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Topic: $tarbucks now OT Rant (28 msgs / 854 lines)
1) From: Geary Lyons
Well, I have tried to ignore this thread, but this post is just so wrong on
so many levels. It is gross over generalization on a embarrassing scale. I
find this post offensive, far beyond some of the foul language posts of
past.
I regularly travel, for business, in most of the 27 western states. Urban,
suburban, rural, I go there.   Although I am not a big fan of Starbucks, for
the most part I can depend on getting a cup of coffee, strong, even if over
roasted.  Other than Starbucks, and the occasional Peets, Tully's etc., that
I can find, generally my experience is that the "regular quick cuppa"
providers slosh out under dosed, over extracted burnt, brown water.
It has been my experience that the Starbucks customer service model is
pretty well consistent throughout their footprint.  Yes, there has been the
occasional blip, but, in my experience, the service is pretty good. It is
also my experience that the employees are not all "teenagers".  Perhaps it
would benefit to know the poster's geographic scope. ( Not really, IMHO,
that's not the problem here!) But, even the teenagers that have served me at
Starbucks, and other coffee purveyors, in my experience, do not  match the
posters broad brush diatribe.
Now on to the "98 percent of teenagers are too immature to really take a job
or anything for that matter...really serious..."  Really? 98%, not 97.8% or
98.4%?  Let's see teenage runs from, oh yeah, ages 13 to 19. That pretty
much covers from middle school through early college. Yes, now there is a
homogenous demographic. But, 98%, statistically would have to include most
every teen aged young person in the country, would it not? Well, not the 2%,
of course!
I work for a bank that employees over 140,000 team members.  In the retail
branches, a high percentage of our flex-time tellers are teen aged. They do
not match the posters specious profile. But then perhaps they are the other
2%?  But, then most other banks have the same model. My youngest of 3
daughters turned 20 last October.  Funny, I did not see the miraculous
transformation from "snotty/arrogant daddy's little princess" to mature
member of society on that monumental birthday. She's a junior in college and
has coached community swim teens over her summer breaks. Must be that 2%.
Come to think of it, I guess all of my daughters must be in that wonderful
2%. And for the most part all most of their friends, most of the teenagers I
meet and interact with and/or am served by in various businesses and social
interactions. Must be my geography.
My experience is that, kids are generally kids.  But they are usually pretty
perceptive. If one wants to be recognized as "a step above plankton" one
must exhibit behavior proving their exalted position in the food chain.
Sorry, I just find this post so sad.
Cheers,
Geary

2) From:
Geary:
<Snip>
Foul language posts, you must live in the mid section of the country. Thanks for the attention given to a thread you "wanted" to ignore. Life is different for everyone. 
Just ignore the issues other's have mentioned; I guess you can't do that! They still live and work here and clearly have a right to their rants.
I did not see the issue of cbucks as a social issue, simply a fact. The conversation does not take away from your children al all.
Get over yourself.
ginny
You most likely have your children

3) From: National Prison Consultants
Geary, Let me see if I understand:  You find this post "offensive" because
YOUR personal experience with *$ is different from mine or some other
members? There are many things to become offended over, but I suggest that
finding a post offensive because it reflects an experience different from
yours, is perhaps a bit much. You may disagree but are you always "offended"
when you disagree with someone?  Political correctness about a service
experience is not a road I am about to walk down.

4) From: Geary Lyons
"Geary, Let me see if I understand:  You find this post "offensive" because
YOUR personal experience with *$ is different from mine or some other
members?"
No. Really had nothing to do with Starbucks, nor did post the to which I
responded.
"There are many things to become offended over, but I suggest that finding a
post offensive because it reflects an experience different from
yours, is perhaps a bit much."
Really? The post to which I responded had little to say about Starbucks that
I found offensive. I was offended by the overly broad generalizations.
"You may disagree but are you always "offended" when you disagree with
someone?"
Rarely. But I am offended when someone spews derogatory, broad
generalizations about people.
"Political correctness about a service experience is not a road I am about
to walk down."
"PC" yeah right. Let's attack by labeling.  Get my drift?
Cheers,
Geary

5) From: Aaron
Does your bank go through any selection process to hire these teenagers? 
or do they just open their doors and say come on in?   Do they make sure 
they need to know basic math skills, possibly can read and write beyond 
an 8th grade level, or does that not really matter?    Do they possibly 
make them do a criminal background check?  Don't want a teller that is 
on the lamb from robbing the last starbucks they worked now do we?  
Would you say that a 'cross section' of teenagers, would they have a 
better change at getting a job at your bank, or at wendy's.  We will go 
with 99 and 44/100 percent for the percentage this time, i dont want to 
be too specific since it brings up controversy however since 99 and 
44/100 is pure enough for ivory soap, it must be pure enough for us.  
What I am getting at is, the 'kids' your bank hires, are they generally 
a bit more oh shall we say.. qualified.. to be tellers... would you say 
all the teenagers who are qualified to flip burgers, would also be 
qualified to work at your bank as tellers or perhaps the teller has a 
teensy bit higher standard of employment?
how much do they pay them, do many of them stay on permanent, does the 
company treat them well enough to stay on permanent or do they know it's 
only a temporary gig, and know it's just a stepping stone to something 
better.... in other words, do they know if it's going to a career with 
your bank, or it's just a swing time job?
As far as the food chain  (not to be confused with chain stores selling 
food items) like it or not, a bank teller generally rates up there a tad 
bit higher than burger flipper, so therefore, yes, they would have 
exhibited the necessary behavorial patterns to be considered at the 
above plankton level.    Because of the very nature of the job, they 
would *have* to be a bit more educated, more mature, more reliable than 
the minimum requirements of a burger flipper. So yes you would be seeing 
a slightly better 'cross section' of the overall teen society, as a 
banker.    If I recall though, we were talking about the fast food 
industry, not the banking industry, however I can see how one can get 
confused since they both have drive thrus.
Somehow you lost me on how your daughter's metamorphosis from high 
school to college ties in with starbucks, unless she happened to work 
there, in which case I missed you stating that and apologize for that.  
Either way, she's in school and teaching now, so obviously moved on, 
again, those who can, move on from jobs like that.
Aaron

6) From: Steve Hay
On 3/1/06, National Prison Consultants 
wrote:
<Snip>
e
<Snip>
t
<Snip>
This post is not singly directed towards you, John, even though I'm quoting
you for context.
In Geary's defense, I also found some of what was discussed in the thread a
bit offensive.  Saying that, I am not claiming any ability to censor.
People should speak their minds.
However, beyond the "Starbucks Sucks" truism being discussed in the parent
thread, I found some of the general deragatory remarks towards our younger
members of society a bit disrespectful and misguided.  The fact that the *$
business model is more profitable when quality is reduced is not the person
behind the counter's fault.
--
Steven Hay
hay.steve -AT- gmail.com

7) From: Aaron
Someone brought up that perhaps us folks go into starbucks looking for 
bad because of our experiences here.
I know who posted it, I am not trying to ignore, belittle you or 
anything but am trying not to single folks out.  I can honestly say that 
when I have had to go into one, no.  I go in there looking for service, 
not my ass kissed, not to be fallen over and grovelled upon while 
kissing my shoes, but just some decent service.  Nothing more than Id 
expect from any place selling items to the general public.  It's not 
about their knowledge of the coffee or procedures, it's about their 
attitude towards the customer.... which such attitude inevitably brings 
out their lack of knowledge about coffee or the procedure, as expressed 
in earlier posts.
Do I go in there wearing a 700 dollar suit with a cellphone stuck in my 
ear looking so mighty important... no I don't
Do i go in there looking like I woke up under the bridge down the road 
after a night of boozing it up and hadn't showered for a week preceeding 
that?
.. again no I don't.
Do I go in there to 'teach' them or somehow 'impress' them with how much 
knowledge I think I have... umm no, I go in to buy something generally.  
IF we strike up a conversation, then we might talk about this or that, 
or coffee, but I don't go in loaded to be arrogant and trying to suprise 
them.
I think the point here is, we all pretty much agree their coffee leaves 
a lot to be desired, and is much less than it is trumped up to be.
I think the point here is, we all pretty much agree that even with 
rotten coffee, they still, do sell other items, which ARE useful to us 
exhalted ones, as some would call our group.
and finally I think the point, at least as I see it is, their customer 
service seems sorely lacking in some areas, while others, say it's not 
too bad.
one other point I brought up is,  part of the above problem may be 
because they can't KEEP decent talent.  They attract employees, and 
those that do posess a talent and are decent with customers, know their 
'stuff', tend to quickly move on because while SB may initially attract 
these types, they do not take care of them sufficiently to KEEP them, 
and they move onto greener pastures.  Another point was that the 'type' 
of people they need, are simply not interested in what they offer, ties 
back in with the previous point.   When the truly talented moves on, you 
are stuck with what's left.
Aaron
Oh and another point... these are my points only, I do not claim they 
are your points, and while you may take my points and make them your 
points, please don't feel like I am pointing at you and demanding that 
my points are your points because that would be pointless.

8) From: National Prison Consultants
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Steve I understand and don't want to belabor the point (actually, probably I
do). I usually don't  mean to intentionally offend anyone, but remember how
this thread started:  I had a bad, but someone humorous, experience at *$
and posted the story.  As to the issue of rude employees of *$ that is my
experience.  I also firmly believe that corporate culture is a learned
trait. It is intended to be. When a perfectly "normal" teenagers (whatever
that means) works in a place where the corporate culture-----from top
down----involves creating an air of superiority and snobbiness---or what the
New Yorker calls "coffee prissiness" that individual learns those same
traits.  They learn to act as if they are the only folk on earth that knows
coffee.  They learn to "correct" you if you describe the coffee as bitter.
They learn to tell you that you need an educated palate when you suggest the
coffee tastes burnt. ("Sir it is not burnt it is a darker roast.  You may
want to consider some more cream.") They learn to make you feel that it is a
privilege to be served by a Barista-rather than the Kid Behind the Counter."
The fact remains that, in my opinion, *$ trains kids to act in what I
believe to be wholly inappropriate, condescending manner under the guise of
a corporate banner and philosophy.  
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Steve Hay
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 9:44 PM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +RE: $tarbucks now OT Rant
On 3/1/06, National Prison Consultants 
wrote:
Geary, Let me see if I understand:  You find this post "offensive" because
YOUR personal experience with *$ is different from mine or some other
members? There are many things to become offended over, but I suggest that 
This post is not singly directed towards you, John, even though I'm quoting
you for context.
In Geary's defense, I also found some of what was discussed in the thread a
bit offensive.  Saying that, I am not claiming any ability to censor.
People should speak their minds. 
However, beyond the "Starbucks Sucks" truism being discussed in the parent
thread, I found some of the general deragatory remarks towards our younger
members of society a bit disrespectful and misguided.  The fact that the *$
business model is more profitable when quality is reduced is not the person
behind the counter's fault. 
-- 
Steven Hay
hay.steve -AT- gmail.com 

9) From:
<Snip>
I did not see those remarks as a slap as a parent. There are a lot of little shits out there...
ginny
<Snip>

10) From:
Aaron was it the WEST COAST/east coast that got to you?
ginny
<Snip>
service" at charbucks. Perhaps it is how you go in and ask (you already know 
your homeroast is better so poop on the jerks at charbucks)
maybe it is a West Coast/east coast kind of thing.
I just don't see it here.
ginny<<<
<Snip>

11) From: Aaron
ginny it's jacksonville florida, and the area here.
so that would be east coast, but... maybe consider it a southern thing 
since east coast north, and east coast south, besides for the occasional 
inbreeding, are two entirely different worlds.
Aaron

12) From:
<Snip>
inbreeding<<<
say what???
ginny
<Snip>

13) From:
<Snip>
enjoyed about as much of this as I can stand...'<<<
Gene: I must say well said. I may not agree but well put.
ginny
<Snip>

14) From: Gene Smith
I think we've discovered a fantastic new heat source for roasting.  I'm 
also thinking it could be best harnessed by one of Ron Kyle's excellent 
drums...there's so little light being produced that not being able to see 
the roast shouldn't be a drawback.
I'm actually thinking very seriously about throwing some sort of insulating 
blanket over it, though...before it chars any valuable coffee beans.
Gene Smith
"As the tomcat said as he backed away from the skunk...'I believe I've 
enjoyed about as much of this as I can stand...' "

15) From: Brett Mason
Sorry Ginny, he's referring to OJ - who wanted to move to a locale
with only one set of DNA....
B
On 3/1/06, beanzebub  wrote:
<Snip>
l
<Snip>
scribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>
ribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>
--
Regards,
Brett Mason
 HomeRoast
      __]_
   _(( )_  Please don't spill the coffee!

16) From:
I always forget about OJ. My mother had to move to a hotel in Santa Monica because of the copters overhead during that sham.
ginny
<Snip>

17) From:
no not that...
ginny
<Snip>

18) From:
Zassman:
You need to be polite. Don't be nasty now. Your older sister will stop by a spank your butt!!
g
<Snip>

19) From: Aaron
Hey gin?  you know how all those stephen king movies with all the really 
wierd people, doing all the really wierd stuff, and the really .. 
twisted plots, all seem to take place in places like new england / rhode 
island etc.... Ive been to those places... there's a reason for that ;-)
Aaron

20) From: Brett Mason
I am still perplexed at the following...
National consulant
Researching Coffee
Goes to a Starbucks
Inquires of the manager
Is offended when the manager shares what she has learned
Decides to escalate the conversation to inflammatory derogatories
What gets me is that
  1. This does not appear the wisest way to research coffee.
  2. The store manager is at fault.
  3. You appear dissatisfied with the results you experienced.
  4. You seem threatened that others have different experience with Starbuc=
ks.
  5. You have experience with 98% of the installed base.
Perplexed.
Time for coffee...
Brett
  Zassin
On 3/1/06, National Prison Consultants
 wrote:
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*$
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on
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--
Regards,
Brett Mason
 HomeRoast
      __]_
   _(( )_  Please don't spill the coffee!

21) From: Brett Mason
I am sorry - I went where I shouldn't have gone.
AND I am pretty certain I and many others have gone off on a poorly
informed salesperson...
Apologies to all,
Brett
On 3/1/06, beanzebub  wrote:
<Snip>
 a spank your butt!!
<Snip>
rbucks.
<Snip>
bably I
<Snip>
er how
<Snip>
t *$
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s my
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tever
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tter.
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est the
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it is a
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unter."
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ise of
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cause
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quoting
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hread a
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parent
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unger
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the *$
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person
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scribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>
ribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>
--
Regards,
Brett Mason
 HomeRoast
      __]_
   _(( )_  Please don't spill the coffee!

22) From:
beerbong:
you guys left me about an hour ago. I plead dumb, spanked and tired.
love to all,
ginny
gota go watch si-fi
<Snip>

23) From: Aaron
but if he's from the south,  well we havent decided if it's south east, 
.. south east south north or east south... so lets just pick a place in 
the middle .. west virginia... and say,  he might like his sister 
spanking his butt !!
careful there gin.. don't want to go even further off topic.....
so to get back on topic do we need to start grumbling about starbucks 
again,,, and there are complaints that we no longer are?  hmm im 
confoozled now.

24) From: Jim Mitchell
Huh - I  in the house where Lovecraft wrote 'The Rats in the Walls'
Not only did I appreciate the source of his inspiration, I soon realised how 
much he had to edit ...
Jim

25) From: Justin Marquez
On 3/1/06, beanzebub  wrote:
<Snip>
larvae", a term I find exceptionally descriptive of the ones to whom you
refer.
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (Snyder, TX)http://www.justinandlinda.com

26) From: Randolph Wilson
<Snip>
As someone who has worked with kids quite a bit,  I have seen an 
amazing correlation between kids who are jerks and parents who are 
jerks.  It isn't 100% in either direction, but it comes close.  So 
many troubled kids are responding to parental situations, and so many 
"little snots" have parents who take the position that their child is 
never responsible for the situation.  I always love it when a group 
of people who really care about a child and what is going on with 
them get told that they are conspiring against the kid.  More likely 
we're conspiring against the parent ;-).  The nice thing is, when you 
manage to connect with these kids, most of them turn around and 
become pretty nice human beings.
take care,
Randy

27) From: Tom Bellhouse
Have you ever read a short horror tale called "The Beckoning Fair One"
by Oliver Onions?  Did you know that he was one of the editors of the
OED?  Or that he's pronounced "o-NI-ons" ?  More stuff for the trivia
mill ...
Tom in GA

28) From: Justin Marquez
On 3/2/06, Randolph Wilson  wrote:
<Snip>
I agree with you - kids surely learn a lot of their outlook on life from
their parents.  Of course, that ol' peer pressure thing is powerful, too.
Another friend of mine says our job is to just keep the adolescents alive
until they finally become human - typically somewhere between age 20 and 80=
.
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (Snyder, TX)http://www.justinandlinda.com


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