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Topic: New Thread 2nd Crack - internal bean (14 msgs / 308 lines)
1) From: Steve
I'm like John, I've got to have 2nd crack, about level 4 on those pics.
But it's been mentioned that  the internal bean is what matters. I believe
this is true. I have noticed something during the grind that is has become
a tell tale sign for me as to whether or not it is going to be a good
tasting brew. When I grind the beans if it is nice and dark and 'heavy' I
will have a great brew. However, if it is light in color at all OR if there
are any light (in weight) pieces like chaff that stick to the clear top on
the grinder (I am currently using a whirly grinder, Solis is on the way)
then it will be a light, almost tea like, brew - which I do not like.
I am curious about all of your thoughts and experiences with this.
steve
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2) From: Ryuji Suzuki -- JF7WEX
From: "Steve" 
Subject: +New Thread 2nd Crack - internal bean
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 07:41:47 -0700
<Snip>
I think so. Just after the roasting is done, I pick a few beans and
try to break them between my fingers. Well roasted (at least past
first crack) coffee will snap easily, and the color inside is very
similar to outside. If I try to roast too quickly, even if the outside
is dark, inside may not be as solid colored, and may be lighter than
outside. I don't like beans with even a tiny unroasted part because in
my few experiments (not one or two but not as many as thirty
experiments) they taste beany, tasting as if I mixed unroasted lentil
bean ground up and mixed with coffee.
--
Ryuji Suzuki
"I can't believe I'm here.
People always say that I'm a long way from normal."
(Bob Dylan, Normal, Illinois, 13 February 1999)
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3) From: John Blumel
On Fri, 29 Jun 2001 12:46:44 -0400, Ryuji Suzuki -- JF7WEX wrote:
<Snip>
Ryuji,
These experiments have gone too far. It's a waste of good coffee to mix
lentil bean grounds with it. There are some things it's better not to
know.
That said, what technique do you use to roast your lentils? The Alp is
surely out of the question and even the HWP would, I think, be
problematic. I suppose a popcorn popper might work as long as the holes
aren't on the bottom.
John Blumel
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4) From: Ryuji Suzuki -- JF7WEX
From: "John Blumel" 
Subject: Re: +New Thread 2nd Crack - internal bean
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 12:13:05 -0500
<Snip>
No, I didn't say that I roasted lentil and mixed it with coffee for
reference. I just meant that the coffee that was not fully roasted
tasted so bad, and my conjecture is that beans containing even a small
portion of underroasted part is probably responsible for the beany
flavor.
<Snip>
I didn't roast, but why do you want to know how I would? If I really
wanted, I could do it in my oven, I guess.
--
Ryuji Suzuki
"I can't believe I'm here.
People always say that I'm a long way from normal."
(Bob Dylan, Normal, Illinois, 13 February 1999)
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5) From: John Blumel
On Fri, 29 Jun 2001 15:43:14 -0400, Ryuji Suzuki -- JF7WEX wrote:
<Snip>
Actually, I was only joking.
John "Feeling a bit punchy from too much work and not enough sleep or
coffee." Blumel
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6) From: Ryuji Suzuki -- JF7WEX
From: "John Blumel" 
Subject: Re: +New Thread 2nd Crack - internal bean
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 15:11:51 -0500
<Snip>
Please, when my head is in research mode, I can't take jokes.
--
Ryuji Suzuki
"I can't believe I'm here.
People always say that I'm a long way from normal."
(Bob Dylan, Normal, Illinois, 13 February 1999)
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7) From: John Blumel
On Fri, 29 Jun 2001 16:32:39 -0400, Ryuji Suzuki -- JF7WEX wrote:
<Snip>
Much as I suspected. :>
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8) From: Ryuji Suzuki -- JF7WEX
From: "John Blumel" 
Subject: Re: +New Thread 2nd Crack - internal bean
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 12:13:05 -0500
<Snip>
Before you accuse me for wasting anything, look at the flavored
coffee sold at supermarkets. I don't know if they are good coffee or
not but aren't they waste???
<Snip>
Actually, lentil wasn't successful but try this:
RS's ultimate Italian espressio blend:
Brazil Santos, a minute into second crack or slightly darker 50%
Sumatra DP, same roast 30%
Harar, just at the beginning of second crack, 15%
fennel seed, 1 teaspoon
pine nuts, 2 tablespoon
   - toasted on a pan with optional minimum olive oil
thyme, ground, 1/4 teaspoon
celery seed, ground separately and added later, 1/4 teaspoon
to make total coffee of approximately 454 grams.
Original recipe from deep space, courtesy of SETI Institute.
The original recipe was in totally different unit system.
The estimated time of transmission of the recipe: 5500 years ago.
Hope this is closer to expected response...
--
Ryuji Suzuki
"I can't believe I'm here.
People always say that I'm a long way from normal."
(Bob Dylan, Normal, Illinois, 13 February 1999)
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9) From: Gary Zimmerman
 
Steve wrote:
<Snip>
For coffees I like roasted lightly, like the Maui Moka, I tend to 
"compensate" for the lighter roast by brewing stronger - using more coffee 
than I typically do.  As I've said (probably many times) before, if I brew 
too strongly, I can always add some hot water and dilute to taste, but if I 
brew too weakly, it's a wasted pot.
-- garyZ
Whirley-drip(paper)-black
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10) From: Jack Stafford
You guys gota quit putting Ryuji into the search mode, he's about to blow a
fuse!

11) From: Jack Stafford
I warned you... see he's blown that fuse

12) From: John Blumel
On 6/29/01 4:29 PM, Ryuji Suzuki -- JF7WEX wrote:
<Snip>
Actually, I've known several people who go into research mode and have 
learned to recognize the warning signs. The original response was not 
entirely unexpected. :)
John Blumel
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13) From: Steve
Gary,
That's an interesting concept. What exactly would you be compensating? Isn't
it essentially more of the same taste? So far, with the beans that I have
used, I just don't like anything before 2nd crack. So would I like it even
worse if it were stronger?
I agree about the wasted pot when it's too weak but I have also thrown out
pots that were under roasted.
steve

14) From: Gary Zimmerman
 
<Snip>
The lighter roasts have a lighter, more delicate(?) flavor.  More "roasty" 
to my tastes, and when brewed using  the same amount of grounds as darker 
roasts, seem to give less intense of a flavor, than darker beans at similar 
strength.
I didn't used to think I would like lighter roasts either, until I roasted 
the Maui Moka beans very light on Tom's recommendation.  I expected a sour, 
under roasted or baked tasting brew.  But to my surprise and pleasure, the 
light roast (around Agtron number 55, eyeballing by the plates in Ken 
Davids' book) tasted very yummy.  Very different from a dark, 
post-second-crack roast.  Almost a different drink.  And, amazingly to me, 
no sourness at all.  This taste leant itself to a stronger brew than usual, 
I found.  Brewed at the same concentration as the darker roasts, this 
coffee also tasted "too weak" to me, albeit still nice flavor-wise.
<Snip>
Yes, exactly!...but that taste is a lighter one, so can be brewed slightly 
stronger.  Not a whole lot stronger;  just a half a coffee measure for me, 
which I guess would be about 20% more coffee.
<Snip>
I think it depends on the beans, as well as on your tastes.  Some beans 
when roasted lightly just don't taste particularly good.  That's why Tom 
gives recommendations for roast degree for each of the varieties he sells.
I don't "cup", but at one commercial roaster I visited, they told me they 
always roast light - just to or just past first crack, because that allows 
them to taste all the varietally distinct flavors, as well as any off 
tastes that the beans might have - off tastes that would be cooked out at a 
darker roast (ergo, a lot of trendy coffee shops tend to roast their beans 
dark).
Also several folks on this list have noted that their coffee tastes have 
progressed as they've been home roasting to favor roasts that are lighter 
than when they started.  Perhaps when they started, they aimed for what 
they were used to, from having bought pre-roasted beans at specialty shops 
- usually roasted dark or too dark.  Sometimes roasted dark to cover bad 
flavors or extend shelf-life (since some folks have grown to equate stale 
dark roast coffee with "good" coffee).
<Snip>
Ouch - if under roasted, you'd have to toss out the whole batch of beans, 
not just the pot.  But "under" roasted is different than "light" roasted, 
and depends on the beans and your personal tastes.  Some beans just can't 
take a light roast.  They DO taste sour.  Others have a stronger fruitiness 
or varietal flavors you might just not like.
And it takes some discipline too... the first time I pulled of my Maui 
beans immediately after first crack, it was very hard for me to do.  Those 
things were so light I was sure I'd have to toss them, but I was really 
pleasantly surprised.  You can't compare them to darker-roasted beans - 
it's a very different drink and different experience, but not unpleasant if 
you use the right beans and keep an open mind.
... OTOH, you may just NOT LIKE light roasts, and that's certainly your 
prerogative!
  :-)
-- garyZ
Whirley-drip(paper)-black
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