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Topic: Alp and espresso: how far do you go? (13 msgs / 207 lines)
1) From: Renaud Dreyer
Continuing my love affair with my new Alp, after the over-roasted
batch I did on Thursday night, on Friday night I decided to roast 1/2
a lb of Monkey Blend, for espresso. I set the Alp on "10" this time
and decided to listen. The Alp audibly reached fast second crack and 
then, about 15 second later, the cool down cycle started. Since, with 
the FR, I usually roast until rolling second crack, I thought I'd 
roasted to the right level, maybe a little bit too much. 
The beans looked very nice, dark brown and dry. After a few hours, 
they started developping small patches of oil.
Finally, after a full 72 hours rest period, I decided to try it out.
Ground my 16 grams in the Anfim Best, and pulled a shot on my Rancilio
Audrey. As with all my homeroasting beans, I got a nice, thick cream
and was really eager to finally try a drum-roasted, full-bodied shot.
So why did it taste so absolutely *horrible*? Sour, grassy, basically 
very underroasted for espresso.
So, either there is something wrong with my Alp (but then again, why 
do these beans look and smell so nice?...) or I have a lot to unlearn 
and relearn from my year as a hot-air roaster.
It looks like fast second crack (setting of "9" or 
"10" for my particular Alp) is not enough for espresso with a drum 
roaster. What I'd like to know is how far do Alp owners usually 
roast, when aiming for espresso? Thanks,
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2) From: John Roche
on 7/16/01 8:07, Renaud Dreyer at rdreyer wrote:
on my ALP, a setting of 9 or 10 would not even get me close to second crack.
are you sure you got to second crack? did you get a fair amount of smoke? a
rolling second crack should produce very visable smoke. what was the actual
roast time? 
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3) From: Renaud Dreyer
Yes, quite sure. I get first crack, a pause, then second crack starts 
and picks up in intensity quickly.
Yes I do, fortunately it all goes outside...
About 18 minutes, 45 seconds. Am I the only one here using the Alp to 
roast for espresso?... Ciao,
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4) From: Don Parkhurst/Katherine Bartel
I too roast for espresso and aim for full city.  My personal goal is to
match the style of the classic Italian espresso such as Illy or Mauro.  I
end up with the same kind of timing: about 18 minutes and 45 seconds.  This
of course varies with conditions.
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5) From: Renaud Dreyer
Sonically speaking, how far into the second crack do you go?
I'm stating to wonder if my extension cord (14 gauge, 25 ft) isn't 
the culprit. Next roast I'll try a 12 gauge, 10 feet cord. Thanks,
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6) From: Don Parkhurst/Katherine Bartel
I aim for about 45 seconds into second crack.  After I hit the cool button,
it is still producing some cracking.  I found that the magic spot for me is
actually closer to 50 or 52 seconds, but every time I go for that elusive
roast, I miss it and turn it into *$.

7) From: John Roche
Your length of roast matches mine almost exactly but I would never get that
with a 9 or 10 setting.  I roast with it set all the way up and stop
manually, but tried it by the numbers when it first arrived. I roast only
for espresso/cap's etc. Mostly Malabar Gold, Monkey and some others. Are we
talking about all beans in your machine or just one in particular?
on 7/17/01 1:19, Renaud Dreyer at rdreyer wrote:
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8) From: Renaud Dreyer
I have a feeling that my extension cord could be having strange 
effects. I'll give it a try without it, now that I have an empty jar 
I tried Moka Kadir and a Moka-Java blend. Malabar Gold is my favorite 
but is always the hardest to roast so I'll try that last. Thanks,
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9) From: Greg Scace
My alp roasts 227 g of Monkey to fast second crack in about 15 mins and 30 
secs.  My particular taste buds like monkey roasted to the point where 
second crack starts to pop quickly.  On my alp I must manually hit the cool 
button (my preference always) with the setting on 10 in order to terminate 
roasts done to fast second crack.
At 10:19 AM 7/17/2001 -0700, you wrote:
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10) From: Renaud Dreyer
Thanks for the info, Greg.
I guess I must have a "cooler" Alp. I just did a roast without the 
extension cord, and it appears that the cord was the culprit in my 
awful roasts before. I got to rapid second crack of Moka Kadir in 19 
minutes and 45 seconds. Tasted very good, a bit too flat and bitter 
though. I have to start roasting lighter than on the Fresh Roast to 
hit that perfect "sweet" spot again. Ciao,
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11) From: John Roche
on 7/20/01 2:12, Renaud Dreyer at rdreyer wrote:
For reference, can you tell us what the extension cord set up was and how
exactly it impacted the roast and/or time. I can understand how it might
effect an HWP w/ it's micro chip and all, but am surprised by the ALP as i
thought it had no chip/ roast profile per se. I was under the impression
that the ALP just ramped up via the heating element to a set temp and the
only real electronic control was via the numbered timer settings.
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12) From: Renaud Dreyer
The extension cord was 14 gauge, 25 feet. Using it resulted in roughly
the same roast times, going by ear, except that the cracks were
definitely weaker (less pops). The resulting roast, even though it 
looked, externally, dark brown and even slightly oily after a few 
hours and smelled accordingly, tasted sour and grassy, both Monkey 
Blend and Moka Kadir, as espresso and as plunger press. Ciao,
               Renaud Dreyer
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13) From: John Roche
on 7/21/01 11:13, Renaud Dreyer at rdreyer wrote:
Hmmm... that is very odd. I have no idea what to make of that. What the hell
would cuase that? I could understand if the time changed or the beans looked
different... one would guess the overall temp was lower but i would think
you would either end up with needing a longer roast time or having beans
that roasted lighter in color. or both.
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