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Topic: 1st v. 2nd crack (18 msgs / 724 lines)
1) From: Chris McAvoy
Hi All,
Another newbie question, should there be a pause between first and
second crack?  Or do they blend together?
Thanks,
Chris

2) From: Pecan Jim Gundlach
On Aug 19, 2005, at 10:56 AM, Chris McAvoy wrote:
<Snip>
Chris,
     It varies by coffee and roasting method.  Some coffees have more  
distinct cracks clearly separated in other they blend together.  I  
used to post when a new offering shows pronounced and distinct cracks  
so new roasters can develop their sense of standards.  None of my  
recent roasts have been particularly vocal.
       Jim Gundlach
"The espresso machine is an accessory to the grinder, not the other  
way around."

3) From: tom ulmer
Hello Chris-
Simply put yes - there should be a pause between the first and the second
crack for the best flavor profile in my opinion.
The first and second can run together depending on how much heat you apply
and the type of bean.
How are you roasting your beans presently?

4) From: Chris McAvoy
<Snip>
With a whirley pop. 
I think my cracks are running together, or else I'm dumping the beans
well before second crack. I _think_ I've noticed a difference in the
crack sounds, and the beans are well roasted, probably close to vienna
(13 on this scale:http://www.sweetmarias.com/roasting-VisualGuideV2.html).So I'm assuming I am into second crack, but wasn't sure if I was
totally misinterpreting the sound.
Chris
On 8/19/05, tom ulmer  wrote:
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y
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ribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>

5) From: Terry Stockdale
At 10:56 AM 8/19/2005, you wrote:
<Snip>
I've seen it both ways.  Normally there is a pause.  However, if I've found 
that if I roast more slowly, the break between 1st and 2nd doesn't occur or 
even overlaps.
I had that problem recently when my thermocouple (not the digital 
thermometer itself but the thermocouple's insulation) died from running it 
into and out of some copper tubing too many times.  The copper tubing is to 
positions the thermocouple bead in my gas grill / RK drum roaster ( http://www.terrystockdale.com/coffee/rkdrum_roaster.shtml-- I need to 
update the picture, though). This particular thermocouple originally had 
been snaked into the tumbling beans of my former Hottop, so it was well-cooked.
If you find that you've lost the break between 1st and 2nd crack, you have 
a choice:
1)  If you like it, then you have developed a technique for one-roast 
"melange" blend, where some beans are at 1st crack stage and other beans 
are in 2nd, or
2) if you don't like it, you can decide to apply more heat next time.
No matter which choice you pick, your story can be "I was shooting for a 
melange blend...".
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
--
Terry Stockdale -- Baton Rouge, LA
My blog: http://www.TerryStockdale.comMy weekly newsletter:  http://www.TerrysComputerTips.com">http://www.TheNextWindow.comMy main website:http://www.TerryStockdale.comMy weekly newsletter:  http://www.TerrysComputerTips.com

6) From: Les
If you are roasting too fast, you could be charring the ourside without 
fulling roasting the inside of the bean. You should be roasting from 12-14=
 
minutes with a whirley pop. to get to second crack. (and that is as fast as=
 
I would go) I would suggest you turn your heat down once first crack starts=
. 
You have a lot of stored heat in the roaster and beans so your temp isn't=
 
going to drop like a rock. If you are using electric heat it is going to 
drop even slower. The roast will continue. I personally like 4-6 minutes 
between 1st and 2nd crack. I think it brings on more flavor development. 
When we were at Stumptown the roaster went well over 10 minutes between 
cracks. I think Charlie timed it at a full 14 minutes! I try to get to 1st=
 
crack at about 10 minutes. Most beans I take into a couple of snaps of 
second.
 Les
 On 8/19/05, Chris McAvoy  wrote: 
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y
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7) From: Edward Spiegel
At 10:56 AM -0500 8/19/05, Chris McAvoy wrote:
<Snip>
If the two run together, you are probably roasting too hot. How quickly to you get to first crack?
I recommend roasting at least one batch of cheap beans until they are charred so that you can observe all of the sounds -- that will give you a good sense of what the cracks and smells are like -- and there won't be any doubt about whether you got to second. I did several roasts wondering the same thing and when I did my char-roast I realized that I hadn't really known what second sounds like.
Just my .02,
Edward

8) From: tom ulmer
A couple of thoughts along the whirly-pop lines for you...
First you need to use some type of diffuser to assure that you're getting
even heating and don't have any hot spots.
Additionally, at the initial first cracks, grab a cup towel and the
whirly-pop handle and give the beans inside a good swirl. Continue doing
this, gradually increasing the heat (by taking the whirly-pop off your heat
source, swirling, and then replacing) and you will get a good distinction
between first and second crack.
admin] On Behalf Of Chris McAvoy
Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 12:16 PM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +1st v. 2nd crack
<Snip>
With a whirley pop. 
I think my cracks are running together, or else I'm dumping the beans
well before second crack. I _think_ I've noticed a difference in the
crack sounds, and the beans are well roasted, probably close to vienna
(13 on this scale:http://www.sweetmarias.com/roasting-VisualGuideV2.html).So I'm assuming I am into second crack, but wasn't sure if I was
totally misinterpreting the sound.
Chris
On 8/19/05, tom ulmer  wrote:
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9) From: Marc
Finally, a reason to buy a pound of 'UGH!' from SM.
-Marc
On 8/19/05, Edward Spiegel  wrote:
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o you get to first crack?
<Snip>
rred so that you can observe all of the sounds -- that will give you a good=
 sense of what the cracks and smells are like -- and there won't be any dou=
bt about whether you got to second. I did several roasts wondering the same=
 thing and when I did my char-roast I realized that I hadn't really known w=
hat second sounds like.
<Snip>
ribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>

10) From: Jeffrey Bair
I'm glad Chris raised this question - I'm a newbie, too, and having the sam=
e 
concern.
 I'm roasting in a hot air popper. My first crack starts with a few random=
 
snaps here and there, then takes off like crazy. I've tried to wait for it=
 
to stop but each time the beans get dark, dark, dark and it still cracking=
 
and popping like crazy.
 The results have been acceptable, although not stellar. It sounds like I=
 
need to try Edward's idea and roast all the way to ash to see what happens.=
 
I'm already using cheaper beans since this is my first foray into roasting.
 Is it possible that the heat in the popper is too high and roasting the 
outside too deeply through first crack? I'm using a toastmaster popper that=
 
I just picked up at Target for $8 on sale. It's got the side vents as 
recommended. I've found about 1/2 cup (3 oz) of green beans to be just the=
 
right amount to avoid too many jumping out. Typically the first crack start=
s 
around 2 minutes and I'm pulling them out between 5 and 5 1/2 minutes and=
 
they're Vienna roast easily, perhaps a bit darker, according to the link 
Chris posted above.
 TIA -
 Jeff
 On 8/19/05, Edward Spiegel  wrote: 
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11) From: Michael Wascher
Jeff,
Another newbie hot air popper here.
I'm getting results similar to what you are describing. I've yet to get a=
 
real distinct break between 1st & 2nd crack.
I've tried waiting longer and I get beans that are roasted darker than I 
really want. They're not bad, but too dark.
I've reduced the amount of beans to reduce the heat & extend the roast. The=
n 
I do get some seperation between 1st & 2nd however the roast never complete=
s 
satisfactorily. The beans seem underdone: the outside looks good, they tast=
e 
green & grassy, and there is no substantial increase in bean volume.
Anybody have tips for achieving a happy median? And I'd rather not go to th=
e 
PID controller, PC logging, etc solution ... that's too much like my day 
job!
--MikeW
On 8/19/05, Jeffrey Bair  wrote:
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are countable". Albert Einstein

12) From: Edward Spiegel
Hi,
Take a look at:http://www.edwardspiegel.org/coffee/roastingwithpoppers.htmIt provides some tips and a method for "calibrating" your popper.
Best,
Edward
At 1:27 PM -0500 8/19/05, Jeffrey Bair wrote:
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13) From: Jeffrey Bair
Wow - this is fantastic, Edward. A million thank you's for taking the time=
 
to summarize your results for the rest of us to learn from.
I just did two small batches following your suggestions - less beans and 
tilting the popper through first crack - and I'm happy to report that I got=
 
my first distinct separation between first and second crack!
Overall I roasted them close to two minutes longer than previous batches bu=
t 
with much lighter results. I guarantee my wife and I won't be able to wait=
 
until tomorrow to try them - we'll be grinding some in a couple of hours 
after dinner!
Thanks!
Jeff
On 8/19/05, Edward Spiegel  wrote:
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14) From: R.N.Kyle
Les I know you have been experimenting with various profiles with longer =
spans between first and second crack. I shoot for 4 to 5 min from the =
beginning of first to the end of my roast, which usually is 30 sec to 1 =
min. into 2nd crack. It takes a bit of practice in lowering the heat =
after first starts to get this span, and various beans roast different, =
but that why a roasting log is important if you want to duplicate a =
roast.
Wow 14 min between 1st and 2nd. does this mean after 1st has stopped =
then time to the start of 2nd.?
I have a hard time believing that the beans do not end up baked instead =
of roasted.
RK

15) From: Edward Spiegel
At 7:13 PM -0500 8/19/05, Jeffrey Bair wrote:
<Snip>
Glad to hear that the page was helpful. Keep us posted with your results.
Best,
Edward

16) From: Edward Spiegel
<Snip>
Hi,
I just realized that there is a better URL to use. It has links to a few more pages that might be of interest:http://www.edwardspiegel.org/coffee/Best,
Edward

17) From: Les
Ron,
Some times! How is that for an answer. I have discovered (My temp point) if=
 
I hold the temp at 440 I can hold off 2nd crack for up to 12 minutes (Total=
 
time for that roast was 23.5 minutes.) Now back to your question in earnest=
. 
No, I begin the time from when first crack is going full tilt. This is when=
 
I back off the temp and coast for 2nd crack. If I have not hit 2nd in 6 
minutes, I only need to raise the temp by 20 degrees to get it started in 3=
0 
seconds or less. From my log, I see no reason on an RK to go more than 6 
minutes from a roaring 1st crack to 2nd crack. I do think it bakes the 
beans. When going for a darker roast, I shoot for a 3-4 minutes pause and I=
 
always back my heat off going through first.
 Les
 On 8/19/05, R.N.Kyle  wrote: 
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18) From: R.N.Kyle
Thanks for explanation Les, I'm going to experiment with this theory and =
see what difference it makes in the cup. I start my timing just as first =
get going good to the end of the roast I have not really timed the span =
between when 1st. stops and 2nd starts. just timing from a good start of =
first to the desired finish.
RK


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