HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Technivorm/Chemex Discovery (20 msgs / 572 lines)
1) From: Jerry Procopio
Ok, now some of you may think I am nuts, but I'll share this anyway. 
I've been using the TV KBTS since December and like it.  I've been happy 
with it from day one with absolutely no complaints.  The one thing that 
has puzzled me is that the spray head is movable and the reservoir cover 
has a slot that would appear to allow the spray head to move laterally 
(a small amount).  This just hasn't made any real sense to me since the 
grounds basket stays stationary.
Now I have had a Chemex CM3 since 1974 and through the years it has been 
my favorite, if not most used coffee maker.  Even though I like the 
Chemex more, drip coffee makers have always won out for daily use. 
Pourover has just always seemed like a pita and not something I want to 
deal with early in the morning.
Ok, so picture this.  I'm cleaning my coffee counter, playing with the 
TV spray head after cleaning it.  The Chemex is less than a foot away. 
Suddenly the light bulb in my empty head comes on.  Yup, you may have 
guessed it, the TechniVorm will pump water into the Chemex (without 
modification).  All one has to do is fill the TV reservoir, put grounds 
into the Chemex filter and place the Chemex next to the TV, swivel the 
spray head so it is over the Chemex and turn the TV on.  Of course the 
TV carafe must be in it's place to keep the button pushed in, but that 
is no problem.
Yes, I got strange looks from Mickie.  She probably said something to 
me, but I was so busy being proud of myself that I didn't hear it.  This 
can't be any crazier than using MsVenus to make hot water for my Cup-O-Soup.
JavaJerry
RK Drum roasting in Chesapeake, VA

2) From: Jason Brooks
I've actually seen a Norelco, I believe, device on eBay that does the same
thing.  Sold in the 70s-80s, IIRC.  Ed filled me in on it.  Cool though -
with the TV, you should be getting much better water temps than the
Norelco one.
Jason
<Snip>
-- 
Jason Brooks
jbrookshttp://members.kinex.net/~jbrooks/blog/blog.html

3) From: Ed Needham
A long time ago, Chemex sold an auto drip machine that sprayed hot water 
into a regular Chemex pot.  Your idea is a good one though.  Technivorm is 
most assuredly better than the rebranded Norelco Chemex used.
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"
ed at homeroaster dot com
(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************

4) From: Gregg Talton
I just placed my Chemex under the Technivorm - GREAT IDEA!  It worked like a
charm.
Gregg T
On 6/20/06, Ed Needham  wrote:
<Snip>

5) From: Kit Anderson
I'm not clear on why you need to do this. Isn't a TV like a hands free 
Chemex anyway?
Kit
Jerry Procopio wrote:
<Snip>

6) From: Ed Needham
Now, throw away the Technivorm and do a manual pour into the Chemex and it 
gets even better (grin).
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"
ed at homeroaster dot com
(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************

7) From: miKe mcKoffee
<Snip>
Some might ask why, let me take a guess at why you say that. You now control
the water temperature, not all coffees are best brewed at 200f!
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
Pacific Northwest Gathering IVhttp://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must">http://home.comcast.net/~mdmint/pnwgIV.htmURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.

8) From: Ed Needham
OK, I'm being a bit persnickety, but the pour makes quite a bit of 
difference.  Precise water temp makes a difference too.
'Maybe' the pour from a Technivorm makes a better pot of coffee, but with my 
Chemex, I like to pre-wet the grounds, wait a minute, then pour fairly fast 
to get the level up to the top and agitate as I pour in circles, squares, 
back and forth and up and down (OK< just seeing if you were paying 
attention>).  Second pour, after the water from the first has subsided about 
two thirds of the way down, is slower and I try not to disturb the grounds 
too much.  I think my system works pretty good, but humans are creatures of 
habit and maybe dribbling water through a sprayhead onto the grounds will do 
a better job.  Having an automatic does have it's advantages.  The TV is 
sure an impressive looking kitchen gadget when guests arrive.
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"
ed at homeroaster dot com
(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************

9) From: miKe mcKoffee
<Snip>
<Snip>
Yes I was paying attention and simply dumbfounded you omitted the figure 8
pour;-)
<Snip>
Agreed, brewding grounds don't like to be disturbed...
<Snip>
Better the TV dribbling water on the grounds than us humans dribbling on the
grounds and this human is glad system still works pretty good and the
dribbling hasn't become automatic!-)
<Snip>
Nah, a TV not nearly so impressive as say a Bricoletta (or Andreja etc), or
Gold Plated Royal Balance Brewer or best of all a CR Peasant Choreador! ;-)
<Snip>
Exacto Mundo!
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
Pacific Northwest Gathering IVhttp://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must">http://home.comcast.net/~mdmint/pnwgIV.htmURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.

10) From: Jerry Procopio
Ummmmm.... because I CAN!
While I agree with Ed's comments about the pourover (even though I don't 
pour in figure eights) being able to go auto with a Chemex is just one 
more option and adventure.
And no.. the TV is NOT like a hands free Chemex.  Chemex filters are 
special and like no other paper filter I have ever used.
Jerry
Kit Anderson wrote:
<Snip>

11) From: Sandy Andina
It also allows you to brew into your TV's carafe and make another pot  
in the Chemex, for when you've got a larger gathering.
On Jun 21, 2006, at 12:34 PM, Jerry Procopio wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com

12) From: Jared Andersson
I have two Chemex brewers.  One has a slightly larger top portion and I
think it makes much better coffee than the one with the smaller top
portion.  When I brew I wet the grounds then fill to the top of the filter
area two times.  Jared
On 6/20/06, Ed Needham  wrote:
<Snip>

13) From: raymanowen
It may sound asinine, but the question about the hands-free Technivorm begs
another question- "Why choose, purchase, eagerly await, receive, store and
put the flames to an inedible foodstuff, then divide, dissolve and consume
the result?"
There must be ways of doing this that taste better than it sounds.
If there are good ways of doing it, one might tinker around and find even
better ways, especially after hitting CCCCC on 64' Diaphone Profunda and 64'
Dulzian ( Very Low notes- 8.11Hz on 35" and 50" of wind- don't do it!).
If you're fond of hands free coffee, dig for your pocketbook with one of
your idle hands. Fourbucks will effortlessly get you some hands free coffee-
with room for cream?.
When I brew in the "Hands free Technivorm", one of my steps is to preheat
the filter basket in boiling water while I grind into the Gold filter. I
toss the basket into the boiling water for a minute, grind the coffee, fish
out the Hot! basket, drop in the Gold cone / coffee, and start the Charade*
of dribbling boiling water (204F in Denver town) from the teakettle with the
basket valve closed for two minutes. Meanwhile I place the basket in the
brewer's ring stand, and stir down the Bloom! with a plastic spoon. The
aroma therapy session is wild.
If I shove the arm to the rear of the slot in the reservoir lid, I find it's
just right to wash down the grounds on the inside of the cone as I turn it.
If someone tells you the Technivorm or anything about it is hands free, be
afraid. They're probably Carnival Pickpockets. It's a ruse to distract your
attention. If your hands are free with a Technivorm, something is wrong.
Better keep them in your pockets or you'll lose.
While the Technivorm puts out 200 degree water, it can't brew at 200
degrees. The grounds and basket are a much cooler heat sink. Hence, my hands
are definitely not idle when I brew coffee.
*Charade- attempt to match the cuppers' experience on a 1.5 L scale, uses
preheated airpot.
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
Keep all your coffee stuff locked up- Hands Free...
On 6/20/06, Kit Anderson  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
"When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the
Wichita WurliTzer

14) From: Kit Anderson
Sorry I asked. My mistake.
Kit
raymanowen wrote:
<Snip>

15) From: David Schooley
--Apple-Mail-7-841728435
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I wonder if the Denver altitude plus the Gold cone is making it  
necessary for you to do this. Your post made me curious, so I brewed  
a batch (1L) of Matadakad just now and stuck a thermocouple into the  
slurry about half way through the brew cycle. OK, I was going to make  
the coffee anyway and your post reminded me to measure the  
temperature. Anyway, the temperature of the slurry came out to  
201-202 degrees using a Filtropa brown filter. Next time I will start  
the measurements at the beginning. I also have a SwissGold filter, so  
I will repeat the experiment to see if the metal makes a difference.  
I did not remove the cover from the filter holder except for a few  
seconds now and then to fiddle with the thermocouple.
My SwissGold filter arrived last Friday. The extra bloom makes the  
gold filter much more difficult to manage. I have to move the carafe  
to stop the water flow and then stir the grounds to knock down the  
bloom. If the water in the basket cools down too much during all of  
this, then bringing it back up to the proper temperature after  
restarting the flow might be impossible.
The Matadakad is really good. 1/2 lb. came in a Sweet Maria's  
sampler. I did the whole half pound Monday evening in the iRoast. The  
first 1/4 lb. was a bit light (City+++) and I did a better job with  
the rest. A 50/50 mix yesterday morning with the SwissGold tasted a  
little off. After 48 hours with the paper filter (i.e., perhaps a  
higher brew temperature), it is much better.
On Jun 21, 2006, at 5:22 PM, raymanowen wrote:
<Snip>
--Apple-Mail-7-841728435
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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I wonder if the Denver =
altitude plus the Gold cone is making it necessary for you to do this. =
Your post made me curious, so I brewed a batch (1L) of Matadakad just =
now and stuck a thermocouple into the slurry about half way through the =
brew cycle. OK, I was going to make the coffee anyway and your post =
reminded me to measure the temperature. Anyway, the temperature of the =
slurry came out to 201-202 degrees using a Filtropa brown filter. Next =
time I will start the measurements at the beginning. I also have a =
SwissGold filter, so I will repeat the experiment to see if the metal =
makes a difference. I did not remove the cover from the filter holder =
except for a few seconds now and then to fiddle with the =
thermocouple. 
My SwissGold filter arrived = last Friday. The extra bloom makes the gold filter much more difficult = to manage. I have to move the carafe to stop the water flow and then = stir the grounds to knock down the bloom. If the water in the basket = cools down too much during all of this, then bringing it back up to the = proper temperature after restarting the flow might be = impossible. 
The Matadakad is really = good. 1/2 lb. came in a Sweet Maria's sampler. I did the whole half = pound Monday evening in the iRoast. The first 1/4 lb. was a bit light = (City+++) and I did a better job with the rest. A 50/50 mix yesterday = morning with the SwissGold tasted a little off. After 48 hours with the = paper filter (i.e., perhaps a higher brew temperature), it is much = better.  On Jun 21, 2006, at 5:22 PM, raymanowen = wrote:
It may sound asinine, but the question about the = hands-free Technivorm begs another question- "Why choose, purchase, = eagerly await, receive, store and put the flames to an inedible = foodstuff, then divide, dissolve and consume the result?" There = must be ways of doing this that taste better than it sounds. If there = are good ways of doing it, one might tinker around and find even better = ways, especially after hitting CCCCC on 64' Diaphone Profunda and 64' = Dulzian ( Very Low notes- 8.11Hz on 35" and 50" of wind- don't do = it!). If you're fond of hands free coffee, dig for your = pocketbook with one of your idle hands. Fourbucks will effortlessly get = you some hands free coffee- with room for cream?. When I brew in = the "Hands free Technivorm", one of my steps is to preheat the filter = basket in boiling water while I grind into the Gold filter. I toss the = basket into the boiling water for a minute, grind the coffee, fish out = the Hot! basket, drop in the Gold cone / coffee, and start the Charade* = of dribbling boiling water (204F in Denver town) from the teakettle with = the basket valve closed for two minutes. Meanwhile I place the basket in = the brewer's ring stand, and stir down the Bloom! with a plastic spoon. = The aroma therapy session is wild. If I shove the arm to the = rear of the slot in the reservoir lid, I find it's just right to wash = down the grounds on the inside of the cone as I turn it. If = someone tells you the Technivorm or anything about it is hands free, be = afraid. They're probably Carnival Pickpockets. It's a ruse to distract = your attention. If your hands are free with a Technivorm, something is = wrong. Better keep them in your pockets or you'll lose. While = the Technivorm puts out 200 degree water, it can't brew at 200 degrees. The grounds and = basket are a much cooler heat sink. Hence, my hands are definitely not = idle when I brew coffee. *Charade- attempt to match the cuppers' = experience on a 1.5 L scale, uses preheated airpot. Cheers -RayO, = aka Opa! Keep all your coffee stuff locked up- Hands = Free... On 6/20/06, Kit Anderson <kit> = wrote: I'm not clear on why you need to do this. Isn't a TV like a hands = free Chemex anyway? Kit Jerry Procopio wrote: > = Ok, now some of you may think I am nuts, but I'll share this = anyway. > I've been using the TV KBTS since December and like = it.  I've been > happy with it from day one with absolutely = no complaints.  The one > thing that has puzzled me is that = the spray head is movable and the > reservoir cover has a slot = that would appear to allow the spray head > to move laterally (a = small amount).  This just hasn't made any real > sense to me = since the grounds basket stays stationary. > > Now I have = had a Chemex CM3 since 1974 and through the years it has > been = my favorite, if not most used coffee maker.  Even though I = like > the Chemex more, drip coffee makers have always won out for = daily use. > Pourover has just always seemed like a pita and not = something I want > to deal with early in the = morning. > > Ok, so picture this.  I'm cleaning my = coffee counter, playing with the > TV spray head after cleaning = it.  The Chemex is less than a foot away. > Suddenly the light = bulb in my empty head comes on.  Yup, you may have > guessed = it, the TechniVorm will pump water into the Chemex (without > = modification).  All one has to do is fill the TV reservoir, = put > grounds into the Chemex filter and place the Chemex next to = the TV, > swivel the spray head so it is over the Chemex and turn = the TV on.  Of > course the TV carafe must be in it's place to = keep the button pushed > in, but that is no = problem. > > Yes, I got strange looks from Mickie.  She = probably said something to > me, but I was so busy being proud of = myself that I didn't hear it. > This can't be any crazier than = using MsVenus to make hot water for my > = Cup-O-Soup. > > JavaJerry > RK Drum roasting in = Chesapeake, VA > > = > homeroast = mailing list > http://li=sts.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast > To change = your personal list settings (digest options, vacations, > = unsvbscribes) go to > http://=sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings = > >= _ homeroast mailing list http://li=sts.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast To change your = personal list settings (digest options, vacations, unsvbscribes) go to = http://=sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings =
-- "When the theme = hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the Wichita = WurliTzer = --Apple-Mail-7-841728435--

16) From: raymanowen
David, I'm going to recheck the temperatures of the coffee/ water in the TV
basket. It certainly would not be the first measurement error I've made, but
I just can't get "...the temperature of the slurry [to come] out to 201-202
degrees..."
Boiling water reads 204F and 95C with two different T/C meters, and the
Technivorm dispenses exactly 200 degree F water from the arm. The slurry
read 187 - 191 degrees, at the hottest, with several repetitions. Of course,
it's easy to repeat an erroneous technique.
Skipping all the details, my Celtic Critic wife despised coffee more and
more with every sip of "Floor coffee" in a hospital ICU / CCU. Her attitude
changed Only on a few shots from the Capresso, and the TV has been
successful regularly after I started trying to emulate the cuppers'
technique on a 1L(+) scale.
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
-- 
"When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the Mighty
Wichita WurliTzer- 1976

17) From: David Schooley
Your numbers may make sense for Denver. Just now I stuck the  
thermocouple into the arm of my TV and ran a liter of water. The  
temperature bounced around a lot at first because the TV sends slugs  
of water through the pipe and much of the time you are reading air or  
metal temperature and not water. This is where a fast meter helps.  
The temperature initially leveled out at around 207 or 208 degrees,  
but it got as high as 210. Water boils here (suburban Chicago, 685  
ft) at 210.9 degrees at this evening's barometric pressure. From what  
I have seen while watching the TV in action, the water is near  
boiling before it goes to the coffee.
I do not know how much heat is lost as those first few slugs go  
through the pipe, but it might be worth running a batch of water  
through the TV to heat the pipe before making the coffee if you are  
not doing that already.
On Jun 22, 2006, at 1:07 AM, raymanowen wrote:
<Snip>

18) From: David Liguori
Jerry,
I've never seen a Technivorm in person, but how hard would it be to remove the bracket that holds the filter cone and just use it as a dedicated Chemex auto-brew system?  Is it just held on from the inside with a couple of screws?

19) From: Jerry Procopio
David,
Though that might be possible, I don't really want to make that kind of 
mod to the TV - I like it as it is.  I just thought that it was kind of 
neat that I oculd use it to pump 200° water into the Chemex and turn a 
pourover pot into a drip pot.  It's not likely that I will do it often. 
  Usually when I am in the mood to use the Chemex, I have the time (and 
sometimes even patience) to do it "right".  But it's nice to have options.
Jerry
David Liguori wrote:
<Snip>

20) From: Steve Hay
On 6/22/06, raymanowen  wrote:
<Snip>
I could be wrong here, but if the TV is essentially using boiling water as
the driving head for flow through the machine, then you can do a direct
subtraction of differences in boiling temperatures to get a pretty good
estimate of the differences between the regions.
Your boiling temp is reported as 204F, 200F from the TV arm, and 187F-191F
in the slurry bed.
This means that at nominal conditions, boiling is 212F, 208F from the arm,
and 195F-199F in the slurry bed.
This is pretty consistent with user's reports of the TV at nominal pressure
conditions.  The TV brews at near 200F.
Further, it seems the only way to really mitigate pressure effects
automatically would be to have an additional heater in the head to correct
for differences in boiling temperature.  This would have to have a sensor in
it so it would know how much energy to put back in.  It also could be dicey
in terms of risk of reboiling in the head.  The Presto has such a heater.  I
wonder how it fares at high elevations?
-- 
Steven Hay
hay.steve -AT- gmail.com
Barry Paradox: Consider k to be the greatest element of the set of natural
numbers whose description require maximum of 50 words: "(k+1) is a natural
number which requires more than 50 words to describe it."


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