HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Making Espresso (44 msgs / 1442 lines)
1) From: Coffee Kid
I throw out this question to the collective wisdom of
all.  
I currently use a moka pot to make my espresso
substitute.  But, I really want to make a real
espresso with the great beans.  I am not in the money
per se.  I have been looking at the Gaggia Espresso
but have reservations.  The Sylvia seems a bit
problematic and temperamental.  My real desire is one
of the Quick Mills (Andreja) but i don't see making
that purchase for at least a couple of years.  So the
question is:  Buy something cheap now?  Buy something
in the $500 range down the road and be somewhat happy
with it, or, wait till who know when (maybe never) to
get the dream machine.
Opinions on Gaggia or other cheap machines?  Sylvia or
other?  Quick Mill or other?
Thanks for advice.  -Tom
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

2) From: Paul Sack
Quoting Coffee Kid :
<Snip>
First ya gotta get a good grinder. If you don't have money but do have 
room (like me), then get a used Rossi RR45 off E-Bay (about $100) and 
put new burrs in it (about $25). You can run it without the hopper (it 
has a deep, er, throat), and then it's not quite as big.
Then you should try to find a used espresso machine. I am happy with my 
Silvia, but I'm getting a big-ass Faema delivered Friday that needs 
some work, but will be fantastic once it's rebuilt--and won't cost me 
much after selling Silvia.
Some people say Silvia is tempermental. I'm not sure. For many people 
it's their first real pump machine (with a non-pressurized pf), so it's 
not the machine that's tempermental--it's that the person in front of 
the machine isn't using it  right. If a lot of people started with, 
say, the Andreja, you'd hear people say that it's a tempermental 
machine.
I don't have any experience with the Gaggias. Someone whose opinion I 
trust says Silvias are only a little bit better than Gaggias. I think 
he's probably right. On paper the Silvias have a little bit bigger 
boiler and maybe better materials, but that's about it.
BTW, Silvia is a lot easier to handle if you adjust the pressure down. 
PID helps, too, but temp-surfing works too.
You can resell Silvias pretty easily too. I got a few emails when I 
offhandedly mentioned in a thread on CoffeeGeek that I'd be selling my 
PIDded Silvia in a few weeks. (P.S.: Anyone here interested?)
-Paul

3) From: B. Scott Harroff
If you are going to get a used from ebay, I'd really recommend not buying
from Tagex.  Its been eight days since I paid for the used Major and they
still haven't even shipped it!!

4) From: Barry Luterman
Silvia keeps it's value more than the other machines. If you decide to 
upgrade a few years down the line you will get most of your money back. The 
other machines will probably wind up in a garage sale.

5) From: Sandy Andina
You will get far better espresso with even a Saeco (with  
nonpressurized portafilter, available separately, or used on eBay)  
than with a moka pot, provided you have a really good espresso  
grinder--certainly nothing cheaper than a Solis Maestro Plus or  
LaPavoni PG (aka "Maximo") and preferably at least a Rancilio Rocky.  
The Saeco (aka "Barista" or "Estro") machines have stainless steel  
boilers rather than the aluminum ones in the Gaggias. However, the  
Gaggias use professional 58mm pfs. and if you are conscientious about  
descaling and not using unfiltered tapwater, you can get pro-quality  
shots plus okay steaming for at least as long as it takes to save up  
enough to upgrade.  And the Gaggias are very economical--you can buy  
a $200 Carezza brand new, or a used Coffee, Classic, Espresso or Baby  
on eBay and still be able to save up enough for a Silvia down the  
road. If you are not going to do milk drinks for a crowd, you may  
never need to upgrade from the Silvia (and may even be satisfied for  
a long time with the Gaggia).
But get the grinder first! You will notice the difference with even  
the moka pot.
On Mar 1, 2006, at 10:52 AM, Coffee Kid wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com

6) From: Paul Sack
Just as a data point, I had a great experience buying from Tagex very 
recently. I expected it to take 2-3 weeks and only took 7 days to 
arrive. YMMV.
Quoting "B. Scott Harroff" :
<Snip>

7) From: Les
I would wait and save my money for a good HX machine.   When Quick
Mill brings out their duel boiler, there should be some good deals on
Ebay on some nice HX machines.  Care must be taken buying from Ebay. 
My rebuild of a Miss Silvia cost me as much as a new machine.  I was
lucky and sold it to a private buyer with only about a $100.00 loss. 
There is nothing wrong with a good Gaggia.  That said, why buy
something that is going to lead to upgrade fever!  I will ditto the
grinder being the most important investment.  As Pecan Jim (where has
he been?) ended his thread, "the espresso machine is an accessory to
the grinder")
Les
On 3/1/06, Coffee Kid  wrote:
<Snip>
ribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>

8) From: Sandy Andina
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Should also mention this was my upgrade path from a Krups thermoblock  
pumper (and I started out with a Neapolitan flip pot and then a moka  
pot before plugging in):
Saeco Rio Vapore (1992-5) Pressurized PF had not yet been introduced,  
so I learned how to grind and tamp.
Estro Profi (1995-8) This was a Starbucks-branded version of the  
foregoing with a built in burr grinder. Briefly flirted with pods  
before deciding to throw them out. Bought the nonpressurized PF  
because the one that came with the Saeco went to my sister when I  
gave her that machine. After three gasket replacements, the burrs got  
dull and the pump quit, and it wasn't cost-effective to repair.
Capresso Ultima (1998-2005)--a strange little anomaly: a superauto  
with a manual frother and no grinder, it made so-so espresso, did its  
own tamping and was a b$%^h to clean--and never did get really clean  
(the cloudy grayish-brownish water it produced was truly unappetizing).
Rancilio Silvia (2/2005-6/2005) Still have it as my backup.  Have pulled
G-d shots and small quantities of great microfoam, but cannot steam  
and brew simultaneously and requires time/temp surfing to do so  
immediately sequentially w/o installing a PID (I am all thumbs and  
didn't want to spend the $200 via eBay that the guy in Wilmington, NC  
charges).
Pasquini Livia 90 Automatic--(6/2005-present, no plans to upgrade).   
At the time Quick Mill had not yet introduced the Anita. The Livia  
Auto lists for $1499 and the semiauto a couple of hundred less, but I  
was able to score an online deal for $1100 for the Auto without  
having to buy any Illy pods (I could tell you offlist where I got it  
but I'm not going to break Tom's rules by divulging it here). I love  
it, even though it does not have a true e61 grouphead and it took me  
months of practice and an aftermarket steam wand tip to be able to  
harness its excessive (IMHO) steaming power to make latte-art-quality  
microfoam.  It makes great shots without needing to be as "updosed"  
as other machines, including Silvia. I find its pressure gauge  
correlates to temp as well.  I love being able to set water doses for  
ristretto and normale, or single and doppio, as well as manually  
overriding them. Also use the hot water tap more than I do my  
electric kettle.
On Mar 1, 2006, at 10:52 AM, Coffee Kid wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
--Apple-Mail-69--276573179
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Should also mention this was my =
upgrade path from a Krups thermoblock pumper (and I started out with a =
Neapolitan flip pot and then a moka pot before plugging in):Saeco Rio Vapore (1992-5) =
Pressurized PF had not yet been introduced, so I learned how to grind =
and tamp.Estro =
Profi (1995-8) This was a Starbucks-branded version of the =
foregoing with a built in burr grinder. Briefly flirted with pods before =
deciding to throw them out. Bought the nonpressurized PF because the one =
that came with the Saeco went to my sister when I gave her that machine. =
After three gasket replacements, the burrs got dull and the pump quit, =
and it wasn't cost-effective to repair.Capresso Ultima =
(1998-2005)--a strange little anomaly: a superauto with a manual frother =
and no grinder, it made so-so espresso, did its own tamping and was a =
b$%^h to clean--and never did get really clean (the cloudy =
grayish-brownish water it produced was truly =
unappetizing).Rancilio Silvia (2/2005-6/2005) Still have it as my =
backup.  Have pulled G-d shots and small =
quantities of great microfoam, but cannot steam and brew simultaneously =
and requires time/temp surfing to do so immediately sequentially w/o =
installing a PID (I am all thumbs and didn't want to spend the $200 via =
eBay that the guy in Wilmington, NC charges).Pasquini Livia 90 =
Automatic--(6/2005-present, no plans to upgrade).  At the time =
Quick Mill had not yet introduced the Anita. The Livia Auto lists for =
$1499 and the semiauto a couple of hundred less, but I was able to score =
an online deal for $1100 for the Auto without having to buy any Illy =
pods (I could tell you offlist where I got it but I'm not going to break =
Tom's rules by divulging it here). I love it, even though it does not =
have a true e61 grouphead and it took me months of practice and an =
aftermarket steam wand tip to be able to harness its excessive (IMHO) =
steaming power to make latte-art-quality microfoam.  It makes great =
shots without needing to be as "updosed" as other machines, including =
Silvia. I find its pressure gauge correlates to temp as well.  I love =
being able to set water doses for ristretto and normale, or single and =
doppio, as well as manually overriding them. Also use the hot water tap =
more than I do my electric kettle.
On Mar 1, 2006, at 10:52 =
AM, Coffee Kid wrote:
I throw out this question to the collective wisdom = ofall.   I currently = use a moka pot to make my espresso  But, I = really want to make a realespresso with = the great beans.  I am = not in the moneyper se.  I have been looking at the = Gaggia Espressobut have reservations.  The Sylvia seems a = bitproblematic and = temperamental.  My real = desire is oneof the Quick Mills (Andreja) but = i don't see makingthat purchase for at least = a couple of years.  So = thequestion is:  Buy something cheap now?  Buy somethingin the $500 range down the road and be somewhat = happywith it, or, wait till who know = when (maybe never) toget the dream = machine. Opinions on Gaggia or other cheap machines?  Sylvia orother?  = Quick Mill or other? Thanks for advice.  -Tom Do You Yahoo!?Tired of = spam?  Yahoo! Mail has = the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com homeroastmailing listhttp://li=sts.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroastTo change your personal list settings (digest = options, vacations, unsvbscribes) go to http://=sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings = = = --Apple-Mail-69--276573179--

9) From: Sandy Andina
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Marine-grade brass (non-corroding) vs. Gaggia's aluminum boiler.
On Mar 1, 2006, at 11:40 AM, Paul Sack wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
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Marine-grade brass =
(non-corroding) vs. Gaggia's aluminum boiler.
On Mar 1, =
2006, at 11:40 AM, Paul Sack wrote:

On paper the Silvias = have a little bit bigger boiler and maybe better materials,

= = --Apple-Mail-70--275787144--

10) From: Paul Sack
There's currently an argument in alt.coffee as to whether aluminum 
boilers corrode. I have some aluminum cookware that hasn't corroded one 
bit, but I confess that I don't know the chemistry, and my aluminum 
cookware isn't submersed in water 24 hrs a day. It may have to do with 
the kind of water that goes into the boiler.
Quoting Sandy Andina :
<Snip>

11) From: Barry Luterman
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
If you think Silvia is finicky try a Mazzer grinder. Using the same bean =
one has to adjust the grind daily. The setting that pulls a beautiful =
shot Weds has to be readjusted, using the same beans, on Thurs. to =
deliver the same shot. It seems my first shot of the day is never as =
good as the shots from the day before. But when adjusted correctly. The =
shots are exquisite.

12) From:
Hi Tom:
<Snip>
1st, there is NO substitute for espresso. I know you enjoy your m oka pot brew but it ain't no espresso. Yes, I am an espresso snob.
The Gaggia is a wonderful machine that I believe you would get lonbg term use from as well as the Silva. Either will give you very to to great espresso depending on the beans and the general way you make your java joy!
You do not need to spend 1200+ to get great espresso. Remember who you are having conversations with here and put your mind at ease. This list is a true coffee snob junkie place and I love it.
I bought a used, PID Gaggia from a list member maybe two years ago and it still makes fabulous espresso. Up until a year ago I used a bright red Francis Francis X5 as a travel E maker and it pulled great shots. I would recommed the Gaggia or Silva for years of good use. 
I know folks who have "bought up" and still use their original Gaggia or Silva machines.
Buy one and enjoy really good espresso. The machine will do it's god you just need to learn yours!!
regards,
ginny
<Snip>

13) From: Randolph Wilson
<Snip>
Is this product a definite?  I keep seeing references to it, but 
nothing I felt I could hang my hat on.  I've been planning towards a 
Vivaldi, but if this is on the horizon I'd like to hold off so I 
could consider it as well.
Thanks,
Randy

14) From:
the new machines are always like vaporware...
Some of these so called "hot deals" on eBay are nothing but crap and items people misuse.
Buy a good machine from Tom you can afford today and move up later after your level of control over all the issues of making good espresso are solved. 
What did you learn to drive in?
ginny
<Snip>

15) From: Coffee Kid
Everyone,
   
  Thanks for all the good advice.  I think I am leaning towards the Silvia.  I am perplexed with all the grinder choices.  It sounds like my Zass grinder is not going "cut it" for espresso.  Now it's time to list some junk on ebay to raise the cash!
   
  Thanks again,
   
  Tom- "who is neither Coffee or a Kid" 
   
  beanzebub wrote:
  the new machines are always like vaporware...
Some of these so called "hot deals" on eBay are nothing but crap and items people misuse.
Buy a good machine from Tom you can afford today and move up later after your level of control over all the issues of making good espresso are solved. 
What did you learn to drive in?
ginny
<Snip>---------------------------------
Yahoo! Mail
Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail  makes sharing a breeze. 

16) From: raymanowen
Paul, the Scott man wisely says, "recommend not buying from Tagex.
Its been eight days since I paid for the used Major and they still haven't
even shipped it!!"
Have you looked at their feedback comments and the Imbecilic bidders'
records on their items?
When I decided to get a Mazzer, I connected with  through eBay.
Domenic called me, to find out if I knew what I wanted to do with such a
machine as the Major.
Long story short- he put one out on "Buy it Now" sans doser but added a
chute to grind directly into a filter basket.
"How will you measure the grind batch?- it's so fast, timing the grind is
all but impossible-
"I'll just put 7g in the thing-
"That'll work great. It'll have a new hopper funnel and lid. It's huge, and
while the burrs aren't new, they're in very serviceable condition. Jump on
it when you see it- I modified it and I don't want to eat it. The
description will be clear-
Exactly as advertised, it got here lightning fast. It almost seemed like th=
e
UPS truck left as soon as we rung off the call, but he probably saw the
PayPal clear about a minute later.
Remember what  is for. Do the chain of command thing first, but I
guess you have done that already. If Tagex really has no customer service,
drop the < Feedback> bomb, document everything and file a complaint with
eBay. Item not received!
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
--
"When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the
Wichita WurliTzer

17) From:
Tom:
The Zass is wonderful and will cut it for espresso.
ginny
<Snip>

18) From: Brett Mason
Zass will cut it fine for espresso...  I have several Zasses, a couple
Armin Trossers and a Rocky.  I like them all...  And I have a Silvia
too...
Brett
  Zassman
On 3/1/06, Coffee Kid  wrote:
<Snip>
  I
<Snip>
r
<Snip>
bay
<Snip>
s
<Snip>
--
Regards,
Brett Mason
 HomeRoast
      __]_
   _(( )_  Please don't spill the coffee!

19) From: Derek Bradford
On 3/1/06, Barry Luterman  wrote:
<Snip>
t
<Snip>
I believe this is true for every grinder, once you pass a certain grind
consistency/quality threshold.  I had to adjust daily with my zass, and I
certainly do with my Maximo.  Ambient humidity, age of the beans,
temperature; these all play a role.
--Derek
--
The Uglyroast 3! Coffee Roaster.  ...Now 85% less ugly!http://uglyroast.atspace.com

20) From: Randolph Wilson
<Snip>
Ginny,
I think you might have some of what i said mixed in with the other 
guy's post, this will not be my first machine, it will hopefully be 
my last.  I was just piggybacking on with a question about the dual 
boiler quick mill because I keep seeing rumors about it.  As for 
ebay, no, that wasn't me either.  I had asked Tom if he could special 
order the machine I want, and he made another suggestion which I 
won't go into, but will probably follow up on.
<Snip>
A BMW 2002 with a Miller and Norburn built engine.
Regards,
Randy

21) From: Ed Needham
Gaggia Espresso can make excellent espresso.  No three way valve, but a very 
competent machine for a starter.  A high quality grinder is a must to get 
the most out of the machine, but a $15 Turkish hand grinder works well too, 
as long as you don't mind grinding for 10 minutes between shots.
Silvia has quite a history of success.  As with any espresso machine, you 
need to finesse it a bit to get the most out of the shot.
*********************
Ed Needham
"to absurdity and beyond!"
ed at homeroaster dot com
(include [FRIEND] somewhere in the subject line of any email correspondence)
*********************

22) From: Michael Vanecek
I have a Gaggia Espresso but haven't messed around with it. Thanks for
reminding me - I think it's time to run some water thru that beast...
Cheers,
Mike
--http://www.taroandti.com/http://www.mjv.com/
Ed Needham wrote:
<Snip>

23) From: Woody DeCasere
what is a three way valve? What does it do?
On 3/2/06, Michael Vanecek  wrote:
<Snip>
s
<Snip>
--
"Good night, and Good Coffee"

24) From: Michael Vanecek
Remaining pressure from the shot can be dissipated via a 3-way valve.
With the Gaggia and other less expensive espresso makers, a little time,
a lot of care and some luck is required to remove the portafilter
without the pressure blowing coffee grinds all over the place.
Cheers,
Mike
--http://www.taroandti.com/http://www.mjv.com/
Woody DeCasere wrote:
<Snip>

25) From: Brett Mason
Miss Silvia makes this rather simple... Love her...
Brett
On 3/2/06, Michael Vanecek  wrote:
<Snip>
ribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>
--
Regards,
Brett Mason
 HomeRoast
      __]_
   _(( )_  Please don't spill the coffee!

26) From: mIke mcKoffee
In addition to being able to remove PF immediately after pulling a shot,
3-way valve allows back flush cleaning the grouphead. A feature not to be
lightly discounted for ease of keeping espresso machine clean which of
course yields better shots.
As far as Miss Silvia being "tempermental", yes and no. Yes she's a high
strung Italian Mistress, and as such when properly managed can produce
marvelous results. Just about any sub $1.7k machine is somewhat tempermental
in one way or another. Until you get into a digitally shot temp controlled
dual boiler class machine, entry level currently the Brewtus II.
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.http://www.mdm.livingfreeandclear.com<Snip>

27) From: Les
Robert,
All new Gaskets, shower screen, Portafilter was toast,  new pump, new
drip pan and about 10 hours of elbow grease.
Les
On 3/1/06, Robert Yoder  wrote:
<Snip>
es)
<Snip>

28) From: Hank Perkins
All,
I have been roasting coffee for 10 years or so and don't post here
often.  I am a dedicated drip coffee guy.  But my wife loves her
Lattes.  4-5 years ago I purchased a Gaggia Classic.   I played with
the machine for a few weeks but never got my shots where they needed
to be.
Yesterday the wife asked if I would set it back up and start making
her Lattes (which she has been buying at the local coffee shop).  I
roasted I pound of Liquid Amber that was still in the bottom of the
bean bin.  I spent most of the afternoon making this nasty crap that I
drank about 4 shots.  My Rocky grinder is set to 10.  A double shot
has been weighed out to 14 grams.  The machine is preheated and a
blank or two is run.  My double shots are taking 22-27 seconds.  I ran
both the Liquid Amber and my Sumatra Drip.  Little difference.  the
crema is very light in color and thin.  The coffee is fine for lattee
but I like and espresso but the taste is dominated by thin and bitter
overtones.
Please Help Me!!
Hank
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29) From: michael brown
The only thing i didn't see you mention was descaling the machine.  I'm always amazed at the difference it makes.  I don't realize the subtle changes that happen between descaling until i descale.Oh and putting a package of Grindz through the grinder.  Sounds like you know a lot about the technique and science behind the pulls.If you've already done this, tell us about the roast.How old was the Liquid Amber before your roasted it?Do you remember much about the profile?How long did you rest it?I started an espresso "quest" a couple of years ago, asked similar questions here on the list and kept tweeking until i was pulling great shots at home.Glad i never gave up!
Michael Bb'ham, AL
<Snip>
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30) From: Hank Perkins
Grinder is clean.  I did not descale the machine.  I have some descale
for my drip equipment (Technivorm).  Will that work?  Mix it with
water and run it through?  I have some backflush also, but have no
idea how to use it.
The Liquid Amber is 2 years old.  It rested maybe 4 hours, which I
know is way to short.  the Sumatra is 48 hours old.
On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 7:56 AM, michael brown  wrote:
<Snip>
 always amazed at the difference it makes.  I don't realize the subtle ch=
anges that happen between descaling until i descale.Oh and putting a packag=
e of Grindz through the grinder.  Sounds like you know a lot about the te=
chnique and science behind the pulls.If you've already done this, tell us a=
bout the roast.How old was the Liquid Amber before your roasted it?Do you r=
emember much about the profile?How long did you rest it?I started an espres=
so "quest" a couple of years ago, asked similar questions here on the list =
and kept tweeking until i was pulling great shots at home.Glad i never gave=
 up!
<Snip>
an
<Snip>
mariascoffee.com
<Snip>
fee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
<Snip>
ariascoffee.com
<Snip>
ee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
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31) From: Hank Perkins
Both coffees are roasted to full city.
On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 7:56 AM, michael brown  wrote:
<Snip>
 always amazed at the difference it makes.  I don't realize the subtle ch=
anges that happen between descaling until i descale.Oh and putting a packag=
e of Grindz through the grinder.  Sounds like you know a lot about the te=
chnique and science behind the pulls.If you've already done this, tell us a=
bout the roast.How old was the Liquid Amber before your roasted it?Do you r=
emember much about the profile?How long did you rest it?I started an espres=
so "quest" a couple of years ago, asked similar questions here on the list =
and kept tweeking until i was pulling great shots at home.Glad i never gave=
 up!
<Snip>
an
<Snip>
mariascoffee.com
<Snip>
fee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
<Snip>
ariascoffee.com
<Snip>
ee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
<Snip>
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32) From: Kevin C
The liquid amber is both too old and too fresh, and that will make sense only to a home roaster espresso addict. 2 years is a long time and 4 hours is too short for freshly roasted espresso. 
That's my opinion. 
I second the idea about descale; I just degunked my portafilter and head because the spray pattern was bad and the shots had started tasting bad. Not just off but outright bad. It's sad that I let it get so bad, I need to turn in my coffee snob membership card. 
-kc 
On Aug 29, 2010, at 8:19 AM, Hank Perkins  wrote:
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33) From: Hank Perkins
OK, shower screen clean, clean above the screen, descaled, (I did the
Techinvorm at the same time, it was really nasty) first run of water
through the Gaggia is complete it is re-heating now.  It will nee a
more complete rinse  but then the machine will be clean.
OK, Grinder is clean, Machine is clean.  Can I get close with the beans I h=
ave?
Any suggestions on technique?
Thanks!!
On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 7:56 AM, michael brown  wrote:
<Snip>
 always amazed at the difference it makes.  I don't realize the subtle ch=
anges that happen between descaling until i descale.Oh and putting a packag=
e of Grindz through the grinder.  Sounds like you know a lot about the te=
chnique and science behind the pulls.If you've already done this, tell us a=
bout the roast.How old was the Liquid Amber before your roasted it?Do you r=
emember much about the profile?How long did you rest it?I started an espres=
so "quest" a couple of years ago, asked similar questions here on the list =
and kept tweeking until i was pulling great shots at home.Glad i never gave=
 up!
<Snip>
an
<Snip>
mariascoffee.com
<Snip>
fee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
<Snip>
ariascoffee.com
<Snip>
ee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
<Snip>
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34) From: Scott Miller
How long after you hit the brew switch before the elixir starts to
drip is another thing to consider. You definitely want to see what
happens once the Liquid Amber has rested 3-4 days, and it may be that
2 year beans are a bit long in the tooth.
In general, I recall that with my Gaggia Coffee DeLuxe, the best shots
came when there was about a 4-5 second delay before espresso started
to drip. With a properly dosed, distributed & tamped double (14 g)
basket I would get about 1.75 oz shot before blonding happened.
Including the 4-5 second delay, total brew time was in the 26-30
second brew time.
Keep working at it! The Gaggia can produce decent espresso for lattes
and do a good job texturing the milk.
The SM espresso pages are good starting resource, too:http://www.sweetmarias.com/espresso-general1.phpcheers,
Scott
On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 9:23 AM, Hank Perkins  wrote:
<Snip>
m always amazed at the difference it makes.  I don't realize the subtle c=
hanges that happen between descaling until i descale.Oh and putting a packa=
ge of Grindz through the grinder.  Sounds like you know a lot about the t=
echnique and science behind the pulls.If you've already done this, tell us =
about the roast.How old was the Liquid Amber before your roasted it?Do you =
remember much about the profile?How long did you rest it?I started an espre=
sso "quest" a couple of years ago, asked similar questions here on the list=
 and kept tweeking until i was pulling great shots at home.Glad i never gav=
e up!
<Snip>
ran
<Snip>
tmariascoffee.com
<Snip>
ffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
<Snip>
mariascoffee.com
<Snip>
fee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
<Snip>
ariascoffee.com
<Snip>
ee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
<Snip>
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35) From: Peter Louton
Hi Hank,
I don't have your machine, but I do have a Rocky and for my espessos, I'm usually between 6-8.  I'd say let the beans rest for 4 days.  
Peter
-- Sent from my Palm Pre
On Aug 29, 2010 10:52, Hank Perkins <hankperkins> wrote: 
OK, shower screen clean, clean above the screen, descaled, (I did the
Techinvorm at the same time, it was really nasty) first run of water
through the Gaggia is complete it is re-heating now.  It will nee a
more complete rinse  but then the machine will be clean.
OK, Grinder is clean, Machine is clean.  Can I get close with the beans I have?
Any suggestions on technique?
Thanks!!
On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 7:56 AM, michael brown <disracer> wrote:
>
> The only thing i didn't see you mention was descaling the machine.  I'm always amazed at the difference it makes.  I don't realize the subtle changes that happen between descaling until i descale.Oh and putting a package of Grindz through the grinder.  Sounds like you know a lot about the technique and science behind the pulls.If you've already done this, tell us about the roast.How old was the Liquid Amber before your roasted it?Do you remember much about the profile?How long did you rest it?I started an espresso "quest" a couple of years ago, asked similar questions here on the list and kept tweeking until i was pulling great shots at home.Glad i never gave up!
> Michael Bb'ham, AL
>
>> Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 07:34:02 -0500
>> From: hankperkins
>> To: homeroast
>> Subject: [Homeroast] Making Espresso
>>
>> All,
>>
>> I have been roasting coffee for 10 years or so and don't post here
>> often.  I am a dedicated drip coffee guy.  But my wife loves her
>> Lattes.  4-5 years ago I purchased a Gaggia Classic.   I played with
>> the machine for a few weeks but never got my shots where they needed
>> to be.
>>
>> Yesterday the wife asked if I would set it back up and start making
>> her Lattes (which she has been buying at the local coffee shop).  I
>> roasted I pound of Liquid Amber that was still in the bottom of the
>> bean bin.  I spent most of the afternoon making this nasty crap that I
>> drank about 4 shots.  My Rocky grinder is set to 10.  A double shot
>> has been weighed out to 14 grams.  The machine is preheated and a
>> blank or two is run.  My double shots are taking 22-27 seconds.  I ran
>> both the Liquid Amber and my Sumatra Drip.  Little difference.  the
>> crema is very light in color and thin.  The coffee is fine for lattee
>> but I like and espresso but the taste is dominated by thin and bitter
>> overtones.
>>
>> Please Help Me!!
>>
>> Hank
>>
>>
>> Homeroast mailing list
>> Homeroast
>>http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20>">http://host.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmariascoffee.com>> Homeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20>
>
> Homeroast mailing list
> Homeroast
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36) From: Hank Perkins
Well, all the work made a big difference.  Creama is still to light
but ALL the bitterness is gone.  WOW!!
I may become an espresso guy yet!!  This was the best espresso I have
every tasted.
I will bring the Rocky down two marks to 8 and try again.
I am pumped, I didn't think espresso would taste like this, or that I
just didn't have the touch.
THANKS GUYS, You have come through again.
On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 10:02 AM, Scott Miller  wrote:
<Snip>
te:
<Snip>
'm always amazed at the difference it makes.  I don't realize the subtle =
changes that happen between descaling until i descale.Oh and putting a pack=
age of Grindz through the grinder.  Sounds like you know a lot about the =
technique and science behind the pulls.If you've already done this, tell us=
 about the roast.How old was the Liquid Amber before your roasted it?Do you=
 remember much about the profile?How long did you rest it?I started an espr=
esso "quest" a couple of years ago, asked similar questions here on the lis=
t and kept tweeking until i was pulling great shots at home.Glad i never ga=
ve up!
<Snip>
th
<Snip>
 I
<Snip>
 ran
<Snip>
etmariascoffee.com
<Snip>
offee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
<Snip>
tmariascoffee.com
<Snip>
ffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
<Snip>
mariascoffee.com
<Snip>
fee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
<Snip>
ariascoffee.com
<Snip>
ee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://host.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmar=iascoffee.com
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37) From: Hank Perkins
Made the wife a Latte.  She stated that the coffee shop latte has 10%
of the flavor that mine did.  I told her the espresso should get
better.  She was amazed.
THANKS THANKS THANKS
On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 10:18 AM, Hank Perkins  wrot=
e:
<Snip>
e:
<Snip>
ote:
<Snip>
I'm always amazed at the difference it makes.  I don't realize the subtle=
 changes that happen between descaling until i descale.Oh and putting a pac=
kage of Grindz through the grinder.  Sounds like you know a lot about the=
 technique and science behind the pulls.If you've already done this, tell u=
s about the roast.How old was the Liquid Amber before your roasted it?Do yo=
u remember much about the profile?How long did you rest it?I started an esp=
resso "quest" a couple of years ago, asked similar questions here on the li=
st and kept tweeking until i was pulling great shots at home.Glad i never g=
ave up!
<Snip>
ith
<Snip>
t I
<Snip>
ot
<Snip>
I ran
<Snip>
he
<Snip>
ee
<Snip>
eetmariascoffee.com
<Snip>
coffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
<Snip>
etmariascoffee.com
<Snip>
offee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
<Snip>
tmariascoffee.com
<Snip>
ffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
<Snip>
mariascoffee.com
<Snip>
fee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://host.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmar=iascoffee.com
Homeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee=.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820

38) From: Yakster
That's great news, Hank.  When I started with a thrift store DeLonghi, I did
a lot of reading of websites and coffee forums (Coffee Geek and
Home-Barista) and after picking up a good hand grinder was able to finally
get drinkable espresso by temperature surfing.  Randy Glass' site
www.espressomyespresso.com helped me get started.  Also, I've heard that
there's a Gaggia Yahoo! Groups site, but since I didn't have a Gaggia, I
didn't check it out... it's athttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/gaggia/.Besides having a good grind and proper temperature, one of the biggest
hurdles to good espresso should be no problem to you, fresh beans.  Since I
started as a home roaster coming from drip coffee, I had the fresh coffee
down pat, like you do.  It was only later when I had some older commercially
roasted beans that I even experienced the lack of crema and problems pulling
a good shot with stale coffee.  This gives you a leg up on your way.  With
beans that are just roasted, sometimes you'll have problems with too much
outgassing during the extraction, but grinding your coffee fifteen or so
minutes before you pull the shot can be quite a big help for those times
when you don't have anything rested.
Enjoy,
-Chris
On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 9:12 AM, Hank Perkins  wrote:
<Snip>
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39) From: David Morrow
Hank,
I'm glad to hear that you are back on track.  Let me second the
recommendation to check out the Yahoo Gaggia Users Group.  There are lots of
files showing how to maintain your Classic, and great tips on the message
board to improve your shots.  You should definitely be backflushing and
descaling periodically.  You might be interested in adjusting your brew
pressure and temperature surfing or even installing a PID.
You can find it athttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/Gaggia/

40) From: Hank Perkins
What a great resource.  It has rained here most of the day and I have
read many of the articles and posts.  I need to purchase a blind cup
to backflush my machine.
Installing a PID is a possibility.  I just need to do more research.
Thanks!!!
On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 3:32 PM, David Morrow  wrote:
<Snip>
ts of
<Snip>
e:
<Snip>
 I'm
<Snip>
t the
<Snip>
us
<Snip>
he
<Snip>
er
<Snip>
with
<Snip>
at I
<Snip>
hot
<Snip>
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<Snip>
the
<Snip>
tee
<Snip>
ari
<Snip>
ari
<Snip>
ari
<Snip>
ari
<Snip>
ari
<Snip>
ariascoffee.com
<Snip>
ee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://host.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmar=iascoffee.com
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41) From: Dennis Parham
Hank, are you sure your machine has a 3 way Valve? Some if the gaggias do and some do not... Make sure before adding a blind basket ... Lol 
Dennis Parham Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 29, 2010, at 9:00 PM, Hank Perkins  wrote:
<Snip>
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42) From: Hank Perkins
OK, how do I determine this?
On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 8:17 PM, Dennis Parham  wrote:
<Snip>
 and some do not... Make sure before adding a blind basket ... Lol
<Snip>
lots of
<Snip>
ge
<Snip>
nd
<Snip>
ew
<Snip>
ote:
<Snip>
 I'm
<Snip>
out the
<Snip>
l us
<Snip>
you
<Snip>
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<Snip>
ever
<Snip>
er
<Snip>
d with
<Snip>
ed
<Snip>
 I
<Snip>
that I
<Snip>
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<Snip>
 I ran
<Snip>
 the
<Snip>
attee
<Snip>
ter
<Snip>
tmari
<Snip>
tmari
<Snip>
tmari
<Snip>
tmari
<Snip>
tmari
<Snip>
tmariascoffee.com
<Snip>
ffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
<Snip>
mariascoffee.com
<Snip>
fee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
<Snip>
ariascoffee.com
<Snip>
ee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
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43) From: David Morrow
Hank,
If it's really a Classic, it has a 3-way valve.  You can tell by the little
squirt of coffee-like liquid that comes out of the vertical tube into the
drip tray as you end the shot.
On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 9:25 PM, Hank Perkins  wrote:
<Snip>
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44) From: michael brown
I've enjoyed following this Scott.  Sounds a lot like my espresso quest that the list helped me with a while back.Keep exploring and tweeking (ha, no pun intended) and be sure to report your findings, we love this kinda stuff.
Michael B
b'ham, AL
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