Please forgive me, but I do not understand the need for a trier. Just from my experience, having never watched anyone else roast, it seems like the beans roast along just fine for the first 10 minutes or so, then towards the end of the roast, in the last few minutes, the degree of roast changes very quickly, just a few seconds between city and full city for example. The roast finishes so quickly that I myself would not be able to sample any with a trier without it going on to the next stage of development. What am I missing here? I can take a few minutes between first and second crack, but I mostly pay attention to thermocouple readings to get my degree of roast. Please help, I am sure there is lots more I need to learn about roasting coffee. PeterZ On the computer today, Here in Danvers, MA
Well - you are right, at the end of the roast you are using a trier quite rapidly to check the degree of roast. But the benefit of a trier is huge - there is nothing like being able to pull out some coffee, really look at it, smell it etc while it is not moving. I have thought that there might be a differnt manifestation of a trier - what if you had a little tube that diverted a sinle stream of coffee from the roaster and passed it in front of the roaster (person) at a slow rate so it could be observed. You could do that even with a roaster like the Alp (totally covered, no peeking) and still knowexactly where the roast was at. Tom <Snip> -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - "Great coffee comes from tiny roasters" Sweet Maria's Home Coffee Roasting - Tom & Maria http://www.sweetmarias.com Thompson Owen george Sweet Maria's Coffee - 1115 21st Street, Oakland, CA 94607 - USA phone/fax: 888 876 5917 - tom
--- Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee wrote: <Snip> Plus-with a trier you can keep samples of beans pulled at different temps to cup later, helping you learn what your favorite roast for a bean looks like when ready, as well as what temp is likely to be showing on your thermometer when it's time to dump and cool the roast.. Charlie (wishing I had a trier) <Snip> <Snip> Oaxaca dreamin' Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
<Snip> HOLY CRAP! I never thought of this! I have a trier on my mini drum, and i use it sort of just to see how the roast is developing...i never thought of keeping a sample from a few different roast levels to be able to taste the differences without roasting multiple samples! BRILLIANT!!!! jason
A coffee roaster in Ohio used to use the trier in the early stages to measure the bean's' specific mass. They took a volume of beans and weighed= them before the roast. As the roast progressed they pulled samples, weighed the same volume. Once= they got close there wasn't time to weigh -- they used sight, smell & sound= to decide when to dump. After the roast was over there was a last weighing. The change in specific= mass was their QA. The owner said it was the best & most precise indication= of degree of roast that they had. --MikeW On 9/13/05, Jason Molinari wrote: <Snip> -- "Not all things that are countable, count, and not all things that count,= are countable". Albert Einstein
Thanks Tom and Charlie! Looks like I need to adapt a trier to my PGR. PeterZ Camping on the ocean in Gloucester, MA. Oaxaca Charlie wrote: <Snip>
<Snip> You're missing a couple of things: In big commercial roasters, the degree of roast changes MUCH more slowly. You've got a lot of mass to heat up, and unless you are supplying HUGE amounts of Btus, that takes time. The other thing is that the speed of change varies, and depends on the temperature differential between the hot and the cool substances. So if your heat source is close to what you want your final bean temperature to be, you will not get a quick change near the end, but rather, a slow change. In fact, I try to set my air inlet temperature to just slightly higher than what I want my final bean temp to finish at. That way, I can hold the beans at the optimum temp for a while, ensuring that they are all heated evenly, and that they are heated to their core to the proper temp. Imagine a worst case scenario, with your air temp VERY high. You will get beans that are like a medium-rare steak, with the outside charred and the inside almost raw.
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Hi David, Thank you very much for your reply. I had thought noticed with a souped up air popper that I was scorching beans, so I controlled it with a variac, but still it was out of control because I could move a thermocouple around in the beans while roasting and get widely varying temperature readings. With my PGR the Turbo Oven sits on top, and I measure the temp at the bottom of the swirling beans, well, below the top anyway. Frankly, I have no idea what the air temp is coming out of the turbo oven, just figured it is high enough above them so scorching is not an issue. Thank you for jolting me into realizing that I really need to check that temp and keep the air just above what I want the final bean temp to be. At last! A reason to PID my PGR! Somehow I wanted to do that, but your suggestion got me thinking about it and motivated.. more to come.... I just HAVE TO keep this roaster whole, so I will build another... bigger... better... prettier ;) The beans do roast very evenly, and the roast is controllable, I mean, I can delay the total time. It is just that I thought I was observing the exothermic part of roasting that was racing through the end. I cut the heat just after first crack, maybe nudge it a bit, and suddenly just before second crack the temperature takes off! Perhaps the heating element is getting much hotter than I want it to be, and that is causing this problem. I usually take a couple of minutes between first crack and second. That just doesn't seem very long. Total roast time is less than 15 minutes. What kind of roaster do you have? PeterZ Still learning about roasting, here in Gloucester and everywhere..... Smile.. David B. Westebbe wrote: <Snip>
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.