HomeRoast Digest


Topic: New HotTop Roaster (44 msgs / 1556 lines)
1) From: George Steinert
If you're less than thrilled with the Gene Cafe, maybe this information I
just received about the new HotTop Roaster will pique your interest.  Too
bad you apparently can't modify the temp during the roast.
 	According to HotTop, it will have
	- liquid panel display
	- programmable temperature and time
	- display, store, and compare roasting profile
	- time and temperature display
	Almost here, can you wait for another 3 to 6 months?
	Michael  (at HotTop) 
I've waited this long, what's another 6 months!!
George Steinert
Sacramento, CA

2) From: Espressoperson
In a message dated 4/19/2006 10:07:38 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
n6zs writes:
Too
bad you apparently can't modify the temp during the  roast.
George,
 
Thanks for passing on the hottop information. Perhaps you've already told  us 
as much as you know, but can you or your source elaborate:
 
What I would like to do is prolong the time after 1st and before start of  
2nd. So as 1st starts and peaks I would like to regulate the temperature to  
prevent the start of 2nd for a few minutes. Are you saying I could only set a  
program to guess at that with advance profile setting rather than adjust  
settings during the roast?
 
It still _might_ be possible to do that by programming  the temperature since 
my digital readings for start and end of 1st and  start of 2nd have been 
pretty predictable and repeatable from roast to  roast. (BTW, time is not quite as 
consistent as temperature from roast to  roast.) But it would be better to 
control it directly during the  roast.
 
Who likes to wait? But the standard hottop roasted Monkey  Blend tastes so 
good now, it's hard to believe it could improve  much with the ability to tweak 
profiles. 
 
MichaelB

3) From: Robert Avery
Did they say that the new panel will be compatable with the conventional 
unit like now. You can upgrade the panel as you know to the digital from the 
stand. panel. ???? would be nice to have a little bit more control .... 
stilll does a good job though. Later, Bob
<Snip>

4) From: Steve Hay
On 4/21/06, Robert Avery  wrote:
<Snip>
I wonder if the interface could be reverse engineered such that you could
make your own control panel?  Hmm..
--
Steven Hay
hay.steve -AT- gmail.com
Barry Paradox: Consider k to be the greatest element of the set of natural
numbers whose description require maximum of 50 words: "(k+1) is a natural
number which requires more than 50 words to describe it."

5) From: javafool
And I just replaced my 3 year old, more frequently misbehaving, Hottop with a new one. Oh well, I liked the first one so much that maybe 3 or 4 years from now they will have something new and even more exciting.
Terry
Quote:
<Snip>

6) From: DJ Garcia
Hmmm ... time to start saving up ... mine's just over three years old
and I've been wanting a back-up unit ... of course the old one would be
the back-up ...

7) From: Maryann & Dave Schellenberg
I haven't previously paid any attention to who was in the Hottop club.
I have just joined this week, having purchased a one-year-old used 
digital-panel model.
I've read the material that's out there on SweetMaria's and Randy 
Glass's site.
Any other great hints you wish you'd known when you started?
Right now I'm wondering what you do about back-to-back roasts, given 
that the Hottop's behaviour is different for the second roast.
Dave S.
DJ Garcia wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.4/320 - Release Date: 4/20/2006

8) From: Michael Guterman
Maryann & Dave Schellenberg wrote:
<Snip>
I let my unit (an original) cool for half an hour between roasts.  That 
seems to make it pretty consistent.  I always end the roast manually.
Michael
<Snip>

9) From: Barry Luterman
If you have the digital. Then when you program the time for the second roast 
if the chamber is over 160 degrees only the fan will come on until it cools 
to 160 then it will beep for you to add the beans and the heating coil will 
come on.

10) From: DJ Garcia
Unfortunately I don't do back-to-back roasts, though there are several
techniques floating if you search the archives. I barely do 1-2 roasts a
week :-)
Since you're new, you may want to check out and download my roasting
database app - requires MS Access 2000 or higher. Here's a link:http://improbablystructuredlayers.net/CoffeeRoastingDB/CRDBHome.htm

11) From: Terry Stockdale
At 09:34 PM 4/21/2006, you wrote:
<Snip>
I've written some about my Hottop experience on the Hottop pages on 
my web site (link below)
My trick on back-to-back isn't there (I just looked), so I need to add that.
When you eject a batch, pull the chaff tray.  Then, pull the bean 
chute cover and pull out the rear filter _most_ of the way.  IN THAT 
ORDER -- or you'll suck the chaff out of the tray into the Hottop!
That process will cool the Hottop quickly, even in a Baton Rouge 
summer.  Sometimes that was cool enough that the next heating cycle 
would start immediately after I pressed the Start button.  Usually, 
though, when I started the Hottop again, it continued a cooling cycle 
for another 3.5 minutes.
My cold startup was about 4.5-5.0 minutes from start to "add the 
beans BEEP."  With the cooling from the increased airflow of pulling 
the chaff tray, bean chute cover and rear filter, the start to "add 
the beans BEEP" was about the same.
Without this process, I saw my Hottop take from 10 to 25 minutes to 
cool enough that it would start the next heating cycle.
--
Terry Stockdale -- Baton Rouge, LA
My Coffee Pages:http://www.terrystockdale.com/hottopMy RK Drum pages:  http://www.terrystockdale.com/rkdrum">http://www.terrystockdale.com/coffeeMy Hottop pages:http://www.terrystockdale.com/hottopMy RK Drum pages:  http://www.terrystockdale.com/rkdrum

12) From: Maryann & Dave Schellenberg
As I went to your site to have a look, I realized that I had been there 
already, but had paid most of my attention to the RK Drum descriptions.
Two questions:
1. When you follow the cooling procedure below, does that result in the 
same degree of roast to the same beans at the same settings? Seems that 
some people on alt.coffee are suggesting they get a lighter roast the 
second time. I don't know how they prep it, though.
2. Can you tell the difference in taste between the same bean roasted on 
the RK Drum and in the Hottop? If so, how would you describe the difference.
Dave S.
Terry Stockdale wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.5/322 - Release Date: 4/22/2006

13) From: Mike Chester
<Snip>
Terry,
I have been meaning to thank you for this advice.  When I got my Hottop 
several months ago, you gave me the same suggestion.  I have been using this 
procedure since then and it works flawlessly.  I always use this method, 
even when not doing an additional batch.  I would highly recommend its use.
Mike Chester

14) From: Terry Stockdale
At 08:54 AM 4/24/2006, you wrote:
<Snip>
Cool.  Great to know it helped.
--
Terry Stockdale -- Baton Rouge, LA
My Coffee Pages:http://www.terrystockdale.com/hottopMy RK Drum pages:  http://www.terrystockdale.com/rkdrum">http://www.terrystockdale.com/coffeeMy Hottop pages:http://www.terrystockdale.com/hottopMy RK Drum pages:  http://www.terrystockdale.com/rkdrum

15) From: Terry Stockdale
At 10:43 PM 4/23/2006, you wrote:
<Snip>
I used the digital thermometer & thermocouple that SM sells.  I 
snaked the thermocouple through the bean chute into the bean mass -- 
and I ejected at the temperature of my choice.  For most beans for 
drip, that was 458degreesF.  For espresso and for Uganda Bugisu 
(which I used at the same roast for espresso, for drip and for vacuum 
pot), that was 463degrees.
<Snip>
Not much difference.  Consistency-wise, the Hottop is more consistent 
-- if you monitor the voltage and control it with a Variac.  The gas 
grill is susceptible to wind.  I've finally figured out that I get a 
considerably more consistent roast (and more stable temp) if I turn 
my grill 90degrees.
Terry
--
Terry Stockdale -- Baton Rouge, LA
My Coffee Pages:http://www.terrystockdale.com/hottopMy RK Drum pages: http://www.terrystockdale.com/rkdrum<Snip>">http://www.terrystockdale.com/coffeeMy Hottop pages:http://www.terrystockdale.com/hottopMy RK Drum pages: http://www.terrystockdale.com/rkdrum<Snip>

16) From: Terry Stockdale
At 10:43 PM 4/23/2006, you wrote:
<Snip>
I used the digital thermometer & thermocouple that SM sells.  I 
snaked the thermocouple through the bean chute into the bean mass -- 
and I ejected at the temperature of my choice.  For most beans for 
drip, that was 458degreesF.  For espresso and for Uganda Bugisu 
(which I used at the same roast for espresso, for drip and for vacuum 
pot), that was 463degrees.
<Snip>
Not much difference.  Consistency-wise, the Hottop is more consistent 
-- if you monitor the voltage and control it with a Variac.  The gas 
grill is susceptible to wind.  I've finally figured out that I get a 
considerably more consistent roast (and more stable temp) if I turn 
my grill 90degrees.
Terry
--
Terry Stockdale -- Baton Rouge, LA
My Coffee Pages:http://www.terrystockdale.com/hottopMy RK Drum pages: http://www.terrystockdale.com/rkdrum<Snip>">http://www.terrystockdale.com/coffeeMy Hottop pages:http://www.terrystockdale.com/hottopMy RK Drum pages: http://www.terrystockdale.com/rkdrum<Snip>

17) From: Barbara C. Greenspon
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Sorry its taken so long for me to get to reply to this, but off on 
vacation, I haven't been on my computer very much.
I have written about this earlier, too.  I learned about this method 
somewhere on line and have been using it for more than a year now.
(I too end the roasts in the HotTop manually.)
After the first roast, while the beans are in their cooling cycle, I 
remove the chute cover and the chaff tray (very slowly and carefully!).  
After the beans are cooled, I set the machine to run again right away, 
BUT........I just set it on the quickest time, 17 minutes, start it, and 
immediately push eject.  This gets it into another cooling cycle, and by 
the time it is done, it is ready to start again.  I always take an air 
(inside the chute) temp reading at that time, and the temp is usually 85 
to 95 degrees F.  Works perfectly.  That makes it about 5 or six minutes 
extra between roasts!
Barbara
Terry Stockdale wrote:
<Snip>

18) From: L. Michael Fraley, MD
Hello!
I, just last week, got a new Hotttop Roaster.  Up until then, I had 
only roasted stovetop (sometimes on a kerosene stove!) and with my 
iRoast2.  I got the digital Hottop model, but part of the deal was that 
I get the new upgraded panel for the programable model shipped to me as 
soon as it is available.  To prepare for that, I was wondering does 
anybody have the programable model Hotttop yet?  And if you do, do you 
have any tips on profiles to program into it?  Also do any of you 
digital Hottop users have any tips for a newbie?  I have already 
roasted some pretty decent espresso, and a few batches of beans for 
drip coffee that turned out nice.  The machine came with some Columbian 
beans (tho they were labeled only "Columbian", so I have no other 
information about them.)  When I roasted them, I was not impressed with 
the results.  I don't know if I did something wrong, if they were just 
not good quality beans, or if it was because the roaster was new and 
needed seasoning.  Either way, I figured at least they did help season 
the drum, and basically considered them "throwaways."  Actually, I used 
them as "sacrificial beans" when I last cleaned my Mazzer Mini (after 
using the cleaner.)
Anyway, I just wanted to share my joy of having another roaster, and 
see if anybody has any tips.  I am learning a lot from you folks, but 
still have loads to learn!
Mike
L. Michael Fraley, MD

19) From: MichaelB
Mike,
Enjoy the hottop. You will get a whole lot of advice here, and much of it
will be contradictory :-). But that's part of the journey. The one thing we
all agree on is we love the hottop and don't regret the purchase. I started
with the analog model, and upgraded to digital. I'm glad they provided, and
continue to provide an easy upgrade path.
We can't comment on the new model because, like you, we're waiting for it to
be released. Impatiently! Did you get a price for the upgrade? Exact or
ballpark? Would be nice to know.
One tip would be to record the profile of the hottop now. Knowing the
temperatures it produces over time now compared to your roasting
results will give you a baseline for how you might want to change it. During
your roasting sessions, set a minute timer, push the temp button every
minute, and record the temperature over the course of a roast. Also write
down the times and temperatures of start of 1st, start of 2nd, and any other
milestones worth noting. E.g., pre-1st smoke, time that 1st ends, whatever
you notice that helps you gauge the roast. These data points will be helpful
in building profiles on the programmable machine.
BTW, the beans that came with the hottop are not from Sweet Maria's. IMO you
found an appropriate use for them.
On 1/11/07, L. Michael Fraley, MD  wrote:
<Snip>
--
MichaelB

20) From: Leo Zick
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
hottop quoted me at 1100 for a new machine, or 600 for the upgraded control
panel.  
From: MichaelB [mailto:espressoperson] 
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 1:32 PM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +New Hottop Roaster
Mike,
 
Enjoy the hottop. You will get a whole lot of advice here, and much of it
will be contradictory :-). But that's part of the journey. The one thing we
all agree on is we love the hottop and don't regret the purchase. I started
with the analog model, and upgraded to digital. I'm glad they provided, and
continue to provide an easy upgrade path. 
 
We can't comment on the new model because, like you, we're waiting for it to
be released. Impatiently! Did you get a price for the upgrade? Exact or
ballpark? Would be nice to know.
 
One tip would be to record the profile of the hottop now. Knowing the
temperatures it produces over time now compared to your roasting results
will give you a baseline for how you might want to change it. During your
roasting sessions, set a minute timer, push the temp button every minute,
and record the temperature over the course of a roast. Also write down the
times and temperatures of start of 1st, start of 2nd, and any other
milestones worth noting. E.g., pre-1st smoke, time that 1st ends, whatever
you notice that helps you gauge the roast. These data points will be helpful
in building profiles on the programmable machine.
 
BTW, the beans that came with the hottop are not from Sweet Maria's. IMO you
found an appropriate use for them. 
On 1/11/07, L. Michael Fraley, MD  wrote: 
Hello!
I, just last week, got a new Hotttop Roaster.  Up until then, I had
only roasted stovetop (sometimes on a kerosene stove!) and with my 
iRoast2.  I got the digital Hottop model, but part of the deal was that
I get the new upgraded panel for the programable model shipped to me as
soon as it is available.  To prepare for that, I was wondering does 
anybody have the programable model Hotttop yet?  And if you do, do you
have any tips on profiles to program into it?  Also do any of you
digital Hottop users have any tips for a newbie?  I have already
roasted some pretty decent espresso, and a few batches of beans for 
drip coffee that turned out nice.  The machine came with some Columbian
beans (tho they were labeled only "Columbian", so I have no other
information about them.)  When I roasted them, I was not impressed with 
the results.  I don't know if I did something wrong, if they were just
not good quality beans, or if it was because the roaster was new and
needed seasoning.  Either way, I figured at least they did help season 
the drum, and basically considered them "throwaways."  Actually, I used
them as "sacrificial beans" when I last cleaned my Mazzer Mini (after
using the cleaner.)
Anyway, I just wanted to share my joy of having another roaster, and 
see if anybody has any tips.  I am learning a lot from you folks, but
still have loads to learn!
Mike
L. Michael Fraley, MD--
MichaelB 

21) From: MichaelB
OUCH!!!
The analog to digital upgrade was $100. I imagined the programmable would be
about the same and was planning to upgrade immediately. I won't rule out an
upgrade but I may just wait to see some reviews before I jump at that price.
Hmmm. Just a thought. Is Tom a beta tester? Does he have any information
about the machine that he can reveal without breaching confidentiality
agreements? Tom? Anything you can tell us?
On 1/11/07, Leo Zick  wrote:
<Snip>
--
MichaelB

22) From: DJ Garcia
Not cheap ... but I'll probably get a second HT - mine's one of the early
ones and it's showing its age although I do have the digital panel. BTW I
believe it's not just the front panel that gets replaced but the main board
too.
DJ
Saving up for his Uber HT

23) From: L. Michael Fraley, MD
Thanks for the tips.  I am having a good time figuring things out with 
it.  As 2 the cost for me, Hottop offered me this deal:  I would pay 
$400 up front.  When the new panel becomes available, they will ship it 
to me, and I pay the remainder.  (All shipping is free.)  They 
estimated the total cost for a new programable model to be between $900 
and $1000.  I would be given 20% off of that.  So for examplle, if the 
cost of the programable model is $1000, I pay $800 total.  It seemed 
like a good deal to me, as I get to use the digital while I wait for 
the upgrade.
Mike
L. Michael Fraley, MD

24) From: raymanowen
"...not just the front panel that gets replaced but the main board too."
There is absolutely no big deal about a main board that changes the basic
functionality of the roaster
Is the front panel a color LCD? If so, it may be like replacing the picture
tube every time you want to watch a different TV channel.
No big changes are forthcoming in the process of generating heat by
converting one form of energy to another. The green coffee roasts because it
gets hot. Whatever makes it hot will cause it to roast. Get the surface of a
bean hot by whatever means, and the bean does the rest.
You can be sure there is a lot of marketing palaver involved in selling new
machines with microscopic changes to an original design. The original design
prototype probably included all of the bells and whistles the roaster would
ever have. Then the manufacturer strips it down to the point where it will
still roast coffee.
As they restore deleted features like turn signals and brake lights, they
call it a revolutionary upgrade and charge like Hell. There's a big sucking
sound as the Marks fall for it. The Hottop is turning out to be exactly like
the IRoast / IRoast II debacle.
The new price will be $1500.00. With a 20% discount, you'll pay Only
$1200.00. That makes a huge sucking sound. Almost like paying in advance for
something that "hasn't been released yet."
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
What's the sound a Hoover makes?

25) From: Maryann & Dave Schellenberg
Wow - you've really got a burn going there, Ray.
Perhaps you'd feel happier paying the price Jeffrey Pawlan wants for his 
mod to the HotTop?
It costs several times as much as the original, and you get to supply 
your own laptop to run it.
Dave S.
raymanowen wrote:
<Snip>

26) From: B. Scott Harroff
Just add a PID and solid state relay.  You get 7 ramp and soak points.  More
than enough for coffee which seems to like around 3 points.

27) From: MichaelB
Scott,
Alas, some of us can't "just" add a PID and a SSR. I'd love to do it, but if
it has more than two wires coming out of it I'm lost. And if I tried to do
it and screwed up I'd be SOL on a $600 item. So instead I'll have to pay the
company big bucks to do it for me. But based on my experience this is a
company and US distributor that has come through in the past and will
continue to deliver. Small price for a pursuit that provides so much
satisfaction in return.
On 1/12/07, B. Scott Harroff  wrote:
<Snip>
--
MichaelB

28) From: Jeffrey Pawlan
You wrote:
"Perhaps you'd feel happier paying the price Jeffrey Pawlan wants for his
mod to the HotTop?
It costs several times as much as the original, and you get to supply
your own laptop to run it.
Dave S."
If you send over a business analyst I would show him the actual invoices for my
costs and the amount of labor involved in what I produced. He would
report to you in no uncertain terms, THAT I WAS GIVING AWAY MY TIME ALMOST FOR
FREE AND NOT EVEN MAKING MINIMUM WAGE AND ONLY COVERING MY COSTS!
You have no clue what you are talking about regarding the control of roasters
nor of manufacturing costs. I had written that I originally tried to solve the
modest cost roaster problem with a top-end PID controller and it does not work
with a drum roaster, especially with an electric heating element. The standard
PID equations are not suited to this problem. That is exactly why I spent well
over a year developing my own equations and writing the software.
The PID solution does work with an all-air roaster but I do not personally like
the flavor of air roasted coffee. It is fine with me if you do.
So if you intend to slam or depricate me in public you better get your facts
straight.
P.S. Ray:  I have not used the new hottop but I do know how it works and what it
can and can't do. It does require a completely different main board in order to
run and power the new control panel. That is all I can tell you.
Jeffrey Pawlan

29) From: B. Scott Harroff
For what its worth, a properly tuned PID works fine with a Hot Top.  Bottom
line with the hot top is that the factory heating element can only add so
much heat (go from temp X to temp Y) in a given amount of time, and it's not
particularly responsive from a stable position.
I don't care if it's a PID saying "goto 100% heat" or a computer saying
"goto 100% heat" or someone flipping a switch to "100% heat" - the bottom
line is the roaster is going to react the same way if the mass of beans
exceeds the elements ability to add heat - and that's the hottops position.
On a slow (15-20 degree ramp) and under critical mass of beans the PID and
"whatever else" are just as capable of pulsing and controlling the bean ramp
temp profile.
Been there - done that - got the PID, measurements, and t-shirt to prove it.

30) From: Maryann & Dave Schellenberg
Uh, Jeffrey, there's no need to shout.
There was no intention to slam or deprecate you on my part.
Ray was complaining about the cost of the modifications sold by HotTop,
and I gave him something to compare with those costs.
Your solution costs more than HotTop's solution.
As far as I know, those are the only solutions available "off the shelf".
I have no doubt that you need to price your solution fairly high if you
want to pay for your time.
Most of us here are operating in "hobby mode", not expecting to get paid
for our time.
Dave S.
Jeffrey Pawlan wrote:
<Snip>

31) From: DJ Garcia
Speaking of Jeffrey's Ultra Hottop, just because I can't afford a =
Ferrari
doesn't mean they shouldn't make them ... I mean we're comparing here =
apples
and some exotic fruit ...

32) From: DJ Garcia
Speaking of Jeffrey's Ultra Hottop, just because I can't afford a =
Ferrari
doesn't mean they shouldn't make them ... I mean we're comparing here =
apples
and some exotic fruit ...

33) From: raymanowen
Jeffrey Pawlan has invested in the complete design and testing of a total
new control system for the HT roaster. The degree of control and automation
possible with his interface and mods are unavailable for the HT from any
other source.
If you want to have a dance, you'll have to pay the band. Don't tell the
band after the dance that they weren't all that good and you could have
played requests on your Trombone. You just let them play because they wanted
to.
Uh, uh, uhh- RayO, aka Opa!

34) From: B. Scott Harroff
Looks to me like maybe I ought to market my HotTop PID conversion for those
that are 'in the middle'.  Hmmmm.  
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of
raymanowen
Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 1:17 AM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +New Hottop Roaster
Jeffrey Pawlan has invested in the complete design and testing of a total
new control system for the HT roaster. The degree of control and automation
possible with his interface and mods are unavailable for the HT from any
other source. 
If you want to have a dance, you'll have to pay the band. Don't tell the
band after the dance that they weren't all that good and you could have
played requests on your Trombone. You just let them play because they wanted
to. 
Uh, uh, uhh- RayO, aka Opa!

35) From: Maryann & Dave Schellenberg
Scott: You might be able to work up some real interest if you published 
some details about the profiles your modified Hottop can produce, and 
the cost of these mods.
Ray: Is it just me, or are you purposely sending mixed messages? For 
instance, how do you put together:
"If you want to have a dance, you'll have to pay the band. Don't tell 
the band after the dance that they weren't all that good and you could 
have played requests on your Trombone. You just let them play because 
they wanted to. "
with
"As they restore deleted features like turn signals and brake lights, 
they call it a revolutionary upgrade and charge like Hell. There's a big 
sucking sound as the Marks fall for it"
Dave S.
B. Scott Harroff wrote:
<Snip>

36) From: Larry Johnson
Hello; Newbie Newbenstein here. I haven't been here a month yet, and I can
already tell the difference between the two ypes of forums that I subscribe
to. The one that brews alcohol (Beer homebrewers) and the one that brews
caffeine (Coffee homeroasters). (Yes, the Lilboybrew nickname is from the
beer brewing days; more than ten years before I got into homeroasting.)
Anywho, maybe SM should push the decaf a little harder.
Larry J (Lilboybrew) ....why can't we all just get along....
"The truth doesn't change based on our inability to stomach it."  -
Flannery O'Connor
On 1/13/07, Maryann & Dave Schellenberg  wrote:
<Snip>

37) From: MichaelB
Just perusing the hottop site again. Not sure if it was there before,
but now they have the full procedure for swapping in the new programmable
partshttp://www.hottopusa.com/8828Pupgrade.htmlwith 41 very well
documented and pictured steps. It Includes new panel and board and new
cables. Quite a bit of dissassembly to upgrade. So the discount you got is
definitely a good deal, but you'll have some work to do to earn it :-).
On 1/12/07, L. Michael Fraley, MD  wrote:
<Snip>
--
MichaelB

38) From: raymanowen
Looking at the main board photo in step #24 of the HT programmable upgrade
sheet, I count Six (6) MOV spike protectors. F1 is a solder-in fuse on this
new main board, while it was a glass snap in cartridge fuse in the original
Main Board.
 The point is, the circuit is so poorly designed that if you operate the HT
roaster in an electrical power area subject to line spikes, you'll short on=
e
or more of the MOV's, blow a fuse, and you're Done Roasting until you
replace the shorted MOV and the fuse it blew.
 Even with the early snap-in fuse, look at all the work it takes to just ge=
t
to the fuse. Step #19 to get to the very common 125v 2A fuse.
 If you just replace it and button up the machine and plug it in, you'll
blow the fuse again. Most people would not attempt the solder-in fuse and
the shorted MOV.
 If you just send a non-programmable roaster back for factory service, the
problem will be, *"Bad Main Board," *and then you'll be given the choice of
upgrading the Main Board and Display or just replacing the original Main
Board, if it's still available.
 **
$Hundred$, even with the ubiquitous 20% discount. $100 advance payment?
The new board in the photographs shows some of the worst soldering I've eve=
r
seen on a printed wiring board. I had to find and repair this exact rubbish
at AT&T, Lucent, et al.
 I'm still doing QA inspections on this stuff built elsewhere in the world,
but the workmanship and circuit complexity of even a multifunction remote
control blow this green gob of stuff out the door. Let alone the main board
in a cheap color TV set.
 The HT board is a useless design. They completely reinvented the wheel
several times over. All of the control features of the unit already exist i=
n
other separate controllers currently available and proven.
 Take a look at the center mounting screw #5 on the original Main Board
photo (Step#21). See how close it is to the backside wiring trace? Wonder
why the new boards "don't need it?"
 Of all the Main Boards fabricated, how many function OK on the first try?
Of all the "passes" and repaired boards, how long until *"Bad Main Board" *=
-and
who pays all this development and repair cost? These boards are low
production. Go get a mirror.
<*/Sucking Sound*>
 Cheers –RayO, aka Opa!
 Ever hear a volcano Inhale?

39) From: MichaelB
RayO,
I'm a big fan of your posts. Keep 'em coming. I'm really amazed by your
eyesight and what you can see in those pictures.
Happily, my Hottop reliability has been exemplary. Zero problems in two
years of rough use. And I expect the same performance and reliability with
the programmable model. If this is in spite of poor internal quality and
poor design, so be it. I don't imagine that typical hardware quality (which
I don't know and can't judge) should be any different than software quality
(which I do know and can judge - as harshly as you do hardware). I'm now
waiting eagerly for the as yet unannounced RayOtop Roaster. But until then,
I will continue to use the Hottop confidently. Of course, now I will hope
that you don't get the chance to say "I told you so" :-).
BTW, just checking the site again, there is now a pdf version availablehttp://www.hottopusa.com/Pupgrade_K2_screen.pdf.The html link I sent last
night still works though it is no longer available on the home page. And no
sign of the owner's manual yet, even though it is referenced in the text.
They are obviously getting ready for release.
On 1/15/07, raymanowen  wrote:
<Snip>
e
<Snip>
is
<Snip>
al
<Snip>
rt
<Snip>
e
<Snip>
in
<Snip>
ain
<Snip>
 in
<Snip>
?
<Snip>
--
MichaelB

40) From: Leo Zick
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
rough use?
 
damn you beans! roast, you beans you!  ill show you, get in there!  
From: MichaelB [mailto:espressoperson] 
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 9:12 AM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +New Hottop Roaster
RayO, 
I'm a big fan of your posts. Keep 'em coming. I'm really amazed by your
eyesight and what you can see in those pictures.
Happily, my Hottop reliability has been exemplary. Zero problems in two
years of rough use. And I expect the same performance and reliability with
the programmable model. If this is in spite of poor internal quality and
poor design, so be it. I don't imagine that typical hardware quality (which
I don't know and can't judge) should be any different than software quality
(which I do know and can judge - as harshly as you do hardware). I'm now
waiting eagerly for the as yet unannounced RayOtop Roaster. But until then,
I will continue to use the Hottop confidently. Of course, now I will hope
that you don't get the chance to say "I told you so" :-). 
BTW, just checking the site again, there is now a pdf version availablehttp://www.hottopusa.com/Pupgrade_K2_screen.pdf.The html link I sent last
night still works though it is no longer available on the home page. And no
sign of the owner's manual yet, even though it is referenced in the text.
They are obviously getting ready for release. 
On 1/15/07, raymanowen  wrote: 
Looking at the main board photo in step #24 of the HT programmable upgrade
sheet, I count Six (6) MOV spike protectors. F1 is a solder-in fuse on this
new main board, while it was a glass snap in cartridge fuse in the original
Main Board. 
 The point is, the circuit is so poorly designed that if you operate the HT
roaster in an electrical power area subject to line spikes, you'll short one
or more of the MOV's, blow a fuse, and you're Done Roasting until you
replace the shorted MOV and the fuse it blew. 
 Even with the early snap-in fuse, look at all the work it takes to just get
to the fuse. Step #19 to get to the very common 125v 2A fuse.
 If you just replace it and button up the machine and plug it in, you'll
blow the fuse again. Most people would not attempt the solder-in fuse and
the shorted MOV.
 If you just send a non-programmable roaster back for factory service, the
problem will be, "Bad Main Board," and then you'll be given the choice of
upgrading the Main Board and Display or just replacing the original Main
Board, if it's still available. 
 
$Hundred$, even with the ubiquitous 20% discount. $100 advance payment?
The new board in the photographs shows some of the worst soldering I've ever
seen on a printed wiring board. I had to find and repair this exact rubbish
at AT&T, Lucent, et al.
 I'm still doing QA inspections on this stuff built elsewhere in the world,
but the workmanship and circuit complexity of even a multifunction remote
control blow this green gob of stuff out the door. Let alone the main board
in a cheap color TV set. 
 The HT board is a useless design. They completely reinvented the wheel
several times over. All of the control features of the unit already exist in
other separate controllers currently available and proven. 
 Take a look at the center mounting screw #5 on the original Main Board
photo (Step#21). See how close it is to the backside wiring trace? Wonder
why the new boards "don't need it?" 
 Of all the Main Boards fabricated, how many function OK on the first try?
Of all the "passes" and repaired boards, how long until "Bad Main Board"
-and who pays all this development and repair cost? These boards are low
production. Go get a mirror. 
 Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
 Ever hear a volcano Inhale?
--
MichaelB 

41) From: MichaelB
Leo,
Haha. Rough on the machine, gentle on the beans. Roasting 4 or more batches
in a row. Cooling the machine with an external fan between batches to cut
down the normal cooling time to a minute or two. (Aim the fan at the open
front of the Hottop during the buit-in bean cooling cycle (about 5 min).
Then ready to start next roast in a minute or two after that.)
On 1/15/07, Leo Zick  wrote:
<Snip>
h
<Snip>
ch
<Snip>
ty
<Snip>
n,
<Snip>
t
<Snip>
no
<Snip>
fuse
<Snip>
the
<Snip>
e
<Snip>
hort
<Snip>
ou
<Snip>
t
<Snip>
l
<Snip>
nd
<Snip>
t
<Snip>
on
<Snip>
 main
<Snip>
st in
<Snip>
er
<Snip>
s
<Snip>
--
MichaelB

42) From: Leo Zick
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
ah, the old expansion contraction dynamics..
 
havent used one, but ive only heard the same from others, solid machine. :)  
From: MichaelB [mailto:espressoperson] 
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 9:32 AM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +New Hottop Roaster
Leo,
 
Haha. Rough on the machine, gentle on the beans. Roasting 4 or more batches
in a row. Cooling the machine with an external fan between batches to cut
down the normal cooling time to a minute or two. (Aim the fan at the open
front of the Hottop during the buit-in bean cooling cycle (about 5 min).
Then ready to start next roast in a minute or two after that.) 
On 1/15/07, Leo Zick  wrote: 
rough use?
 
damn you beans! roast, you beans you!  ill show you, get in there!  
From: MichaelB [mailto:espressoperson] 
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 9:12 AM
To: homeroast
 
Subject: Re: +New Hottop Roaster
RayO, 
I'm a big fan of your posts. Keep 'em coming. I'm really amazed by your
eyesight and what you can see in those pictures.
Happily, my Hottop reliability has been exemplary. Zero problems in two
years of rough use. And I expect the same performance and reliability with
the programmable model. If this is in spite of poor internal quality and
poor design, so be it. I don't imagine that typical hardware quality (which
I don't know and can't judge) should be any different than software quality
(which I do know and can judge - as harshly as you do hardware). I'm now
waiting eagerly for the as yet unannounced RayOtop Roaster. But until then,
I will continue to use the Hottop confidently. Of course, now I will hope
that you don't get the chance to say "I told you so" :-). 
BTW, just checking the site again, there is now a pdf version availablehttp://www.hottopusa.com/Pupgrade_K2_screen.pdf . The html link I sent
last night still works though it is no longer available on the home page.
And no sign of the owner's manual yet, even though it is referenced in the
text. They are obviously getting ready for release. 
On 1/15/07, raymanowen < raymanowen
 > wrote: 
Looking at the main board photo in step #24 of the HT programmable upgrade
sheet, I count Six (6) MOV spike protectors. F1 is a solder-in fuse on this
new main board, while it was a glass snap in cartridge fuse in the original
Main Board. 
 The point is, the circuit is so poorly designed that if you operate the HT
roaster in an electrical power area subject to line spikes, you'll short one
or more of the MOV's, blow a fuse, and you're Done Roasting until you
replace the shorted MOV and the fuse it blew. 
 Even with the early snap-in fuse, look at all the work it takes to just get
to the fuse. Step #19 to get to the very common 125v 2A fuse.
 If you just replace it and button up the machine and plug it in, you'll
blow the fuse again. Most people would not attempt the solder-in fuse and
the shorted MOV.
 If you just send a non-programmable roaster back for factory service, the
problem will be, "Bad Main Board," and then you'll be given the choice of
upgrading the Main Board and Display or just replacing the original Main
Board, if it's still available. 
 
$Hundred$, even with the ubiquitous 20% discount. $100 advance payment?
The new board in the photographs shows some of the worst soldering I've ever
seen on a printed wiring board. I had to find and repair this exact rubbish
at AT&T, Lucent, et al.
 I'm still doing QA inspections on this stuff built elsewhere in the world,
but the workmanship and circuit complexity of even a multifunction remote
control blow this green gob of stuff out the door. Let alone the main board
in a cheap color TV set. 
 The HT board is a useless design. They completely reinvented the wheel
several times over. All of the control features of the unit already exist in
other separate controllers currently available and proven. 
 Take a look at the center mounting screw #5 on the original Main Board
photo (Step#21). See how close it is to the backside wiring trace? Wonder
why the new boards "don't need it?" 
 Of all the Main Boards fabricated, how many function OK on the first try?
Of all the "passes" and repaired boards, how long until "Bad Main Board"
-and who pays all this development and repair cost? These boards are low
production. Go get a mirror. 
 Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
 Ever hear a volcano Inhale?
--
MichaelB 
--
MichaelB 

43) From: DJ Garcia
Considering they're not available yet, chances are this might be a
pre-production board. Let's wait to get a real one then let the games begin
... I seriously doubt these will be hand-soldered in a production run, will
they?
DJ
Ever the Optimist

44) From: L. Michael Fraley, MD
I will let you know what the price is when I pay it.  I am happy with 
my purchase.
"There is absolutely no big deal about a main board that changes the 
basic
functionality of the roaster
Is the front panel a color LCD? If so, it may be like replacing the 
picture
tube every time you want to watch a different TV channel.
No big changes are forthcoming in the process of generating heat by
converting one form of energy to another. The green coffee roasts 
because it
gets hot. Whatever makes it hot will cause it to roast. Get the surface 
of a
bean hot by whatever means, and the bean does the rest.
You can be sure there is a lot of marketing palaver involved in selling 
new
machines with microscopic changes to an original design. The original 
design
prototype probably included all of the bells and whistles the roaster 
would
ever have. Then the manufacturer strips it down to the point where it 
will
still roast coffee.
As they restore deleted features like turn signals and brake lights, 
they
call it a revolutionary upgrade and charge like Hell. There's a big 
sucking
sound as the Marks fall for it. The Hottop is turning out to be exactly 
like
the IRoast / IRoast II debacle.
The new price will be $1500.00. With a 20% discount, you'll pay Only
$1200.00. That makes a huge sucking sound. Almost like paying in 
advance for
something that "hasn't been released yet." "
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
What's the sound a Hoover makes?


HomeRoast Digest