HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Is the taste of coffee subjective? (62 msgs / 1267 lines)
1) From: Maryann & Dave Schellenberg
In another thread, someone said:
    I'd put what I make in a Chemex up against any method.  Of course
    all methods are different, and taste is subjective, so all bets are
    off as to what you like, but I have never needed to apologize for my
    Chemex brew to anyone.
I'm not naming the writer, nor replying to that thread, because I just 
want to use this as an example of something that gets stated here quite 
often in one form or another: "Taste is subjective, so don't ever say 
that one coffee is better or worse than another."
I'm going to be controversial, and say that in general, I disagree with 
the statement. Yes, there are exceptions; some people like coffee that 
is inferior. But people on this list are here because we agree with the 
objective quality of Tom's choices in coffee beans.
I recently got an Aerobee AeroPress coffee maker. I find that it makes 
coffee that has more body (creamier) and more flavour than what I get 
from my Swiss Gold One-Cup. In fact, I would say that it makes coffee 
that has more body and more flavour than any of the other methods at my 
disposal (I don't have an espresso maker). I have never heard anyone say 
that they prefer coffee that is thin and low on flavour. These qualities 
are objective rather than subjective.
Of course there are differences as to whether we like our coffee more 
acidic, or clean, or earthy, or fruity or any number of other taste 
attributes. But I would bet that if we all walked into a coffee shop and 
ordered coffee, we would agree to the 90th percentile on whether the 
coffee was good or mediocre.
So please, let's stop saying things like the above quote, and be more 
willing to say "This cup is better than that one".
Dave S.
******* Let the flaming begin *******
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2) From: Aaron Peterson
On 4/1/06, Maryann & Dave Schellenberg  wrote:
<Snip>
<Snip>
I'm pretty sure we're just going to let you say what you want, then we
are going to say what we want.  I'm pretty sure even the person you
quoted above stated their opinion clearly in the text you quoted. 
Some folks might like coffee from their press better than the chemex. 
  Who cares?  Who on this list doesn't say "this cup is better than
that one?"  Our presence on this list pretty much states exactly that
:-)
Aaron "who should probably not fan the flame" Peterson
Versailles, KY

3) From: National Prison Consultants
Ok Dave, I will bite.....
I don't think that there is any possible way to objectify coffee taste and
categorically state that one is better than another particularly when you
get into high quality greens.  My coffee preferences and yours are certainly
different based on what I like. But to conclusively state that one coffee is
"better" than another (once you are at a certain quality level, is not
possible.  Certainly *$ is "better" than  most gas station coffee, and most
HRers brew a "better cup than *$.  This is not to say that *$ is bad coffee,
just not my cup o' joe.  Indeed, many might even go so far as to argue that
Folgers is "better" than Maxwell House, but you and I would posit that they
both barely qualify as coffee. Even Tom's rankings and scoring are
subjective based on his discerning taste of certain flavor, aromatics etc.
His scoring is his opinion of where that coffee ranks relative to
others---but filtered (no pun intended) through a subjective analysis.  I
would concur that all of SM's coffees are "better" than Folgers, et al., but
I don't think anyone could reasonably and objectively state that the CR Tres
Rios is "better" than, for instance, the El Salvador Finca El Carmen.
Taste, like beauty, is often in the eye of the beholder.
In another thread, someone said:
    I'd put what I make in a Chemex up against any method.  Of course
    all methods are different, and taste is subjective, so all bets are
    off as to what you like, but I have never needed to apologize for my
    Chemex brew to anyone.
I'm not naming the writer, nor replying to that thread, because I just 
want to use this as an example of something that gets stated here quite 
often in one form or another: "Taste is subjective, so don't ever say 
that one coffee is better or worse than another."
I'm going to be controversial, and say that in general, I disagree with 
the statement. Yes, there are exceptions; some people like coffee that 
is inferior. But people on this list are here because we agree with the 
objective quality of Tom's choices in coffee beans.
I recently got an Aerobee AeroPress coffee maker. I find that it makes 
coffee that has more body (creamier) and more flavour than what I get 
from my Swiss Gold One-Cup. In fact, I would say that it makes coffee 
that has more body and more flavour than any of the other methods at my 
disposal (I don't have an espresso maker). I have never heard anyone say 
that they prefer coffee that is thin and low on flavour. These qualities 
are objective rather than subjective.
Of course there are differences as to whether we like our coffee more 
acidic, or clean, or earthy, or fruity or any number of other taste 
attributes. But I would bet that if we all walked into a coffee shop and 
ordered coffee, we would agree to the 90th percentile on whether the 
coffee was good or mediocre.
So please, let's stop saying things like the above quote, and be more 
willing to say "This cup is better than that one".
Dave S.
******* Let the flaming begin *******
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4) From: Peter Zulkowski
Okay, I'll bite.
My coffee is better than your coffee.
The way I roast it is better than the way you roast.
My cup is better than your cup.
My way of cooling is better than yours.
Any way I brew my coffee, it is always better than yours.
Wow! It hurts to say that stuff.
Here in LHC I am usually perfectly willing to let anyone think anyway 
they want to about their coffee,
or my coffee.
or *$ or even vacuum packed pre - ground,
pre- staled canned coffee.
Even Instant Coffee.
But I could not resist.
The truth is the truth.
You can even use cafe broullet, or plain cream and sugar.
Use Irish Whiskey in your coffee.
Add chocolate.
Stir it with a cinnamon stick!
It does not matter.
Mine is still better.
Wanna see?
Stop by and have a cup sometime :)
PeterZ
Ducking now behind a fire proof wall, here in LHC.
Maryann & Dave Schellenberg wrote:
<Snip>

5) From: Aaron
Personally I really could care less what other folks think of a coffee.  
If I like it, I am going to buy it and roast more of it and drink more 
of it.  Then again, everyone can rant and rave about a certain bean ones 
self included,  but if I bugger it up roasting it, it's going to taste 
like a civet pellet from juan valdez' donkey.  So the taste is going to 
not only  be subjective to the taster but the roasting method too.
I will comment on your swissgold statement that it's not full bodied 
enough.  Have you tried possibly a finer grind in it.  I find that a 
finer grind can bring out more of what some would call 'body' to the 
coffee, but it's a fine line so one doesn't start getting bitter, or 
worse, stalling.
Overall though, I believe that people expect certain 'attributes' to the 
taste of a coffee from a certain area.  Each locale has it's own unique 
signature for lack of a better way to describe it.  Therefore with that 
in mind, yes, a cup CAN be better than another if it exhibits more of 
that 'signature flavor' than another cup, or is easier to get that 
signature than another cup etc etc.
Ill go get the lighter fluid for the BBQ  heh.
Aaron

6) From: National Prison Consultants
Ok. Aaron, fess up.  How do you know what anything tastes like coming from
Juan Yaldez' donkey.
"Then again, everyone can rant and rave about a certain bean ones 
self included,  but if I bugger it up roasting it, it's going to taste 
like a civet pellet from juan valdez' donkey."

7) From: Michael Dhabolt
Peter,
<Snip>
That's the way!!  I like someone who is committed to their
convictions, or is that convicted for his commissions - - hhmmmm.
BTW, given the opportunity, I'd love to.
Mike (just plain)

8) From: Aaron
How do I know what a donkey pellet might taste like.... easy...
the maxwell house plant is a few miles away from where I live.... when 
one drives by you can smell that roasting smell there..... even the 
smell of the stuff roasting is not entirely pleasant....
now folks say that most of taste, is smell.... hence when you have a 
cold things taste bland, because your smell is stuffed up...
Ive smelled crap before,  ive smelled maxwell house roasting before and 
brewing... hence I can do the association and kind of get an idea what 
it might taste like.... crap/coffee..... and since a certain commercial 
shows ones coffee arriving on the back of a burro well......
this is my story and im sticking to durnit!!
Aaron

9) From: National Prison Consultants
Aaron:  I knew you would provide a detailed, probably very accurate and
always entertaining answer..... Thanks for the visuals.
John Webster

10) From: Woody DeCasere
TAste of coffee subjective? I guess it depends on the subject.
There is good coffee and there is bad coffee i think we all can agree on
that, as for what good coffee we like best, that is subjective.
--
"Good night, and Good Coffee"

11) From: Maryann & Dave Schellenberg
Woody DeCasere wrote:
<Snip>
Might be.
But if you tell me a technique that will make your coffee taste better, 
and if it is so subjective, then why would I try to duplicate your 
improvement?
Why wouldn't I just write it off, and say, well, that's just Woody's taste?
Dave S.
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12) From:
Dave:
Great post. I have had thi conversation so many times.
Coffee, or almost anything, is a matter of taste. Personal taste.
Kinda like someone saying, "I know what I like," No you like what you know!!
have a great Sunday
<Snip>

13) From: Maryann & Dave Schellenberg
I can't disagree that coffee is a matter of taste.
The thing is, homeroasters have learned to like the *same* tastes in coffee.
If that were not the case, why would we be on this list telling each 
other about a wonderful new Kenya, or the fantastic blueberries in the 
Harrar?
The obvious answer is that we know that most of the readers will agree, 
once they have tried it.
Dave S.
pchforever wrote:
<Snip>
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14) From:
<Snip>
The thing here is Dave that we don't always agree on what "we get" from our homeroasted. I give my next door folks all kinds of coffee, they taste, they drink/use all even if they don't love it but their take is usually different from list members. I know they love "fresh coffee" because before I went on vacation they asked if I could roast them some, I already had butI digress...
As list members we are a very incestuous group. We have the
knowledge Tom's experience plus this list to chat back and forth with/about what we buy. Gosh I don't taste 1/2 the stuff some find in their roasted beans. I used to look for it but I have left that behind since I feel it damaged my own roasting ability and what "I" got from my greens.
Have a great Sunday,
ginny
the exception is the horse, my bluberries come out loud and clear, for me...
<Snip>

15) From: J.W.Bullfrog
pchforever wrote:
<Snip>
In fact I don't even try. But then I would discuss the arcane details of 
profiling, etc..
forever.

16) From:
J W:
Hey, I am not alone out there in roastland...
<Snip>
you had to be polictical on a Sunday no less!!
love,
ginny
<Snip>

17) From: J.W.Bullfrog
pchforever wrote:
<Snip>
only the political would take it that way.. ;-)
<Snip>
-- 
There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers 
exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will 
instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more 
bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another theory which states that this has already happened.

18) From: Jim Mitchell
One believes he meant:
"Bean Profiling'
not
"Has-been Profiling" .....
:>
Jim

19) From: Ed Needham
It is beyond my comprehension how someone could prefer thin, tasteless 
coffee to well roasted and brewed homeroast.
It is my experience that 'many, many' people prefer thin tasteless coffee to 
bold, flavorful coffee.  Just take a look at the biggest five coffee 
roasters in the world.
For example, I could never get my dad to prefer my stronger, more flavorful 
coffee to his weak, watery, storebought preground, brewed in a Mr. Coffee. 
It was very frustrating to me.  In retrospect, I should have just recognized 
that his familiarity and association with the way he's enjoyed coffee for 
years overrides other factors of taste and perception when it comes to 
personal preference.
In the same vein, take a look at the companies that brew the thinnest, most 
tasteless beer.  Is it 'better' than an Imperial Stout or a well crafted 
porter?  They sure sell a lot of that bland, tasteless, fizzy yellow stuff.
Taste is 'totally' subjective.  There is no way to scientifically quantify 
or compare how one individual experiences even the most basic tastes of 
sweet, sour, salty or bitter.  Sure, they can test whether people can 
identify those flavors, but there is no comparative way to measure how those 
tastes are experienced.
Personal preference is so diversified that I doubt I could 'ever' find 
another human that likes 'all' the same things I do.
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"
ed at homeroaster dot com
(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************

20) From: Ed Needham
It might be that many of us here have similar tastes in coffee as compared 
to the rest of the population.
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"
ed at homeroaster dot com
(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************

21) From:
Jim:
We be no "has been", older perhaps please watch your language. JW, we all know him and he is a political animal!!
ginny
<Snip>

22) From:
<Snip>
coffee to well roasted and brewed homeroast.>>>
Ed, I agree but most of the world only knows thin swill.
I cannot, even in desparation drink "it".
ginny
<Snip>

23) From:
<Snip>
to the rest of the population.<<<
Ed,
We are the fortunate few who have involved ourselves in real coffee. My dear great, great grandmother Dutchie was said to have made coffee that could walk across the table by itself!
I have a passion for robust, bold coffee so perhaps it is in the genes!
ginny
<Snip>

24) From: Maryann & Dave Schellenberg
Ed Needham wrote:
<Snip>
A friend of mine comes over once a week to help me translate my mother's 
diaries into English. I brew him a coffee every time. He never comments 
on it.
Last week I used the Chemex, and commented to him that I was using a new 
method. His comment: "Coffee is coffee". :-(
Some people just don't believe that a better taste experience is worth 
spending money on. Another friend of mine knew I was into coffee, and 
complained to me that the only decaf he could get from his supplier was 
Colombian. So I roasted him three different varieties of decaf. He liked 
them. But when I told him that the coffee I  roasted had cost about 
cda$10 / lb, he said, "Oh, I get mine for $5". So be it.
<Snip>
I think I have some understanding of this as well.
On our way to Fargo, ND one time we stopped for dinner in Grand Forks. 
Applebee's was busy so we sat at the bar. I had a Samuel Adams Dark Ale 
(for the first time) and commented to the bartender about the great 
flavour. His reply was, "Yes, but you can't drink a six-pack of them in 
one sitting". Which is true, but beside the point for me. The second 
beer is never as good as the first. And if you're drinking for the 
effect, or to fill an evening, it's easier if it's thin and tasteless.
Dave S.
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25) From:
Dave:
<Snip>
Cleraly I understand what your are saying. I don't know if the two beer v. coffee is a reasonable comparison.
It all still boils down to a matter of personal taste.
Period.
ginny
<Snip>

26) From: Michael Wascher
I've given beans to a friend who really enjoys the different coffees. For
Christmas I gave her some greens & a popper. She has a half dozen different
cinnamons & vanillas in her cupboard. I also introduced her to different
honeys, and she now has several different varieties.
Her sister can't tell the difference between a good cup of coffee & Folgers=
.
Her mother visited, commented on the jars of honey, tasted but couldn't tel=
l
one from another. They were just sweet.
It might be inherited, my friend was adopted.
--MikeW
On 4/2/06, Maryann & Dave Schellenberg  wrote:
<Snip>
--
"Life is just one damned thing after another."
  - Elbert Hubbard

27) From: Aaron
It was written:
As list members we are a very incestuous group
==============
Hey, you be nice or Ill tell aunt mom on you!!
I may be inciteful but not incestual.... im not THAT far down south... 
Aaron

28) From: Jim Mitchell
Count your fingers, Bubba - and say that again?
:>
Jim

29) From:
very funny Aaron,
you have your auntie come on over...
how "down South" are you???
ginny
<Snip>

30) From:
Jim:
Great response, you have been watching way too may X Files!
ginny
<Snip>

31) From: Scott Marquardt
"Coffee is coffee"
I winced when I noted that phrase -- it's too accurate a characterization o=
f
some folks, though.
The best retort depends on who's saying it. If they're an avid duck hunter,
point to your KFC and say "poultry is poultry." If they like golf, footbal,
or soccer, "sports is sports." If they liked a recent Oscar-winning film,
"Movies are all the same." If they spent time preparing a really good roast=
,
"beef is beef, Edna -- you should've just fried us a few sliders." If they
just bought a new Jaguar, offer to take them for a ride in your "comparable=
"
Pontiac mini-van.    ;-)
It's possible to make the point gently, but it's funner to contemplate ways
to soundly drive the point home.   ;-)
--
Scott

32) From:
Scott:
coffee is not coffee but what the hell is 
<Snip>
ginny
<Snip>

33) From: Barry Luterman
White Castle Hamburgers

34) From: Michael Wascher
What, no White Castle where you are?!http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=white+castle+slideOn 4/2/06, pchforever  wrote:
<Snip>
--
"Life is just one damned thing after another."
  - Elbert Hubbard

35) From: Aaron
If I count my fingers,  do I count the ones that are webbed together as 
two,  or do I count them as one, like my eyebrow?
im from jacksonville florida gin, so ok i kind of lied.... i am that far 
south but it's the *northern* part of the state.. yeah that sounds good :)
we don't have white castles down here ... we call them crystals... same 
gut bomb though..... interesting thing is, almost everyone you talk to 
claims to hate white castles yet they sell millions if not billions each 
year...ok to who?
Aaron

36) From: Ed Needham
You're not far enough south.  You couldn't handle it.
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"
ed at homeroaster dot com
(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************

37) From: Aaron
ed, actually sliders are a northern thing too.  now the bubba burger, 
THAT is southern..... and possibly toxic as well but ill leave that 
alone.... for now.
Aaron

38) From: Ed Needham
White Castle is now officially calling them Slyders® per the WC web site. 
Yes, they have a web site.  As far as restaurant coffee is concerned, they 
always sell fairly decent coffee.
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"
ed at homeroaster dot com
(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************

39) From: Barry Luterman
White Castle is an eastern phenomenon. Don't think there are any west of 
Chicago and Kansas City. But then to me California is an eastern phenomenon.

40) From: Woody DeCasere
funny thing is there are no white castles i know of in the Philly area,
wierd.
On 4/3/06, Barry Luterman  wrote:
<Snip>
--
"Good night, and Good Coffee"

41) From: Aaron
White Castle is now officially calling them Slyders® per the WC web site.
=======
Ok now that is just funny.  We have been calling them sliders for oh 
god, at least 30 years that I know of... and the term slider isn't 
exactly an endearing description either hehe.
I wonder what took them so long to get the patent on the name slyder or 
they finally decided to just go with it or what....  I do notice that it 
is not spelled slider.. as a correct spelling should be, which makes me 
wonder if there is something else in there too.....
You know you are in trouble when you can find frozen sliders in the winn 
dixie or whatever store i seen those in... now im sorry but that is 
truly scary.
aaron

42) From: Aaron
barry,  might want to expand that to say west of illinois... there are 
some west of chicago...that much I do know however.as for crossing state 
lines after that i honestly dont know.  I would say something about 
where I think i remember seeing one but my geography aint the greatest 
this late so I better shut up before i go and say something stupid like 
california is on the east coast....
oh and whitey one bites is another name fer em :)  magical instant add 
water onions and all.
aaron

43) From: Brett Mason
There's a White Castle 1 hour west of Chicago, in Carol Stream - so they di=
d
get west of Chicago...  Unfortunately they haven't made it to Iowa :-(
Brett
On 4/2/06, Barry Luterman  wrote:
<Snip>
--
Regards,
Brett Mason
HomeRoast
      __]_
   _(( )_  Please don't spill the coffee!

44) From: Dan Bollinger
<Snip>
Well, I couldn't handle the sugar.  Southern Cookin' is just plain food with one 
cup of sugar added.  To everything!
;)    Dan

45) From:
<Snip>
    White Castle is an eastern phenomenon. Don't think there are any west of
    Chicago and Kansas City. But then to me California is an eastern phenomenon.>>>
California and Eastern phenomenon...
very funny!
ginny

46) From: Scott Marquardt
Are you in the area? I'm in Cicero and work in Aurora. I have a Fed-Ex
package marooned in Carol Stream just this morning, and I get old PCs we us=
e
as terminals from a recycler there.
-- Scott
On 4/3/06, Brett Mason  wrote:
<Snip>
(
<Snip>

47) From: Brett Mason
I am 3 hours west of there.  But staying in Carol Stream for a conference,
there was a White Castle on the corner, providing a wonderful buffet of itt=
y
bitty burgers - or similar....
You're always welcome at my place on IA (goes for *everyone* on list)
Brett
On 4/3/06, Scott Marquardt  wrote:
<Snip>
use
<Snip>
y
<Snip>
:-(
<Snip>
--
Regards,
Brett Mason
HomeRoast
   ...who wants to sell his Silvia and pursue an espresso machine upgrade..=
.

48) From: Scott Marquardt
Company business may get me partway there in coming months. Any excuse will
do!
Travels to Madison, SD, used to take me via 30 before haste made 90 my
habit. A "howdy" stop might steer me back toward 30, if you're in them
parts.
Heck, honestly, I took 30 west last summer for old times sake and I'll
probably go that way more anyway. Gotta slow down. Gotta.
:-)
On 4/3/06, Brett Mason  wrote:
<Snip>

49) From: Brett Mason
Hi Scoot,
Cmon over - Cedar Rapids is on the 30, and we have a guest room and big
kitchen in the new house!  My stash keeps growing, no matter how much I
roast (Anybody, please advise!), and I've many ways to roast and brew...
Cheers,
Brett
On 4/3/06, Scott Marquardt  wrote:
<Snip>
ul
<Snip>
--
Regards,
Brett Mason
HomeRoast
   ...who wants to sell his Silvia and pursue an espresso machine upgrade..=
.

50) From: Angelo
It seems to be an American phenomenon. I know 
many people from other countries who consider 
American coffee as more of a tea. I would venture 
to think that the term for the coffee I drink, an 
Americano, has a bit of a derogatory meaning behind it.
A+
<Snip>
 do.
<Snip>

51) From: J.W.Bullfrog
Angelo wrote:
<Snip>
Angelo,
You may know this, but the story I hear is that during WWII, the 
italians would water down espresso for american GI's so that they could 
have a cup o Joe.  Thats how it got the name as an americano.

52) From:
OOOOOOOOOOOO-0,,,,, who's talkin' bad 'bout bubba burgers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  lol
Steve W.  (South o the mason dixon)
<Snip>

53) From: Maryann & Dave Schellenberg
Well, perhaps I should save my "trolls" (that's for you, Angelo) for the 
alt.coffee list.
There, today, Jim Schulman wrote:
    Taste is only subjective for those who insist on being solipsistic
    about it. If you decide taste is a social fact, you'll have no problem
    sitting down with a group of fellow coffee lovers and deciding what's
    good and what sucks.
Nice to get some support for my point of view somewhere.
Dave S.
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54) From: Brent - SC/TO Roasting
But the same group of people can also disagree over the quality of
"goodness" or "suckiness" of self-same coffee.  His statement, without
any context, provides no information or guidance.  In fact, a quick
troll through his blog would indicate he has a healthy dose of
solipsism himself.  Qualities of taste can be agreed upon, but taste
is affected on an individual level by genetics and environment.
As an analogy, how many times have you had a dinner that was good "but
you've had better"?  I think that applies to this discussion.  Many
people seem to love Harrar and enjoy the blueberry notes.  Blueberries
taste awful to me.  Doesn't mean the coffee is bad, just not my taste.
 So for me, the Harrar may be good, but I've had better.  Ditto with
other things.  White chocolate makes me physically ill, other
chocolate doesn't.
--
Brent
Sceptically solipsistic and awaiting further proof
Roasting in an SC/TO & i'Roast2
On 4/4/06, Maryann & Dave Schellenberg  wrote:
<Snip>
m
<Snip>

55) From: Brett Mason
Brent,
You obviously have no taste.
OTOH, my problem might come out with enough psychoanalysis...
Still, I don't "get" Kona and the love therein...
Brett
  who also may lack taste...
On 4/4/06, Brent - SC/TO Roasting  wrote:
<Snip>
e
<Snip>
--
Regards,
Brett Mason
HomeRoast
   ...who wants to sell his Silvia and pursue an espresso machine upgrade..=
.

56) From: Maryann & Dave Schellenberg
If you're saying, "Most homeroasters think the 'Blueberry Haarrar' is 
good quality coffee, but it doesn't appeal to me", then we agree.
I'm really trying to say that *most* homeroasters agree on whether a 
given cup of coffee is good or sucks. Enough so that we can make 
generalized statements, "This cup is better than that cup", without 
always having to put the disclaimer, "But that's just me".
And those people who are at the edges of the bell curve, and whose 
experience tells them, "no, this cup is not better than that cup" can 
still enjoy knowing and stating their distinctiveness. It's not logical 
for someone in the centre of the bell curve to tell someone on one of 
the edges that they're wrong. But recognizing the common factors is 
worth while.
Dave S.
Brent - SC/TO Roasting wrote:
<Snip>
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57) From: Aaron
and the point of that was?????
we don't want coffee's with good taste.......
we want coffee's that taste good.....
so there...
aaron

58) From: Angelo
There are some very learned minds who think that all of reality is 
subjective - taste being a subset of reality. Just remember what my 
ancestors used to say: "De gustibus non disputandum est"
Of course, EVERYONE agrees with me that Theolonius Monk was a musical 
genius, right?
A=
<Snip>

59) From: Aaron
You want to talk perceptions fine lets do that.
I am a normal visioned person.  so I am lead to believe...
You lets pretend are color blind...
I see an orange... it's ... orange... gee immogene that.....
to you though that orange... by my standards is a greenish color (or 
whatever it shows up).
so to your eyes. that 'green' color you see.... you have been told is 
'orange'..... so in your mind that green  'is' orange...
even though by my 'rules' your vision is flawed....and it is green that 
you see.... but how do you know for sure. since you never really seen a 
true orange....... and how do I know for sure, since you never really 
did have 'accurate' vision to begin with to tell me what you think you 
see....  maybe it's the 99 percent of US that are flawed and YOU are the 
one who genuinely sees the true color.....
My definition of orange is radically different from yours.
confusing... good I hoped it would be.
the point being.... what one may like, another may hate...
genetics can play games with us all, so what may taste like A to you, 
may taste like B to me...
I remember in high school we had to taste some paper strips... a gene 
that folks carried, inherited,   would determine if we tasted it as 
being bitter, or no taste at all.
who's to say that similar stuff don't happen all over the taste spectrum?
Bottom line, it doesn't matter which self proclaimed expert says 
something is good or bad... if YOU like it, then it is good, if YOU do 
not like it.... then it's not so good.  What I call 'x' taste, you may 
not even be physically able to taste at all,so all the ranting, and 
descriptives in the world I may give, are totally meaningless to you really.
I think people just need to enjoy something that taste good to them and 
not worry so much if they 'fit in' with whatever crowd is trying to 
'judge' the taste to be a specific way or not.   Stick two cinnamon 
sticks up your nose and the taste is all different anyways.
Aaron

60) From: Ed Needham
I don't think I need to be solipsistic to think taste is subjective.
(wink)
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"
ed at homeroaster dot com
(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************

61) From: Justin Marquez
On 4/5/06, Angelo  wrote:
<Snip>
Only 'round midnite...
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (Snyder, TX)http://www.justinandlinda.com

62) From: raymanowen
Solipsism is not all it's cracked up to be- I have my doubts. Coffee flavor
is always a new experience for me. Makes me sad to realize just what is
going on when Big Coffee has to dumb down the flavor of great harvests to
keep the flavor of their canned Scheisse even with the keel.
Someone, somewhere is trying to perfect a digital flavor analyzer. When it'=
s
complete, it can't issue evaluations based on its own floating point data
processing. It would need calibration, and any flavor of less than
2.718would be assigned the Newspeak expletive [Out]house blend.
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
--
"When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the Might=
y
Wichita WurliTzer


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