HomeRoast Digest


Topic: $tarbucks (102 msgs / 3445 lines)
1) From: National Prison & Sentencing Consultants, Inc.
I needed a new coffee brewer and have been doing some research. (I thank the
many of you that have offered suggestions.)  In the meantime, the other day
I was having lunch next to a $tarbucks and decided to check out their coffee
brewers.  I looked at their 10 and 12 cup brewers and asked the "girl behind
the counter" (I can't refer to them as Baristas) if she new what the brew
water temperature was.  She didn't but said she would check, after of course
informing me that they are great machines and "no one complains" about how
hot the coffee is.  I explained that I cared more about how hot the water
was going into the filter basket rather than how hot the coffee was coming
out. I told her that I needed in to be 195+ degrees.  A minute or so later,
her manager rather smugly informed me that it was 180 and that "No machine
on the market heats the water any higher." You know the look---the one where
I am supposed to feel like a Neanderthal who should be blessed to hear her
gifted and profound words about coffee.  Recognizing that I owned ties that
are older than this manager, I wondered if it paid to correct her.  I wasn't
going to until she told me that she just finishing "researching" every
brewer available and that this is the "hottest" one on the market. As I
began to speak, she interrupted and said, "Sir these are the best and
hottest brewers on the market--otherwise we wouldn't be selling them. Would
you like one" I then said that I was glad she wasn't paid for her research
skills, salesmanship skills and hoped she new how to make coffee as she
certainly didn't know her brewers. 
These folk are interesting people at $tarbucks.

2) From: Woody DeCasere
ah the elite all knowing starbucks managers, very few people that i have
found to work at a starbucks really knows anything about what they are
doing, coffee in general or equipment, it is best to only go to a starbucks
in dire need when the only other option is McD's coffee and you are miles
from home. Otherwise turn tail and run!!
On 3/1/06, National Prison & Sentencing Consultants, Inc. <
info> wrote:
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"Good night, and Good Coffee"

3) From: Turbosimba
I agree. Not only that, but the independent local shop  NEEDS our  business 
in order to survive against the giant Starubucks octopus.  Their  coffee will 
usually be better and their knowledge, friendliness and skill will  tower over 
the average Starbucks  *barista.*
 
Out here in Calif. Peets is trying to give Starbucks a run for its  money.   
Peets emphasizes freshness as well as great skill in their  roasts.  Although 
they only roast continental styles, their cappuccinos,  lattes, etc. really 
taste good with these darker roasts.
 
I stumbled into a very nice looking coffee house in  ( of all places )  
Olympia Washington last year. I think it is called Cafe Vita. They roast in  
Seattle, but have several outlets in the western part of the state. I was served  
the BEST machiatto I've ever had. It was a work of art, the way the foam was  
teased into a floral type design.  The great thing, though, was the taste.  I 
asked the barista why this was so superior, and she told me pure and simple,  it 
was the beans and the style of roasting her company did. 
 
So, once again, let's patronize these local, out of the way, small places.  
It is an adventure which sometimes will be the most memorable coffee 
experiences  of our lives. 

4) From: joe rohrer
Check out the following link
www.illwillpress.com
Under the video section there are 2 hilarious spoofs about StarSchmucks.
Warning!  this site is not for the timid or weak of heart and definitely not 
safe for work!
<Snip>

5) From: David B. Westebbe
"I then said that I was glad she wasn't paid for her research skills,
salesmanship skills and hoped she new how to make coffee as she certainly
didn't know her brewers."
Wow.  That took guts.  But she deserved it!

6) From: Sandy Andina
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In their defense, I used a Barista Aroma for years (still keep it  
around so I can brew lots and lots of coffee for parties with it and  
the Technivorm in tandem). It makes very, very good coffee when you  
serve it w/in a couple of hrs.  after brewing and preheat the thermal  
carafe; its carafe is a bit bigger (Starbie's measures "cups" as 5  
oz., not 4) and you can remove the reservoir and take it to the sink  
or water dispenser to fill. Until last month, in fact, it was the  
best electric drip brewer I'd ever used. But the Technivorm I now  
have makes KILLER coffee that stays hotter and palatable for hours  
longer.
On Mar 1, 2006, at 12:27 PM, Woody DeCasere wrote:
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Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
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In their defense, I used a =
Barista Aroma for years (still keep it around so I can brew lots and =
lots of coffee for parties with it and the Technivorm in tandem). It =
makes very, very good coffee when you serve it w/in a couple of hrs.  =
after brewing and preheat the thermal carafe; its carafe is a bit bigger =
(Starbie's measures "cups" as 5 oz., not 4) and you can remove the =
reservoir and take it to the sink or water dispenser to fill. Until last =
month, in fact, it was the best electric drip brewer I'd ever used. But =
the Technivorm I now have makes KILLER coffee that stays hotter and =
palatable for hours longer.  
On Mar 1, 2006, at 12:27 =
PM, Woody DeCasere wrote:
ah the = elite all knowing starbucks managers, very few people that i have found = to work at a starbucks really knows anything about what they are doing, = coffee in general or equipment, it is best to only go to a starbucks in = dire need when the only other option is McD's coffee and you are miles = from home. Otherwise turn tail and run!! On 3/1/06, National = Prison & Sentencing Consultants, Inc. <info= ultants.com > wrote:I needed a new coffee brewer and have been = doing some research. (I thank the many of you that have offered = suggestions.)  In the meantime, the other day I was having lunch = next to a $tarbucks and decided to check out their coffee brewers.  = I looked at their 10 and 12 cup brewers and asked the "girl behind = the counter" (I can't refer to them as Baristas) if she new what the = brew water temperature was.  She didn't but said she would check, = after of course informing me that they are great machines and "no one = complains" about how hot the coffee is.  I explained that I = cared more about how hot the water was going into the filter basket = rather than how hot the coffee was coming out. I told her that I = needed in to be 195+ degrees.  A minute or so later, her manager = rather smugly informed me that it was 180 and that "No machine on the = market heats the water any higher." You know the look---the one = where I am supposed to feel like a Neanderthal who should be blessed = to hear her gifted and profound words about coffee.  Recognizing = that I owned ties that are older than this manager, I wondered if it = paid to correct her.  I wasn't going to until she told me that = she just finishing "researching" every brewer available and that = this is the "hottest" one on the market. As I began to speak, she = interrupted and said, "Sir these are the best and hottest brewers on = the market--otherwise we wouldn't be selling them. Would you like = one" I then said that I was glad she wasn't paid for her = research skills, salesmanship skills and hoped she new how to make = coffee as she certainly didn't know her brewers. These folk = are interesting people at $tarbucks. -----Original = Message----- From: homeroast-admin= s.sweetmarias.com [mailto:homeroast-admin= s.sweetmarias.com ] On Behalf Of Rick Copple Sent: Tuesday, = February 28, 2006 9:34 PM To: homeroast= s.com Subject: Re: +Aged Sumatra and expansion of beans I = roasted this bean just yesterday as well. Since I roast in a wok, = I didn't have expansion problems. They did seem to expand some, maybe = more than usual. I did have one question though. Tom on his = description of this bean says that they roast to a "golden brown" I = think was his description. Since he recommends FC+ or Vienna, I'm = assuming it looks "golden brown" at that roast level instead of the = usual darker blackish color. But I didn't see any notes especially = mentioning that these roast up differently and not to depend on the = color of the bean. So I thought I would just make sure I'm = reading it right. I roasted and could hear second crack going, even = though the beans looked closer to a C+ roast as far as color. The = crack said I was in FC+, maybe even going into Vienna. The color says = I have C+. Is it everyone's experience that this bean looks like a = lighter color at the right roast level and you shouldn't go by = color? Thanks. -- Rick Copple Marble Falls, = TX http://blog.copple.us/?secti=onid=5 = homeroast mailing list http://li=sts.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast To change your = personal list settings (digest options, vacations, unsvbscribes) go = to http://=sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings= homeroast mailing = list http://li=sts.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast To change your = personal list settings (digest options, vacations, unsvbscribes) go to = http://=sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings
-- "Good night, and Good = Coffee" = --Apple-Mail-71--275407393--

7) From: Matthew Price
On 3/1/06, Turbosimba  wrote:
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Except that in my experience a Starbucks is far more likely to have
drinkable brewed coffee than some random independant.  At least
Starbucks has an opinion about what coffee should be: charred.  The
independants I've visited were always generic and weak.
If it is a choice between Starbucks and an unknown indepentant, I'll
pick the Starbucks everytime.  The only time I really face a choice is
if I am facing a Starbucks and a Dunkin' Donuts.  Usually DD wins.
Matthew

8) From: Wesley Simon
I'll drive past 3 starbucks to go to one local shop.  In fact,  the only
coffee shop I'll frequent in Wichita, Kansas is Java Villa.  They don't
roast, but they do pull their own shots.  They have a giant lever machine, =
I
can't remember what brand.  I will only order a latte' when out.
I've found myself in a starbucks occasionally, but they seem worse each tim=
e
I visit.  Unless I'm pressed for time, I'll drive home for coffee.
Yes, the local shops need our support.
I don't intend to start a debate here, but I have been shopping as many
locally owned places as possible these days.  Perhaps the extra cost is
cheaper in the long run if mine and my neighbor's jobs stay locally too.  I
read about a study that says three times as much money stays in the state b=
y
patronizing locally owned establishments vs. out of state owned
establishments.  I also notice that locally owned businesses usually have
employees that care a little more about the customer.
On 3/1/06, Matthew Price  wrote:
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9) From: Mike Chester
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
  In their defense, I used a Barista Aroma for years (still keep it =
around so I can brew lots and lots of coffee for parties with it and the =
Technivorm in tandem). It makes very, very good coffee when you serve it =
w/in a couple of hrs.  after brewing and preheat the thermal carafe; its =
carafe is a bit bigger (Starbie's measures "cups" as 5 oz., not 4) and =
you can remove the reservoir and take it to the sink or water dispenser =
to fill. Until last month, in fact, it was the best electric drip brewer =
I'd ever used. But the Technivorm I now have makes KILLER coffee that =
stays hotter and palatable for hours longer.  
  If someone is looking for a 10 Cup BA, I have a new one in the box =
that I will sell reasonably.  Contact me off-list if interested.
  Mike

10) From: National Prison & Sentencing Consultants, Inc.
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
They might very well be great machines---but I will never know as I don't
care for the attitude of $tarbucks staff and their air of superiority
particularly when most of these folks are two checks away from homelessness,
spent 3 days in "training," and know little about their own business.  
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Mike Chester
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 3:22 PM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +RE: $tarbucks
In their defense, I used a Barista Aroma for years (still keep it around so
I can brew lots and lots of coffee for parties with it and the Technivorm in
tandem). It makes very, very good coffee when you serve it w/in a couple of
hrs.  after brewing and preheat the thermal carafe; its carafe is a bit
bigger (Starbie's measures "cups" as 5 oz., not 4) and you can remove the
reservoir and take it to the sink or water dispenser to fill. Until last
month, in fact, it was the best electric drip brewer I'd ever used. But the
Technivorm I now have makes KILLER coffee that stays hotter and palatable
for hours longer.  
If someone is looking for a 10 Cup BA, I have a new one in the box that I
will sell reasonably.  Contact me off-list if interested.
Mike

11) From: Justin Marquez
On 3/1/06, Sandy Andina  wrote:
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The best drip machine I have ever had is the Melitta Clarity.  Brew temp
always makes it and the separate warmer heater is set right to hold the
coffee for a long time.
Having said all that, I guess I also lucked out with our under-counter B&D
drip pot in our RV.  I have not measured the temp, but it brews very nicely
and into a thermos pot.
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (Snyder, TX)http://www.justinandlinda.com

12) From: Mark J Bergh
Oh, MY!  THAT will do for today's funnies!
I am still ROTFLMAO...............
You gotta check out "So, I said to my doctor"
The "Small, Medium & Large" is pretty funny too, especially the end where he
says "You can stick a VENTI razor up your #$*@, you tall green moron!" (not
PC, I understand).
Thanks for the link, that was worth a visit. 
Mark

13) From: Brett Mason
I think your assessment may be slightly off.  These poor kids took a
job so in coffee rather than in burgers, and now they think they have
a career.  That they are now managers indicates their drive.  I think
they are just amateur, not really bad, just unlearned.  Perhaps
nothing is more dificult than dealing with limited education.  But
hard to blame them, they seem to be trying.
Now the regional manager or territory manager whose job is to chase
out the competition - him I would blame...
Brett
On 3/1/06, National Prison & Sentencing Consultants, Inc.
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--
Regards,
Brett Mason
 HomeRoast
      __]_
   _(( )_  Please don't spill the coffee!

14) From: National Prison & Sentencing Consultants, Inc.
I have to agree, in part, at least re: the unlearned and I am glad they have
a job.  What I don't like is the condescending, unprofessional, ill
conceived sense of superiority by some kid that is convinced as a result of
a three day "training" program, that they know more about coffee and, as I
have heard, "expresso" than anyone---and I mean anyone----that doesn't wear
a black apron. Frankly, the attitude is so pervasive that I am convinced it
is part of some corporate, ingrained philosophy.
As to my original post, the point remains the same:  The woman spoke as an
authority, claiming to have done research; made a statement of "fact" and
frankly was dead wrong.  At best, she was mistaken.  At worst, she lied.
John B. Webster
Managing Director
National Prison & Sentencing Consultants, Inc.
310 Bourne Avenue
East Providence, RI 02916
401-694-1294
Los Angeles  323-924-5154
www.nationalprisonconsultants.com
info

15) From: TERRY TITSWORTH
I used to be told, "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, in the
wrong hands."
TerryT

16) From: National Prison Consultants
I have to agree, in part, at least re: the unlearned and I am glad they have
a job.  What I don't like is the condescending, unprofessional, ill
conceived sense of superiority by some kid that is convinced as a result of
a three day "training" program, that they know more about coffee and, as I
have heard, "expresso" than anyone---and I mean anyone----that doesn't wear
a black apron. Frankly, the attitude is so pervasive that I am convinced it
is part of some corporate, ingrained philosophy.
As to my original post, the point remains the same:  The woman spoke as an
authority, claiming to have done research; made a statement of "fact" and
frankly was dead wrong.  At best, she was mistaken.  At worst, she lied.
John Webster

17) From: Brent - SC/TO Roasting
No one in customer service should be condescending or behave as if
they have some innate gift.  But that doesn't seem to stop them.  ;)
However, I would bet that the training the *$ baristas get makes them
better informed than 90% of the folks they encounter in their stores. 
Not that they have 90% more knowledge - just more knowledge than 90%
of the folks that come in the store.
Many of us swear off the large retail chains, thereby leaving coffee
education in the hands of the less-than-optimally educated about
coffee.
Heck, when I started sharing homeroasted with folks, many people
didn't know how coffee "was made".  "Really?  You roast them?" was not
uncommon to hear.  And they're all pretty bright people.  Heck, before
homeroasting I thought the countries that sold us the beans did the
roasting and shipped exported them that way.  I may not be the
brightest bean in the bag, but I'll bet I'm not alone.
Brent
On 3/1/06, National Prison Consultants
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18) From: Woody DeCasere
i will say the only thing they make even decent anymore are thier espresso
drinks, since it's all automatic, i know it's not a God shot or anything
(never had one) but they are decent, i can drink thier cap's and an
occasional Mocha when i;m in the mood, but thier coffee is awful, and the
straight espresso or macchiatos are too bitter for my tastes, possibly the
coffee is too old??
On 3/1/06, Brent - SC/TO Roasting  wrote:
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"Good night, and Good Coffee"

19) From:
John:
I missed your original post, hence my late reply. I have a friend who works around the corner at a local charbucks. We met talking coffee one day at the library. At any rate I have taught her how to roast and she stops by about every 10 days to use my HotTop.
We had a talk one day about the baristas at charbucks.
There is only ONE COFFEE, ONE COFFEE DRINK, ONE ROASTER IN THE WORLD AND YOU ONLY SELL WHAT THEY HAVE AND IT IS THE BEST.
If a "shopper" comes by and you are not bs'ing about the joy's of charbucks you lose you 10 buck and hour job.
These corporate guys are serious that what they sell is presented to the public as THE ONLY in the world. Since most of these men and women have never seen a real espresso machine let alone a green bean they believe!!
ginny
I still have ideas for you
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20) From: b cook
Absolutely.  I've been known to occasionally stop by there (once a year or
less) simply to see if things have gotten better.  I usually just get a
regular coffee.  It's always putrid.  I don't know why I choose to torture
myself once a year like that but I just can't fathom that some people are
paying that much for this crap they call coffee on a daily basis.  Honestly=
,
the stuff barely resembles coffee to me.
brad
On 3/1/06, Wesley Simon  wrote:
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21) From: Aaron
But brett,  does one need to supersize that liberal arts degree for 
starbucks management positions, or can a 'vente' sized one work for the 
coffee shop? LOL.   Sadly 'management' for places like that does not 
necessarily mean intelligence, or even a clue, but merely someone who 
stuck around longer than 6 months so got promoted before the place lost 
everyone to better paying jobs.   Starbucks, contrary to what they like 
to think of themselves as, is just another 'fast food industry' place, 
like mcdonalds, arbys, booger fling, wendys, or any of the, dare I say 
'upper ..er class' chains, applebees, TGI fridays, etc etc etc... It all 
boils down to fast food basically.  Low to low moderately low quality 
swill, that they advertise as gods gift to mankind, mass produced and 
sold to the public at overinflated prices so they feel privelaged that 
they were 'allowed' to be ripped off by such an esteemed dump.
It's not so much they don't know any better, but the attitudes there, 
look at the 'yuppie' crowd that the place aims to attract,  snotty rude 
is their trademark... however thats a typical 'kids' attitude towards 
anything really.  They know everything, can solve the worlds problems in 
a minute and us old people are just Soooo stupid, how the hell did we 
even survive this long without them keeping us safe??  Also, not too 
many 16 to 20ish year olds have their eyes set on a 'career' and are 
generally just happy to have a 'job'. and many are still not quite sure 
yet really what they want to do for a living so arent really putting 
their nose towards learning to 'be all that they can be' either or 
really concerned with keeping the job they have as Fat Tuesdays is still 
hiring too.  Just ask them, they will tell you they have a job, not a 
career there.
A career in starbucks, not very 'shoot for the stars' orientated.  On 
that though, I am sure that the kid just starting out at McDonalds 
thinks the same thing, wow, I can move up to assistant helper to the 
managers special night assistant special helper position right after I 
get my french fry tag on my name tag then ill be classified as mediocre 
lower, almost middle but not quite since im not really the manager.. 
management.  Check this persons motivation, and 'attitude' towards this 
Mcdonalds.. or starbucks.. after he's been there for 4 to 6 months.
Soon these kids either prove themselves to be unmotivated slugs, and 
remain 'fast food consultants' for a majority of their lives, moving 
from place to place as they lose job after job due to reliability 
issues,  or they learn some job skills, social interaction, show they 
got what it takes and are reliable, and quickly move up to better paying 
jobs with benefits, etc...  Starbucks, McDonalds, you name it, is a 
'starter' job where most people with little to no training, get their 
feet wet in the real world of a paying job, but since they get paid so 
little in those positions, as soon as they are able to do something 
better, ie pays more, they quickly move on.  That's why they are called 
McJobs, a dime a dozen, no skill required.
This is the nature of that industry so with that, I say you will be hard 
pressed to find a 'decent' person working in a place like that, or if 
you do find one, they won't be there for long as they will quickly find 
out that someone who is semi skilled, as they have become,  will make a 
lot more money at other places.  That leaves you with either, the slugs, 
or the inexperienced looking to learn what they can to move on as 
quickly as they can.
Oddly enough though, if one wants to pursue a career in the food 
industry, the mcdonalds would actually be an easier start id think as 
there are many more openings for 'cooks' , 'chefs', 'culinary artists', 
on the ladder up, than there are for baristas.  and having actual 
experience under their belt IS a plus.   Now for the folks who HAVE 
taken the time to learn their carreer and have gone to schools, culinary 
institutes etc, they can command a premium for their truly honed 
talents.  I see help wanted ad's all the time for cooks, chefs, some 
paying some really respectable $$$ in the really fancy schmoozy 
places.... I don't see many ads looking for 'baristas'.... except for 
the new starbucks opening up
.
....Starbucks..   They think they are high priced talent.... but they 
are just high priced... afterall,  not everybody gets to be an astronaut.
Aaron

22) From: National Prison Consultants
Aaron, that was a great piece; well thought out and entertaining. Thank you
much.  And do you know my son?   I think you described him pretty well
.......
John B. Webster
Managing Director
National Prison & Sentencing Consultants, Inc.
310 Bourne Avenue
East Providence, RI 02916
401-694-1294
Los Angeles  323-924-5154
www.nationalprisonconsultants.com
info

23) From: Sandy Andina
Didn't they used to offer health insurance and stock options back  
before they brought in those superautos that any teenage burger- 
flipper could operate?
Oh, and the "venti" (Italian for 20) was introduced first with the  
iced drinks when customers complained that the 16-oz. grande was too  
small to quench their thirst.
On Mar 1, 2006, at 4:43 PM, Aaron wrote:
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Sandy
www.sandyandina.com

24) From: Paul Goelz
At 05:43 PM 3/1/2006, you wrote:
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On balance.......
I don't know about the Starbucks around you but the ones around here 
are anything but snotty and yuppie.  The people are friendly and 
genuinely interested in what they do.  They bend over backwards to 
make sure their customers are satisfied with what they get.  Mention 
anything that is not satisfactory and more likely than not you'll end 
up with a coupon for a free drink the next time.  They also take the 
time to try to get to know the regulars.  In my experience, their 
espresso / milk drinks are decent but not perfect.  Like most of us 
here, I think their regular coffee is truly awful and won't drink it 
ever.  But that is related to the roast, not the local 
personnel.  They seem well trained and when I have gotten into 
espresso discussions they seem to be well versed in adjusting grind 
and tamp over the course of the day.  Granted, that was maybe six 
months ago.... not sure how much latitude they have with the more 
automated machines.
I am not a Starbucks employee and I don't like everything I get 
there.  But I am willing to give them credit for doing well where 
they in fact do.  And I also give them credit for raising coffee 
awareness in general.
At home, I drink homeroast and consider it the best coffee / espresso 
around.... better than Starbucks by a goodly margin.  But if I am not 
at home, I appreciate having a Starbucks nearby.  Their espresso is 
light years better than the other chain in the area.... Caribou.
Paul
Paul Goelz
Rochester Hills, MI
paul at pgoelz dot comhttp://www.pgoelz.com

25) From: Brett Mason
I would bet over 90% of the *$ customers would use this lady's advice,
and appreciate.  They would even like the coffee as a result...
Still, you are preserving CSA points by holding the high standard. 
Just a shame only a few appreciate your standard...
Oh, and for what it is worth, imagine the lady 20 years from now,
finally gointg out on her own, and discovering fresh roasted and
properly brewed.  She just may remember your words then...
Brett
  Zassin - which you can't do at *$
On 3/1/06, National Prison Consultants
 wrote:
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ribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>
--
Regards,
Brett Mason
 HomeRoast
      __]_
   _(( )_  Please don't spill the coffee!

26) From: Gene Smith
<Snip>
Childhood memory: the folks who lived behind us in fabulous Hitchcock, 
Texas (pop. around about a thousand then) were amazed to see cranberry 
sauce being made for a holiday dinner.  They thought it only "came in 
cans."
Gene Smith
who suspects not much has changed, really...

27) From: National Prison Consultants
Childhood memory: the folks who lived behind us in fabulous Hitchcock, 
Texas (pop. around about a thousand then) were amazed to see cranberry 
sauce being made for a holiday dinner.  They thought it only "came in 
cans."
YOU MEAN IY DOESN'T COME IN CANS???????????
John B. Webster
Managing Director
National Prison & Sentencing Consultants, Inc.
310 Bourne Avenue
East Providence, RI 02916
401-694-1294
Los Angeles  323-924-5154
www.nationalprisonconsultants.com
info

28) From: Aaron
Sandy im not sure about the insurance and stock options but their main 
downfall was....  the age group .vs. their pay
we can scream and defend and make excuses for them all we want but... 98 
percent of teenagers are too immature to really take a job or anything 
for that matter...really serious, you tell them, do your job or lose it, 
they give you a stupid (not retarded) look and put their earpiece back 
in and go back to listening to greenday.  Folks who would do a better 
job, were a bit older / more mature, however,  also tended to be a bit 
more living on their own (independent) / and in many cases, a bit more 
married (has REAL responsibilities now).
they weren't getting this older / more mature crowd either because, they 
tended to be  living on their own now, possibly married, and while stock 
options and health insurance are great perks, they do NOT pay the rent, 
buy food, or put gas in the car, feed the kid etc... so the $6.00 an 
hour or $10 is it now? simply wasn't attracting them.
This leaves them with the current 'mindset' of folks we see there.  Kids 
looking for some party money, who don't even have plans for the weekend 
yet, let alone a month, or a lifetime down the road.... underachievers 
who's greatest ambition is to live with mommy and daddy until they are 
35 or 40 and play video games all day, snotty/arrogant daddy's little 
princess' who took a job because ... doing that working ... whatever... 
thing... yanno??......seemed like it might be cool and starbucks is a 
great way to meet friends to hang out with and talk about the latest 
band, or dress, or who is going to win next on american idol.
as a last minute comment before I send this off,  someone mentions on 
the list that the starbucks by them the people were very friendly etc.  
Just out of curiosity where do you live?  no i dont need a street 
address but wondering if were talking big city .vs. smaller burbs, and 
how close to the next starbucks from that one?  Im not saying you are 
wrong, you might have found one where they do actually treat you a step 
above plankton because you dared to ask a ? or didn't know they were the 
all knowing, but if you did, from the ones that I have seen, you found 
the exception to the rule and a good one at that.
Aaron

29) From: Gene Smith
<Snip>
I have never been treated badly in any Starbucks in the Houston area. 
Occasional cluelessness?...yes.  Intentional discourtesy?...never.  Usual 
response to my saying that I roast myself?...interest.
This may be more representative of Houston than Starbucks, but they are 
generally pretty pleasant down here.
Gene Smith
who doesn't go to Starbucks all *that* much, but occasionally does darken 
their door

30) From: Zara Haimo
<Snip>
I'm not the person who said that, but I have also had good experiences with
the staff at a Starbucks where I used to go frequently until I started
roasting.  As best I could tell, the kids who worked at that Starbucks were
a tight knit group who enjoyed working together as a team.  They had fun and
their good spirits were infectious.  For regulars, they often had drinks
ready almost as soon as you walked into the shop.  This Starbucks is in
Silicon Valley - their coffee was mediocre to awful, but the staff was
friendly and nice.  I haven't been there in ages, so I don't know what the
atmosphere there is like now.

31) From: National Prison Consultants
I can categorically state that I have never had a positive experience in *$.
From arrogance to ignorance to rudeness to pomposity to spiked faces and
tongues (dribbling when they speak.  I am not impressed.  I travel a bit and
usually am in larger cities, but often enough in smaller ones---Same thing.
I recall stepping up to a counter and having the idiot stare at me----no
greeting, no "May I help you." Nothing--He just stared I guess expecting to
do something. I did---I walked out. I haven't been to Houston *$ but will
agree that most Texans (and Southerners in general) I've worked with and met
are a tad (or two) friendlier than us folk from the Northeast. 
John B. Webster

32) From:
I have actually never had a BAD experience at a charbucks (with the exception of the coffee, pre roast-me-own).
I have not encountered the absolute rudeness that is mentioned here.
I live in Scottsdale, AZ and San Luis Obispo, CA and aside from being "drifty" the boy's and girl's are very nice.
ginny
<Snip>

33) From: Aaron
now before you go 'cusin us southers of bein nice an all,  I have had 
plenty of snootiess in starbucks around jacksonville.  Your mere 
presence there is such a bother to their whatever it is... routine. and 
you better KNOW before you hit the door what you want or you are wasting 
even more of their invalueable time... and the attitude goes down 
geometrically with every second of their time wasted.
Right next to one here is a radio shack, one of the people I know works 
at radio shack.  I go in from time to time to pick up little odds and 
ends for my projects.  I wonder if RS will let me park my truck in their 
parking lot one day, ill throw my inverter and battery bank in the back, 
throw a few solar panels up in the lawn next to the parking lot to help 
power my setup and make some real coffee right out there and offer free 
samples of what coffee should taste like to anyone who walks by and is 
interested.  Use the solar thing as a way to get folks to check out 
radio shack too.... Now THAT might be a fun idea!  I think I need to pay 
mike a visit tomorrow...
Aaron

34) From:
Perhaps it is US, we coffee snobs who are looking for "trouble and lack of service" at charbusks. Perhaps it is how you go in and ask (you already know your homeroast is better so poop on the jerks at charbucks)
maybe it is a West Coast/east coast kind of thing.
I just don't see it here.
ginny
<Snip>
plenty of snootiess in starbucks around jacksonville.  Your mere 
presence there is such a bother to their whatever it is... routine. and 
you better KNOW before you hit the door what you want or you are wasting 
even more of their invalueable time... and the attitude goes down 
geometrically with every second of their time wasted.<<<
<Snip>

35) From:
Perhaps it is US, we coffee snobs who are looking for "trouble and lack of service" at charbucks. Perhaps it is how you go in and ask (you already know your homeroast is better so poop on the jerks at charbucks)
maybe it is a West Coast/east coast kind of thing.
I just don't see it here.
ginny
<Snip>
plenty of snootiess in starbucks around jacksonville.  Your mere 
presence there is such a bother to their whatever it is... routine. and 
you better KNOW before you hit the door what you want or you are wasting 
even more of their invalueable time... and the attitude goes down 
geometrically with every second of their time wasted.<<<
<Snip>

36) From: National Prison Consultants
I thought the folk that got fired from *$ went to work at RS?  That is
another place we can discuss for days but I guess that is more appropriate
for another forum.  Remember TANDY computers?  
John B. Webster
Managing Director
National Prison & Sentencing Consultants, Inc.
310 Bourne Avenue
East Providence, RI 02916
401-694-1294
Los Angeles  323-924-5154
www.nationalprisonconsultants.com
info

37) From:
John:
I clearly understand. I am still not sure why you even asked an employee of C$'s about a machine when you have this wonderful would of coffee snobs right here at your beck and call...
ginny
<Snip>

38) From: National Prison Consultants
Ginny--no doubt there are some fine employees and folk working for *$. I
just haven't met any yet. Just look at their stock prices.  They are
obviously doing something right.  What, I am not sure, but I am just
relaying my personal experiences.  
John B. Webter

39) From: National Prison Consultants
Good thought but not a tight fit with me as I just started roasting in
November and had hated *$ for years.
JOHN

40) From: National Prison Consultants
Ginny, I did ask and last week got some great advice and guidance from very
knowledgeable folk.  I was having lunch next door and had to walk right past
a *$ so I thought "let me see what they have to offer." (OK, not my
brightest moment as I just got aggravated.) I don't think I will buy
anything coffee related without tapping the wide range and breadth of
experience here.
John B. Webster
Managing Director
National Prison & Sentencing Consultants, Inc.
310 Bourne Avenue
East Providence, RI 02916
401-694-1294
Los Angeles  323-924-5154
www.nationalprisonconsultants.com
info

41) From:
John:  what a guy, you have a wealth of info here. We love ya!!
ginny
<Snip>

42) From: Tom Ulmer
Hello Gene-
I have a bohemian daughter that works at a Starbucks in the San Felipe and
Voss area. She reports most of the patrons of the shop are typically
courteous in return. Funny how that works...

43) From: Aaron
well considering they tend to be next door to each other you might be 
onto something there!
let's not bring up the TRS-80
we want to remain friends here remember :P
and for what THAT is worth, my old apple IIe still runs.
Aaron

44) From: B. Scott Harroff
What?  No Sinclair or Interact support posts?

45) From:
no Kaypro...
g
<Snip>

46) From: Angelo
I have to say that the kids in the starbucks in my neighborhood 
(Manhattan) are very helpful and respectful. On more than one 
occasion, the kids offered (and I accepted) to let me use their 
employees' discount number when I was purchasing some equipment...and 
they listen when I try to educate them a bit..
A+
<Snip>

47) From: Randolph Wilson
<Snip>
I've got two Kaypros in my basement if you're jonesing for a little 
CP/M action.  A couple of Osbornes and some S-100 stuff too.

48) From: Aaron
What?  No Sinclair or Interact support posts?
==========
Ok ya got me, I hold my head in shame.  But even more shamefully must say, I don't even recall the Interact.  the timex sinclair 1000 though, umm eeps.  those were given away with a purchase of a TRS 80 right?

49) From: Gene Smith
<Snip>
I'm sure you know the old Yiddish expression, Angelo...If the schlemiel 
spills the soup, he always spills it on the schlemozzle...
Gene Smith
happily soup-free, in Houston

50) From: Gene Smith
<Snip>
And apparently deeply mysterious, too, Tom.
Gene Smith

51) From:
Loved that old Kaypro. Wanna sell one?
ginny
<Snip>

52) From: B. Scott Harroff
Well, let me help you walk down memory lane:http://www.tcp.com/~lgreenf/otherpag.htm

53) From: Derek Bradford
This reply is in response to John Webster's original and subsequent posts.
John,  I have a few issues with your post, although they're not limited to
you specifically; they're also directed to the overall contempt for
Starbucks.  Firstly, you claim to have been doing research into machines,
and then went to Starbucks to see what  they offered.  Had you done your
research as you claimed, you'd have already known that there are only two
consumer brewers that acheive proper brew temperature for drip coffee.
Since you also knew that Starbucks didn't sell either machine, I can only
assume that you went in not to browse their machines, but to show off your
extensive coffee knowlege.  Why create such confrontation?
Secondly, you seem to have some real distain for youth.  I would love to
hear your theories on how young people make inferior managers and their
relationship to the age of your ties.
So a Starbucks employee didn't know as much about coffee as you do.  So
what.  If you don't like their products, staff, or organizational structure=
,
don't shop there.  Nobody twisted your arm, and the employee you treated
like crap certainly didn't value your time or opinions.  There are certain
demographics that fast food retailers don't cater to, and whose business
they don't want.  You are of that demographic.  Don't feel bad about it;
they simply can't offer the level of product you require, and by continuing
to expect it from them when you know it's not possible, you are being unfai=
r
to the employees who have to serve you.  Have you ever shown a McDonald's
employee how to make a proper burger, or berated one for not making it just
like you do at home?  It's time to step off the pedestal and find a cafe
that serves the kind of coffee you want.  I know it's trendy to dump on
Starbucks, and it feels good to "know" more than someone else does, but it'=
s
just petty and small.
--Derek
--
The Uglyroast 3! Coffee Roaster.  ...Now 85% less ugly!http://uglyroast.atspace.com

54) From: Aaron
thanks B scott!!  I love things like that,  and now I remember that 
thing... my apple had a floppy drive on it and i tended to 'ignore' the 
tape drive units, unless it was the PDP 11 i got to work on at school...
didnt they eventually offer a 300 baud modem upgrade to that thing too?
aaron

55) From: National Prison Consultants
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Now, another guy as issues..
1.	Read my initial post.  "I needed a new coffee brewer and have been
doing some research. (I thank the many of you that have offered
suggestions.)  In the meantime, the other day I was having lunch next to a
$tarbucks and decided to check out their coffee brewers." I think you see
where is says "have been doing."  I don't think it says that I have
completed my research and was aware that only TWO machines on planet had a
high enough brew temp and I wanted to go into *$ to bust someone's balls.
2.	Your observation "as you claimed" suggest that I am lying and that
is rude, misguided and demonstrates you have another agenda with your post.
Let me know what it is and I will meet you head on, on a point by point
basis.
3.	You assume that "I knew Starbucks didn't sell wither machine" is
such a leap in logic or facts that it is difficult to respond.  Where in the
hell can you find ANY support for such a ridiculous statement. BTW, I know
Technivorm is one but have no idea what the other is.  DO you care to share
COFFEE knowledge rather than vitriol?
4.	My theories on youth and their relationship to ties.  Well until I
read your post, I was under the stupid impression that with age comes
experience and knowledge.  And yes, Derek, with age and experience does come
knowledge and I do believe that younger people make inferior managers at all
levels.  I think that is one of the reasons they don't grant kids tenure or
why it may take some time to work one's way up the corporate ladder. 
5.	Now listen, where did I claim that I was upset that a Starbucks
manager didn't know as much as I do.  Let go back to the facts of the post,
but I am certain you don't want the facts to interfere with your thought
process: "As I began to speak, she interrupted and said, "Sir these are the
best and hottest brewers on the market--otherwise we wouldn't be selling
them. Would you like one"
6.	Do you see where I point out that she was mistaken or lying.  That
is an affirmative statement that she made after telling me she did some
research.  You have some real issues in comprehending Plain English.
7.	Now for your observation that I am petty and small, I find that to
be rather offensive, but trust me not bothered.  I have always found ad
hominem attacks to come from the smallest of minds.  
8.	But since you don't mind being offensive lets see where we are at.
You have demonstrated little mastery of the King's English as you certainly
had difficultly reading my posts (Point 1); You failed to properly process
them through a logical intellectual process (Points 2 and 3) demonstrate a
fundamental lack of deductive and syllogistic reasoning (Point 3)  Feel
threatened so you go off on personal attacks  also suggesting very low self
esteem. 
Derek, I don't know what your problems are but really will not make them
mine. Your post is sophomoric and is designed to provoke or intimidate . I
assure  you neither will occur.  
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Derek Bradford
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 10:15 PM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: RE: +RE: $tarbucks
This reply is in response to John Webster's original and subsequent posts.
John,  I have a few issues with your post, although they're not limited to
you specifically; they're also directed to the overall contempt for
Starbucks.  Firstly, you claim to have been doing research into machines,
and then went to Starbucks to see what  they offered.  Had you done your
research as you claimed, you'd have already known that there are only two
consumer brewers that acheive proper brew temperature for drip coffee.
Since you also knew that Starbucks didn't sell either machine, I can only
assume that you went in not to browse their machines, but to show off your
extensive coffee knowlege.  Why create such confrontation?  
Secondly, you seem to have some real distain for youth.  I would love to
hear your theories on how young people make inferior managers and their
relationship to the age of your ties. 
So a Starbucks employee didn't know as much about coffee as you do.  So
what.  If you don't like their products, staff, or organizational structure,
don't shop there.  Nobody twisted your arm, and the employee you treated
like crap certainly didn't value your time or opinions.  There are certain
demographics that fast food retailers don't cater to, and whose business
they don't want.  You are of that demographic.  Don't feel bad about it;
they simply can't offer the level of product you require, and by continuing
to expect it from them when you know it's not possible, you are being unfair
to the employees who have to serve you.  Have you ever shown a McDonald's
employee how to make a proper burger, or berated one for not making it just
like you do at home?  It's time to step off the pedestal and find a cafe
that serves the kind of coffee you want.  I know it's trendy to dump on
Starbucks, and it feels good to "know" more than someone else does, but it's
just petty and small.
--Derek
-- 
The Uglyroast 3! Coffee Roaster.  ...Now 85% less ugly!http://uglyroast.atspace.com

56) From:
You go boy (as opposed to you go girl),
no offense made, meant or intended...
ginny
<Snip>

57) From: B. Scott Harroff
PDP 11? Oh my you were advanced.
 Back step to LSI 11 and assembler ased controller commands...

58) From:
BS, we are just starting to roll...
ginny
<Snip>

59) From: Randolph Wilson
Okay gang, time to switch to decaf and read Vogon poetry for a while...

60) From: Derek Bradford
On 3/1/06, National Prison Consultants 
wrote:
<Snip>
I take it all back.   I'm terribly sorry to have written such dribble, and
apologize for the offense I've caused.
Oh wait, that's not true.  Lest this deterioriate further, I'll finish my
piece by thanking you for the wonderfully ironic post.  Were it possible
that your writing was intentional, I would commend your grasp of irony.
Regardless, the humour remains, and that's more than enough for me.
By the way, the other drip brewer that achieves proper temperature is the
Presto Scandinavian.
Cheers,
--Derek, on behalf of royal English everywhere.
--
The Uglyroast 3! Coffee Roaster.  ...Now 85% less ugly!http://uglyroast.atspace.com

61) From: Brett Mason
No fair killing the entertainment.  It goes well with Kona!
Brett
On 3/1/06, Randolph Wilson  wrote:
<Snip>
ribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>
--
Regards,
Brett Mason
 HomeRoast
      __]_
   _(( )_  Please don't spill the coffee!

62) From: Brent - SC/TO Roasting
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
I can't take any more of these freaking arguments eating up bandwidth
and time.  And, the attitude of "you don't have to read it" is just
schoolyard bully thinking.  Kinda like "I wouldn't beat you up if you
didn't walk down this street."  Why can't you take it off list?  Why
do you need an audience?  Just to push other people's buttons?
I really don't give a damn about any one's debating skills, witty
repartee, or prejudices.   Or the abysmal lack of or excess of those
traits.  Just because one has an edyoumakation doesn't mean you have
manners or common sense.  Very apparently.
The only thing I really care about on this list is learning something
about coffee and sharing some of what I've learned and hopefully
hanging around to share it with newer folks.
But the most recent crap was a bunch of emails about a derogatory term
that was used and apologized for, but everyone just had to share their
view.
Now there's this crap about experiences at Starbuck's that degenerated
into personal attacks/defenses about working youth and about how one
person perceives another or, misperceives depending on perspective. 
Over the freakin' internet.  Jesus Freakin' Christ.
I have slipped into the camp of this list needing moderated.
Brent
Breaking the rule of
"It's better to be silent and appear wise
than to open your mouth and erase all doubt."

63) From: Brett Mason
The Melitta Clarity runs a very very close third as well...  maintains
temp just great....  But it cost $20 when it was available.
Who knew?
Gotta check the research again...  Maybe I'll ask the McDonalds
Manager.  They serve coffee...
Brett
On 3/1/06, Derek Bradford  wrote:
<Snip>
nd
<Snip>
y
<Snip>
e
<Snip>
--
Regards,
Brett Mason
 HomeRoast
      __]_
   _(( )_  Please don't spill the coffee!

64) From:
Brent:
<Snip>
Did you mean needing to be moderated? I am clear on your misunderstanding.
START A NEW POST if you want. I don't see anyone playing except those who want to...
Why does it bother you that we are a bit off topic and having a bit of fun? Why does it matter if we fly from one topic to another. 
You must live alone. I am from a very large family who TRY to speak at family dinners only to discover that other conversations are going on all around them.
it's ok guy,
relax, we will stop.
ginny
<Snip>

65) From: Aaron
my old mr coffee runs 205 too, but I putter a hotter element in it... 
does that count?  it wasnt too much off from that on the get go, but the 
tube ran through the water storage bin so i put a different material 
that is insulated in there also,   sorry, ill go lay over by my dish now.
Aaron

66) From: Randolph Wilson
shhh, just pouring oil on the fire,  I mean,  waters...
<Snip>

67) From: Randolph Wilson
<Snip>
No PID?

68) From: Aaron
No pid?  hmm does a pinky dippin classify as a pid...  burn the digit, 
don't spill the coffee it's hot 'nuff?

69) From: Paul Goelz
At 07:27 PM 3/1/2006, you wrote:
<Snip>
I live in Rochester Hills Michigan, about 28 miles north of 
Detroit.  It is a relatively affluent suburb with a median home value 
of maybe $200K or more.  Relatively white collar.  So perhaps that 
sways it somewhat.  But truly, the Starbucks employees around here in 
any Starbucks I have visited bear no relationship whatsoever to your 
description.  And from what I gather from talking to the folks in 
those Starbucks, employees such as you describe would not last 
long.  And would be VERY out of place.
As an aside, I have mentioned it here before but I was shocked when 
Starbucks had a tasting a while back to discover that Starbucks DOES 
have VERY good coffee.  I found a couple varieties that I really 
liked.  None of that signature Charbucks taste at all.  They just 
don't serve it as their every day coffee.
Paul
Paul Goelz
Rochester Hills, MI
paul at pgoelz dot comhttp://www.pgoelz.com

70) From: Paul Goelz
At 04:28 PM 3/1/2006, you wrote:
<Snip>
Maybe it depends on how you approach it and your 
expectations.  Remember that the average Starbucks employee has 
likely had very little contact with the "coffee world" beyond what 
comes in a can on the grocer's shelves before they joined 
Starbucks.  And of course Starbucks indoctrinated them with a certain 
amount of "our stuff is better  than....." attitude.  In some ways, 
it is.  And when you look at the customers streaming in every day, 
that certainly gets reinforced.  But I have had several conversations 
about home roasting and how much I dislike Starbucks coffee and it 
does spark discussion.  Not rudeness.  The people I have had those 
conversations with know me by name and have never been 
rude.  Anything but.  I am certain that I never changed any 
minds.  But over time if enough people like me (us) had those 
conversations...... and also passed our feelings on to 
corporate....... something might change.  When they had the big 
tasting last year where I discovered a couple Starbucks coffees I 
liked, I immediately wrote corporate and told them the tasting was a 
BRILLIANT idea.  And guess what..... around here anyway, I am told 
they do it every Saturday.  So if enough people find a coffee they 
like and TELL SOMEONE, it might just change.
I also wonder as I think about it how many people truly LIKE 
Starbucks regular coffee.  If I think back to what I have seen people 
order in the various Starbucks I have been in, it is almost 
universally steamed milk drinks.  I wonder if more people than we 
think dislike their regular coffee....
I hope this isn't too out of place on Tom's list.  But it seems to me 
that while we all get out day to day coffee from Tom, there is a 
place for discussion about Starbucks since it is a convenient place 
to get a cup of something that at least resembles coffee when out and about.
Paul
Paul Goelz
Rochester Hills, MI
paul at pgoelz dot comhttp://www.pgoelz.com

71) From: Paul Goelz
At 08:52 PM 3/1/2006, you wrote:
<Snip>
Consider this..... The TRS-80 was to the home PC world what I think 
Starbucks is to the coffee world.  They both were sub-standard but 
they both were VERY popular and advanced the community.  The TRS-80 
got a huge number of people used to having a PC in the 
home.  Starbucks is getting huge numbers used to something beyond 
Folgers.... and used to other coffee drinks.  I have had a Cappucino 
machine of some sort for at least 25 years.  In the early days NO ONE 
had ever heard of a cap or a latte or even espresso.  These days, it 
is almost the opposite.
Paul
Paul Goelz
Rochester Hills, MI
paul at pgoelz dot comhttp://www.pgoelz.com

72) From: Justin Marquez
On 3/2/06, Paul Goelz  wrote:
<Snip>
I don't know if I like or dislike their plain ol' coffee. The only thing I
have ever ordered in a *$ is one of their espresso+milk drinks, either the
latte or the cappo.  Why?  I have wonderful coffee at home and at the
office.  I don't have access to an espresso machine, so drinks based on it
are what I buy out.  I admit, it feel a little foolish to spend $4 for
coffee and steamed milk. Truth is, I don't do it very often.
How would I rate them in my limited Texas experiences... Service 7/10
Coffee Quality 5/10   Ambience 6/10
It is mediocre at best, but it is relatively consistent.  In the Houston
area there are MUCH better local places for the espresso and all the other
aspects mentioned.. Normally if I am going to spend $4 on coffee plus
steamed milk, whenever we are in Houston I go to one of those places when i=
t
is convenient.  If it isn't convenient, I will go to *$. When I am in Snyde=
r
(most of the time until *October*), there is only one place in town that
makes espresso stuff and it is not even as good as *$.
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (Snyder, TX)http://www.justinandlinda.com

73) From: Kent Lind
Good grief
I signed on to this list a few days ago after getting an iRoast from 
Sweet Marias and getting hooked on home roasting.  And 55 of my first 60 
messages are about Starbucks?  What's next?  Another 100 messages about 
the merits of General Foods International Coffees?
OK, enough said.  By way of introduction I'm coming to this list with a 
particular personal interest in Central American coffees.  In the late 
80s I was a Peace Corps volunteer in Alotenango Guatemala (15 km south 
of Antigua) and spent much of my time working with a local campesino 
coffee cooperative that was attempting to build its own beneficio.  My 
real job, the one the Peace Corps sent me to do, was to do beekeeping 
and work with the Africanized bees.  But my Guatemalan counterpart was a 
coffee grower when he wasn't working for the Ministry of Agriculture and 
he got me hooked on everything to do with coffee.  I spent a lot of my 
free time traveling the back roads of Guatemala by motorcycle and saw 
most of the prime coffee growing regions first hand.  Back then we Peace 
Corps volunteers roasted our own coffee using toaster ovens or cast iron 
skillets.  At least it beat the pouches of Nescafe sold in the local 
markets!
Now with a wife and 3 young children it's quite a bit harder to hop a 
plane to venture off into Central America again.  So I have to make do 
with my recent delivery of Coban Organic and Acatenango Cooperative beans.
Cheers,
Kent Lind
China Spring, TX
-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.1.1/272 - Release Date: 3/1/2006

74) From: Gerald and Beth Newsom
Welcome to the Homeroasting list, Kent!  We're glad to have you.
You mentioned Alotenango and Acatenango in your letter.  I have some beans
that are labeled Guatemala Huehuetenango--La Maravilla.  What does the
'tenango ending of these words indicate?   A district or region of
Guatemala?
Thanks,
Gerald

75) From: Kent Lind
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.1.1/272 - Release Date: 3/1/2006

76) From: Sandy Andina
--Apple-Mail-2--192022509
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	charsetO-8859-1;
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	format=flowed
When Starbucks coffee beans are fresh, they are indeed very good. I  
used to be a member of their "Encore" mail-order program on the  
recommendation of Consumer Reports, which mentioned that they roasted  =
the day they shipped. Their Colombian Nariño Supremo was very good (FC =
+), and they would often throw in bonuses of Anniversary, Blue Note,  
Christmas, and Gazebo blends when they were about to come out each  
year.  But then supermarkets began to carry their House Blend and  
Light Note (City), and one shipment came stale--the House Blend at  
the Dominick's across the street was fresher. Shortly thereafter, I  
discovered Intelligentsia right about the same time they discontinued  =
Encore because so many supermarkets not only carried their beans but  
began to have in-store Starbucks concessions (interestingly, the one  
across the street at Dominick's still has a separate non-superauto  
LaMarzocco and grinder--the asst. manager can pull a decent ristretto  =
and a good heavy-cream breve though the usual Russian barista refuses  =
to do anything not on the official menu).
And at the risk of sounding like a broken record (how many folks born  =
since the late '70s even know what that means?), I remember them in  
their infancy in Seattle--at the U. Village store, they did not sell  
drinks (though they gave them away their first Christmas) and were  
passionate about questioning customers' flavor preferences before  
recommending which varietals to buy, even writing suggested use  
(drip, press, cream, milk, sugar) and accompaniments (chocolate,  
fruits) on the bags (which were brown kraft stamped with their logo  
and hand-stamped or even handwritten with the varietal name and  
purchase date.   As recently as three years ago, the only Starbucks  
baristi who were clueless were the minimum-wage drones in the airport  =
and tollway concessions (though a few months ago at the Tri-State  
Tollway Oasis, I was amazed to find a rosetta atop my heavy cream  
breve).  They used to be known for decent wages and really good  
benefits.  I think they just expanded too fast for demand and the  
available competent labor pool; their conversion to superautos was  
necessitated by both the need to find  sales help quickly and the  
popularity that they created with their PR. A classic case of "be  
careful what you wish for...."
	Getting back to the freshness thing, if I run out of homeroast =
on  
the road, am not passing near a good roasteria and know I won't have  
any properly rested beans once I get home (and I usually get home  
after Metropolis has closed for the night), I ask for half a lb. of  
whichever beans have the longest pull date on the bulk bag.   
Interestingly, they sometimes DO serve their retail varietals and  
blends, but they all taste like their signature brew in the store-- 
Light Note properly brewed at home will taste very different-- 
subtler, more nuanced, brighter--from the same stuff that comes out  
their airpots. A barista (senior citizen, BTW, who used to run his  
own small shop) in Boca Raton told me that Starbucks customers expect  =
consistency and that signature dark-roast taste, so they  just brew  
the lighter roasts nearly double-strength in-store to achieve that  
consistency.
On Mar 2, 2006, at 6:08 AM, Paul Goelz wrote:
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
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When Starbucks coffee beans are fresh, they =
are indeed very good. I used to be a member of their "Encore" mail-order =
program on the recommendation of Consumer Reports, which =
mentioned that they roasted the day they shipped. Their Colombian Nariño=
 Supremo was very good (FC+), and they would often throw in bonuses of =
Anniversary, Blue Note, Christmas, and Gazebo blends when they were =
about to come out each year.  But then supermarkets began to carry =
their House Blend and Light Note (City), and one shipment came =
stale--the House Blend at the Dominick's across the street was fresher. =
Shortly thereafter, I discovered Intelligentsia right about the same =
time they discontinued Encore because so many supermarkets not only =
carried their beans but began to have in-store Starbucks concessions =
(interestingly, the one across the street at Dominick's still has a =
separate non-superauto LaMarzocco and grinder--the asst. manager can =
pull a decent ristretto and a good heavy-cream breve though the usual =
Russian barista refuses to do anything not on the official menu).  =
 
And at the risk of sounding like a broken = record (how many folks born since the late '70s even know what that = means?), I remember them in their infancy in Seattle--at the U. Village = store, they did not sell drinks (though they gave them away their first = Christmas) and were passionate about questioning customers' flavor = preferences before recommending which varietals to buy, even writing = suggested use (drip, press, cream, milk, sugar) and accompaniments = (chocolate, fruits) on the bags (which were brown kraft stamped with = their logo and hand-stamped or even handwritten with the varietal name = and purchase date.   As recently as three years ago, the only = Starbucks baristi who were clueless were the minimum-wage drones in the = airport and tollway concessions (though a few months ago at the = Tri-State Tollway Oasis, I was amazed to find a rosetta atop my heavy = cream breve).  They used to be known for decent wages and really good = benefits.  I think they just expanded too fast for demand and the = available competent labor pool; their conversion to superautos was = necessitated by both the need to find  sales help quickly and the = popularity that they created with their PR. A classic case of "be = careful what you wish for...."
Getting = back to the freshness thing, if I run out of homeroast on the road, am = not passing near a good roasteria and know I won't have any properly = rested beans once I get home (and I usually get home after Metropolis = has closed for the night), I ask for half a lb. of whichever beans have = the longest pull date on the bulk bag.  Interestingly, they sometimes = DO serve their retail varietals and blends, but they all taste like = their signature brew in the store--Light Note properly brewed at home = will taste very different--subtler, more nuanced, brighter--from the = same stuff that comes out their airpots. A barista (senior citizen, BTW, = who used to run his own small shop) in Boca Raton told me that Starbucks = customers expect consistency and that signature dark-roast taste, so = they  just brew the lighter roasts nearly double-strength in-store to = achieve that consistency.  On Mar 2, 2006, at 6:08 AM, = Paul Goelz wrote:
At 04:28 PM 3/1/2006, you = wrote: I have to = agree, in part, at least re: the unlearned and I am glad they = havea job.  What I don't like is the = condescending, unprofessional, illconceived = sense of superiority by some kid that is convinced as a result = ofa three day "training" program, that they know = more about coffee and, as Ihave heard, = "expresso" than anyone---and I mean anyone----that doesn't = weara black apron. Frankly, the = attitude is so pervasive that I am convinced itis part of some corporate, ingrained = philosophy. Maybe it depends on how you = approach it and your expectations. = Remember that the average Starbucks employee has likely had very = little contact with the "coffee world" beyond what comes in a can on the = grocer's shelves before they joined Starbucks.  And of course Starbucks = indoctrinated them with a certain amount of "our stuff is better  than....." attitude.  In some ways, it is.  And when you look at the = customers streaming in every day, that certainly gets reinforced.  But I have had several = conversations about home roasting and how much I dislike Starbucks = coffee and it does spark discussion.  Not rudeness.  The people I have had those = conversations with know me by name and have never been rude.  Anything but.  I am certain that I never = changed any minds.  But = over time if enough people like me (us) had those conversations...... = and also passed our feelings on to corporate....... something might = change.  When they had = the big tasting last year where I discovered a couple Starbucks coffees = I liked, I immediately wrote corporate and told them the tasting was a = BRILLIANT idea.  And = guess what..... around here anyway, I am told they do it every = Saturday.  So if enough = people find a coffee they like and TELL SOMEONE, it might just = change. I also wonder as I think about it how many people = truly LIKE Starbucks regular coffee.  If I think back to what I = have seen people order in the various Starbucks I have been in, it is = almost universally steamed milk drinks.  I wonder if more people than = we think dislike their regular coffee.... I hope this = isn't too out of place on Tom's list.  But it seems to me that while = we all get out day to day coffee from Tom, there is a place for = discussion about Starbucks since it is a convenient place to get a cup = of something that at least resembles coffee when out and = about. Paul Paul GoelzRochester = Hills, MIpaul at pgoelz dot comhttp://www.pgoelz.com homeroastmailing listhttp://li=sts.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroastTo change your personal list settings (digest = options, vacations, unsvbscribes) go to http://=sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings = = = --Apple-Mail-2--192022509--

77) From: Brett Mason
Good report Sandy!  One interesting note to add, Starbucks began with
beans and roasting lessons from Peet's.  Eventually they bought Peets.
 After some time, one of the original Starbucks founders rolled Peet's
back out on its own, because he wanted to focus more on roasting...
My favorite is when people argue Peets over Starbucks, because at one
time they were one family...
Brett
On 3/2/06, Sandy Andina  wrote:
<Snip>
to
<Snip>
n
<Snip>
to
<Snip>
eir
<Snip>
e
<Snip>
 a
<Snip>
ce
<Snip>
cy
<Snip>
y
<Snip>
ng
<Snip>
ly
<Snip>
PR.
<Snip>
d,
<Snip>
e
<Snip>
e
<Snip>
s
<Snip>
n
<Snip>
y.
<Snip>
ave
<Snip>
of
<Snip>
I
<Snip>
ar
<Snip>
it
<Snip>
th
<Snip>
ore
<Snip>
s,
<Snip>
me
<Snip>
h
<Snip>
at
<Snip>
ad
<Snip>
ast
<Snip>
s
<Snip>
t
<Snip>
ave
<Snip>
of
<Snip>
I
<Snip>
ar
<Snip>
it
<Snip>
th
<Snip>
ore
<Snip>
s,
<Snip>
me
<Snip>
h
<Snip>
at
<Snip>
ad
<Snip>
ast
<Snip>
s
<Snip>
t
<Snip>
--
Regards,
Brett Mason
 HomeRoast
      __]_
   _(( )_  Please don't spill the coffee!

78) From: National Prison Consultants
Actually Peets and Starbucks never had and do not today have anything to =
do
with each other.  Peets was started in 1966 in Berkeley CA.  Starbucks =
was
founded in Seattle in 1971.  Shultz went to work for Starbucks in 1982 =
and
left in 1985 to found Il Giornale.  In 1987, Il Giornale acquired =
Starbucks
and changed the name to the Starbucks Corporation. Peets is now a =
publicly
traded corp (NASDAQ: PEETS) 
John B. Webster
Managing Director
National Prison & Sentencing Consultants, Inc.
310 Bourne Avenue
East Providence, RI 02916
401-694-1294
Los Angeles  323-924-5154
www.nationalprisonconsultants.com
info

79) From: Derek Bradford
On 3/2/06, National Prison Consultants 
wrote:
<Snip>
Ahem.  Actually,
Peet's was the inspiration for now-rival
Starbucks.
The three original founders of Starbucks knew Alfred Peet personally,
founded Starbucks in Seattle as kindred spirits, and bought the coffee bean=
s
for Starbucks directly from Peet's during their first year of business in
1971. In 1984 Jerry Baldwin ,
one of the original founders of Starbucks, lead a group of investors that
purchased Peet's Coffee & Tea. For sometime Baldwin and some of the other
investors owned Peet's and an interest in Starbucks, they eventually electe=
d
to run Peet's as its own operation. Baldwin brought Jim Reynolds with him
from Starbuck's when he and other investors sold their interests in
Starbucks. Reynolds played a very important role at Peet's as coffee buyer
and roastmaster until his retirement in 2004; he currently consults with th=
e
company and holds the title "Roastmaster Emeritus". Baldwin and Howard
Schultz , the new owner of
Starbucks, negotiated a non-compete period, keeping Starbucks out of the Sa=
n
Francisco Bay Area for 5 years after the sale.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peet's_Coffee_&_TeaBaldwin sold his interests in Starbucks in 1987.
--
The Uglyroast 3! Coffee Roaster.  ...Now 85% less ugly!http://uglyroast.atspace.com

80) From: National Prison Consultants
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
I was going with information obtained from each company's respective web
sites,http://www.starbucks.co.jp/en/company_history.htm and contained in SEC">http://www.peets.com/who_we_are/history_vine.aspandhttp://www.starbucks.co.jp/en/company_history.htm and contained in SEC
filings, but if you prefer to rely on open source encyclopedia from
Wikopedia, I guess that is your option
John B. Webster
Managing Director
National Prison & Sentencing Consultants, Inc.
310 Bourne Avenue
East Providence, RI 02916
401-694-1294
Los Angeles  323-924-5154
www.nationalprisonconsultants.com
info  
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Derek Bradford
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 8:44 PM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +RE: $tarbucks
On 3/2/06, National Prison Consultants 
wrote:
Actually Peets and Starbucks never had and do not today have anything to do
with each other.  
Ahem.  Actually,
Peet's was the inspiration for now-rival Starbucks
 . The three original founders of
Starbucks knew Alfred Peet personally, founded Starbucks in Seattle as
kindred spirits, and bought the coffee beans for Starbucks directly from
Peet's during their first year of business in 1971. In 1984 Jerry
  Baldwin, one of the original
founders of Starbucks, lead a group of investors that purchased Peet's
Coffee & Tea. For sometime Baldwin and some of the other investors owned
Peet's and an interest in Starbucks, they eventually elected to run Peet's
as its own operation. Baldwin brought Jim Reynolds with him from Starbuck's
when he and other investors sold their interests in Starbucks. Reynolds
played a very important role at Peet's as coffee buyer and roastmaster until
his retirement in 2004; he currently consults with the company and holds the
title "Roastmaster Emeritus". Baldwin and Howard Schultz
 , the new owner of Starbucks,
negotiated a non-compete period, keeping Starbucks out of the San Francisco
Bay Area for 5 years after the sale. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peet's_Coffee_ &_Tea
Baldwin sold his interests in Starbucks in 1987.
-- 
The Uglyroast 3! Coffee Roaster.  ...Now 85% less ugly!http://uglyroast.atspace.com

81) From: National Prison Consultants
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
But if you like to read and rely on Wikipedia, lets go with the whole quote:
The first Starbucks was opened in Seattle in 1971
  by three partners, teachers Jerry
Baldwin   (English), and
 Zev
Siegel (History), and writer Gordon Bowker
 . Wanting to sell high-quality
coffee beans and machines, they opened its still-operating first location in
Pike   Place Market. The
three knew
 Alfred
Peet personally and were inspired by him to open a high quality coffee bean
retailer. During their first year of operation they purchased green beans
from Peet's Coffee   &
Tea. Entrepreneur Howard 
Schultz joined the company in 1982   and,
inspired by Italian espresso bars he had visited, started the Il Giornale
coffee bar chain in 1985  . In 1984 the
original owners, lead by Baldwin, took the opportunity to purchase Peet's.
The original owners sold the Starbucks chain to Howard Schultz in 1987
 . Baldwin went on to run Peet's, where
he still works. Schultz's Il Giornale outlets were rebranded as Starbucks.
Starbucks opened its first locations in Vancouver, British Columbia
  (at Waterfront
Station  ) and Chicago,
Illinois   in 1987. Its
first location outside of North America was opened in Tokyo
 , Japan, in 1996
 , and now Starbucks has outlets in 30
additional countries. There are currently close to 10,595 locations
worldwide, although none, as yet, in Italy, Schultz's original inspiration
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Derek Bradford
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 8:44 PM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +RE: $tarbucks
On 3/2/06, National Prison Consultants 
wrote:
Actually Peets and Starbucks never had and do not today have anything to do
with each other.  
Ahem.  Actually,
Peet's was the inspiration for now-rival Starbucks
 . The three original founders of
Starbucks knew Alfred Peet personally, founded Starbucks in Seattle as
kindred spirits, and bought the coffee beans for Starbucks directly from
Peet's during their first year of business in 1971. In 1984 Jerry
  Baldwin, one of the original
founders of Starbucks, lead a group of investors that purchased Peet's
Coffee & Tea. For sometime Baldwin and some of the other investors owned
Peet's and an interest in Starbucks, they eventually elected to run Peet's
as its own operation. Baldwin brought Jim Reynolds with him from Starbuck's
when he and other investors sold their interests in Starbucks. Reynolds
played a very important role at Peet's as coffee buyer and roastmaster until
his retirement in 2004; he currently consults with the company and holds the
title "Roastmaster Emeritus". Baldwin and Howard Schultz
 , the new owner of Starbucks,
negotiated a non-compete period, keeping Starbucks out of the San Francisco
Bay Area for 5 years after the sale. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peet's_Coffee_ &_Tea
Baldwin sold his interests in Starbucks in 1987.
-- 
The Uglyroast 3! Coffee Roaster.  ...Now 85% less ugly!http://uglyroast.atspace.com

82) From: Randolph Wilson
<Snip>
Kent,
Rule #1 - Don't give the monkeys any ideas, they have to come up with 
them on their own.
Sooo, I like the Russian Hazelnut Vanilla - it makes me hear the 
sound of a balilika playing.  What's your favorite?

83) From: National Prison Consultants
...at least it relates to coffee.

84) From: Derek Bradford
On 3/2/06, National Prison Consultants 
wrote:
<Snip>
Yes, but what's your point?  That doesn't offer any conflicting information
with what I posted.
Look John, I didn't attack you.  I corrected you.  Do I trust Wikipedia
absolutely?  Man, I trust very few things absolutely.  But I do believe tha=
t
by and large, it's accurate.  And, at least conidering scientific data, it'=
s
been shown to be so.  But I don't particularly care if you disagree.   Ther=
e
is conflicting data, and you can believe what you want, and everyone else
still following this can believe what they want.  If you all believe the
same thing, then that's great.  If not, then that's great, too.  Really, it
doesn't matter.  Relax, dude.  It's all over.  You can step away from the
Great Starbucks Thread and never look back, start fresh on the list, and
everyone will be  happy again.
--
The Uglyroast 3! Coffee Roaster.  ...Now 85% less ugly!http://uglyroast.atspace.com

85) From: Sandy Andina
--Apple-Mail-15--161847950
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Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset-ASCII;
	delsp=yes;
	format=flowed
Starbucks was not founded by Schultz--he did not come onboard till  
1982, and when I came to Seattle in 1971, they had their Airport Way  
roastery and one store, at Pike Place Mkt. I preferred to get my  
beans from Murchie's in Vancouver, and didn't even know about *$ till  
they opened their University Village store in Aug. 1972. Il Giornale  
was inspired by Schultz' trip to Italy while he was employed by  
Starbucks; he came home and decided to topen Il Giornale, which sold  
classic Italian style coffee drinks (e.g., not even offering skim  
milk) in a relax-and-read-the-daily-paper atmosphere--they even  
offered the papers. He soon realized that they still needed bean  
sales, and that becoming a cafe chain was not possible without  
massive recruitment and training (he had bitten off far mor than he  
could chew), so he bought Starbucks, rolled Il Giornale back into  
Starbucks and took back the Starbucks name; the result was the  
combination cafe-bean store that exists in far greater profusion today.
The original Starbucks owners sold out in the mid-to-late-'70s while  
it was still a bean-and-leaf outfit:  one bought Peet's (whose dark  
roasts were Starbucks' inspiration), and the other, Dave Olson,  
opened standalone coffeehouse Cafe Allegro in Seattle's U. Dist (and  
I think it's still around).  I know because I used to hang out there  
(Allegro) and talk with the staff from 1975-8.  I used to knock back  
Espresso Allegros (a doppio pulled into a dollop of honey and a  
cardamom pod in the bottom of the cup) along with beehive pastries.   
Schultz bought Starbucks from the people Olson and his partner sold  
it to.
On Mar 2, 2006, at 7:22 PM, National Prison Consultants wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
--Apple-Mail-15--161847950
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charsetO-8859-1
Starbucks was not founded by =
Schultz--he did not come onboard till 1982, and when I came to Seattle =
in 1971, they had their Airport Way roastery and one store, at Pike =
Place Mkt. I preferred to get my beans from Murchie's in Vancouver, and =
didn't even know about *$ till they opened their University Village =
store in Aug. 1972. Il Giornale was inspired by Schultz' trip to Italy =
while he was employed by Starbucks; he came home and decided to topen Il =
Giornale, which sold classic Italian style coffee drinks (e.g., not even =
offering skim milk) in a relax-and-read-the-daily-paper atmosphere--they =
even offered the papers. He soon realized that they still needed bean =
sales, and that becoming a cafe chain was not possible without massive =
recruitment and training (he had bitten off far mor than he could chew), =
so he bought Starbucks, rolled Il Giornale back into Starbucks and took =
back the Starbucks name; the result was the combination cafe-bean store =
that exists in far greater profusion today. 
The original Starbucks = owners sold out in the mid-to-late-'70s while it was still a = bean-and-leaf outfit:  one bought Peet's (whose dark roasts were = Starbucks' inspiration), and the other, Dave Olson, opened standalone = coffeehouse Cafe Allegro in Seattle's U. Dist (and I think it's still = around).  I know because I used to hang out there (Allegro) and talk = with the staff from 1975-8.  I used to knock back Espresso Allegros (a = doppio pulled into a dollop of honey and a cardamom pod in the bottom of = the cup) along with beehive pastries.  Schultz bought Starbucks from = the people Olson and his partner sold it to. On Mar 2, = 2006, at 7:22 PM, National Prison Consultants wrote:

Starbucks was

founded in Seattle in = 1971.  Shultz went to = work for Starbucks in 1982 and

left in 1985 to found Il Giornale

= = = --Apple-Mail-15--161847950--

86) From: National Prison Consultants
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Sandy, thank you.  I didn't mean to imply that Shultz founded *$.  I do
appreciate reading first hand info about what is quickly becoming a hot
topic around here. Again thanks.  
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Sandy Andina
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 9:48 PM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +RE: $tarbucks
Starbucks was not founded by Schultz--he did not come onboard till 1982, and
when I came to Seattle in 1971, they had their Airport Way roastery and one
store, at Pike Place Mkt. I preferred to get my beans from Murchie's in
Vancouver, and didn't even know about *$ till they opened their University
Village store in Aug. 1972. Il Giornale was inspired by Schultz' trip to
Italy while he was employed by Starbucks; he came home and decided to topen
Il Giornale, which sold classic Italian style coffee drinks (e.g., not even
offering skim milk) in a relax-and-read-the-daily-paper atmosphere--they
even offered the papers. He soon realized that they still needed bean sales,
and that becoming a cafe chain was not possible without massive recruitment
and training (he had bitten off far mor than he could chew), so he bought
Starbucks, rolled Il Giornale back into Starbucks and took back the
Starbucks name; the result was the combination cafe-bean store that exists
in far greater profusion today. 
The original Starbucks owners sold out in the mid-to-late-'70s while it was
still a bean-and-leaf outfit: one bought Peet's (whose dark roasts were
Starbucks' inspiration), and the other, Dave Olson, opened standalone
coffeehouse Cafe Allegro in Seattle's U. Dist (and I think it's still
around). I know because I used to hang out there (Allegro) and talk with the
staff from 1975-8. I used to knock back Espresso Allegros (a doppio pulled
into a dollop of honey and a cardamom pod in the bottom of the cup) along
with beehive pastries. Schultz bought Starbucks from the people Olson and
his partner sold it to.
On Mar 2, 2006, at 7:22 PM, National Prison Consultants wrote:
Starbucks was
founded in Seattle in 1971. Shultz went to work for Starbucks in 1982 and
left in 1985 to found Il Giornale
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com

87) From: Brett Mason
Blah Blah Blah - reading two websites does not a research make.
Since you were arrogant enough to declare my statement wrong when you
said that Peets and Starbucks never had anything to do with eachother,
I can only assume you are just very very naive.  Unlearned.
Perhaps you should get a job where they teach you something.  It may
not be all correct, but would certainly be an improvement.  They might
even have a session on civility.
Brett
On 3/2/06, National Prison Consultants
 wrote:
<Snip>
do
<Snip>
me
<Snip>
m
<Snip>
s
<Snip>
or
<Snip>
--
Regards,
Brett Mason
 HomeRoast
      __]_
   _(( )_  Please don't spill the coffee!

88) From: Angelo
But, what does the Bible say about it?

89) From: raymanowen
"Thou shallt not spill coffee on the manuals whilst changing
registration..."
ro

90) From: Justin Marquez
On 3/2/06, National Prison Consultants 
wrote:
<Snip>
i!
Hey, we already KNOW how easily the big cos. can lie to the SEC...
And for that matter, do we really *care* who founded/bought/sold *$ or
Peets?  We've all agreed that they are steeped in mediocrity today.
(muahahahaha....)
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (Snyder, TX)http://www.justinandlinda.com

91) From: Brett Mason
I am not convinced they are steeped in mediocrity today...
Brett
On 3/3/06, Justin Marquez  wrote:
<Snip>
s?
<Snip>
--
Regards,
Brett Mason
 HomeRoast
      __]_
   _(( )_  Please don't spill the coffee!

92) From: Justin Marquez
On 3/3/06, Brett Mason  wrote:
<Snip>
Do you think they are better or worse than mediocre?
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (Snyder, TX)http://www.justinandlinda.com

93) From:
worse...
<Snip>

94) From: Brett Mason
They are certainly better than mediocre.  (At least I think so)
Brett
On 3/3/06, Justin Marquez  wrote:
<Snip>
--
Regards,
Brett Mason
 HomeRoast
      __]_
   _(( )_  Please don't spill the coffee!

95) From: Brett Mason
LOL - I hadn't seen your assessment.  They'll at least believe that
divisiveness has occurred between Brett & Gin...
Cheers,
Brett
  \  /
   Y
  _|_
On 3/3/06, beanzebub  wrote:
<Snip>
ribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>
--
Regards,
Brett Mason
 HomeRoast
      __]_
   _(( )_  Please don't spill the coffee!

96) From:
for sure dude!!
g
<Snip>

97) From: Woody DeCasere
in reality compared to fast food, donut shop's or other big chains like the
coffee beanery they are great in comparison, but compared to fresh homeroas=
t
there is no contest. I think we are hard on them because they claim
greatness and to our standards dont deliver.
On 3/3/06, Brett Mason  wrote:
<Snip>
--
"Good night, and Good Coffee"

98) From: sean
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
For me personally - I will go to a Dunkin Donuts over a Starbucks.  
 
For some reason, I have always liked DD coffee, not as much as the homeroast
or other fresh roasted I have found in the past year...
 
Sean  
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Woody DeCasere
Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 10:26 PM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +RE: $tarbucks
 
in reality compared to fast food, donut shop's or other big chains like the
coffee beanery they are great in comparison, but compared to fresh homeroast
there is no contest. I think we are hard on them because they claim
greatness and to our standards dont deliver. 
On 3/3/06, Brett Mason  wrote:
They are certainly better than mediocre.  (At least I think so)
Brett
On 3/3/06, Justin Marquez  wrote:
<Snip>
--
Regards,
Brett Mason 
HomeRoast
      __]_
   _(( )_  Please don't spill the coffee!-- 
"Good night, and Good Coffee" 

99) From: Scott Miller
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
At my weekly manager's meeting we usually have DD coffee. I have always 
enjoyed DD coffee. It's not great or even good by home roasting 
standards. It's predictably consistent in my experience. A dash of milk 
smooths out the bitterness.
cheers,
Scott
sean wrote:
<Snip>

100) From: Woody DeCasere
ugh thats all i have to say, undrinkable. i would rather have WAWA coffee.
On 3/4/06, Scott Miller  wrote:
<Snip>
.
<Snip>
the
<Snip>
--
"Good night, and Good Coffee"

101) From: Peter Zulkowski
One more criticism..
I was in Las Vegas, NV over the weekend, and stopped into a *$
in a trendy mall..
just to see..
The CHEAPEST cup of coffee on the menu was $5.95...  plus tax!
So I left.
PeterZ
Makes better coffee, and less expensive too, here in LHC.
Woody DeCasere wrote:
<Snip>

102) From: Brett Mason
So they are smart too?
must be.
Brett
On 3/5/06, Peter Zulkowski  wrote:
<Snip>
-
<Snip>
ribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>
--
Regards,
Brett Mason
 HomeRoast
      __]_
   _(( )_  Please don't spill the coffee!


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