HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Roasting Profiles (16 msgs / 605 lines)
1) From: mIke mcKoffee
Hi Greg (cc SM List since seemed highly appropriate), 
First your post came as somewhat humorous or ironic. You sold your HotTop
because lacking profile control and I just recently ordered a HotTop to gain
automated precise profile control! (From Jeffrey, hacked HotTop with his
computer control interface and software;-)
While I haven't used the I-Roast2 it looks to be what the I-Roast1 should
have been. Namely ability to save custom profiles after power loss and
decent number of stages. Five stages likely adequate for some fairly complex
and diverse profiles. My understanding is the user interface still sucks
though. (per Tom) But once you memorize the various multi simultaneous
button functions shouldn't be too bad, just not intuitive.
I agree slow green warm-up important, though slow is a relative term since
different roasting methods transfer heat to the beans at different rates.
Generally speaking air roasting transfers heat faster than drum and too slow
flattens the roast. In other words you can't use the same times for an air
roast as for a drum roast and expect the same results. Too slow early stage
can have adverse effects too, just different roast defect than too fast.
That said I've used various early to yellowing stage timings with my Rostos
over the years. For the Rosto I've settled in using high heat and fast ramp
to 225f in 1 minute from cold followed by drastically reducing the heat and
ramp for 2 to 3 min 225f to 300f. Some beans 3min total time to 300f is too
fast yielding a straw or grass taste taint no matter how the rest of the
roast. A particular XF Kona was giving me fits until I lenthened that stage
to 300f to 3:30 min total (2:30 225f to 300f). The past 3 months or so I've
been using that same early stage for all beans with good success. Here's my
current basic for any bean for "coffee" Frankenformer Rosto profile:
Note bean temps measured with analog thermometer in center of bean mass,
slow circular moving beans not upward dancing beans like typical air
roaster.
225f @ 1min
260f @ 2min
285f @ 3min
300f @ 3:30 yellowing
400f @ 7:30 (straight 25f per min, tanning around 350f, browning up 350 to
400f)
Start of 1st varies 400 to 410f. 
Start of 1st 20f per min to typical 420f
Then 10f per min ramp 
Typical City+/Light Full city Kona 445f @11min
Typical Indonesians like Sumatra or Sulawesi continue to 450f @ 11:30
picking up the ramp to 20f per min typical FC 455f just touching 2nd 11:45
to 12.
Harder beans tend to start 1st a bit later (410 to 415 rather than 400f) and
all later time temps adjusted accordingly. Some quirky beans like PRYS
really resist the roast and a 460f is more like City+.
My "typical" espresso roast (and Kenya tamer "coffee" roast} is overall
slower profile.
Same 300f @ 3:30 
Followed by 20f per min to 400f @8:30
Then slowed to 10f per min.
Typical 455f FC just touching 2nd 14min
I used to use a lot more and more complex profiles but have either gotten
lazy or complacent or maybe simplifying the profiles is simply working well
in the cup!
Though in my heart I know I'm not necessarily getting the absolute best out
of a particular bean if I don't take the time to try multiple profiles on
each and every different green. I do well remember the Diedrich seminar
profiling papers on how to zero in a roast... I've said it before and I'll
say it again, it's the one area we home roasters routinely roasting dozens
and dozens of different greens are at a disadvantage. Who's going to have
the time to do a dozen or so roasts of EvErY green they roast to really dial
it in?
miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
www.MDMProperties.net
	From: gregdhumphreys [mailto:gregdhumphreys]
	Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 9:42 AM
	To: miKe mcKoffee
	Subject: Roasting Profiles
	
	Hi Mike!
	 
	So are you in Vancouver or off traveling someplace? If not in
Vancouver, I hope you are checking your e-mail from the road.
	 
	OK, I have a question for you, but I want to give you some history
first: My friend that I sold the RK Drum to did a roast in which he
accidentally pulled the beans out too early. So, he put them back in,
roasted them a bit longer, and the result was awesome. When I learned what
he did, I said, "Yes, I've heard of people 'double roasting' with the RK
Drum." Well, he did several other batches, all double roasted, and all of
them except one were really good. The one that I didn't like, although it
was double roasted, he hadn't watched very closley and it heated up way
faster than normal.
	 
	So....I started reading some from Tom on the Sweet Marias site, and
I see that Tom says almost all beans benefit from a slower warm-up time, and
that this is more important than a long pause between first and second
cracks.
	 
	OK, by this time you may be wondering where I'm going with all of
this. Here it goes: I sold the Hottop because it does not allow me enough
control over the roast profile, and I purchased what I felt was the best
commercially available option right now (at a price I can afford, anyway): I
have an I-Roast 2 on the way. Now, here is my question: What roast profile
do you recommend for an island coffee and what do you recommend for a
monsooned malabar coffee?
	 
	Now, I certainly don't have as much control over the roast profile
as you do, but I can set five different stages with the I-Roast 2.
	 
	I know, that was a long e-mail for a simple question, but I felt I
had to let you know why I was asking.
	 
	Greg

2) From: javafool
WOW mike, great to see you finally ordered a real roaster.. ... . LOL. =
If
this thing works the way you described you may have to tell me more =
about
the controls. It sounds very interesting and of all the roasters I have
owned and tried, the standard HotTop has been the best by far this past =
year
and 1/2, nope, over two years now.
Terry

3) From: Les
Congratulations on the new roaster Mike. I am looking forward to your
reports. I am still enjoying my RK drum setup.
 Les
 On 10/26/05, mIke mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>
e
<Snip>
r
<Snip>
o
<Snip>
5
<Snip>
l
<Snip>
s
<Snip>
t
<Snip>
t
<Snip>
:
<Snip>
e
<Snip>

4) From: mIke mcKoffee
Hey Javafool, you dissin' my Frankenformer Rosto roasting!-) Truth be told I
don't really expect "better" roasts per se' or even larger batch sizes
(already routinely do half pounders) but looking for hands off repeatability
and automated convenience. Plus I tend to be a bit of a computer/gadget
type-o-guy and have an old unused PII 300Mhz Laptop laying around just
begging me to hook it up to a coffee roaster. And of course will more easily
be able to experiment with all kinds of profiles with the touch of a few key
strokes. 
You may have missed it posted previously, here's an overview of what
Jeffrey's doing:http://www.pawlan.com/ccr.html'Tain't cheap, but compared to the cost of similar control on a commercial
roaster what Jeffrey is charging is indeed relatively reasonable. ($7500.00
to add computerized profile control to an Ambex for instance. Jeffrey's
charging less than a sixth of that) Of course Debi doesn't know about it
yet... So it could get REALLY expensive!-)
miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
www.MDMProperties.net

5) From: mIke mcKoffee
I'm looking forward to the new coffee roasting toy, I mean tool;-) It'll be
another couple weeks 'till build is complete and I receive it though I
believe. Bummer, but something to look for to!
miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
www.MDMProperties.net
	From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Les
	Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 4:37 PM
	
	Congratulations on the new roaster Mike.  I am looking forward to
your reports.  I am still enjoying my RK drum setup.
	 
	Les

6) From: DJ Garcia
I wanted in on this now but my photographic hobby pegged my cash flow
this year :( :). I'm hoping next year they'll still be around ...
DJ
Back from Navajo Country with lots of pictures ...

7) From: Donna and Mike
This profile from Pat is a gem:
<Snip>
temp button while it is running pretty well match what I've set in the
profile. Yours may run >completely differently.
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
I used it last night after I unboxed my I-Roast2 with these spectacular
results.http://picasaweb.google.com/donna.michael/March2008/photo?authkey=8foXzRa2g68#5176654514010923714Does anyone have an IR2 profile for a decaf? I roasted some Komodo and
couldn't get the oil to start showing.
Thanks.
--
Donna and Mike
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.com

8) From: Brett Mason
If the oil doesn't break the bean surface, it's inside...  more
richness when you see a little less oil...
Brett
On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 6:33 AM, Donna and Mike  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.comHomeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.com

9) From: Allon Stern
On Mar 12, 2008, at 7:50 AM, Brett Mason wrote:
<Snip>
I recommend you get yourself a thermocouple. The numbers programmed  
into the IR2, and read out on its temperature display, are just  
numbers; they may be relative to each other, but have no bearing on  
actual temperature. You won't know what's really going on until you  
get a TC.
I use the profile
320 for 3 minutes
340 for 2 minutes
375 for 2 minutes
390 until EOR
with really good results.I usualy don't hit 1st crack until around 7  
or 8 minutes.
I may fool around with it to extend the the time between 1st and 2nd  
-- after 1st it really picks up when the beans go exothermic. The  
hard part is that exactly WHEN to do this change is highly dependent  
on the bean, and the amount roasted; I wish that you could specify a  
"knee" in your profile based upon temperature, and that it used a  
real TC.
-
allon
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.com

10) From: ddubr75
Hello roasters and? posters,
I did appreciate the trials and studies and will continue to do so, with the Behmor and all the other methods of roasting that have been born by the creative roasters.
I was curious about the Behmor and it's profiles, I am not sure that I begged... but perception and reality are rarely in close proximity. 
I have always found roasting personal, a control and craft phenomenon. If I wanted company I would go down to the local coffee shop and swill the local grind.
I thank you all for your contributions, I feel a trifle put off by the hob snobbery of it all. There are those that are all about the coffee, but the elitists irk me.
Stay well and keep listening to the crack.
Dave Smith
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

11) From: Skydragon454
With you sir...I am in good company :)   Happy roasting!
 
Eric M.
 
In a message dated 5/12/2008 6:59:39 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
ddubr75 writes:
Hello roasters and? posters,
I did appreciate the trials and  studies and will continue to do so, with the 
Behmor and all the other methods  of roasting that have been born by the 
creative roasters.
I was curious  about the Behmor and it's profiles, I am not sure that I 
begged... but  perception and reality are rarely in close proximity. 
I have always  found roasting personal, a control and craft phenomenon. If I 
wanted company I  would go down to the local coffee shop and swill the local 
grind.
I  thank you all for your contributions, I feel a trifle put off by the hob  
snobbery of it all. There are those that are all about the coffee, but the  
elitists irk me.
Stay well and keep listening to the crack.
Dave  Smith
Homeroast mailing  list
Homeroasthttp://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.com
Homeroast  community pictures -upload yours!) :  http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family 
favorites at AOL Food.      
http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

12) From: John Carlson
I recently purchased an IR2 and have created a preset through a little trial and error that generally produces a roast that I'm pretty happy with. I haven't been able to find any "rules of thumb" that define general timelines, temperatures at various stages of roast, time to 1st crack, 2nd crack, etc. I generally the start of the 2nd after about 7 1/2 min. I moved up from a FR and I'm wondering if the IR2 may not have a lot to offer that I'm not taking advantage of.
 
John C
Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with Windows Live.http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093185mrt/direct/01/Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

13) From: Seth Grandeau
John,
I started with the IR2, before moving to the Behmor.  If you search around,
particularly sites like CoffeeGeek Forums, you can find profiles that other
people have used.  Unfortunately, the IR2 is very "finicky".  Not only are
they somewhat inconsistent in accuracy (mine always read temperatures that
were consistent, but no where near the chamber temperature or bean mass
temps), but they are also greatly impacted by environmental effects (ambient
temp, humidity, load on your circuit, chaff level).  What I found worked
well for me was a profile that kept ramping up temperatures, slowly enough
to give me 10+ minutes roasts to FC and fast enough to not "stall" at any
temperature for more than 1 minute.  My last phase was always at a high temp
(450, I think) and maxed out the time to the full 15 minutes.  That way, you
can always get your bean to the desired temp.  I had a few profiles I used.
A "slow" one for island coffees, a medium one that I used most often, and a
fast one for beans that I wanted to take to Vienna or beyond (never
intentially beyond, but it happens).
With the IR2, I preferred to roast outside.  This has the added benefit that
you can open the chaff collector (using an oven mitt!!!).  This has several
effects.  It improves air flow around the beans (for a more even roast), it
cools the chamber (good to do as you enter 1st crack, to "slow it down"),
and it gets more of your chaff off the beans.
Good luck and happy roasting!
On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 10:31 PM, John Carlson  wrote:
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

14) From: Peter Minkow
On recent posts, reference has been made to long and short roasting profiles
on the IR2. Are longer profiles better for particular brewing methods and
shorter profiles for others? Are longer profiles better for certain bean
origins? My questions assume maintaining the same roast level, City +. I'm
relatively new to my IR2 and am learning as I roast.
Thanks.
Peter
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

15) From: Allon Stern
On Jun 9, 2009, at 3:50 PM, Peter Minkow wrote:
<Snip>
The IR2 gives you very poor control over the roast.
At least it gives you control.
I have modified my iRoast2 by adding a thermocouple and a vent fan;  
by controlling the speed of the vent fan, I can change the amount of  
heat applied to the beans within a range; this is really useful for  
stretching the roast. DO NOT TRUST THE TEMPERATURE READING YOU GET  
FROM THE iROAST! It isn't even close, and doesn't measure what you  
want to measure, namely the temperature of the bean mass.
My vent fan:http://www.radioactive.org/pix/roaster/geez, I really ought to update that page. But the original design is  
still in use; I found the variable supply lets me control the speed  
of the van and the roast (I was originally intending to use the fan  
only for ventilation, but then discovered I could use it to control  
the roast). And the fan hasn't needed to be replaced yet, over a year  
later.
Anyway, as for differing profiles, I find that for light roasts, to  
maximize fruit in dry processed coffees, I like to really stretch out  
the roast as much as I can, while keeping it in the C/C+ range.
For darker roasts, I tend to go a little faster - darker doesn't  
necessarily mean a longer roast; in fact, it is often a shorter  
roast. I may do a 12-15 minute light roast, but a 10 minute dark  
roast, for example.
It's about more than time in the roaster. It's about more than final  
temperature - it's about how you get there. The rate of temperature  
change is probably the most important thing. If you slow down the  
early stages of the roast, you'll find the later stages go slower as  
well. You can't rush into 1st crack, then expect to draw out a C+  
roast over the next couple of minutes. Roasts really do have  
momentum, and you really have to experiment with that momentum to  
understand it.
Another thing to keep in mind, with the iRoast, is that the chaff  
blocks airflow, and plays a role in how the roaster works. You will  
have to use different profile/methods for high chaff dry processed  
coffees, lower chaff wet processed coffees, and no chaff decafs.
-
allon
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

16) From: silascoelho
Peter
I also have a IR2, and Im also new to roasting. But one thing that seems 
good for me is to use the long profiles to 'easy' a little bit the high 
acidity of some coffes (specially some Africans), and it is working quite 
well for me.
I use 'short' profiles for everything else, when I blend high acidity with 
low acidity type of coffe, I roast in two batches to make sure that acidity 
edge has been removed properly.
these are my two cents, hope helps
Silas


HomeRoast Digest