneto and LaPavoni
On 8/9/05, Erik Gilling  wrote:
<Snip>

8) From: Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee
<Snip>
I am actually not the best person to talk about this because all my 
sample roasts need to get ground and used very rapidly - I leave 
samples in open trays after roasting in the PM and then cup in the 
AM. If not, I put them in clear plastic for resting 24-48 hours or so 
- after that doesn't really matter because  I would have already 
cupped it a few times by then. I like glass jars for storage but 
always left them cracked for the first 12 hours, then sealed them up. 
I don't know if this sounds superstitious, but I actually like to to 
physically disturb coffee as it rests, or open/close containers. I 
guess I take "resting" too literally!  -Tom
-- 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                   "Great coffee comes from tiny roasters"
            Sweet Maria's Home Coffee Roasting  -  Tom & Maria
                      http://www.sweetmarias.com                Thompson Owen george
     Sweet Maria's Coffee - 1115 21st Street, Oakland, CA 94607 - USA
             phone/fax: 888 876 5917 - tom

9) From:
Erik:
I think we have all tried both ways. I think you should as well. Depends on what you want as an end result.
ginny
<Snip>

10) From:
Tom:
very interesting. I do the same with my roasted beans.
Open/close, smell/look and taste as espresso all the time the beans are "resting". I usually end up with no beans before a selected rest time is over.
ginny
<Snip>

11) From: tom ulmer
I always thought of it as playing with the fruits of my labor - just
admiring the little beauties as I flip them around in their container. In
order to complete the ritual I have to inhale the aroma deeply after each
flip...

12) From: Donn Milton
I have yet to find a coffee that doesn't improve through about 72 hours of
rest. By "improve" I mean in the "body" dimension. I've roasted Kenyas to FC
or FC+ that I found unpleasantly thin after 1-2 days but were outstanding
after 3 days. That's for drip. I've always rested my espresso blends 3 days,
and haven't tried them with shorter rests.
For resting, within about 30 minutes of roasting I put the beans in a
vacuum-sealed Foodsaver canister, and then re-vacuum the canister once a day
while it rests.
Donn Milton

13) From: Rick Copple
Erik Gilling wrote:
<Snip>
I've done it all ways, I think. I use to feel that my roast in the wok, 
for some reason, tasted better if I left it out to the open air over 
night. No sealing or anything, just out in the open in the colander.
I think now, that was because initially I was working with a bean that 
tasted grassy if it was roasted to light (I didn't realize the bean was 
a different lot than previously and so I was expecting results like I 
had before, but it wasn't), and I had not had enough experience to 
realize I was pulling it too early so I was doing some pretty light 
roast with it. So, it seemed to help it to leave it out in the open all 
night, and I would seal it up the next morning.
Now, I tend to just put it in the bags and seal it up right after 
roasting. Right now, I'm drinking some Purple Mountain Kona that I 
roasted last night to a good full city, and tossed right into the bags 
shortly after cooling. This taste really super good right now, 
outstanding chocolate and great creamy body with a nice sweet finish 
that makes you keep drinking. Too bad I roasted my last 10 oz last night 
I had, and too bad there isn't any more to buy now. But I should have a 
few more pots of great coffee out of this batch!
I also roasted the last of a Kenya AA, lot 16? something. I'm letting it 
rest another day because I know these Kenyans can be on the bright side. 
Seems the African coffees benefit from more rest, where as the island 
coffees and some others that are milder can be good even right after 
roasting. I had my very first cup of home roasted coffee, a Costa Rican 
El Conquistador, right after I roasted it in an air popper, brewed in a 
press pot, and was hooked...couldn't put the cup down much less very far 
from my mouth.
However, everyone is different, and so probably the best advice is to do 
some experimenting yourself. With different coffees, roast and then brew 
a cup at different times of rest to find out how the coffee changes and 
at what stages you like the flavors. We can give some general ideas from 
our own experiences, but you will not know for yourself till you try it 
yourself. What I like, you may not, and what I don't like, you may. So, 
explore a bit, that is one of the great things about roasting your own 
coffee. None of us probably do it exactly the same. :-)
-- 
Rick Copple
Marble Falls, TX

14) From: Tim TenClay
At the risk of interrupting all of our other glorious conversation ;-)
I recall a conversation just a few days ago about resting - my presumption
had always been that you needed a longer rest for a darker roast (i.e.
shorter rests for lighter roasts).  That didn't seem to be what was
discussed, though.
As a general rule?  Which way should it be?
Grace and PEace,
  `tim
--
Rev. Tim TenClay, IAPC
Dunningville Reformed Church (www.dunningville.org)
Knots & More Tatting Supplies (www.knotsandmore.com) NATA #253
Personal Blog:http://www.tenclay.org/blog

15) From: Rich Adams
The other way around, hence the *recommended* 3 day rest for Kona which are 
usually roasted lighter.
Rich Adams

16) From: Woody DeCasere
I tried to experiment with a lighter roasted Kenya AA, but it was just
horrible at such a light roast i couldnt fnish the tests, but i do know my
darker roasted espresso roasts (not because espresso is a dark roast but i
like em that way) seem to last longer i really dont know , nor do i have th=
e
patioence to wait for the coffee to geet old. I drink it much too fast.
On 3/8/06, Tim TenClay  wrote:
<Snip>
n
<Snip>
--
"Good night, and Good Coffee"

17) From: Jason Brooks
<Snip>
From my experience, and past reading threads on it, a light (eg cinnamon)
needs a significant rest period, say 72+ hours.  I'm not doing my espresso
now, so my roasts are a bit, but not much lighter, in the Full City range.
 For beans like Kenya's and Sumatra-ish beans, I hold to a relative strict
72 hour rest.  I'll be cracking open some Blue Batak peaberry tomorrow
after about 60 hours rest.  I've been consuming an Indian Kohinoor on
first 12, then 36 hours rest and it was fine in a FP.  It's also fun to
taste the bean regularly as it rests, giving you an idea of where an
individual peaks at optimum.
Jason

18) From: tom ulmer
In my opinion... Using a solid drum roaster...
Lighter roasts need a bit more time than darker roasts to develop to what I
consider their flavor potential. Generally, lighter roasts have an
undeniable twang, or "hwang" as the lovelier portion of my life would say,
that fades into a desirable flavor (to me anyway) after rest. Darker roasts,
as a matter of personal experience, are routinely ground and brewed within
hours of roasting characterizing more desirable (once again according to my
household's papillae) flavors.

19) From: David Echelbarger
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Actually my experience is the opposite.  The darker the roast the less time
you need to rest.  I've rested some really lively City Plus beans as long as
four days.    Normally I'm drinking after one or two, however.  Decafs
require little if any rest, in my experience.  
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Tim TenClay
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 1:51 PM
To: Sweet Maria's Coffee List
Subject: +Resting
At the risk of interrupting all of our other glorious conversation ;-)  
I recall a conversation just a few days ago about resting - my presumption
had always been that you needed a longer rest for a darker roast (i.e.
shorter rests for lighter roasts).  That didn't seem to be what was
discussed, though. 
As a general rule?  Which way should it be?
Grace and PEace,
  `tim
-- 
Rev. Tim TenClay, IAPC
Dunningville Reformed Church (www.dunningville.org)
Knots & More Tatting Supplies ( 
www.knotsandmore.com) NATA #253
Personal Blog:http://www.tenclay.org/blog

20) From: Brett Mason
General rule?
   hmmm .... Six days of work, followed by one day of rest...
That's what I recall from my reading...
Brett
Oh, were you talking coffee?
On 3/8/06, Tim TenClay  wrote:
<Snip>
n
<Snip>
--
Regards,
Brett Mason
 HomeRoast
      __]_
   _(( )_  Please don't spill the coffee!

21) From: Tim TenClay
That general rule, I've run into before.....call it an occupational hazard =
;-)
On 3/8/06, Brett Mason  wrote:
<Snip>
ion
<Snip>
ribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>
--
Rev. Tim TenClay, IAPC
Dunningville Reformed Church (www.dunningville.org)
Knots & More Tatting Supplies (www.knotsandmore.com) NATA #253
Personal Blog:http://www.tenclay.org/blog

22) From: Larry Williams
It seems that the longer I roast the less I know.  A co-worker from 
Nicaragua gave me three pounds from her country.  I roasted three small 
batches and let them rest for a few days.  One batch was much like other 
central American coffees I had tasted - on the chocolate side with a 
slight fruit.  I roasted this batch and finished it off.  Another batch 
was an off white bean that I soon learned was Monsooned - a fruity 
flavor - very different but drinkable.  The third batch roasted to 
different shades indicating a blend.  The result was a brew that I could 
not drink - kind of a sour fruit  - I had to pour it out.  Yuk!
One month later I brewed some of the monsooned beans.  I has matured 
into a fine cup.  More chocolate and fruit.  I brewed a pot of the 
blended beans this morning and they are wonderful.  The fruit flavors 
now have mellowed to a nice brew.  Not a hint a chocolate - just sweet 
fruit.  Wow!
I  thought the resting period would be much less than a month. How much 
longer can it go?  How long have you rested with success?  It seems like 
we all can't wait to grind those beans to taste that cup.
Larry
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23) From: Bob Glasscock
Good morning all,
Question about resting. Once roast has cooled, does resting need to be done
in air-tight environment, or do the beans need to offgas in the open air for
a time? I just started using a vacuum "seal-a-meal" device that removes air
from specially designed canister. My question is, does it hurt the newly
roasted beans to vac right after cooling?
Sunday AM Cup Hawaii Kona Purple Mountain C+ in Yama VP/Cory glass rod.
Bob and Ellen Glasscock
148 Woodland Court
Greenville, AL 36037
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24) From: Brian Kamnetz
Bob,
You will likely get a range of responses to this question, but I think
most will agree that it is undesirable to seal the bean for a day or
so, because doing so seems to blunt the flavors. After that, some
people will likely say that if you consume the roasted beans within 9
days or so, it is fine to leave them in open air. Others will say that
it pays to maintain CO2 in the container in order to force out the O2.
But the consensus answer (at least, as I perceive the responses to
questions similar to yours over the past few years) to your actual
question seems to be that it is not good to seal the beans for the
first 24 hours.
Brian
On 5/4/08, Bob Glasscock  wrote:
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25) From: John Despres
Brian, do you just drop 'em in an open jar and let them sit that way for 
a day or so? Or do you jut set the lid loosely? I always close the jar 
right away. I suppose closing the jar up right away is stopping the 
degassing - once the pressure builds up inside the jar to some level, 
maybe the degassing stops until that pressure is released. I really 
haven't noticed any adverse effects on the flavors, but this method may 
improve flavors... Hmmm.
I'll try it next - but doesn't leaving the coffee open and exposed speed 
up the undesirable process of going stale?
John
Brian Kamnetz wrote:
<Snip>
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26) From: Brian Kamnetz
John,
I think it was Ed Needham who has reported studying this question,
comparing beans left in open dishes with beans in sealed jars, and his
findings indicated that there is no reason to not simply let roasted
beans sit in an open bowl, as long as they are consumed in around 9
days. IIRC, he also found that beans sealed immediately after roasting
suffered.
I personally subscribe more to the Ray-O method. Immediately after
roasting I pour the beans into a glass jar and loosely put the cover
on, so that any gas produced is able to easily force something (I'm
betting that it is O2) out of the top of the jar, leaving the beans
immersed in CO2. I assume the primary role of the lid is to prevent
stray drafts from wafting the CO2 out of the jar. Later, as I use the
beams, I still do not tightly seal the lid, just turn it on loosely,
and carefully scoop the beans out with a ladle, trying to disturb as
little as possible the CO2 that is hopefully protecting the roasted
beans from O2.
I should hasten to add that I am proceeding solely on the reports,
theory, and hypothesizing passed along by others on this list, and
have not carried out my own experimentation.
Brian
On 5/4/08, John Despres  wrote:
<Snip>
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27) From: Ed Needham
Why, if you are a homeroaster, would you need to roast and seal beans?  I
might understand doing this if you intended to travel for a few weeks away
from good coffee (why go there if there isn't good coffee?) and roasting
equipment, but why not roast, brew, roast, brew, roast, brew?  Your beans
will taste heavenly for at a minimum of a week, and probably be
indistinguishable (for most people) from week old beans at two weeks.
I roast in five pound batches, and coffee is roasted and gone in less than a
week.  I see absolutely no reason to vac seal or prepare for long term
storage within that week.
On the whole, homeroasters tend to go to great extremes to achieve little or
nothing, for the sake of retaining their CSA status.http://home.comcast.net/~mdmint/coffee/csa12steps.htmRoast enough beans for a week.  Store in any respectable container.  Don't
wait for them to age (I mean "rest", excuse me).  Enjoy them at all points
along the staling process.  Use.  Roast again.
Am I missing something here?
*********************
Ed Needham
"to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com*********************

28) From: Ed Needham
What I posted was more of an observation and theory, based on a little bit 
of Googling molecular weights and making assumptions, since CO2 atomic 
weight was heavier at 44 and O2 was 32.
A mason jar with a loose lid 'might' allow CO2 degassing to push out the O2, 
as it does when brewing beer.  A sealed lid would seal in the oxygen and 
'might' tend to stale coffee faster.
All of this is a moot point though for most homeroasters, who use their 
beans in a very short time and really don't let coffee stale to the point of 
taking on bad tastes.  At least I hope homeroasters don't settle for stale, 
rancid coffee.
It's a fact that roasted beans put off quite a bit of CO2 as they stale. 
The 'big five' supermarket-preground roasters grind and stale their beans 
for up to six months to keep them from puffing up their pretty bags on the 
supermarket shelf.  It really doesn't matter with the level of coffee they 
are selling.  Bad will be bad whether fresh or stale.  With homeroast, it's 
another issue altogether.  There are very elusive and volatile flavors and 
aromas that disappear within a few days of roasting.  Some don't like these, 
and must 'rest' the beans until they dissipate.  I tend to crave these 
flavors and smells, and find coffee becoming less desirable after only a few 
days.  It is not bad at that point, and it is still 'very' fresh, but 
something has gone away.
It's all about personal tastes though, so who am I to require everyone to 
brew and drink coffee the way I do?
Go, roast, brew, drink!
*********************
Ed Needham
"to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com*********************

29) From: Jesse Van Der Molen
I read that one ought to let the beans sit, unsealed, for 12+ hours before sealing in a jar. I have done that with two different 1/2 lb. batches and found them to be quite stale, even on the first brew.
Jesse
Brian Kamnetz  wrote: John,
I think it was Ed Needham who has reported studying this question,
comparing beans left in open dishes with beans in sealed jars, and his
findings indicated that there is no reason to not simply let roasted
beans sit in an open bowl, as long as they are consumed in around 9
days. IIRC, he also found that beans sealed immediately after roasting
suffered.
I personally subscribe more to the Ray-O method. Immediately after
roasting I pour the beans into a glass jar and loosely put the cover
on, so that any gas produced is able to easily force something (I'm
betting that it is O2) out of the top of the jar, leaving the beans
immersed in CO2. I assume the primary role of the lid is to prevent
stray drafts from wafting the CO2 out of the jar. Later, as I use the
beams, I still do not tightly seal the lid, just turn it on loosely,
and carefully scoop the beans out with a ladle, trying to disturb as
little as possible the CO2 that is hopefully protecting the roasted
beans from O2.
I should hasten to add that I am proceeding solely on the reports,
theory, and hypothesizing passed along by others on this list, and
have not carried out my own experimentation.
Brian
On 5/4/08, John Despres  wrote:
<Snip>
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30) From: Paul Helbert
If we had a "Sticky"  or FAQ on this list I'd nominate this post of
Ed's to top the list.
On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 12:21 PM, Ed Needham  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Paul Helbert
Prepackaged, roasted & ground coffee,,,
Some of the worst ideas since sliced bread.
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31) From: John Despres
All good points, Ed. No argument from me. I'll give it the loose lid 
try. Thanks for sharing!
John
Ed Needham wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
John A C Despres
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616.437.9182
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32) From: Dean De Crisce
I have de gassed in an open mason jar overnight then closed the canister. I have closed the cannister right after cooling. I have also used a seal-a-meal bag. I have not appreciated any different in taste. The bag of course inflates somewhat overnight.
My standard practice is to degass for 4-8 hours and then close. This is based upon recommendation.
Dean De Crisce
Sent from a Treo.

33) From: Bob Glasscock
To all who responded, thanks.
I'm embarrassed to admit that I have been going from the colander directly
to locking containers and just recently to Foodsaver containers that allow
you to vacuum seal, thinking that "air is the enemy." Now I see that Pogo
was right when he said "I have seen the enemy, and it are us." I will repent
and let the air in.
Bob G.
Bob and Ellen Glasscock
148 Woodland Court
Greenville, AL 36037
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34) From: miKe mcKoffee
Repent or not, now my turn to chime in. I'll continuing vac' sealing mason
jars-o-beans directly after roast cooling as have been doing for over 7
years home roasting. Served many a visitng coffee fiend many a time with
nada but good reports on the cups from vac storage method, including Tom.
mcKona Koffee will also continue to vacuum evacuate valve bags after heat
sealing.
Pacific Northwest Gathering VIhttp://www.mcKonaKoffee.comURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must">http://home.comcast.net/~mckona/PNWGVI.htmKona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffeehttp://www.mcKonaKoffee.comURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
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35) From: Rick Copple
Bob Glasscock wrote:
<Snip>
Don't know you need to let the air in, you just need to ensure it can 
get out. :)
When I started, using Tom's suggestions on his site, I used a few mason 
jars. For the first few hours after roasting, I would leave the lids on 
but not tightened down, to allow the degassing to happen. Then, at some 
point after four hours (the minimum to degas off the immediate sharp 
taste for most coffee) I would seal the jar shut.
But after a couple months of that, I switched to using the plastic 
degassing gift bags to store coffee in, so I didn't have to remember to 
do that. I can dump the beans in there and the degassing happens 
automatically, and no O2 will get in to stale them.
But like Ed, I only roast enough for a week (2 pounds for me, being the 
only coffee drinker though my son and daughter will occasionally get a 
cup). There is little reason to vac seal roasted beans unless you need 
to store them for long periods of time. But you definitely wouldn't want 
to vac seal in the gas that needs to escape right after roasting, I 
would think that would affect the flavor of the beans.
-- 
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36) From: miKe mcKoffee
<Snip>
 But you definitely 
<Snip>
Why? You "think" the beans under vacuum will not degas CO2? Contrare.
Affecting the flavor wise sure it would affect the flavor, but not
necessarily negatively IMO. Affect as in basically slowing the staling
process. Have said many times (even earlier today) have served vac'd right
after cooling beans many times over the years to many very picky Listers
including Tom, always with favorable results.
I do agree vacuum sealing not mandatory or even "very" beneficial when
roasts consumed within a week. But start using the beans after 4 or 5 days
development rest and then consume them for a week or two and definitely
beneficial IMO. 
Pacific Northwest Gathering VIhttp://www.mcKonaKoffee.comURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must">http://home.comcast.net/~mckona/PNWGVI.htmKona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffeehttp://www.mcKonaKoffee.comURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
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37) From: Ed Needham
I can't see that it would hurt it a bit to vac seal.  I'm just saying that 
if someone is homeroasting at least once a week, then it's likely 
unnecessary.
We coffee folk are funny about our brew.
*********************
Ed Needham
"to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com*********************

38) From: Rick Copple
miKe mcKoffee wrote:
<Snip>
You may be correct, and I've not tested it. I think someone else had 
mentioned that their test had a negative effect, can't recall who 
without tracking it down.
But, my impression both by what I've read on Tom's site and other 
places, that the first four hours at least you need to have the gas escape.
But of course, since the beans are degassing, you can't really vac seal 
them, since they will still build up pressure and pillow out. Seems that 
gas needs somewhere to go, or it could burst a seam eventually, but you 
can't make it a vacuum environment, really. Not sure what one would 
accomplish with it opposed to just using a degassing bag or mason jars. 
Either method will effectively keep the beans away from the O2. Just vac 
sealing would trap all that gas inside and not let it escape, which I 
think would affect the flavor, potentially negatively if it keeps the 
flavors you want to degas out trapped in and around the beans.
But, like I said, I've not personally tested it (have no reason to do 
so, really) and so I'll defer to your experience on it. So, I guess you 
are saying, that fresh roasted, sharp edge will disappear even if you 
vac seal it all in there and don't let the gas escape? Seems like that 
would at least make it take longer than four hours to get the 
just-roasted edge off. Don't know I want it to take longer to get to 
that stage.
-- 
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39) From: RK
snip: Ed Needham
<Snip>
aromas that disappear within a few days of roasting.  Some don't like these,
and must 'rest' the beans until they dissipate.  I tend to crave these
flavors and smells, and find coffee becoming less desirable after only a few
days.  It is not bad at that point, and it is still 'very' fresh, but
something has gone away.
I like to try a roast from out of the drum and each day thereafter, and find
some are very good right after a roast and then lose it for a day or two and
rebound after 3 to 4 days developing body and unique flavors that were not
there after a day but were there out of the drum, I'm not sure why this
happens but it does, I store my roast in either valve bags or regular brown
coffee bags. If I roast a lot that is not going to be consumed in a week I
use a valve bag and freeze them in a 0 degree freezer after 48 hrs. rest.
Everyone is different on there methods, I suggest you try several and see
which ones work for you.
RK
<Snip>
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40) From: Ed Needham
The initial vac sealing would at least remove much of the oxygen, which we 
know has a staling/oxidizing effect on the beans.  Some say the CO2, when 
left on the beans has a negative effect also.  I have no evidence of that 
and have not seen any bad effect from CO2 as a preservative.
Now here's another thought...
As a homebrewer, I am keenly aware of the effect that sunlight can have on 
beer.  In a very brief time, sunlight can skunk good beer.  Bottlers that 
use clear or green bottles are not protected from this skunking effect, but 
brown bottles filter the harmful light and minimize the effect.
I wonder if sunlight might negatively affect coffee beans.  Anyone have a 
clear jar and a brown jar and a windowsill?
*********************
Ed Needham
"to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com*********************

41) From: Ed Needham
I agree completely.  Your description is exactly my experience also.
*********************
Ed Needham
"to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com*********************

42) From: Paul Helbert
Not at all absurd. I've never seen a brown Mason jar (green, yes)
maybe just not paying attention; but I have paint. One experiment
coming up.
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 10:52 AM, Ed Needham  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Paul Helbert
Prepackaged, roasted & ground coffee,,,
Some of the worst ideas since sliced bread.
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43) From: Bill
Had always heard that the stalers of coffee are: oxygen, water, and light.
 Excited to hear about the results of this experiment...
I keep my beans in a dark cupboard.  I roast for a friend who leaves them by
the coffee pot in the kitchen lights.  Anyone know if artificial light is
said to be a staling factor as well?
bill in wyo
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 8:52 AM, Ed Needham  wrote:
<Snip>
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44) From: Floyd Lozano
What about another staler - time!   Someone can test this by keeping
coffee in a maintained vacuum environment with no light - see if the
coffee cups as well in a month or two with identically roasted coffee
(will require vacuum environment and very good profile control)
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 11:18 AM, Bill  wrote:
<Snip>
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45) From: Ed Needham
Not to nit pick, but can you describe the 'stale' flavor?

46) From: Paul Helbert
 This morning I painted a Mason Jelly Jar flat black on the outside.
Now before I roast something and begin, I need to figure how to
control the temperature in the two jars. The black one will surely
heat up...so maybe I need to over paint white or aluminum. Just used
the first thing that came to hand. The clear jar will also make a
greenhouse heat trap if left in the sun with dark brown coffee beans
in it. Need to get the temp control idea worked out before starting or
we have too many variables.
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 1:32 PM, Floyd Lozano  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Paul Helbert
Prepackaged, roasted & ground coffee,,,
Some of the worst ideas since sliced bread.
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47) From: Alex Fitch
why not put them in a controlled area out of direct sun light. Then  
the jar color and green house effect should be minimal.
------------------------------
Alex Fitch
Alex
On May 5, 2008, at 4:34 PM, Paul Helbert wrote:
<Snip>
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48) From: Paul Helbert
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 4:56 PM, Alex Fitch  wrote:
<Snip>
Why not? Because we are trying to assess the deleterious effect of
sunlight on the coffee. At least (without looking back) that's where I
thought this started.
-- 
Paul Helbert
Prepackaged, roasted & ground coffee,,,
Some of the worst ideas since sliced bread.
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49) From: sci
Here's a very easy and successful resting technique that has lots of
versatility. I've got lots of homemade storage solutions (jars and airtight
containers with valves and pump gadgets, but this one is just the best I've
found.)
I use Vacu Seal bags and put a rock-hard vacuum on those beans while they
are still warmish from roasting. Since it is a bag, the bag conforms to the
beans and doesn't leave a big empty space in the container like a jar. The
O2 is virtually gone from the git-go. The sealed bag will slightly inflate
from degassing. I can leave them this way as long as I like, or pull another
hard vacuum at any point, removing even the CO2 and the minute amount of O2.
After opening the bag to use the beans, simply pull another hard vacuum on
them to evacuate the O2. Presto! Virtually O2 free vacuum storage. If I have
a really expensive bean that I want to use beyond a 10 days, I flush the bag
with a puff or two of canned nitrogen, an inert gas like CO2. But for
ordinary beans that I'm using within a 5 day window, the normal vacuum works
like a charm. It only takes about 5 seconds to seal and vacuum the bag. I
have a handful of bags that are over 6 months old. They are very tough,
inexpensive, and I highly recommend them. They come in 1qt. and 1gal. size.
FWIW,
Ivan
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50) From: Dean De Crisce
I see that some of my posts show up days later???
Dean De Crisce
Sent from a Treo phone.

51) From: Paul Helbert
The sunlight / no sunlight experiment is going to have to wait until
the weekend. Sorry, but my son just called to see if I could join him
(and his French Broad River staff) canoing on the New River Gorge
tomorrow and camp out with them tomorrow night. That's an offer I
shall not refuse. So, this evening I had to roast a pound for camping
and half a pound for my wife to use in a silent auction for the
teacher's association Wednesday evening. Gotta get going extra early
to double up farm chores, pack and get things lined up to be gone
overnight.
Allon, I hope to blow through here, change vehicles and still make the
pick up Wednesday evening.
All y'all carry on without me. See you on the river!
-- 
Paul Helbert
Prepackaged, roasted & ground coffee,,,
Some of the worst ideas since sliced bread.
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52) From: John Despres
Keep the water beneath you, Paul. Have fun!
John
Paul Helbert wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
John A C Despres
Hug your kids
616.437.9182
Scene It All Productions 
JD's Coffee Provoked Ramblings
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53) From: Jeff Jones
What type of bag are you using and what do you use for the vacuum?
-jrj
sci wrote:
<Snip>
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54) From: Jesse Van Der Molen
The spice was gone out of the Ethiopia. The sweet was
gone from the Kenya. It tasted like the last 5 pounds
of a 10 pound bag of starbucks house blend that I
bought once at Sam's Club!
--- Ed Needham  wrote:
<Snip>http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20<Snip>">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.com<Snip>http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20<Snip>
Jesse T. Van Der Molen
"As virtue increases, so does the temptation to Pride"
Lewis, the Pilgrim's Regress
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJHomeroast mailing list
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55) From: miKe mcKoffee
The List has been known to take naps and "rest" now and then for years...
<Snip>
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56) From: Alex Fitch
Same here. My post show up, up to three days later.
------------------------------
Alex Fitch
Alex
On May 5, 2008, at 9:28 PM, Dean De Crisce wrote:
<Snip>
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57) From: sci
Jeff,http://www.vacu-seal.com/I purchase mine at Bed, Bath, and Beyond. $5 for 7 qt bags. Note: I don't
recommend that you get the little handheld vacuum pump. It is a total waste
of $$ at $30. You can simply put your lips on the little valve and draw a
tighter vacuum than the little pump. And your lips are faster anyway  (as
long as you are a good kisser) ;~) and don't need batteries.
Ivan
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Date: Mon, 05 May 2008 23:11:45 -0500
From: Jeff Jones 
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] Resting
To: homeroast
Message-ID: <481FDA81.1060001>
Content-Type: text/plain; charsetO-8859-1; format=flowed
What type of bag are you using and what do you use for the vacuum?
-jrj
sci wrote:
<Snip>
airtight
<Snip>
I've
<Snip>
the
<Snip>
another
<Snip>
O2.
<Snip>
have
<Snip>
bag
<Snip>
works
<Snip>
size.
<Snip>http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20<Snip>">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.com<Snip>http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20<Snip>
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