HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Panama auction (53 msgs / 1410 lines)
1) From: Robert Adams
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Wow! Tom won a share of the top three coffees auctioned off yesterday. =
Top coffee $50.25/#. 
Better start saving up-I wonder if he'll sell in 150g increments?

2) From: Ed Needham
http://auction.stoneworks.com/includes/pa2006/final_results.html

3) From: Les
Wow!  I wonder what Tom will sell it for.  Are we looking at a $75.00
- $80.00 a pound coffee?
If I buy some of this, I will be home alone with the phone turned off
and do a full maintenance on the RK before roasting.  I hope Tom
offers it to the list before he puts in on his website.  I am sure we
are looking at a one pound limit on this one.
Les
On 6/1/06, Ed Needham  wrote:
<Snip>

4) From: Thbull
Wow! time to dip into the retirement fund! How will I explain this 'investment'?
Time build an addition to the dog house...move over Rover, here I come!
-Thbull ' not focusing on work right now!'
On 6/1/06, Ed Needham  wrote:
<Snip>

5) From: Woody DeCasere
Sorry, but there is no way i will pay $20 for a pound of unroasted coffee
let alone this coffee which was bought at $50 a pound, that is outrageous.
What is the justification for this,  $33,235.35 for 5 bags of coffee?? I
uderstand fair trade and trying to help the farmers be self sustainable, but
really how much did this coffee cost to produce?
Sad thing is i really like the panama coffee's but it looks like i'll be
priced out this year.
-- 
"Good night, and Good Coffee"

6) From: Rich Adams
You can always get the cheaper Kona, I here it makes a good substitute for 
Panama.
:-)
Rich Adams

7) From: Vince Doss
On 6/1/06, Woody DeCasere  wrote:
<Snip>
Woody,
You do make a valid point and I certainly respect your right not purchase
coffee at this price. (Personally I cant bring myself to purchase Kona or
JMB) however, considering this auction price is divided amongst the 5
members of the Small Axe Coffee Alliance (Sweet Maria's Coffee Inc,
Stumptown Coffee Roasters, Intelligentsia Coffee Roasters, Groundwork Coffee
Company and Kaffa). Anyone who has ever bought advertising like a yellow
pages ad or printed out line cards to stuff in a mailer and pay postage on
top of that can tell you that the mileage these members will get from both
goodwill and advertising by being the winning bidder of a world record
breaking auction is worth waaaay more than their paltry 6,647.07 share of
the price. This sends a message on so many different levels and brings good
attention to Specialty Coffee...and roasting in general. It is just exciting
to see IMHO.
Respectfully,
Vince
-- 
At some point between French and fire, it really doesn't matter much what
the "origin character" of the coffee was ...
Tom Owens - Sweet Maria's

8) From: Woody DeCasere
Cheaper KONA LOL, as to it being a good sign, i do not know, does this mean
the coffee market in general will go up, will there be a Vietnam Grade1
Robusta cup of excellence where even that crap will go for $1 a pound which
would kill the market. I am mixed in feelings about the whole thing.
Maybe Tom can shed light on it one way or another.
On 6/1/06, Vince Doss  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
"Good night, and Good Coffee"

9) From: Wesley Simon
Something to consider...
Who says that Tom bought any of it?  We know the Small Axe Coffee Alliance
bought it, but
who is to say that wasn't bought by only one of the members?  I won't spend
that kind of money on a pound of coffee.  It's like my car, I purchased an
Acura TL for a little over $30K.  Can BMW or Mercedes really do that much
more to a car to make it worth $70K, $80K or more?  I believe it's called
the law of diminishing returns in economics.  I bought a pound of Kona, it
was good.  Was it worth 3x the price of other excellent coffees?  In my
opinion, no.
Wes
On 6/1/06, Vince Doss  wrote:
<Snip>

10) From: Espressoperson
Not only did Tom buy it, but with top of the line company too!
http://sweetmarias.com/#whats_new)">http://sweetmarias.com/#whats_new_http://sweetmarias.com/#whats_new)
 
IMO the car analogy is off. It might be more like a top of the line  
restaurant where I can spend 10X more than at home or at a neighborhood  dive. Not 
every meal; not every day; but a special treat for a special occasion.  And no 
hype here like there _might_ be with Konas and JMBs; this is the real  deal!
 
In a message dated 6/1/2006 3:37:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
gm.wesley writes:
Something to consider...
Who says that Tom bought any of  it?  We know the Small Axe Coffee Alliance 
bought it, but 
who is to  say that wasn't bought by only one of the members?  I won't spend 
that  kind of money on a pound of coffee.  It's like my car, I purchased an  
Acura TL for a little over $30K.  Can BMW or Mercedes really do that much  more 
to a car to make it worth $70K, $80K or more?  I believe it's called  the law 
of diminishing returns in economics.  I bought a pound of Kona,  it was good. 
 Was it worth 3x the price of other excellent coffees?   In my opinion, no. 
Wes

11) From: Wesley Simon
I stand corrected: Tom did buy one bag...I hope those who buy it really
enjoy it.
On 6/1/06, Espressoperson  wrote:
<Snip>

12) From: Les
I like this discussion.  Vince has a good point.  Woody don't fret,
there will be coffee at a good price for a long time.  Wes you are
right we may never see this coffee from Tom.  With that all said, I
think it is great.  We should be paying for excellent coffee.  The
reality is the fine Oaxaca coffee from Mexico results in the farmer
getting less than a nickel a pound many times.  If the farmer doesn't
get a better return, we won't have any good stuff at any price.
Now that I have my order in for a my years supply of  Panama Carmen
Estate 1800+ Meters, it is time to review what to look for in Tom's
reviews and write-ups.  Tom said concerning the Panama auction from
somewhere in Central America:
"I can say for sure that the final table in Panama, the top 8 coffees,
were all INCREDIBLE! And take note that the Finca Carmen 1800 Meter
lot, the EXACT same lot we are selling (Carlos literally pulled 5 bags
from the sweet marias lot and
entered it in the competition), won the 3rd position. The auction lot
will cost A LOT more than what we are selling now, and I bet we are
getting low as I write this."
SO!!!!! What Tom is selling for  $5.70 a pound went for $14.20 a pound
at the auction!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  Are you looking for a bargain on a CoE?  Best be hitting the Sweet
Maria offering sheet quick.  And by the way, I had a 4 day rested pot
of this stuff this morning and it is one of the most incredible cups
of coffee I have had in a long time, smooth, buttery, complex, and
sweet aftertaste.  Becky wanted to know if I had added sugar to the
coffee today.  As far as I am concerned this is the bargain of the
year.
Les
On 6/1/06, Wesley Simon  wrote:
<Snip>

13) From: Wesley Simon
I ordered 5 lbs of the Carmen Estate 1800+ when I had to grab some of the
Gethumbwini as well as 5 lbs of the Oaxaca...
Have you been snooping in on my orders Les?
1046-10        Kenya Auction Lot -Gethumbwini Peaberry -10 lbs       1
 $46.48        $46.48
1018-5         Panama Carmen Estate 1800+ Meters -5 lbs       1
 $24.80        $24.80
1012o-5        Mexico Organic Oaxaca -Finca El Olivo -5 lbs       1
 $21.75        $21.75
On 6/1/06, Les  wrote:
<Snip>

14) From: Vicki Smith
This coffee isn't anything I would buy, no more than I would buy a $1000 
bottle of wine. That being said, what pleases me is that the CoE and 
coffee auctions are pretty much level playing fields for coffee growers. 
A small farmer, or a community of coffee growers, can participate in 
these, and if they have done everything right, and mother nature has 
cooperated, they can be hugely rewarded for their efforts.
It's like the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, and my guess is 
that this sort of thing keeps people in the business of growing 
speciality coffee and striving for perfection.
That benefits all of us.
Vicki
<Snip>

15) From: Don Cummings
I am *settling* ( :) ) for another 5 lbs of the 1800 meters as well.
Getting 5 lbs of the number 3 for less than half of the price of a single
pound of the number 1 is more my style. Maybe someday my tastes will be
refined enough to appreciate and enjoy a particular coffee 12 times as much
as I enjoy the ones that I am used to now but that day is not here yet
On 6/1/06, Wesley Simon  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Don

16) From: J.W.Bullfrog
Woody DeCasere wrote:
<Snip>
I think that this expresses the point about the coffee
"Price Peterson of Hacienda la Esmeralda said, “It is events like this, 
and the great response of the buyers, that is like a cheering section 
for us farmers. It tells us that someone out there really appreciates 
the effort we put into preparing our coffee and, even if the commodity 
prices do not reflect it, someone up north cares. Everyone likes to feel 
that.”"
<Snip>
Nope, the average lot price was 4.75 per lb; and they are really good 
coffee's.
<Snip>
-- 
There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers 
exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will 
instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more 
bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another theory which states that this has already happened.

17) From: Mike Chester
Curse you Les!! :)  I was finally making a dent in my stash and you 
logically explain why I should break my plan.  You really should get a 
commission from Tom.  You are his best salesman.
Mike Chester

18) From: Justin Marquez
On 6/1/06, Woody DeCasere  wrote:
<Snip>
Woody -
My personal upper price limit is about $10 a pound, so I agree that $50 a
pound seems a bit crazy for green coffee.
On the other hand, what we are seeing is what the free market is all about.
What does it matter what it cost to produce?  The "value" of it is what the
market is willing to pay for it! You and I may not be part of the market for
this coffee, but I bet Tom will be able to sell all of his 60 kilo bag at
some reasonable markup.
Personally, I can sure "settle" for the Carmen 1800+ Meter stuff!
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (Snyder, TX)

19) From: DJ Garcia
Oh, dang it - I thought I was through buying for the year ...

20) From: DJ Garcia
Oh, dang it - I thought I was through buying for the year ...

21) From: Les
Mike,
Don't blame me!  Blame Tom.  I go out to the stash and I go should I
roast this one? or this one? or this one or this one? or this one
?????????  There are too many good ones!
Les
On 6/1/06, Mike Chester  wrote:
<Snip>

22) From: B. Scott Harroff
Though quick in-the-head-math a pound of coffee could make about 250 ounces
of coffee.  250 ounces is about 7500 ml.  A bottle of wine is 750 ml so
volume wise that's like 10 bottles of wine.
So $50 (coffee pound price) divided by 10 bottles = like paying 5 dollars
for bottle of wine.
Would you pay $5 for a bottle of wine?  OK...coffee price justified.  What?
You'd pay $10 a bottle?  20?
For you beer drinkers, I think it's roughly twice the price as Budweiser.
In the grand scheme of things.....

23) From: B. Scott Harroff
Oh, and by the way, do the cost per pound for what one is really paying for
those economical 16 oz Grande sizes....um about $50 a pound....

24) From: Woody DeCasere
Isnt that one of the reasons we homeroast, so we dont have to pay grande
prices?
I do understand some will buy this and extol it's virtues as being like
butter or the finest Wine. For me it's not fiscally responsible.
I would love to see a blind taste test on this to see if anyone could pick
out the $50 coffee.
Oh, and by the way, do the cost per pound for what one is really paying for
<Snip>
-- 
"Good night, and Good Coffee"

25) From: raymanowen
Fair Trade, huh? "Help" the farmers? What a magnanimous gesture.
Is  33 Grand- even Ten Times Over- really going to make a significant
difference in the lot of "The Farmer?"
There's lots and lots of them, and they have families. Would you trade
places with any one of them in their situation, even with a million dollars
guaranteed for a once-in-a-season lot?
I doubt it. You'd never see the million bucks, with dozens of workers
desperately needing part of it. (They're the ones that groom the cherries
and make the million dollar lot.)
How about the machinery, animals and physical farm that require continuous
maintenance? Maybe I'm priced out of this one this time, but if this will
support the best of the best coffee
Stop buying gasoline when it hits $5/gallon, self serve. A Land Barge with a
20 gallon tank takes you out of the market for Two Pounds of a Hell of a lot
more pleasurable commodity.
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
How nice we can be so generous. Million Bucks? Phht!
On 6/1/06, Woody DeCasere  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
"When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the Mighty
Wichita WurliTzer- 1976

26) From: raymanowen
I think Tom's purchase was based on the likes of "a blind taste test on
this," and the results are in.
Did Tom really expectorate? -ro
On 6/1/06, raymanowen  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
"When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the
Wichita WurliTzer

27) From: Pecan Jim Gundlach
--Apple-Mail-4--894090922
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Some of us are interested in trying rare and exceptional coffees.  It  
is all part of the experience of letting coffee be a significant part  
of your life.  Fifty dollars plus some mark-up for Tom,  for a pound  
of a coffee that I will remember for the rest of my life is not that  
expensive in the overall scheme of things.  I once broke the law to  
try a rather ordinary coffee from a country that I had not been able  
to obtain after trying for years.  The taste of that coffee is  
remembered and I see it as an essential part of my life with coffee.   
I have drank three different kopi luwak's and while I don't think  
they are really worth the money as a regular coffee, I do consider it  
an essential part of the full coffee experience.
      Oh, yes my land barge has a 40 gallon tank.
        Jim Gundlach
           Roasting over pecan wood fires in La Place, Alabama
On Jun 1, 2006, at 7:54 PM, raymanowen wrote:
<Snip>
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Some of us are interested in =
trying rare and exceptional coffees.  It is all part of the experience =
of letting coffee be a significant part of your life.  Fifty dollars =
plus some mark-up for Tom,  for a pound of a coffee that I will =
remember for the rest of my life is not that expensive in the overall =
scheme of things.  I once broke the law to try a rather ordinary =
coffee from a country that I had not been able to obtain after trying =
for years.  The taste of that coffee is remembered and I see it as an =
essential part of my life with coffee.  I have drank three different =
kopi luwak's and while I don't think they are really worth the money as =
a regular coffee, I do consider it an essential part of the full coffee =
experience.       Oh, yes my land barge has a 40 gallon =
tank.       Jim Gundlach        =
  Roasting over pecan wood fires in La Place, =
Alabama
On Jun 1, 2006, at 7:54 PM, raymanowen =
wrote:
I think Tom's purchase was based on the likes of "a blind = taste test on this," and the results are in. Did Tom really expectorate? = -ro On 6/1/06, raymanowen <raymanowen> = wrote: Fair Trade, huh? "Help" the farmers? What a magnanimous = gesture. Is  33 Grand- even Ten Times Over- really going to = make a significant difference in the lot of "The Farmer?" There's = lots and lots of them, and they have families. Would you trade places = with any one of them in their situation, even with a million dollars = guaranteed for a once-in-a-season lot? I doubt it. You'd never = see the million bucks, with dozens of workers desperately needing part = of it. (They're the ones that groom the cherries and make the million = dollar lot.) How about the machinery, animals and physical farm = that require continuous maintenance? Maybe I'm priced out of this one = this time, but if this will support the best of the best coffee = Stop buying gasoline when it hits $5/gallon, self serve. A Land = Barge with a 20 gallon tank takes you out of the market for Two Pounds = of a Hell of a lot more = pleasurable commodity. Cheers -RayO, aka Opa! How nice = we can be so generous. Million Bucks? = Phht! On 6/1/06, Woody = DeCasere < = decasere> wrote: Sorry, but there is no way i will pay = $20 for a pound of unroasted coffee let alone this coffee which was = bought at $50 a pound, that is outrageous. What is the = justification for this,  $33,235.35 for 5 bags of coffee?? I uderstand = fair trade and trying to help the farmers be self sustainable, but = really how much did this coffee cost to produce?  Sad thing is = i really like the panama coffee's but it looks like i'll be priced out = this year. -- "Good night, and Good = Coffee" =
-- "When the theme hits the = bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the Mighty Wichita WurliTzer- = 1976
-- = "When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at = the Wichita WurliTzer = --Apple-Mail-4--894090922--

28) From: Les
I blind tasted the CoE coffees from El Salvador last year at Sweet
Marias. I just happened to be there at the right time!  I picked the
number one easily.  So yes it can be done and it was done.  The whole
reason for the CoE is to blind pick the best of the best.  I figured
out that Star Bucks is charging about 70 dollars a pound for the
coffee in their drinks.  However, I believe that the point is being
missed looking at things this way.
What we have are farms that bring out their best to be judged.  These
are small lots that have been given special care in the field.  They
have been picked by the best pickers.  They have been sorted and
resorted to bring the highest quality seed to the competition.   I bet
there is some Gesha for sale from  Hacienda la Esmeralda that was a
little lower grade than the five bags of Esmeralda Special 29-60-12
that was entered in the CoE judging.  This coffee will go for a good
price for everyone to enjoy.  I bet Tom will get in on some of it too
if he is able to!
Another bit of history for you all who seem a bit bent out of shape is
the reality that homeroasters are now a respected part of the
Speciality Roasting Community.  I can't really express in words what a
BIG DEAL this is and should be to all of us.  I have been homeroasting
for over 20 years.  20 years ago you couldn't get good beans.  I would
go into  roasters and ask for beans.  I was lucky if they would sell
me their baggy stuff.  Often I had to pay full roasted prices for
greens.  I would get dirty looks and was disrespected by the roasters
who looked down on homeroasters.  NOW we have our own judge at the CoE
cuppings.  We have our own cupper getting samples from the
wholesalers.  We have a guy who is willing to be away from home for
about a third of the year to find us great coffee!  I love to travel
but not that much!   Because of several reasons that I am aware of,
but don't feel the freedom to share with you,  you will notice that
Maria stays at home for almost all of these trips!  Thanks for the
sacrifice Tom and Maria!!!
Before I get off my soup box,  You need to roast these coffees at city
to city plus to really bring out the origin flavor.  If you are going
to Vienna and beyond, stick with a good high grown coffee that doesn't
cost more than $6.00.  And yes Ray, these creme de la creme are going
to make a difference due to the reputation that the farm gets.
Les
On 6/1/06, Woody DeCasere  wrote:
<Snip>

29) From: Les
Well said Pecan Jim!  I only have a 35 gallon tank in the full size
van.  I too have tried the forbidden coffee and count it as a special
part of my coffee experience.  I have had 4 kopi luwak experiences and
count it as money well spent.  I would never stock it or buy a 5
pounder!  That isn't the point.
Les
On 6/1/06, Pecan Jim Gundlach  wrote:
<Snip>

30) From: Michael Dhabolt
<Snip>
to all of us.<
<Snip>
part of your life.<
Well said.
Mike (just plain).

31) From: Justin Marquez
On 6/1/06, raymanowen  wrote:
<Snip>
Maybe not on the coffee he scored as 97!
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (Snyder, TX)

32) From: Barbara C. Greenspon
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Just for thought:  Maybe someone already said this, but I sure would be 
willing to split a pound, when the time comes, with someone.  Anyone 
interested let me know.
Barbara
B. Scott Harroff wrote:
<Snip>

33) From: Barbara C. Greenspon
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Once again, Les, I am thrilled that we can count on you to be logical 
and reasonable and understanding of the various points of view.  R
I love getting a good deal on my coffee, but if that was the only reason 
I was roasting, I would have quit a long time ago.  How very blessed we 
are to be able to do what we do, to learn, to share, to gift, to screw 
up, etc.  But I'm not suggesting that we screw up on the expensive stuff.
Take care,
Barbara
Les wrote:
<Snip>

34) From: Wendy Sarrett
Well, while Les has a good point, I have to admit the #1 is too rich for 
my blood as well.  I think #2 or #3 is a lot better deal and I'll likely 
go for those.  (Kindof like buying computers....if you buy the fastest 
CPU you'll spend a fortune but if you step down to the second or third 
fastest you'll still get a plenty fast computer but pay a lot less!) I 
got the Brazil CoE (#13) which wasn't unreasonable pricewize.  
Unfortunately I haven't tried it yet....I'm still getting used to a new 
roaster and I wanted to feel comfortable with it before I risk those 
beans to it.  However, I got a beautiful roast of a Guatemalian last 
night so I think I'm about ready to do the Brazil.
Wendy
Mike Chester wrote:
<Snip>

35) From: Steve Hay
At first when I heard about the $50/lb. coffee, I thought, "no way!"
thinking to myself, "Why would anyone think that was worth it?" but as I
considered it more, I think it makes a lot of sense. I mean, with wine, I've
payed for a $50 bottle and scotch up to $100 (and they go higher, of
course). The reason I did it was because it was enjoyable and I could taste
a difference after developing a taste for wine and appreciating specific
characteristics that come out strongly only in more expensive bottles. For
me, I look for the spicy characteristic typically found in French Paulliac
or so I've heard some Australlian wine (though I've never found one that
actually tasted like that). Anyway, my point is that for someone with
refined tastes and highly-developed roasting skills, I think it would be
very exciting to try one's hand at something like this. Sortof a rare
opportunity... As for me, I am still such a novice that I am afraid to roast
something that is $10/lb., let alone $50/lb. But maybe one day I will
appreciate some of the finest coffee in the world. Then again, this is a
left-handed gift--it might be nice to continue enjoying the very good cheap
stuff that's widely available. I certainly will enjoy this time while it
lasts and I don't need something $50/lb or that has passed through the cat
intestines to get my kicks on this variant of addictive fluid. --Steve

36) From: B. Scott Harroff
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Again, "ounce for ounce", that $50 per pound coffee is the same as buying a
$5.00 bottle of wine or roughly twice the price (ounce for ounce) as a can
of Budweiser.  Its just a matter of perspective.
Since you are a scotch drinker (and I have a shelf of single malts) there is
no comparison in ounce for ounce prices between our 15-18 year old singles
and $50/lb coffee.  Coffee is the bargain.  
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Steve Hay
Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 8:27 PM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +Panama auction
At first when I heard about the $50/lb. coffee, I thought, "no way!"
thinking to myself, "Why would anyone think that was worth it?" but as I
considered it more, I think it makes a lot of sense. I mean, with wine, I've
payed for a $50 bottle and scotch up to $100 (and they go higher, of
course). The reason I did it was because it was enjoyable and I could taste
a difference after developing a taste for wine and appreciating specific
characteristics that come out strongly only in more expensive bottles. For
me, I look for the spicy characteristic typically found in French Paulliac
or so I've heard some Australlian wine (though I've never found one that
actually tasted like that). Anyway, my point is that for someone with
refined tastes and highly-developed roasting skills, I think it would be
very exciting to try one's hand at something like this. Sortof a rare
opportunity... As for me, I am still such a novice that I am afraid to roast
something that is $10/lb., let alone $50/lb. But maybe one day I will
appreciate some of the finest coffee in the world. Then again, this is a
left-handed gift--it might be nice to continue enjoying the very good cheap
stuff that's widely available. I certainly will enjoy this time while it
lasts and I don't need something $50/lb or that has passed through the cat
intestines to get my kicks on this variant of addictive fluid. --Steve 

37) From: Michael Wascher
I'm not ready to try my hand at roasting this coffee. I'd certainly like to
try a cup or two, roasted & brewed by a master.
On 6/3/06, B. Scott Harroff  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
"Life is just one damned thing after another."
  - Elbert Hubbard

38) From: Steve Hay
On 6/3/06, B. Scott Harroff  wrote:
<Snip>
I tend to agree with you in spirit, Scott; however, one difference between
wine/scotch/beer and coffee is that in order to enjoy beer I do not need a
$150 grinder, $300 espresso machine, $100 roaster, etc. before I am even in
the game.  There is also not much risk in me ruining those things unless I
leave them in a hot car.  Coffee is much more delicate; if I buy it roasted,
its only good for a 2-3 day window and if I roast it myself the greens are
pretty stable but I have to develop some pretty nuanced skills before I can
enjoy the product.
Backing up a but, the main thrust of my post was that at first I was shocked
and put off a bit by the price, but after I considered it some more it made
sense to me.  But, like many other things, I am not sure I would fully
appreciate this $50/lb coffee and since I am enjoying my $6/lb coffee quite
well at the moment, my personal choice will be to stay with it until I've
learned enough to move on to the better stuff.
And while I do welcome the notion of good coffees being rewarded with high
prices, I do hope that it is economically sustainable to obtain some high
quality coffees at $5-10/lb. since it might price a lot of Novice roasters
out of the homeroasting market if everything was Kona prices.  Also, I've
had a hard enough time convincing people to spend $0.20/cup for homeroast
instead of Folgers despite the quality difference.  They'd laugh me out of
the office at $1.00/cup.  (Ironic since they have no trouble paying this at
the Charbucks across the street, ah well such is life.)
Cheers,
-- 
Steven Hay
hay.steve -AT- gmail.com
Barry Paradox: Consider k to be the greatest element of the set of natural
numbers whose description require maximum of 50 words: "(k+1) is a natural
number which requires more than 50 words to describe it."

39) From: Pecan Jim Gundlach
If feedback from the list is as promising as I suspect, you might buy  
a pound to reward yourself with roasting one of the finest coffees in  
the world when you have developed your roasting skills.  The greens  
will keep for a couple of years if well stored.
       Jim Gundlach
On Jun 3, 2006, at 7:27 PM, Steve Hay wrote:
<Snip>

40) From: B. Scott Harroff
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
I'm out on an edge here, but assuming we don't mind spending twice the price
of "bud" for the best coffee there is, and we assume we have the gear and
skills to roast it, it seems like a bargain.
What do we all pay for a set of golf clubs to tackle the course?  A top end
fishing reel (Shimano) and rod (Loomis)? 
Yes, that coffee is pricey, but if you were in any other hobby, and you
wanted to tempt the "top end" what would it cost?   Coffee seems like a
bargain.
I'm going to sip on my Lagavulin and give this a rest.  
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Steve Hay
Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 9:14 PM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +Panama auction
On 6/3/06, B. Scott Harroff  wrote:
Again, "ounce for ounce", that $50 per pound coffee is the same as buying a
$5.00 bottle of wine or roughly twice the price (ounce for ounce) as a can
of Budweiser.  Its just a matter of perspective.
I tend to agree with you in spirit, Scott; however, one difference between
wine/scotch/beer and coffee is that in order to enjoy beer I do not need a
$150 grinder, $300 espresso machine, $100 roaster, etc. before I am even in
the game.  There is also not much risk in me ruining those things unless I
leave them in a hot car.  Coffee is much more delicate; if I buy it roasted,
its only good for a 2-3 day window and if I roast it myself the greens are
pretty stable but I have to develop some pretty nuanced skills before I can
enjoy the product. 
Backing up a but, the main thrust of my post was that at first I was shocked
and put off a bit by the price, but after I considered it some more it made
sense to me.  But, like many other things, I am not sure I would fully
appreciate this $50/lb coffee and since I am enjoying my $6/lb coffee quite
well at the moment, my personal choice will be to stay with it until I've
learned enough to move on to the better stuff. 
And while I do welcome the notion of good coffees being rewarded with high
prices, I do hope that it is economically sustainable to obtain some high
quality coffees at $5-10/lb. since it might price a lot of Novice roasters
out of the homeroasting market if everything was Kona prices.  Also, I've
had a hard enough time convincing people to spend $0.20/cup for homeroast
instead of Folgers despite the quality difference.  They'd laugh me out of
the office at $1.00/cup.  (Ironic since they have no trouble paying this at
the Charbucks across the street, ah well such is life.) 
Cheers,
-- 
Steven Hay
hay.steve -AT- gmail.com
Barry Paradox: Consider k to be the greatest element of the set of natural
numbers whose description require maximum of 50 words: "(k+1) is a natural
number which requires more than 50 words to describe it." 

41) From: Don Cummings
On 6/3/06, Michael Wascher  wrote:
<Snip>
Right with you on this Michael.  I won't even consider buying a lb of this
as a green but I would welcome the opportunity to pay $5 or even more for a
FP pot roasted by Tom.
The fact is it may be great but at this stage of my coffee tastebud
development I believe I would get a lot more enjoment out of 12 lbs of
$5 greens
<Snip>

42) From: James House
Plus I don't think it would feel right having a cup of that coffee with my
frozen pillsbury toaster scrambler.....  :)
On 6/3/06, Don Cummings  wrote:
<Snip>

43) From: Les
Don,
I have ordered Tom's coffee and roasted the same greens on the same
day.  I am a real snob.  I liked my roast better than his!  By the
way, I taste tested with a blind test and two of the same French
Presses.  My wife mixed them up and poured the cups for the test.
Come on you can do it yourself!   Roasting can be rocket science, but
you can get good results with just a little experience.  On the other
hand, I for one would be willing to roast some of the  CoE winner for
anyone on the list if you buy the beans and pay for the shipping.
I am sure there are others who would do the same.
Les
On 6/3/06, Don Cummings  wrote:
<Snip>

44) From: Don Cummings
Its not the roasting part, its the 12 lbs of great greens for the same price
that's the stopping point. I have 12 5 lb bags (as well as many 2
lbers) from which I am able to pull amazing coffee.  The Geisha may be
better (maybe a transcendental experience) and I would love to try a cup to
see for myself but I can't get over the fact that I would be able to add
three more 5 lb bags to my stash for the price of one lb of the star.
When I was wine collector I had the honor and privilege to enjoy a famous
bottle of wine that was confirmed to have come from Adolf Hitler's private
collection at the Wolf's Lair.  Our host paid over $36k for a case of this
'39 Chateau Lafite at a Sotheby's auction.  He offered to sell us each a
bottle at his cost. My two friends took him up on this offer but I was
unable to get over the idea that I could add 6 or 7 cases of special (if not
historic) Grand Crus to my collection for the same investment.
I guess I haven't changed much in 20 years.  :)
On 6/3/06, Les  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Don

45) From: Michael Wascher
There is a point of diminishing returns too.
I love a good brandy. Many years ago Money magazine had an article about
Cognacs. They had experts perform a blind taste test of several high end
bottles. I did buy the #2 bottle at just under $50, and it was excellent.
The #1 bottle was rated just barely better and cost was about $700 IIRC.
And my favorite is still Asbach . Single origins can
be interesting, but for real control it's hard to beat a blend.
On 6/4/06, Don Cummings  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
"There is nothing new under the sun but there are lots of old things we
don't know." --  Ambrose Bierce

46) From: Les
Don,
I hope no one on the list thinks that I am advocating that everyone
should buy the $50 plus coffee when and if Tom offers it.  Going back
to the "old days" when you were lucky to get three coffees in the
stash, my three at the present time would be Uganda Bugisu ($4.90 a
pound); PNG Kimel Plantation ( $4.90 a pound) and Mexican Oaxaca Finca
El Olivo ($5.00 a pound)  If you told me I could only order 3 coffees
it would be those three.   With these three coffees I would have
plenty of varietal  variation.  I would be able to make 4 really great
espresso blends.  They all take different roast levels very well, so
by using different roast levels I could even enjoy all of them as SO
espresso shots.  A light city of Bugisu or the El Olivo makes some of
the best brewed coffee known to mankind in my opinion.  In some ways
that is the irony of all this.  Tom offers exceptional coffee no
matter what the price.  However with that all said and done.  They
review of the Esmeralda Special tells us that the judges were blown
away by this stuff too.  I had the Geisha from last year and it was
special.  What blows me away is you can get the 3rd place winner that
sold for $14.20 a pound for $5.70 a pound right now from Sweet Marias!
 Now back to why we homeroast!  You can buy last years Geisha that we
paid less than $25.00 a pound for green, roasted from Groundworks
Coffee for $49.00 a pound!  It will not be roasted the way I would
like it I am sure.  It will not be as fresh as I want it either!  Tell
me where is the fun factor in buying from them?  Tom has many
interesting coffees for less that ten bucks a pound.  Nobody on the
list should feel pressured into buying something.  What I enjoy is
hearing about the joy different coffees or blends bring to people in
the group and I wish there was more of that sharing going on.
Les
On 6/3/06, Don Cummings  wrote:
<Snip>

47) From: raymanowen
"at this stage of my coffee tastebud development I believe I would get a lot
more enjoment out of 12 lbs of $5 greens"
My thoughts exactly, Michael, although at the 12# quantity, you'll have
gotten a price break.
If I purchased some green coffee in a one pound quantity, I certainly would
Not be able to experiment with it to find my favorite of the roasting,
aging, grinding, brewing and serving variables! Dummkopf sample size for me
I have learned to pay attention to Tom's notes. If my first excursion with
the beans results in a blast of "Gott in Himmel!" (Like the  E.H. Horse +
Sumatra Mandheling treasure, when I tried to extrapolate a cupping
experience to the TechniVorm quantity), I won't try to fix it. -For a while,
anyway.
I use a Gold #4 cone filter which allows some residual ultra fines, in spite
of the new burrs in the gray fire hydrant, to pass. If you drink it right,
that adds a whole dimension to the flavor. Paper filters give a clean cup,
but an incredible tantalizing facet of flavor is missing.
One trick I like to pull occasionally is to roast a pound just to the start
of First Crack, then Grand Slam cool them- rosten Halt! Later I pull a 40-
60g sample to roast further in an air popper or the F/R. Advancing the roast
is neat. Retarding it is a b. I love it!
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
-- 
"When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the Mighty
Wichita WurliTzer- 1976

48) From: Michael Wade
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
"I'm going to sip on my Lagavulin and give this a rest."
What an idea!  I've got a little left of the 1980 Double Matured =
Lagavulin that my wife brought back to me from Scotland (God, I love =
that woman!).  Just imagine that wonderful smoky scotch with a cup of =
the "$50" coffe back.  ...a tiny sip of this, a sip of that.  Oh, my.
Michael Wade

49) From: B. Scott Harroff
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
I do believe I'll try that, if I can get a bit of the famous $50/lb coffee.
1980 double matured.wow..I've just got the regular ole' 16 year old.  Still
wonder stuff though and definitely carries the Lagavulin smokiness.  
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Michael Wade
Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 2:27 PM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +Panama auction
"I'm going to sip on my Lagavulin and give this a rest."
What an idea!  I've got a little left of the 1980 Double Matured Lagavulin
that my wife brought back to me from Scotland (God, I love that woman!).
Just imagine that wonderful smoky scotch with a cup of the "$50" coffe back.
...a tiny sip of this, a sip of that.  Oh, my.
Michael Wade 

50) From: Michael Dhabolt
Michael
<Snip>
coffe back.  ...a tiny sip of this, a sip of that.<
I love your thinking, re: Lagavulin.  A 'Bit of the Bog'  followed by
a world class highland coffee.  May I add: followed by The Glenlivet
and several shots of Monkey.
Mike (just plain)

51) From: Don Cummings
Alright Les,
You have convinced me.  Now I need to come up with more $ to purchase some
Bugisu and the Oaxaca.  My three at this particular moment are the India
Matad, a Malawi Mzuzu, and the Harar Lot 30.  This could change at any
moment as I have 7 lbs of the Carmen 1800+ with a C+ batch resting.  I also
have a 5 lber of the Kimel which I haven't tried yet.
Ray brings up the biggest point for me against the Geisha. When I first
started roasting I was content to purchase 1 lb lots just to get a bean into
my collection and to give it a try.  I am at the point however where I don't
feel I can get the true experience from a bean without doing several batches
to compare and contrast roasts, to home in on the sweet spot and to
thoroughly explore brew methods for each roast.  Then, once I have found my
sweet spot for a particular bean I find it tragic if I don't have a nice
stash of the bean left to enjoy for myself and, just as importantly, to
share with friends and family. One pound is just not enough for this
exploration imo. If I started talking about this wonderful coffee with my
father his only question would be "where's my batch?"
That said. At this particular moment in time I simply do not have the
financial wherewithal to drop 2 month's budget for beans on less than a
week's supply (let alone a comfortable 5 lb bag.)  If I was at the point
where there was no competition for that precious disposable income it would
be nice to see a 5 lb bag of the Geisha in my collection.
On 6/4/06, Les  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Don

52) From: Sandy Andina
--Apple-Mail-10--654439206
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset-ASCII;
	delsp=yes;
	format=flowed
Ah, Asbach!  My first trip to Europe back in 1990 was with a local  
wine merchant--he and one of his salesmen picked me up at the  
Frankfurt airport and our very first stop was the Asbach distillery,  
where we were each given a tour, a delightful lunch, a liter of  
brandy and two pounds of Asbach-Uralt-filled chocolates.  I wish I  
could remember if it's alambic-distilled like cognac, though.
Favorite cognac around my house is Pierre Ferrand Ambre--under $35 a  
fifth at Sam's Wines & Spirits in-store and online (NOT to be  
confused with "Sam's Club"), and it consistently blind-tastes better  
than its more expensive brandmate the Reserve and most of the big  
names like Martell, Remy, Hennessy and Courvoisier (at least at the  
VS and VSOP levels). It is a "fine Champagne" cognac--100% from the  
Grande and Petite Champagne subregions; many of the "big boys" add  
brandy from grapes grown in the Borderies and Fins Bois. We used to  
be able to find Salignac (a subsidiary of Courvoisier) XO for under  
$25 around here, but it seems to have disappeared off store shelves.
On Jun 4, 2006, at 9:39 AM, Michael Wascher wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
--Apple-Mail-10--654439206
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charsetO-8859-1
Ah, Asbach!  My first trip to =
Europe back in 1990 was with a local wine merchant--he and one of his =
salesmen picked me up at the Frankfurt airport and our very first stop =
was the Asbach distillery, where we were each given a tour, a delightful =
lunch, a liter of brandy and two pounds of Asbach-Uralt-filled =
chocolates.  I wish I could remember if it's alambic-distilled like =
cognac, though.
Favorite cognac around my = house is Pierre Ferrand Ambre--under $35 a fifth at Sam's Wines & = Spirits in-store and online (NOT to be confused with "Sam's Club"), and = it consistently blind-tastes better than its more expensive brandmate = the Reserve and most of the big names like Martell, Remy, Hennessy and = Courvoisier (at least at the VS and VSOP levels). It is a "fine = Champagne" cognac--100% from the Grande and Petite Champagne subregions; = many of the "big boys" add brandy from grapes grown in the Borderies and = Fins Bois. We used to be able to find Salignac (a subsidiary of = Courvoisier) XO for under $25 around here, but it seems to have = disappeared off store shelves. On Jun 4, 2006, at 9:39 AM, = Michael Wascher wrote:
There is a = point of diminishing returns too. I love a good brandy. Many = years ago Money magazine had an article about Cognacs. They had experts = perform a blind taste test of several high end bottles. I did buy the #2 = bottle at just under $50, and it was excellent. The #1 bottle was rated = just barely better and cost was about $700 IIRC. And my = favorite is still Asbach. Single = origins can be interesting, but for real control it's hard to beat a = blend. On 6/4/06, Don Cummings <donrcummings> = wrote: Its not the roasting part, its the 12 lbs of great = greens for the same price that's the stopping point. I have 12 5 lb bags = (as well as many 2 lbers) from which I am able to pull amazing = coffee.  The Geisha may be better (maybe a transcendental experience) = and I would love to try a cup to see for myself but I can't get over the = fact that I would be able to add three more 5 lb bags to my stash for = the price of one lb of the star.   When I was wine = collector I had the honor and privilege to enjoy a famous bottle of wine = that was confirmed to have come from Adolf Hitler's private collection = at the Wolf's Lair.  Our host paid over $36k for a case of this '39 = Chateau Lafite at a Sotheby's auction.  He offered to sell us each a = bottle at his cost. My two friends took him up on this offer but I was = unable to get over the idea that I could add 6 or 7 cases of special (if = not historic) Grand Crus to my collection for the same investment. =   I guess I haven't changed much in 20 years.  = :)   = On 6/3/06, Les <les.albjerg> = wrote: Don, I have ordered Tom's coffee and roasted the same greens on = the same day.  I am a real snob.  I liked my roast better = than his!  By the way, I taste tested with a blind test and two = of the same French Presses.  My wife mixed them up and poured the = cups for the test. Come on you can do it yourself!   Roasting can = be rocket science, but you can get good results with just a little = experience.  On the other hand, I for one would be willing to = roast some of the  CoE winner for anyone on the list if you buy = the beans and pay for the shipping. I am sure there are others who = would do the same. Les On 6/3/06, Don Cummings < donrcummings> = wrote: > > > > On 6/3/06, Michael Wascher < wascher> = wrote: > > > > I'm not ready to try my hand at = roasting this coffee. I'd certainly like > to try a cup or two, = roasted & brewed by a master. > > Right with you on this = Michael.  I won't even consider buying a lb of this > as a = green but I would welcome the opportunity to pay $5 or even more for = a > FP pot roasted by Tom. > > The fact is it may be = great but at this stage of my coffee tastebud > development I = believe I would get a lot more enjoment out of 12 lbs of > $5 = greens > = > > homeroa= st mailing list =http://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast To = change your personal list settings (digest options, vacations, = unsvbscribes) go to =http://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings=
-- = Don =
-- "There = is nothing new under the sun but there are lots of old things we don't = know." --  Ambrose Bierce = = --Apple-Mail-10--654439206--

53) From: Michael Wascher
Asbach is a blended brandy. Asbach buys wines, about 200 every year IIRC,
and distills them using both pot stills & vacuum stills. Their stash of
brandies is used to blend a consistent flavor, though it seems to change
slowly over time. I remember the Asbach of a couple decades ago started a
bit of the musty fruit flavor of fresh pressed wine. Now it starts out with
a more refined wiiney fruit flavor. The caramelly ending is still there,
though.
On 6/4/06, Sandy Andina  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
"There is nothing new under the sun but there are lots of old things we
don't know." --  Ambrose Bierce


HomeRoast Digest