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Topic: Trouble in Pumper paradise (19 msgs / 400 lines)
1) From: Brian Kamnetz
I just tried a roast in my newly purchaced Popcorn Pumper. From
turning it on empty I had the impression that it put out more heat
than a P2, so I planned to use 75 g rather than my now standard 115 g
(1/4 lb). But I forgot and measured out the 115 g. The Pumper had a
sort of rough sound to it, and didn't seem to put out the heat I had
expected. At 4 mins, when I was sort of expecting first crack
(actually, I was afraid it would be well before this point) the beans
were just beginning to turn from tan to brown. First crack began
around 8:00, and around 8:30 the Pumper quit! Fortunately I had also
brought the P2 as a standby and was able to finish the roast.
I just tried the Pumper again and it runs, so it apparently isn't
permanantly fried. I would appreciate any advice (including reference
to web sites) on how to proceed from here. Again, this is apparently
the preferred "old" style pumper, very heavy (3 lbs), with an on/off
switch.
Thanks for any help.
Brian

2) From: Scott Marquardt
Dang!
"Quit?" Could you be more specific?
Two things. First, I suspect there's something wrong with the unit. Take it
apart entirely, down to the heater coil, for an inspection.
Secondly,  . . . dang, I had a distraction and came back to forget what the
second thing was. But never mind -- first a complete inspection of your
unit.
If you've never taken one apart, you're in for a treat. They're indeed
wonderfully over-engineered for a popcorn popper. At least, the 1400W Pumpe=
r
you have is (the weaker one is just a Poppery II, for all practical
purposes)
I'd be interested to hear what you find inside.

3) From: Peter Zulkowski
Hi Brian,
Sounds to me like the overheat fuse stopped it. In my experience, once 
these go, they need to be replaced, and the popper won't start until you 
do that.
The thermostat usually just turns off the heater.
What I would do, would be take it apart and remove both the thermostat 
and the overheat part.
But then I roast outside on a concrete patio, away from the house.
Remember, I never said for *you *to remove the thermal overload 
protection, that is just what crazy me would do.
Most folks would find a replacement I bet.
Good luck,
PeterZ
Packing for Mexico today, still, here in LHC
Brian Kamnetz wrote:
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4) From: Matthew Price
You might try bypassing the themostat first before you give up on it. 
Which pumper version is it?  The most obvious difference is whether it
has a big rocker switch on the base.
Matthew
On 2/15/06, Brian Kamnetz  wrote:
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5) From: Les
Brian,
I have one of these and I just love it.  You have to plug the butter
hole.  If you don't there is too much hot air diverted there.  The
unit will work much better if you get rid of the thermal cut off that
is wired in.  My guess is the thermal switch is kicking in and
shutting down your heat.
Les
On 2/15/06, Brian Kamnetz  wrote:
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6) From: Scott Marquardt
One of the perils of splitting a popper's circuits is the prospect of
accidentally nuking the coil with no airflow. I've often wished the thermal
breaker was immediately responsive, instead of the dullard thing that it is
("Whah? Something's getting hot you say? Dang, I was supposed to do
something when that happens. Now what was it . . . oh, yeah . . . it's
comin' back now . . . I remember . . . "). But that'd be pointless
engineering for the device's intended purpose.  ;-)
I guess a relay in the blower circuit would do the trick -- its coil in
series with the motor and contacts in series with the heater switch. That'd
afford some protection.
In all seriousness, The 1400W Pumper is, IMO, the next best thing to a P1
(the likes of which I've never seen but whose qualities seem to be
universally celebrated). It's rugged and the motor handles over-powering as
if it would be just as pleased with 220. The thermal mass of the heating
assembly is amazing.

7) From: Brian Kamnetz
By "quit" I mean the fan stopped working, as though I had turned off
the switch or unplugged it. Aftter it quit I turned the switch off and
quickly transferred the beans first to a SS container, then to the P2.
In reading your qwuesttion It occurred to me that it is possible that
just the fan stopped working and the heater element continued to work.
I have taken P2's apart, installed switches to the heating element,
removed the bimetal thermostat, etc., but have never been inside a
Pumper. Are there known cutoffs that may have kicked in and stopped
the Pumper?
I will not have a chance to get into the popper until Thurs night or
possible Friday, but will certainly let you know what I find.
Thanks again for any advice.
Brian
On 2/15/06, Scott Marquardt  wrote:
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8) From: Brian Kamnetz
This Pumper has the big on/off switch on the front, and is heavy; it
weighs +3 lbs.
Brian
On 2/15/06, Matthew Price  wrote:
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9) From: Brian Kamnetz
Ok, Les, I will try to do those things. Mike (just plain) also
suggested plugging the butter hole but I haven't done that yet. Either
tonight or tomorrow night I will take it apart and try to locate the
thermal cut off. (I'm not all that handy, and the only thing I know
about electricity is that I stay away from it every chance I get.)
Thanks for your help.
Brian
On 2/15/06, Les  wrote:
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ribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>

10) From: Matthew Price
I had this happen once to me with my gen2 pumper (sans switch).  I did
something dumb, can't remember what now, and it just shut down
completely.  I've been using it since and it seems to have suffered no
ill effects.  I would guess that it was the thermal fuse, but I had
assumed that the fuse was a fail-once kind of device - i.e. a fuse. 
If it works, keep experimenting.
On 2/15/06, Brian Kamnetz  wrote:
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11) From: Greg C. Rose
I had a similar problem with one of my P1's.  I blew the thermal fuse.  This 
however shut the fan down but not the heating coil, so if that is similar to 
your situation you with that.  Personally, I replaced the fuse rather than 
remove the safety feature.  Its probably the same 98C fuse in the pumper.  
The fuse will run you about $1.25.  If the entire unit is still running and 
then shutting down its probably the thermostat, which would then need to be 
removed to reach the proper roasting temps.
Greg
Roasting in a P1
I 
had a similar problem with one of my P1's.  I blew the thermal 
fuse.  This however shut the fan down but not the heating coil, so if 
that is similar to your situation you with that.  Personally, I 
replaced the fuse rather than remove the safety feature.  Its probably 
the same 98C fuse in the pumper.  The fuse will run you about 
$1.25.  If the entire unit is still running and then shutting down its 
probably the thermostat, which would then need to be removed to reach the 
proper roasting temps.
 
Greg
Roasting in a P1

12) From: Matthew Price
The thermal fuse it pretty plain looking.  It's not a diode or a
bimetal thermostat (the only two other component sized things)  so
that should narrow it down just by process of elimination.  Solder in
a bridge wire if it's blown - short a nine volt accross the two leads
and watch for sparks if you don't have a meter.
On 2/15/06, Brian Kamnetz  wrote:
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13) From:
My Pumper is on loan to one of my friends, and has not been altered or
modified. It did OK as it was. True, thermal fuses have some purpose.
Without removing the fuse(th), you can parallel it with some more
protective copper wire.
Add this wire only if you always look at the Pumper while you are
roasting. That's normal, isn't it? If you mod the thing, it's bo
longer a home appliance like a washing machine or furnace, and won't
stop automatically. An experimental device.
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
Keep on the watch!

14) From: Brian Kamnetz
Hi Greg,
I'm not familiar with electrical things, so have no guess. Again, it
was roasting along and the fan stopped; I don't konw whether the
element continued to work or not. The beans immediately started
smoking, but I thought it was due to residual heat. Who knows, maybe
the element was still on. A while later when I plugged the Pumper in
and turned it on, the fan came on. So as far as i know at about 8:30
something overheated and it turned something off, either the fan or
the whole caboodle.
Incidentally, thanks for mentioning the type of fuse (98c).That could
turn out to be very useful info. However, since I was later able to
turn the unit on, the problems seems more apt to be the thermostat.
However, I'm kind of wondering about that; in the P2, the bimetal
strip thermostat turns off only the heat element, not the fan....
brian
On 2/15/06, Greg C. Rose  wrote:
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15) From: Brian Kamnetz
"...but I had assumed that the fuse was a fail-once kind of device...".
That was my assumption too, that if a fuse blows it is curtains for
that fuse and the fuse must be replaced. Are there other kinds of
fuses in service in small appliances?
Thanks,
brian
On 2/15/06, Matthew Price  wrote:
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16) From: Michael Wascher
Yes.
Appliances often use a self resettable protection device that will open on
overheat then reset when it cools down again.
On 2/15/06, Brian Kamnetz  wrote:
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--
"Life is just one damned thing after another."
  - Elbert Hubbard

17) From: Brian Kamnetz
Are those (self resettable protection device) all like the bimetal
tabs in the P2?
Brian
On 2/15/06, Michael Wascher  wrote:
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18) From: Michael Wascher
Bimetal devices like that exist, are more common in other applications (e.g=
.
headlights in cars are often protected with these).
The devices often used in appliances are made with a low temperature meltin=
g
alloy. My understanding of their operation is: when the alloy gets hot
enough it flows away from the electrical contacts opening the circuit; then
as it cools it flows back and completes the circuit again. Of course, like
anything else, the number of  operations are finite and eventually it will
fail -- presumably it will fail in the safer open state.
Physically, they usually look like a small metal tube, the ends plugged wit=
h
plastic or ceramic & leads protruding from one or both ends. They're small
enough that they are often embedded within the windings of small motors,
though I wouldn't expect that in a popper.
BTW: I have a Poppery 2 & a Popper (the original). I've had both torn down
completely and saw no protection device.
On 2/15/06, Brian Kamnetz  wrote:
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--
"Life is just one damned thing after another."
  - Elbert Hubbard

19) From: Brian Kamnetz
Thanks for your explanation of low-temp melting protection devices. I
had no idea that such a thing existed.
Brian
On 2/16/06, Michael Wascher  wrote:
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