HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Acid (24 msgs / 565 lines)
1) From: Steve Hay
All,
What does "acid" taste like, anyways? e.g. what is a low-acid/high-acid
coffee?
--
Steven Hay
hay.steve -AT- gmail.com

2) From: Dan Bollinger
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
That's acid, as in the 'sour' the tongue tastes:  salt, sweet, sour, =
bitter.   'Acid' makes your lips purse.  'Bitter' makes your cheeks suck =
inward.  Lemon juice is acidic.  So are Kenyans.  Indonesian coffees are =
known to be low in acid.  That's why a lot of new coffee drinkers prefer =
them.   Dan

3) From: Steve Hay
Hmm...  So does acid go down or up with a darker roast?  I ask because some
coffees I roast light have sortof nutty bitter taste to them...
On 3/11/06, Dan Bollinger  wrote:
<Snip>
--
Steven Hay
hay.steve -AT- gmail.com

4) From: John Blumel
On Mar 11, 2006, at 9:53 pm, Dan Bollinger wrote:
<Snip>
... and umami.
John Blumel

5) From: Ed Needham
A good way to describe acidity in coffee is to think about some of the 
acidic substances in roasted coffee.  Most of the common household food type 
acids are in coffee, acetic (vinegar), citric (citrus), malic (apple), and 
many more.  As the roast progresses, many of the acids either burn off, 
neutralize or combine with other substances to make new flavors. 
Understanding this, more acidic flavors would be noted in a lighter roast 
than in a darker roast, with some exceptions.  Some acids actually increase 
as the roast progresses.  Most of the time those are bitter, sharp and 
undesirable in flavor, but can actually contribute to the overall flavor in 
small quantities to balance the sweetness.  Beer brewers do this with acidic 
hops to balance the sweet malt flavors.
If you sense a liveliness and cleanness in your brew, that is likely the 
result of acidity in the bean due to characteristics of the bean or the 
lightness of the roast.  If your brew is flat and dull, with long, lingering 
flavors, it is likely a low acid coffee or one roasted darker.
A Kenya or Yirg might be very acidic and even give you a citrusy flavor.  A 
Sumatra might just rumble over your tastebuds with dark chocolate and other 
moody flavors.  These are very broad generalizations to add clarity, but 
pretty much a good starting point for understanding acidity in coffee.
*********************
Ed Needham
"to absurdity and beyond!"
ed at homeroaster dot com
(include [FRIEND] somewhere in the subject line of any email correspondence)
*********************

6) From: Sue
Ed, You really have a nice logical way with flavor descriptions!  It really
helps make more sense out of it. I really have a hard time describing what =
I
taste.  Thanks for your input.
Sue
On 3/12/06, Ed Needham  wrote:
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d
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7) From: Dan Bollinger
<Snip>
Yep!  I didn't want to confuse the boy.  :)

8) From: Dan Bollinger
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Sue,  If you get a chance, take a wine tasting course.  I did and it =
helps with tasting flavors and identifying aromas in coffee, too.  Dan

9) From: Kit Anderson
John Blumel wrote:
<Snip>
... and metal.
Kit

10) From: Tom Bellhouse

11) From: Sue
On 3/12/06, Dan Bollinger  wrote:
<Snip>

12) From: Nelson, Frank
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
I would suggest that tasting anything cheese, salt, coffee, tea, soda,
potato chips, maple syrup, soy sauce, ice cream with someone who is
experienced in tasting and guiding you through tasting the nuance
flavors of it would be useful.  Tom's coffee tasting wheel may be useful
to you.  Some of the people who taught me to taste pointed out the first
thing to do is start at the middle of the wheel.  Is something acid,
bitter, sweet, etc..  Then ask yourself how would I describe the acid,
lemon, orange, grapefruit, apple, etc..  Then ask yourself specifically
what part of the lemon or fruit am I tasting lemon juice or lemon rind.
Someone else taught that part of tasting is enjoying the product so stop
analyzing and just drink it and enjoy.
 
My 2 cents.
Frank
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Sue
Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 8:47 AM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +Acid
 
 
On 3/12/06, Dan Bollinger  wrote: 
Sue,  If you get a chance, take a wine tasting course.  I did and it
helps with tasting flavors and identifying aromas in coffee, too.  Dan
Ohhhh......I wish I could! Unfortunately I get terrible headaches from
drinking wine. It sounds like it would help though. 
 
 
 

13) From: Justin Marquez
On 3/13/06, Sue  wrote:
<Snip>
Not to worry - the wine tasters usually spit it out after checking the
flavors.
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (Snyder, TX)http://www.justinandlinda.com

14) From: Mike Chester
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
  On 3/12/06, Dan Bollinger  wrote: 
    Sue,  If you get a chance, take a wine tasting course.  I did and it =
helps with tasting flavors and identifying aromas in coffee, too.  Dan
    Ohhhh......I wish I could! Unfortunately I get terrible headaches =
from drinking wine. It sounds like it would help though. 
  Sue,
  You probably have an allergy to sulphites.  Most wines have sulphites =
added in the fermentation process to prevent spoilage.  If you look, you =
can find sulphite free wines.  
  Also, you don't need to swallow the wine to taste it.  (Personally I =
can't see the point to this, but it is done)  I took a professional =
level class on wine and spirits a couple of years ago.  Part of the =
class was tasting wines.  There was a pregnant woman in class that did =
not want to consume alcohol and a woman whose religion prohibited =
tasting alcoholic beverages.  The pregnant woman tasted and spit out the =
wine and the other woman only smelled it.  Though I am sure that they =
missed some of the pleasure of swallowing the wine, they successufully =
completed the course.  
  BTW - I wish I could take a similar class in coffees and teas.  The =
wine class gives you some idea of what to look for, but not exactly.  
  Mike Chester
   

15) From: Dan Bollinger
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
The FDA requires the addition of sulfites as a preservative.  However, =
ALL wines made from grapes have sulfites naturally. Some even have the =
amount the FDA requires adding.  So, even though the label may say 'no =
sulfites added,' that doens't mean there aren't any.  Some people can =
drink white wines, but not reds.  Dan
    On 3/12/06, Dan Bollinger  wrote: 
      Sue,  If you get a chance, take a wine tasting course.  I did and =
it helps with tasting flavors and identifying aromas in coffee, too.  =
Dan
      Ohhhh......I wish I could! Unfortunately I get terrible headaches =
from drinking wine. It sounds like it would help though. 
    Sue,
    You probably have an allergy to sulphites.  Most wines have =
sulphites added in the fermentation process to prevent spoilage.  If you =
look, you can find sulphite free wines.  
    Also, you don't need to swallow the wine to taste it.  (Personally I =
can't see the point to this, but it is done)  I took a professional =
level class on wine and spirits a couple of years ago.  Part of the =
class was tasting wines.  There was a pregnant woman in class that did =
not want to consume alcohol and a woman whose religion prohibited =
tasting alcoholic beverages.  The pregnant woman tasted and spit out the =
wine and the other woman only smelled it.  Though I am sure that they =
missed some of the pleasure of swallowing the wine, they successufully =
completed the course.  
    BTW - I wish I could take a similar class in coffees and teas.  The =
wine class gives you some idea of what to look for, but not exactly.  
    Mike Chester
     

16) From: Kit Anderson
Here is an interesting link on wine and sulphites. Apparently, sulphites 
do not cause headaches. There is something else that is the culprit. 
Also, sulphites occur naturally in wine as a yeast by product. To check 
for sulfite sensitivity, eat a dried apricot and see what happens.http://waterhouse.ucdavis.edu/winecomp/so2.htmKit
<Snip>

17) From: Aaron
If you are getting headaches from wine it's probably from the tannic 
acids / tannins  in it.  Acedic  acid can leave you feeling crummy too.

18) From: Scot Murphy
On |Mar 13, at 7:47 AM|Mar 13, Sue wrote:
<Snip>
Have you tried sulfite-free wine? For a lot of people, that's the  
culprit.
Scot "that, and the hangover" Murphy
---
"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people  
maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of  
ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will  
always avail themselves for their own purposes."
	--Thomas Jefferson to Alexander von Humboldt, 1813. ME 14:21

19) From: Steve Hay
On 3/13/06, Nelson, Frank  wrote:
<Snip>
 of
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me
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.
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t,
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uit
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Is there a tasting wheel available online?  I bought the poster (heh, its
still in-tube--I have this weird thing about posters...  dont ever want to
de-tube them)
It would be a good resource anyways, if it were.
Meh, I should have probably googled before asking this, ah well.
--
Steven Hay
hay.steve -AT- gmail.com

20) From: Steve Hay
http://www.sweetmarias.com/tastewheel2.jpgfor the google challenged (me).
<Snip>
o
<Snip>
--
Steven Hay
hay.steve -AT- gmail.com

21) From: Dan Bollinger
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
I bought 4, so I could give a couple away and still have one on the wall =
and one in the tube.  They are copyrighted by the SCAA, so I don't =
imagine you will find a copy of one online anywhere.  Dan

22) From: Kit Anderson
No such thing. Yeast makes sulphites during fermentation..
Kit
Scot Murphy wrote:
<Snip>

23) From: Aaron
Sulphite free is a misleading statement.
Sulphites are produced by yeast, and even with micron filtering, you 
will still have some in the wine.
I have used DE filters and all kinds of stuff and while I can trap 
things down to close to half a micron in size, sulphites still come 
through..  You can't avoid it, it's just part of what the wine is.
Here's a link that might help teach more.http://www.winesofcanada.com/larchhill2.htmlAaron

24) From: Nelson, Frank
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
I apologize for my possibly misleading previous walk through the tasting
wheel.  I was not looking at a tasting wheel when I sent the message.
Looking at the tasting wheel listed below and following my previous
example here is how I would go.
 
Let's for the sake of argument say I am tasting a meyer lemon's
suspended rind (this is hypothetical) and juice.  
 
First case, lemon rind:
 
I taste something sweet.  I would now be on the second circle out.  Is
this sweet taste mellow or acid?  Mellow.  Next circle, mild or
delicate? Mild.
 
Second case, lemon juice:
 
I taste something sweet.  I would now be on the second circle out.  Is
this sweet taste mellow or acid?  Acid.  Next circle, piquant or nippy?
Piquant.
 
This is totally hypothetical.  The best way to go about this is find
someone who knows what the terms mean on the wheel you are using and
walk through a few examples.  Then practice.  Taste a bunch of different
things for the sake of taste exploration and education (this by the way
is not always pleasant) by yourself and with others.  You could also
just taste things with friends and develop your own definitions of what
things mean. The difficulty with this second option is if you want to
talk to anyone else about what you taste.  And always remember to have
fun (as much a reminder to myself as anyone else).
 
Frank
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Steve Hay
Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 9:14 PM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +Acid
 http://www.sweetmarias.com/tastewheel2.jpgfor the google challenged
(me).
	 
	Is there a tasting wheel available online?  I bought the poster
(heh, its still in-tube--I have this weird thing about posters...  dont
ever want to de-tube them) 
	
	It would be a good resource anyways, if it were.
	
	Meh, I should have probably googled before asking this, ah well.
	
	-- 
	Steven Hay
	hay.steve -AT- gmail.com 
-- 
Steven Hay
hay.steve -AT- gmail.com 


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