HomeRoast Digest


Topic: How important is quick cooling after roasting? (14 msgs / 337 lines)
1) From: DeCambre.Peter
I will be out of the office starting  11/26/2002 and will not return
until 12/02/2002.
I will respond to your message when I return.
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2) From: Frank Parth
I've been thinking about (ok, agonizing over) whether to replace my Z&D's with a more advanced machine. I'm torn between a HotTop and the Gene Cafe. (I also need to get it past "She who must be obeyed", but that's a different issue.)
I've read all the posts on one side or the other. The Gene Cafe has the ability to change temps during the roast itself, but has lousy cooling. The HotTop has great cooling, but you can't change the temp during the roast, only pre-setting a profile. 
In Ken Davids book Home Coffee Roasting, he says that cooling the beans quickly after they've been roasted is really critical. 
In the collective wisdom of the coffee gurus here, is it really that important to cool the beans quickly? The answer will probably determine which machine I buy.
Advice, please.
TIA
Frank Parth

3) From: Frank Parth
I've been thinking about (ok, agonizing over) whether to replace my Z&D's with a more advanced machine. I'm torn between a HotTop and the Gene Cafe. (I also need to get it past "She who must be obeyed", but that's a different issue.)
I've read all the posts on one side or the other. The Gene Cafe has the ability to change temps during the roast itself, but has lousy cooling. The HotTop has great cooling, but you can't change the temp during the roast, only pre-setting a profile. 
In Ken Davids book Home Coffee Roasting, he says that cooling the beans quickly after they've been roasted is really critical. 
In the collective wisdom of the coffee gurus here, is it really that important to cool the beans quickly? The answer will probably determine which machine I buy.
Advice, please.
TIA
Frank Parth

4) From: Scot Murphy
On Jun 11, 2006, at 12:07 AM, Frank Parth wrote:
<Snip>
I am in the vast minority in that I say, no, it isn't. I have much  
better results with my roasts when I let them cool at least a little  
slowly. My method is the pail-and-vacuum-and-strainer method: a kitty  
litter pail (washed out, natch) with a hole cut in the side for the  
hose of my vacuum cleaner and a wire-mesh strainer on top. I use some  
cloth as a collar around the strainer so I get better airflow. Now,  
with the caveat that I started using this method in the cold months  
when the air was in the 40s and 30s, I found that my roasts were  
coming out sort of flat and lifeless. A certain depth was missing. My  
beans were cooling in about a minute and that seemed too short. Then  
I tried sifting the beans for a minute or so first, using a smaller  
strainer with a handle, scooping them up and pouring them back in.  
After that minute, sometimes two, I would turn on the vacuum and let  
it cool down more rapidly. I noticed an improvement in my flavor  
right away--much richer, much deeper. Now, as the air temps have gone  
up, I have resorted to using the vacuum right away, as it now takes  
about the same amount of time to cool the beans as it did sifting  
them in cold air before vac'ing. All in all, I spend about three  
minutes cooling down the beans, and that gives me great flavor over a  
wide spectrum.
Now to take up my regular seat at the pariah's table. :)
Scot "has anyone found my missing sigs?" Murphy

5) From: raymanowen
"In Ken Davids book Home Coffee Roasting, he says that cooling the beans
quickly after they've been roasted is really critical."
I kind of agree with Davids here, but there's more to the story.
If you've done your homework, you know what you're after, and the best
roaster is the one that gets the beans roasted exactly the way you want. You
can dump them into a fast cooler at that point and you're happy and done.
Davids is right on.
If you have to "let them cool" at the end of the roast, they'll continue
roasting as long as they're still hot. So you start the cooldown soon enough
that the inertial roast doesn't incinerate the beans for you. Davids is
rong. Right?
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
Got Grinder?

6) From: Pecan Jim Gundlach
Cooling down should be thought of as part of the roasting process.   
In general, I think coffee improves if the temperature is held at or  
near the final roasting temperature for a few minutes before bringing  
the temperature down.  If your roast is for less than ten minutes and  
does not include relatively stable end, then I recommend a slow five  
to six minute cool down.  If your roasting includes the relatively  
stable end of a few minutes, I'd recommend getting the temperature  
down to a comfortable to touch level in two minutes or less.  I now  
follow the second pattern almost all the time.
         Jim Gundlach
On Jun 11, 2006, at 12:07 AM, Frank Parth wrote:
<Snip>

7) From: Vicki Smith
I asked a local roaster pro, whose coffee I enjoy, about this. I've not 
been at it long enough to have an opinion worth listening to (and I 
roast using an iRoast-2).
He was of the opinion that the further development in the cooling off 
period is just another part of the roasting profile that you should 
allow for, and depending on the machine, perhaps, to some extent, 
control. As we get to know our machines, we can get to know how we can 
arrive at what we are aiming for using the machine's features--including 
  the development that happens as the beans are cooling off. The cooling 
off period, in a machine like the Gene, would then become a constant, 
that would just sorta be there as you experimented with (and changed) 
your roast profiles.
vicki
Pecan Jim Gundlach wrote:
<Snip>
!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!**!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*
                 Taming Coffee: The Weblog
                 http://taming.motime.com

8) From: Ken Mary
<Snip>
Quick cooling is not important IMO. I "slow cool" most of my drum roasts in
the drum. The actual bean temperature approaches 160 to 170C (320 to 338F)
after 2 minutes of cooling. Then the roast is dumped on a tray for final
cooling. This method adds a pleasing spiciness to the coffee. In my previous
work I have not achieved such a degree of spiciness in a conventional
profile.
Older work with poppers has shown that up to 6 minutes of this slow cooling
did not hurt the flavor.
Some of you may say that this is not really cooling, but a different roast
profile. I do not disagree, since roast reactions likely continue down to
about 150C or 300F.
Whichever machine you choose should give you good results, but I have no
experience with either.
--

9) From: Alchemist John
I think that "quick cooling" is relative, and it has something to do 
with what you are roasting with, and the roast profile.  Are you air 
roasting where there MAY be a point where the roast would benefit 
from a little longer a high heat for flavor development?  Are you 
drum roasting at a 15 minute profile where when you are done, you are 
done - in that case you want to quench the roast.
Regardless, "quick" is too generic a term for all the TC, profiles, 
measurements etc that goes on here.  I think the best answer is it is 
important to actively cool the beans.  Doing that, 1-4 minutes should 
get them to near room temperature and is good.  I generally roast a 
12-16 oz at a time - it is difficult if not impossible to get all the 
beans too cool in a minute, but OTOH, 4 oz I can have cool in a 
minute.  Both work and taste fine.
At 22:29 6/10/2006, you wrote:
<Snip>
John Nanci
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.chocolatealchemy.com/

10) From: Ken Mary
<Snip>
I have found that my drum roasts where the final actual bean temp is
constant for two or three minutes will kill the brightness. I have recently
shifted my profiles from a 5C per minute to an 8C per minute finish ramp
resulting in improved brightness which I prefer.
--

11) From: Pecan Jim Gundlach
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On Jun 11, 2006, at 8:02 AM, Ken Mary wrote:
<Snip>
My preferences are different.  I prefer body over brightness so to me  
improving brightness means muting it not enhancing it.
       Jim Gundlach
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On Jun 11, 2006, =
at 8:02 AM, Ken Mary wrote:

 I have recently

shifted my profiles from a = 5C per minute to an 8C per minute finish ramp

resulting in improved = brightness which I prefer.


My preferences are = different.  I prefer body over brightness so to me improving = brightness means muting it not enhancing it.
      Jim = Gundlach= --Apple-Mail-28--72562263--

12) From: raymanowen
Again- I have a large screen mesh colander sitting in a blower intake. With
a heat gun and mixer bowl, 400g is an easily-controllable roast. I did 800g
just once- it's a bit too much to control very easily.
But, when the roast is done- it may have taken 16 minutes to coax a snap or
two of 2nd- it's done. When the roast is done, you probably want to 
Even if I hit a smoking second, I can turn on the blower lying on its side,
dump the roast in the colander, and in 10 seconds they're plenty cool enough
to stir around with my bare hands. After 20 seconds, they're dead cold. If
the roast is done, Stop It.
I'm enjoying some Panama Auction Lot Cafe de Elita/ Panama Berlina blend,
both at FC. It's unbelievable!
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
El Stoppo at 100 deg K / second! (Same as 180 degrees F/ sec.)

13) From: Maryann & Dave Schellenberg
Frank Parth wrote:
<Snip>
You can't pre-set a profile on the HotTop, just a length of roast.
Dave S.
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14) From: Scot Murphy
On Jun 9, 2006, at 6:49 PM, Frank Parth wrote:
<Snip>
Whoa! Deja vu!
Scot "I don't have to re-answer, do I?" Murphy


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