HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Roasting, Grinding, Brewing for Office Bunn? (18 msgs / 640 lines)
1) From: John McPhail
I'm a little frustrated.
I took in some Yemen Matari to the office last week and tried brewing  
it in the office Bunn PVR series ( 2 warmers, you pour water in the  
tank through a screen in the top ). My office buddies are used to a  
steady diet of Folgers, and they measure 5 or 6 little pointy scoops  
per pot. I measured 7 little pointy scoops and the result was way too  
weak. The next pot I used 8 scoops - still way too weak. It looked  
like iced tea.
I roasted some SM Moka Kadir blend pretty dark ( for me ) over the  
weeekend, into 2nd crack, I would call it a Vienna, probably 15  
seconds into 2nd crack. I ground two notches finer on the Virtuoso  
( I normally grind drip for my Technivorm at 20 ).
I brewed the next pot with 8 scoops - still too weak. Then I brewed  
one with 9 scoops. Still too weak.
I've brewed these same roasts in my Technivorm and they were good -  
rich tasting, good body, aftertaste, aroma, everything seemed fine.
On the Bunn, they're too weak. How can 6 scoops of Folgers taste  
right ( well, as right as Folgers can taste ) and 9 scoops of home  
roast taste too weak? Is that the effect of the Robusta in Folgers?
We've brewed other coffees in it - someone brought Gevalia which is  
ground very fine, it was OK but the brew seemed a little off, and  
we've run quite a bit of Community Dark drip grind ( coarser ) that  
was quite good for store-bought. A sweet, dark roast - I have no idea  
what beans are in Community.
The Bunn has a flat-bottomed basket and a shower-head sprayer, and  
brews a restaurant-style carafe of coffee in about 3 minutes. My  
guess is the combination of the basket shape and the short brew time  
result in underextraction?
Your advice is appreciated!
John

2) From: Brett Mason
If you pour in only 1 cup of water, do you immediately get 1 cup through to
the caraffe?
I'd recommend you pour from an empty caraffe, just 1 cup, and let it get the
grounds good and wet.  Wait a full minute.  Then pour in the rest of the
water for the pot.  You'll be working with better saturated grounds, and
your coffee will improve.
But I took my Bunn back.  Still didn't get where I wanted..
Regards,
Brett
On 6/13/06, John McPhail  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Regards,
Brett Mason
HomeRoast
   Zassman

3) From: John McPhail
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I'll test it today. I suspect the answer is yes. The machine keeps a  
reservoir of hot water, when you pour through the top it "flushes"  
the reservoir through the brew basket.
<Snip>
I'll try it.
<Snip>
I might not be able to get what I want, either. In that case I'll  
leave the Bunn to the heathens and start using my 50oz. press.
Thanks!
<Snip>
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If you = pour in only 1 cup of water, do you immediately get 1 cup through to the = caraffe?
I'll test it today. I = suspect the answer is yes. The machine keeps a reservoir of hot water, = when you pour through the top it "flushes" the reservoir through the = brew basket. I'd recommend you pour = from an empty caraffe, just 1 cup, and let it get the grounds good and = wet.  Wait a full minute.  Then pour in the rest of the water for = the pot.  You'll be working with better saturated grounds, and your = coffee will improve.
I'll try = it. But I took my Bunn back.  = Still didn't get where I wanted..
I might not be able to get = what I want, either. In that case I'll leave the Bunn to the heathens = and start using my 50oz. press.
Thanks!
On 6/13/06, John McPhail <jmcphail> = wrote: I'm a little frustrated. I took in some Yemen Matari to = the office last week and tried brewing it in the office Bunn PVR = series ( 2 warmers, you pour water in the tank through a screen in = the top ). My office buddies are used to a steady diet of Folgers, = and they measure 5 or 6 little pointy scoops per pot. I measured 7 = little pointy scoops and the result was way too weak. The next pot I = used 8 scoops - still way too weak. It looked like iced tea. = I roasted some SM Moka Kadir blend pretty dark ( for me ) over = the weeekend, into 2nd crack, I would call it a Vienna, probably = 15 seconds into 2nd crack. I ground two notches finer on the = Virtuoso ( I normally grind drip for my Technivorm at 20 ). I = brewed the next pot with 8 scoops - still too weak. Then I brewed one = with 9 scoops. Still too weak. I've brewed these same roasts in = my Technivorm and they were good - rich tasting, good body, = aftertaste, aroma, everything seemed fine. On the Bunn, they're = too weak. How can 6 scoops of Folgers taste right ( well, as right as = Folgers can taste ) and 9 scoops of home roast taste too weak? Is = that the effect of the Robusta in Folgers? We've brewed other = coffees in it - someone brought Gevalia which is ground very fine, it = was OK but the brew seemed a little off, and we've run quite a bit of = Community Dark drip grind ( coarser ) that was quite good for = store-bought. A sweet, dark roast - I have no idea what beans are in = Community. The Bunn has a flat-bottomed basket and a shower-head = sprayer, and brews a restaurant-style carafe of coffee in about 3 = minutes. My guess is the combination of the basket shape and the = short brew time result in underextraction? Your advice is = appreciated! John= homeroast mailing list =http://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroastTo change = your personal list settings (digest options, vacations, unsvbscribes) go = to http://=sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings =
-- = Regards, Brett Mason HomeRoast    = Zassman = --Apple-Mail-1-96667510--

4) From: Michael Wade
John, do you have a way to check the brew temperature in the basket?  We 
have a similar machine at our office and I can pull the basket out enough to 
stick a probe in without making a mess.  You'll probably find the 
temperature is pretty low.
I bought a Nicro vac pot on ebay, tried it out at the office with the same 
coffee they brew in the drip machine and the increased brew temp made the 
coffee unbelievably strong!  Perhaps the commercial coffee is blended for 
lower brew temps?
I'd go with the FP and forget the machine.
Michael

5) From: John McPhail
On Jun 13, 2006, at 9:08 AM, Michael Wade wrote:
<Snip>
This may be the thing that finally forces me to buy a thermocouple  
thermometer. I could easily slide a probe into the brew basket.
<Snip>
I'm keeping that option open!
Thanks,
-John

6) From: Diablo
I have tried the same thing, and came away with the same weak notes.  The
brewer is crap, and as noted I'd suspect as well that can coffee is "enhanced"
to accomodate low brew temps.  
This made me think recently of why charbucks knows no other kind of roast just
short of charcoal.  It's to accomodate those same low temp brewer's I think.  
Soon I'm going to try roasting into/past french and make a run at the office
brewer again.  
Leo
--- Michael Wade  wrote:
<Snip>

7) From: raymanowen
"leave the Bunn to the heathens..."
I did that over 25 years ago. Boyer sold me the Bunn Office brewer and I
took it to work when I was doing oil shale research in the Mining building @
Mines in Golden. Then one of the office gals followed her nose...
The end of that story is that when the soft money for oil shale projects
expired, they bought the ofice brewer when I "made the move."
I was grinding and brewing Boyer's Columbian or his breakfast blend. The
Grindmaster mill easily got it finer than normal drip grind. Certainly, none
of us ever thought the coffee was  lacking in strength. I brewed it to suit
myself and they loved it.
The actual brew time on all of my Bunns was pretty short- usually ~17
seconds for first coffee out of the basket after I started pouring the
water.
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
Ersatz grinders  ==> Ersatz coffee

8) From: Sandy Andina
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We had a Bunn in my office years ago, and if you tried to brew too  
soon after the initial filling, the water in the reservoir never got  
quite hot enough. We made pot after pot all day long, so each  
subsequent fill also was too cold.
On Jun 13, 2006, at 7:42 AM, John McPhail wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
--Apple-Mail-11-112622310
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We had a Bunn in my office years =
ago, and if you tried to brew too soon after the initial filling, the =
water in the reservoir never got quite hot enough. We made pot after pot =
all day long, so each subsequent fill also was too cold.
On =
Jun 13, 2006, at 7:42 AM, John McPhail wrote:


If you = pour in only 1 cup of water, do you immediately get 1 cup through to the = caraffe?
I'll test it today. I = suspect the answer is yes. The machine keeps a reservoir of hot water, = when you pour through the top it "flushes" the reservoir through the = brew basket. I'd recommend you pour = from an empty caraffe, just 1 cup, and let it get the grounds good and = wet.  Wait a full minute.  Then pour in the rest of the water for = the pot.  You'll be working with better saturated grounds, and your = coffee will improve.
I'll try = it. But I took my Bunn back.  = Still didn't get where I wanted..
I might not be able to get = what I want, either. In that case I'll leave the Bunn to the heathens = and start using my 50oz. press.
Thanks!
On 6/13/06, John McPhail <jmcphail> = wrote: I'm a little frustrated. I took in some Yemen Matari to = the office last week and tried brewing it in the office Bunn PVR = series ( 2 warmers, you pour water in the tank through a screen in = the top ). My office buddies are used to a steady diet of Folgers, = and they measure 5 or 6 little pointy scoops per pot. I measured 7 = little pointy scoops and the result was way too weak. The next pot I = used 8 scoops - still way too weak. It looked like iced tea. = I roasted some SM Moka Kadir blend pretty dark ( for me ) over = the weeekend, into 2nd crack, I would call it a Vienna, probably = 15 seconds into 2nd crack. I ground two notches finer on the = Virtuoso ( I normally grind drip for my Technivorm at 20 ). I = brewed the next pot with 8 scoops - still too weak. Then I brewed one = with 9 scoops. Still too weak. I've brewed these same roasts in = my Technivorm and they were good - rich tasting, good body, = aftertaste, aroma, everything seemed fine. On the Bunn, they're = too weak. How can 6 scoops of Folgers taste right ( well, as right as = Folgers can taste ) and 9 scoops of home roast taste too weak? Is = that the effect of the Robusta in Folgers? We've brewed other = coffees in it - someone brought Gevalia which is ground very fine, it = was OK but the brew seemed a little off, and we've run quite a bit of = Community Dark drip grind ( coarser ) that was quite good for = store-bought. A sweet, dark roast - I have no idea what beans are in = Community. The Bunn has a flat-bottomed basket and a shower-head = sprayer, and brews a restaurant-style carafe of coffee in about 3 = minutes. My guess is the combination of the basket shape and the = short brew time result in underextraction? Your advice is = appreciated! John= homeroast mailing list =http://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroastTo change = your personal list settings (digest options, vacations, unsvbscribes) go = to http://=sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings =
-- = Regards, Brett Mason HomeRoast    = Zassman = --Apple-Mail-11-112622310--

9) From: John McPhail
I ground the coffee much finer today and it helped quite a bit.
I also realized that the office scoop is likely a 1 tablespoon scoop,  
while the scoop I use is a 2 tablespoon scoop. So I used my own scoop  
and guessed that the Bunn carafe holds 25% more than the Nissan  
Thermos I use with the Tehnivorm. So I used 7 of my own scoops ( 14  
tablespoons ) of more finely ground coffee today. I normally use 5  
scoops ( 10 tablespoons ) with the Technivorm.
The flavor was better but not much mouthfeel. Several people  
commented on a chocolately or cocoa aspect of the flavor, actually.
The discovery of the differences in the scoop sizes makes the  
original mystery even more mysterious - how can a a pot of Folgers  
made with only 5 or 6 tablespoons of ground coffee taste so strong?  
Someone mentioned earlier that they suspect that a low-quality store  
coffee like Folgers is treated somehow, and I had originally guessed  
that Robusta was contributing quite a bit to the flavor. Since I have  
no experience with Robusta, it's really just a guess.
I think my next step is to find a manual for the beast and figure out  
how to adjust the temperature, and measure it.
John McPhail
jmcphail
On Jun 13, 2006, at 7:20 AM, John McPhail wrote:
<Snip>

10) From: Sandy Andina
Most canned coffees have plenty of Robusta.
On Jun 13, 2006, at 6:34 PM, John McPhail wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com

11) From: miKe mcKoffee
<Snip>
Don't tell Juan!
miKe

12) From: Walter R. Basil
On Jun 13, 2006, at 8:27 PM, Sandy Andina  wrote:
<Snip>
I find the hottest time is immediately following the "gurgling" sound  
after you fill it. The Bunn has reached the end of the heating cycle  
and is now in holding mode until the next time the temp drops enough  
to trigger the heater to come back on. This usually takes around 8-10  
minutes after initial pour-in.
--
Walter R Basil
www.basilweb.net

13) From: Thbull
I wonder if a 'flow restricter' would help? I have heard about it on  
the list, but not ever used one. I am interested in this since, our  
church has several of these, and I would like to roast for them, but  
have heard of enough troubles here that I have been quite hesitant.  
At church I measured the carafe first, to know how much coffee to  
use; I forget now, but it quite a bit more than they usually used. I  
also had time to soak the grounds in a cup of hot water (cowboy  
coffee style) and then deposit the slurry into the filter and then  
add the hater.
-Thbull 'having problems with his Bunns' too
On Jun 13, 2006, at 6:34 PM, John McPhail wrote:
I ground the coffee much finer today and it helped quite a bit.
I also realized that the office scoop is likely a 1 tablespoon scoop,  
while the scoop I use is a 2 tablespoon scoop. So I used my own scoop  
and guessed that the Bunn carafe holds 25% more than the Nissan  
Thermos I use with the Tehnivorm. So I used 7 of my own scoops ( 14  
tablespoons ) of more finely ground coffee today. I normally use 5  
scoops ( 10 tablespoons ) with the Technivorm.
The flavor was better but not much mouthfeel. Several people  
commented on a chocolately or cocoa aspect of the flavor, actually.
The discovery of the differences in the scoop sizes makes the  
original mystery even more mysterious - how can a a pot of Folgers  
made with only 5 or 6 tablespoons of ground coffee taste so strong?  
Someone mentioned earlier that they suspect that a low-quality store  
coffee like Folgers is treated somehow, and I had originally guessed  
that Robusta was contributing quite a bit to the flavor. Since I have  
no experience with Robusta, it's really just a guess.
I think my next step is to find a manual for the beast and figure out  
how to adjust the temperature, and measure it.
John McPhail
jmcphail
-SNIP-

14) From: Brett Mason
Go to Bunn's website and register your brewer.  They will send you a free
flow restrictor.
I found this helpful before I shipped the whole thing back and gave up.
Brett
On 6/14/06, Thbull  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Regards,
Brett Mason
HomeRoast
   Zassman

15) From: John McPhail
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The flow restrictor is great to know about! I had someone suggest  
using two filters which probably slows the brew but seems like it  
would remove additional flavor, too.
-John
On Jun 14, 2006, at 7:09 AM, Brett Mason wrote:
<Snip>
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The flow =
restrictor is great to know about! I had someone suggest using two =
filters which probably slows the brew but seems like it would remove =
additional flavor, too.
-John <= DIV>On Jun 14, 2006, at 7:09 AM, Brett Mason wrote:
Go to = Bunn's website and register your brewer.  They will send you a free = flow restrictor. I found this helpful before I shipped the = whole thing back and gave up. Brett On 6/14/06, Thbull= <thbull> = wrote: I wonder if a 'flow restricter' would help? I have heard about it = on the list, but not ever used one. I am interested in this since, = our church has several of these, and I would like to roast for them, = but have heard of enough troubles here that I have been quite = hesitant. At church I measured the carafe first, to know how much = coffee to use; I forget now, but it quite a bit more than they = usually used. I also had time to soak the grounds in a cup of hot = water (cowboy coffee style) and then deposit the slurry into the = filter and then add the hater. -Thbull 'having problems with his = Bunns' too On Jun 13, 2006, at 6:34 PM, John McPhail = wrote: I ground the coffee much finer today and it helped quite a = bit. I also realized that the office scoop is likely a 1 = tablespoon scoop, while the scoop I use is a 2 tablespoon scoop. So = I used my own scoop and guessed that the Bunn carafe holds 25% more = than the Nissan Thermos I use with the Tehnivorm. So I used 7 of my = own scoops ( 14 tablespoons ) of more finely ground coffee today. I = normally use 5 scoops ( 10 tablespoons ) with the = Technivorm. The flavor was better but not much mouthfeel. Several = people commented on a chocolately or cocoa aspect of the flavor, = actually. The discovery of the differences in the scoop sizes = makes the original mystery even more mysterious - how can a a pot of = Folgers made with only 5 or 6 tablespoons of ground coffee taste so = strong? Someone mentioned earlier that they suspect that a = low-quality store coffee like Folgers is treated somehow, and I had = originally guessed that Robusta was contributing quite a bit to the = flavor. Since I have no experience with Robusta, it's really just a = guess. I think my next step is to find a manual for the beast and = figure out how to adjust the temperature, and measure it. = John McPhail jmcphail -SNIP-= homeroast mailing = list =http://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroastTo change = your personal list settings (digest options, vacations, unsvbscribes) go = to http://=sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings =
-- = Regards, Brett Mason HomeRoast    = Zassman = --Apple-Mail-3-182005709--

16) From: Brett Mason
The two filters will likely overflow your basket too.  That's a great game
to play...
Brett
On 6/14/06, John McPhail  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Regards,
Brett Mason
HomeRoast
   Zassman

17) From: Wesley Simon
My girlfriend has a Bunn home brewer.  I tried it with the correct amount of
coffee and it overflowed the basket.  I tried using Bunn filters; it was
closer, but the grounds still flowed over the edge of the filter.  I ordered
the flow restrictor shower head and it works.  I believe it takes both the
flow restrictor and the Bunn filter.  The Bunn filters are taller and
thinner (more see-through) than the generic that I had originally tried.
The carafe says "10" on the top notch, so I weigh out 70 grams of coffee.
In just guessing, I'd say that brew time went from around 3 minutes to
closer to 4 or 5.  It's still pretty quick.
I have tried to put good coffee in a large Bunn system also.  The results
were similar: the coffee was weak and nasty!  I believe it's related more to
temperature than anything else.  I haven't taken the temperature because I'm
not going to open it up and adjust it if it's not hot enough.  I simply do
not use the thing anymore...
Wes
On 6/14/06, Brett Mason  wrote:
<Snip>

18) From: Spencer Thomas
I don't have a problem with 2.5oz (70-75g) of coffee in our plumbed-in
office Bunn.  Maybe it's got a bigger basket or something.  Or maybe it's
that I grind at home, put it in a baggie, and brew at work 30-60 minutes
later.  It's brewing into a 2.15 liter thermal carafe, and does not brew all
the way to the top, so I'd say it's likely a "10-cup" (6oz/cup) brewer.
The coffee is coming out pretty good, too.  The Mexican Oaxaca that I brewed
this morning was probably a little less intense than the pot I made at home,
but all the flavors still came through nicely.
On 6/14/06, Wesley Simon  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
=Spencer in Ann Arbor
My Unitarian Jihad http://tinyurl.com/6valr)Name is:
Sibling Dagger of Mild Reason
What are you?http://homepage.mac.com/whump/ujname.html


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