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Topic: NO to UPS -> Re: +Fooling a Bad Espresso .... (11 msgs / 262 lines)
1) From: Aaron
Unless you have an UPS that can handle 1500 WATTS, for at least 20 
minutes   not VA that they are generally rated in, but watts,  plugging 
a pot into it can be a very bad idea.  BTW an ups that can handle this 
much power is also going to weigh about 60 pounds or more or have huge 
battery packs attached to it.
At best, the ups overloads and shuts down.
At worse, the ups fuses it's output relay and MELTS DOWN.
I have a 1400 VA ups and yes i thought Id try it to regulate the voltage 
to my I roast... didn't like it, screamed at me, cried overload and 
dumped in about 10 seconds.
smaller ups' especially ones that are a few years old are notorious for 
frying when they get hit with a hard overload.
I believe you said you were an engineer so would know better than to do 
this I hope but wanted to point this  out to others in case they decided 
it might be something to try....Dont.... its a bad idea.
Aaron

2) From: Steve Hay
On 2/26/06, Aaron  wrote:
<Snip>
You caught me..  I'd never really seriously considered it until that moment
and practices some sloppy engineering. :)
If my power really WAS out, I'd probably use my gas range and FP.
Went to Whole Foods today.  They had "filled" dates on their bags, not roas=
t
dates.  I wonder what that means..  No green for sale.  However, they did
have some Illy.  I picked up some Melitta #4's until I can get a SwissGold.
--
Steven Hay
hay.steve -AT- gmail.com

3) From: Aaron
Steve, I didnt really catch you in anything bad there.
Folks DO that,  power is out, they hear the ups fan whirring and its 
occasional beep  and go HeyyYYYY!!
Whether you pointed it out or not, the possibility of someone putting 
that specific two and two together is definately there.  People have 
done stranger things.
On that though, and something very interesting ive noticed.  Folks will 
jump in a minute to plug something into the ups when power dies BUT.
The cordless phone they are talking on, they almost NEVER consider that 
when the power goes ot, THAT goes out too, and will complain bitterly 
about not having a phone.  It never dawns on them to plug that into the 
ups. 
For those who live in florida, this is one of my recommendations I have 
on some of my survival pages, for when hurricanes hit, ... get yourself 
a normal NON cordless phone...  The power WILL probably go out, but 
phone service as I have seen from experience, survives remarkably well.  
your cordless phone will die the minute the power does because the base 
station has no juice, but with a normal phone, it's not a problem.
I had my parents do that when they went through charlie, I had them 
unplug all the computer stuff and use the ups just for their phone since 
they did not have a non cordess phone and yep sure nuff the power did 
die for a few days.
Cell phones are another thing too, they may or may not be operable, you 
can charge them off the ups too.   Tell your friends and family that you 
will have the phone on a few hours a day or whatever, and state a time, 
until power comes up, and turn your ups on then, and then off to 
conserve its batteries if you dont have an other source of electricity.
im starting to get off topic here, ill stop.
aaron

4) From: Steve Hay
On 2/26/06, Aaron  wrote:
<Snip>
Hmm.. so what you're saying is I could plug the coffee pot into the phone
jack!
 :)
--
Steven Hay
hay.steve -AT- gmail.com

5) From: Michael Wascher
24 VDC used to close a relay in the CO when you close the DC path at your
end. Maybe 10 Watts.
Not enough to make Miss Silvia happy.
On 2/26/06, Steve Hay  wrote:
<Snip>
--
"Life is just one damned thing after another."
  - Elbert Hubbard

6) From: Aaron
but you could regulate that voltage to just above the 'receiver off 
hook' threshold so you dont kill your phone line, zip it through an 
oscillator / regulator circuit and use it to charge up a battery bank so 
eventually you'd have enough stored power to run a big ups or inverter 
long enough to cook a cuppo cappo up :)  have a high voltage disconnect 
sensing circuit so that if a ringer voltage hits it, it disco's your 
gadget and lets yuo answer the phone without your I roast turning on in 
the process.
Aaron

7) From: Michael Wascher
You mean limit the current drawn?
Ringer voltage shouldn't be an issue. The AC ring voltage is superimposed o=
n
the DC, so the average level is always the same. You just need a bit of
filtering.
BTW, 24 VDC is common in most areas of the US, but the voltage may be
higher. The CO voltage is chosen so that it can drive the local loop with
sufficient current. A carrier with long local loops, such as a rural
carrier, might use a higher voltage. 36, 48 and even 72 V have been used in
the US, and may still be used in some areas.
On 2/26/06, Aaron  wrote:
<Snip>
--
"Life is just one damned thing after another."
  - Elbert Hubbard

8) From: Mike Chester
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
When I worked for Western Electric which was the supply division of AT&T =
before the breakup, back in the dark ages (1968) we kept the DC busses =
in the office at 54 volts.  The nominal voltage was listed at 48 volts, =
but the actual voltage at the phone could be as low as 2 volts due to =
line losses.  The phones were designed to operate at anywhere from 1.5 =
volts to 60 volts which was quite an engineering feat.  The ringer =
voltage was 105 volts AC.  It was always a thrill when you were working =
on a circuit at 54 VDC that you really could not feel and someone called =
that number and you got 105 VAC which you could feel.  
Mike Chester

9) From: Aaron
exactly.. by controlling the current drawn you can limit what the 
voltage drops to under the load.
As for the ringer voltge being superimposed yes it is, but depending on 
your setup,  if you are working a 24 volt setup, even though it is 
'averaged out' those 80 or more volt ringer peaks can wreak havok with 
your 'im expecting 24 volts' circuitry, especially if you are using any 
type of zener setup.  I was thinking more along the line of protecting 
the electronic part of your circuitry, the battery could care less.
perhaps I should have been more clearer and mentioned this in the first 
explanation,  also it was intended to prdon the pun... let the charger 
'off the hook' so you can answer the phone and have a normal operation 
when a call does come through without having your R value through the 
roof and your volume in the basement due to power drop.
aaron

10) From: Aaron
Mike that reminds me of a story when I was in the navy.  one of our IC 
men,  the telephone guys, the one guy was an idiot (offense intended) 
and nobody really liked him.  When we'd pull into port it was him who 
would always do the shore hookup of the ships phone system to the shore 
system. Well the rest of us, we'd run a salt and pepper line to the pier 
and jack into another line, didn't matter which, just any line that was 
operational, and wait for him to start hooking up the phones and start 
calling the number he'd be working on.
We'd then take bets on a) which expletive would come out of his mouth 
first  and b) how many times we could get him to 'jump' before he 
wisened up and put the electrical gloves on.  It was actually quite 
amusing to witness.
Aaron

11) From: Randolph Wilson
<Snip>
Clearly you have a low threshold for bad - now soaking greens in 
liquid oxygen and then lighting them because you want to see how 
quickly you can get to first crack - that would meet the "BAD IDEA" 
threshold for me.  Plugging your coffee gear into an undersized UPS 
is merely "uninteresting".
Randy, who fully expects his last words to be, "Hey Y'all, WATCH THIS!"


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