Hi Greg (cc SM List since seemed highly appropriate), First your post came as somewhat humorous or ironic. You sold your HotTop because lacking profile control and I just recently ordered a HotTop to gain automated precise profile control! (From Jeffrey, hacked HotTop with his computer control interface and software;-) While I haven't used the I-Roast2 it looks to be what the I-Roast1 should have been. Namely ability to save custom profiles after power loss and decent number of stages. Five stages likely adequate for some fairly complex and diverse profiles. My understanding is the user interface still sucks though. (per Tom) But once you memorize the various multi simultaneous button functions shouldn't be too bad, just not intuitive. I agree slow green warm-up important, though slow is a relative term since different roasting methods transfer heat to the beans at different rates. Generally speaking air roasting transfers heat faster than drum and too slow flattens the roast. In other words you can't use the same times for an air roast as for a drum roast and expect the same results. Too slow early stage can have adverse effects too, just different roast defect than too fast. That said I've used various early to yellowing stage timings with my Rostos over the years. For the Rosto I've settled in using high heat and fast ramp to 225f in 1 minute from cold followed by drastically reducing the heat and ramp for 2 to 3 min 225f to 300f. Some beans 3min total time to 300f is too fast yielding a straw or grass taste taint no matter how the rest of the roast. A particular XF Kona was giving me fits until I lenthened that stage to 300f to 3:30 min total (2:30 225f to 300f). The past 3 months or so I've been using that same early stage for all beans with good success. Here's my current basic for any bean for "coffee" Frankenformer Rosto profile: Note bean temps measured with analog thermometer in center of bean mass, slow circular moving beans not upward dancing beans like typical air roaster. 225f @ 1min 260f @ 2min 285f @ 3min 300f @ 3:30 yellowing 400f @ 7:30 (straight 25f per min, tanning around 350f, browning up 350 to 400f) Start of 1st varies 400 to 410f. Start of 1st 20f per min to typical 420f Then 10f per min ramp Typical City+/Light Full city Kona 445f @11min Typical Indonesians like Sumatra or Sulawesi continue to 450f @ 11:30 picking up the ramp to 20f per min typical FC 455f just touching 2nd 11:45 to 12. Harder beans tend to start 1st a bit later (410 to 415 rather than 400f) and all later time temps adjusted accordingly. Some quirky beans like PRYS really resist the roast and a 460f is more like City+. My "typical" espresso roast (and Kenya tamer "coffee" roast} is overall slower profile. Same 300f @ 3:30 Followed by 20f per min to 400f @8:30 Then slowed to 10f per min. Typical 455f FC just touching 2nd 14min I used to use a lot more and more complex profiles but have either gotten lazy or complacent or maybe simplifying the profiles is simply working well in the cup! Though in my heart I know I'm not necessarily getting the absolute best out of a particular bean if I don't take the time to try multiple profiles on each and every different green. I do well remember the Diedrich seminar profiling papers on how to zero in a roast... I've said it before and I'll say it again, it's the one area we home roasters routinely roasting dozens and dozens of different greens are at a disadvantage. Who's going to have the time to do a dozen or so roasts of EvErY green they roast to really dial it in? miKe mcKoffee URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before. www.MDMProperties.net From: gregdhumphreys [mailto:gregdhumphreys] Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 9:42 AM To: miKe mcKoffee Subject: Roasting Profiles Hi Mike! So are you in Vancouver or off traveling someplace? If not in Vancouver, I hope you are checking your e-mail from the road. OK, I have a question for you, but I want to give you some history first: My friend that I sold the RK Drum to did a roast in which he accidentally pulled the beans out too early. So, he put them back in, roasted them a bit longer, and the result was awesome. When I learned what he did, I said, "Yes, I've heard of people 'double roasting' with the RK Drum." Well, he did several other batches, all double roasted, and all of them except one were really good. The one that I didn't like, although it was double roasted, he hadn't watched very closley and it heated up way faster than normal. So....I started reading some from Tom on the Sweet Marias site, and I see that Tom says almost all beans benefit from a slower warm-up time, and that this is more important than a long pause between first and second cracks. OK, by this time you may be wondering where I'm going with all of this. Here it goes: I sold the Hottop because it does not allow me enough control over the roast profile, and I purchased what I felt was the best commercially available option right now (at a price I can afford, anyway): I have an I-Roast 2 on the way. Now, here is my question: What roast profile do you recommend for an island coffee and what do you recommend for a monsooned malabar coffee? Now, I certainly don't have as much control over the roast profile as you do, but I can set five different stages with the I-Roast 2. I know, that was a long e-mail for a simple question, but I felt I had to let you know why I was asking. Greg |
WOW mike, great to see you finally ordered a real roaster.. ... . LOL. = If this thing works the way you described you may have to tell me more = about the controls. It sounds very interesting and of all the roasters I have owned and tried, the standard HotTop has been the best by far this past = year and 1/2, nope, over two years now. Terry |
Congratulations on the new roaster Mike. I am looking forward to your reports. I am still enjoying my RK drum setup. Les On 10/26/05, mIke mcKoffee wrote: <Snip> e <Snip> r <Snip> o <Snip> 5 <Snip> l <Snip> s <Snip> t <Snip> t <Snip> : <Snip> e <Snip> |
Hey Javafool, you dissin' my Frankenformer Rosto roasting!-) Truth be told I don't really expect "better" roasts per se' or even larger batch sizes (already routinely do half pounders) but looking for hands off repeatability and automated convenience. Plus I tend to be a bit of a computer/gadget type-o-guy and have an old unused PII 300Mhz Laptop laying around just begging me to hook it up to a coffee roaster. And of course will more easily be able to experiment with all kinds of profiles with the touch of a few key strokes. You may have missed it posted previously, here's an overview of what Jeffrey's doing:http://www.pawlan.com/ccr.html'Tain't cheap, but compared to the cost of similar control on a commercial roaster what Jeffrey is charging is indeed relatively reasonable. ($7500.00 to add computerized profile control to an Ambex for instance. Jeffrey's charging less than a sixth of that) Of course Debi doesn't know about it yet... So it could get REALLY expensive!-) miKe mcKoffee URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before. www.MDMProperties.net |
I'm looking forward to the new coffee roasting toy, I mean tool;-) It'll be another couple weeks 'till build is complete and I receive it though I believe. Bummer, but something to look for to! miKe mcKoffee URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before. www.MDMProperties.net From: homeroast-admin [mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Les Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 4:37 PM Congratulations on the new roaster Mike. I am looking forward to your reports. I am still enjoying my RK drum setup. Les |
I wanted in on this now but my photographic hobby pegged my cash flow this year :( :). I'm hoping next year they'll still be around ... DJ Back from Navajo Country with lots of pictures ... |
This profile from Pat is a gem: <Snip> temp button while it is running pretty well match what I've set in the profile. Yours may run >completely differently. <Snip> <Snip> <Snip> I used it last night after I unboxed my I-Roast2 with these spectacular results.http://picasaweb.google.com/donna.michael/March2008/photo?authkey=8foXzRa2g68#5176654514010923714Does anyone have an IR2 profile for a decaf? I roasted some Komodo and couldn't get the oil to start showing. Thanks. -- Donna and Mike Homeroast mailing list Homeroasthttp://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.com |
If the oil doesn't break the bean surface, it's inside... more richness when you see a little less oil... Brett On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 6:33 AM, Donna and Mike wrote: <Snip> -- Cheers, Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.comHomeroast mailing list Homeroasthttp://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.com |
On Mar 12, 2008, at 7:50 AM, Brett Mason wrote: <Snip> I recommend you get yourself a thermocouple. The numbers programmed into the IR2, and read out on its temperature display, are just numbers; they may be relative to each other, but have no bearing on actual temperature. You won't know what's really going on until you get a TC. I use the profile 320 for 3 minutes 340 for 2 minutes 375 for 2 minutes 390 until EOR with really good results.I usualy don't hit 1st crack until around 7 or 8 minutes. I may fool around with it to extend the the time between 1st and 2nd -- after 1st it really picks up when the beans go exothermic. The hard part is that exactly WHEN to do this change is highly dependent on the bean, and the amount roasted; I wish that you could specify a "knee" in your profile based upon temperature, and that it used a real TC. - allon Homeroast mailing list Homeroasthttp://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.com |
Hello roasters and? posters, I did appreciate the trials and studies and will continue to do so, with the Behmor and all the other methods of roasting that have been born by the creative roasters. I was curious about the Behmor and it's profiles, I am not sure that I begged... but perception and reality are rarely in close proximity. I have always found roasting personal, a control and craft phenomenon. If I wanted company I would go down to the local coffee shop and swill the local grind. I thank you all for your contributions, I feel a trifle put off by the hob snobbery of it all. There are those that are all about the coffee, but the elitists irk me. Stay well and keep listening to the crack. Dave Smith Homeroast mailing list Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20 |
With you sir...I am in good company :) Happy roasting! Eric M. In a message dated 5/12/2008 6:59:39 P.M. Central Daylight Time, ddubr75 writes: Hello roasters and? posters, I did appreciate the trials and studies and will continue to do so, with the Behmor and all the other methods of roasting that have been born by the creative roasters. I was curious about the Behmor and it's profiles, I am not sure that I begged... but perception and reality are rarely in close proximity. I have always found roasting personal, a control and craft phenomenon. If I wanted company I would go down to the local coffee shop and swill the local grind. I thank you all for your contributions, I feel a trifle put off by the hob snobbery of it all. There are those that are all about the coffee, but the elitists irk me. Stay well and keep listening to the crack. Dave Smith Homeroast mailing list Homeroasthttp://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.com Homeroast community pictures -upload yours!) : http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)Homeroast mailing list Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20 |
I recently purchased an IR2 and have created a preset through a little trial and error that generally produces a roast that I'm pretty happy with. I haven't been able to find any "rules of thumb" that define general timelines, temperatures at various stages of roast, time to 1st crack, 2nd crack, etc. I generally the start of the 2nd after about 7 1/2 min. I moved up from a FR and I'm wondering if the IR2 may not have a lot to offer that I'm not taking advantage of. John C Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with Windows Live.http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093185mrt/direct/01/Homeroast mailing list Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20 |
John, I started with the IR2, before moving to the Behmor. If you search around, particularly sites like CoffeeGeek Forums, you can find profiles that other people have used. Unfortunately, the IR2 is very "finicky". Not only are they somewhat inconsistent in accuracy (mine always read temperatures that were consistent, but no where near the chamber temperature or bean mass temps), but they are also greatly impacted by environmental effects (ambient temp, humidity, load on your circuit, chaff level). What I found worked well for me was a profile that kept ramping up temperatures, slowly enough to give me 10+ minutes roasts to FC and fast enough to not "stall" at any temperature for more than 1 minute. My last phase was always at a high temp (450, I think) and maxed out the time to the full 15 minutes. That way, you can always get your bean to the desired temp. I had a few profiles I used. A "slow" one for island coffees, a medium one that I used most often, and a fast one for beans that I wanted to take to Vienna or beyond (never intentially beyond, but it happens). With the IR2, I preferred to roast outside. This has the added benefit that you can open the chaff collector (using an oven mitt!!!). This has several effects. It improves air flow around the beans (for a more even roast), it cools the chamber (good to do as you enter 1st crack, to "slow it down"), and it gets more of your chaff off the beans. Good luck and happy roasting! On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 10:31 PM, John Carlson wrote: <Snip> Homeroast mailing list Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20 |
On recent posts, reference has been made to long and short roasting profiles on the IR2. Are longer profiles better for particular brewing methods and shorter profiles for others? Are longer profiles better for certain bean origins? My questions assume maintaining the same roast level, City +. I'm relatively new to my IR2 and am learning as I roast. Thanks. Peter Homeroast mailing list Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20 |
On Jun 9, 2009, at 3:50 PM, Peter Minkow wrote: <Snip> The IR2 gives you very poor control over the roast. At least it gives you control. I have modified my iRoast2 by adding a thermocouple and a vent fan; by controlling the speed of the vent fan, I can change the amount of heat applied to the beans within a range; this is really useful for stretching the roast. DO NOT TRUST THE TEMPERATURE READING YOU GET FROM THE iROAST! It isn't even close, and doesn't measure what you want to measure, namely the temperature of the bean mass. My vent fan:http://www.radioactive.org/pix/roaster/geez, I really ought to update that page. But the original design is still in use; I found the variable supply lets me control the speed of the van and the roast (I was originally intending to use the fan only for ventilation, but then discovered I could use it to control the roast). And the fan hasn't needed to be replaced yet, over a year later. Anyway, as for differing profiles, I find that for light roasts, to maximize fruit in dry processed coffees, I like to really stretch out the roast as much as I can, while keeping it in the C/C+ range. For darker roasts, I tend to go a little faster - darker doesn't necessarily mean a longer roast; in fact, it is often a shorter roast. I may do a 12-15 minute light roast, but a 10 minute dark roast, for example. It's about more than time in the roaster. It's about more than final temperature - it's about how you get there. The rate of temperature change is probably the most important thing. If you slow down the early stages of the roast, you'll find the later stages go slower as well. You can't rush into 1st crack, then expect to draw out a C+ roast over the next couple of minutes. Roasts really do have momentum, and you really have to experiment with that momentum to understand it. Another thing to keep in mind, with the iRoast, is that the chaff blocks airflow, and plays a role in how the roaster works. You will have to use different profile/methods for high chaff dry processed coffees, lower chaff wet processed coffees, and no chaff decafs. - allon Homeroast mailing list Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20 |
Peter I also have a IR2, and Im also new to roasting. But one thing that seems good for me is to use the long profiles to 'easy' a little bit the high acidity of some coffes (specially some Africans), and it is working quite well for me. I use 'short' profiles for everything else, when I blend high acidity with low acidity type of coffe, I roast in two batches to make sure that acidity edge has been removed properly. these are my two cents, hope helps Silas |