HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Question for Mike McKoffee . . . or anybody who wants to voice an opinion . . . (7 msgs / 340 lines)
1) From: Rose Lee Geiger
I know you said that you think grinding the coffee bean is probably the most
important part of the Great-Cup-of-Coffee equation.  I've been reading a LOT
about this subject, and you obviously have many who agree with you.   I
can't help asking . . . If one never plans on making a cup of Expresso, and
will probably always make coffee in some kind of a drip coffee maker . . .
and will probably very seldom if ever make more than 6 cups of coffee at a
time, why wouldn't a small Burr Grinder like the Cuisenart, or Melitta
Coffee grinder do an adequate job.  NOW, I must ask this question . . .while
we have tried Expresso a couple of times, we were never happy with it . . .
is there a chance that after one gets used to a really GOOD cup of coffee,
they might learn to like Expresso?
    GOOD GRIEF!  I think I keep getting mixed up on who says what on this
list!  So forgive me if I give credit to the wrong person for some of the
good advice I'm getting!  I take it there is more than ONE Mike on this list
. . . and I now know that it was VINCE DOSS who assured us it was okay to
Drink Coffee at McDonalds!  Just remember!  YOU TOO will get confused if you
you live LONG ENOUGH!!!!
           Rose and John . . . thinking seriously about replacing our tiny
Braun Coffee Grinder.  What about replacing it with that Bodum C-Mill blade
coffee grinder that Tom has on the Sweet Maria site?

2) From: Barry Luterman
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
For me I started with brewed coffee and never thought I would go to =
espresso. My wife hated espresso and I liked it well enough. After 2 =
years of roasting.We make a brewed pot in the morning and then its =
espresso and espresso drinks till bed time. Yes we now drink coffee till =
bed time. Before home brewing we both could not drink coffee after 12 =
noon.Upgrade fever is a very real part of this hobby. See the 12 steps =
of CSA.
Coffee Snobs Association
The Twelve Steps of CSA
(or Anonymous - you're a member when you say you are:-)
1. We admitted we were powerless over fresh home roasted coffee, but of =
course we can manage it.
2. We came to believe that no power could force us to drink pre-roasted =
or pre-ground or perish the thought canned coffee.
3. We made a decision to turn our will and our bank accounts over to the =
care of Tom and Sweet Maria's, as we understood him.
4. We made a searching and fearless inventory of our greens stash.
5. We admitted to no one they knew more about coffee than we did.
6. We were entirely ready to have inferior coffee removed from lives =
forever.
7. We humbly asked our spouse for a larger coffee budget.
8. We made a list of all persons not home roasting, and became willing =
to convert them all.
9. We made direct donations of fresh home roasted coffee to such people =
wherever possible, except when to do so would deplete our precious =
stash.
10. We continued to take stash inventory, and when low or not promptly =
ordered more.
11. We sought through new and exotic roasting and brewing methods to =
improve of coffee consumption, as we knew it to be best, begging only =
for money to carry that out.
12. Having had a coffee awakening as a result of those steps, we tried =
to force this message on sludge drinkers and to perfect these principles =
in all our cups.
*13. Continued to buy any and every green recommended seeking ways to =
store and means to justify our excessive beans inventory to our spouse.
(Modified without permission with no offense intended. Similar steps =
saved, and continue to save, my life!)
First post on Sweet Maria's Home Roast List June 16, 2002
by Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee

3) From: Sandy Andina
Hi Rose and John,
	First of all, it is highly likely that you have never tasted =
really  
good espresso (with an "s," not an "x"). Not trying to be elitist or  
condescending here--most people in the U.S. never have. 95% of  
Americans (perhaps even more) have had no exposure to espresso that  
wasn't either stale, over-roasted (think the ubiquitous Starbucks),  
or improperly made (in underpowered home steam or thermoblock  
machines, or in restaurants from pods, capsules, or superautomatics  
using stale beans).  I can count on the fingers of one hand the times  =
I have had a properly made and palatable espresso in a U.S.  
restaurant--and that includes Italian restaurants in non-Italian  
neighborhoods and some five-star fine dining establishments.  (In  
case you are interested, the good stuff came from One-Sixty Blue and  
Trattoria La Bocca Della Verita in Chicago, Ferrara Cafe & Pastry-- 
okay, not truly a restaurant--in NYC's Little Italy, and Trattoria  
D.O.C. in Evanston, IL). Until the Seattle coffee revolution (post- 
Starbucks), few coffeehouses in America other than those catering to  
Italian and former-Yugoslavian emigrés served a proper espresso equal  =
to what you could get at any truck stop or corner bar in Italy. It  
was at La Bocca that I had my first good restaurant espresso, and I  
asked the owner (recently arrived from Rome) where he got his beans,  
he laughed and said, "a guy in Seattle named Mauro, and you need a  
REAL machine to make it." I  got the name of the roaster, Caffe  
d'Arte, and visited the shop next time I was in Seattle. For years  
after that I got my beans by mail order from them and Espresso Vivace  =
in Seattle. Then first Intelligentsia and Metropolis Coffee Roasters  
opened here in Chicago--and that raised the bar for what could be  
achieved locally. I ditched my cheapo Capresso machine (the last in a  =
succession of consumer-grade wannabes) and bought first a Silvia and  
then a Pasquini Livia--and eventually replaced my cheap Braun burr  
grinder with a Rocky and a Mazzer Mini.   Whenever I travel now, I  
seek out the coffeehouses making real espresso the right way.
So if you do not live where you can taste a true, properly made and  
fresh espresso, there is nothing wrong or unsophisticated about not  
liking espresso.  IMHO, bad espresso is worse than none at all.  
(Starbucks is for staying awake on the tollways). If that's the case,  =
concentrate on making and drinking the best brewed coffee you can.   
That Bodum C-Mill is adequate, but you'll find that a good burr  
grinder like the Bodum Antigua is much, much better at only about  
twice the price. Even the best blade grinder will "cook" the beans  
and chop them up unevenly, producing dust that makes bitter coffee.   
(And RayManOwen will take me out to the woodshed for this, but for  
regular beans for brewed coffee, I use a--GASP!--Solis Maestro Plus;  
and on the road I use a Starbucks blade grinder if I need to grind  
more coffee for drip faster than I can do with a hand grinder).
On Jun 12, 2006, at 3:04 PM, Rose Lee Geiger wrote:
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com

4) From: Sandy Andina
Hi Rose and John,
	First of all, it is highly likely that you have never tasted =
really  
good espresso (with an "s," not an "x"). Not trying to be elitist or  
condescending here--most people in the U.S. never have. 95% of  
Americans (perhaps even more) have had no exposure to espresso that  
wasn't either stale, over-roasted (think the ubiquitous Starbucks),  
or improperly made (in underpowered home steam or thermoblock  
machines, or in restaurants from pods, capsules, or superautomatics  
using stale beans).  I can count on the fingers of one hand the times  =
I have had a properly made and palatable espresso in a U.S.  
restaurant--and that includes Italian restaurants in non-Italian  
neighborhoods and some five-star fine dining establishments.  (In  
case you are interested, the good stuff came from One-Sixty Blue and  
Trattoria La Bocca Della Verita in Chicago, Ferrara Cafe & Pastry-- 
okay, not truly a restaurant--in NYC's Little Italy, and Trattoria  
D.O.C. in Evanston, IL). Until the Seattle coffee revolution (post- 
Starbucks), few coffeehouses in America other than those catering to  
Italian and former-Yugoslavian emigrés served a proper espresso equal  =
to what you could get at any truck stop or corner bar in Italy. It  
was at La Bocca that I had my first good restaurant espresso, and I  
asked the owner (recently arrived from Rome) where he got his beans,  
he laughed and said, "a guy in Seattle named Mauro, and you need a  
REAL machine to make it." I  got the name of the roaster, Caffe  
d'Arte, and visited the shop next time I was in Seattle. For years  
after that I got my beans by mail order from them and Espresso Vivace  =
in Seattle. Then first Intelligentsia and Metropolis Coffee Roasters  
opened here in Chicago--and that raised the bar for what could be  
achieved locally. I ditched my cheapo Capresso machine (the last in a  =
succession of consumer-grade wannabes) and bought first a Silvia and  
then a Pasquini Livia--and eventually replaced my cheap Braun burr  
grinder with a Rocky and a Mazzer Mini.   Whenever I travel now, I  
seek out the coffeehouses making real espresso the right way.
So if you do not live where you can taste a true, properly made and  
fresh espresso, there is nothing wrong or unsophisticated about not  
liking espresso.  IMHO, bad espresso is worse than none at all.  
(Starbucks is for staying awake on the tollways). If that's the case,  =
concentrate on making and drinking the best brewed coffee you can.   
That Bodum C-Mill is adequate, but you'll find that a good burr  
grinder like the Bodum Antigua is much, much better at only about  
twice the price. Even the best blade grinder will "cook" the beans  
and chop them up unevenly, producing dust that makes bitter coffee.   
(And RayManOwen will take me out to the woodshed for this, but for  
regular beans for brewed coffee, I use a--GASP!--Solis Maestro Plus;  
and on the road I use a Starbucks blade grinder if I need to grind  
more coffee for drip faster than I can do with a hand grinder).
On Jun 12, 2006, at 3:04 PM, Rose Lee Geiger wrote:
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com

5) From: Woody DeCasere
for drip coffee the c mill will do a fine job, there really is no need for a
$100 plus grinder for drip, i even use it for my FP, with a little shakedown
during the grind i get very even results.
Now for espresso no way!
Woody
-- 
"Good night, and Good Coffee"

6) From: Sandy Andina
--Apple-Mail-1-41732638
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain;
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	format=flowed
uh, isn't a Mazzer a burr grinder, as opposed to a blade grinder?  
(did you mean "blade" rather than "burr")?
On Jun 12, 2006, at 4:24 PM, pchforever wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
--Apple-Mail-1-41732638
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset-ASCII
uh, isn't a Mazzer a burr =
grinder, as opposed to a blade grinder? (did you mean "blade" rather =
than "burr")?
On Jun 12, 2006, at 4:24 PM, pchforever =
wrote:

I use a = mini mazzer, I drink 97% espresso, I cannot get the grind I want from a = burr grinder.

= --Apple-Mail-1-41732638--

7) From: miKe mcKoffee
I agree to disagree. (Yes, this debate has been going on for years!-) No
blade whirly chop aka grinder wannabe produces an even grind. Therefore the
grinds produced cannot extract evenly regardless the brewing method. Will
fresh roasted rested coffee whirly chopped dripped or Press coffee be mucho
superior to pre-ground drivel? Of course, but fresh roasted rested quality
burr ground coffee will be superior yet. It's a matter of what level of good
versus the best it can be a person is willing to settle on. 
There are many "hits" against cheapo burr grinders IMO, having gone through
buying 5 burr grinders in a year's time leading up to a Rocky, and later
adding a Mazzer Super Jolly. Uneven dusty grind, static, noise, heat from
high rpm vs good low end torque and possibly the biggest "hit" burrs are not
replaceable meaning people will use them for years and years with the burrs
constantly gradually getting duller and duller over time and hence the cup
deteriorating over time. With a grinder like Rocky grind benefits and hence
the cup replacing the burrs every 1 to 2 years depending on usage.
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
	From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Woody DeCasere
	Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 1:59 PM
	
	for drip coffee the c mill will do a fine job, there really is no
need for a $100 plus grinder for drip, i even use it for my FP, with a
little shakedown during the grind i get very even results.  
	
	Now for espresso no way! 
	
	Woody


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