HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Resting Coffee (15 msgs / 759 lines)
1) From: Gerald and Beth Newsom
Though I haven't posted in several weeks, I have been keeping up with
everyone else's posts.  I have a couple of questions that previous letters
made me wonder about.  Mike wrote that he thought a four-day rest was
generally when a newly roasted coffee was at its' best.  Since Mike
(McKoffee) drinks most of his coffee from his espresso machine (I hope I'm
right about that), I wondered if that length of rest applied only to coffee
roasted for espresso or for other brewing methods as well?
I also wondered if anyone had ever done any blind cuppings of a particular
bean roasted to the same level, but rested for different periods of time?
Gerald

2) From: Jared Andersson
"I also wondered if anyone had ever done any blind cuppings of a particular
bean roasted to the same level, but rested for different periods of time?"
I do this every single week at work.  I roast about a weeks worth of a
single coffee and
start serving it to my coworkers from a rest of one day till it is gone
about seven
days later.  Most weeks at about 3 to 5 days out one or more coworkers will
ask what the
coffee was that day because they "really liked that one".   I purposely keep
them in the dark
most of the time and ask questions about the quality of the cup.  I get mini
experiment data
every week and they get good coffee.  I continue to find it interesting how
similar many of there
descriptions of the coffee are to what Tom writes.  I still have not told
most of them about the ISH
I served up a few years ago.  Jared
On 6/28/06, Gerald and Beth Newsom  wrote:
<Snip>

3) From: Laura Micucci
Hello All,
   
  Please indulge a newbie with these questions.  What are the advantages of resting coffee for more than the 4-24 hours that I usually see recommended? What happens during this time to make the coffee better? Won't it start to be stale?  Is this just for espresso?  How do you store the beans during this rest time?  Thanks for your help!
                 Laura           Make the world a better place by drinking coffee.
  www.freshroastedforyou.com
   

4) From: Ken Mary
This has been discussed quite extensively, and there is not much new to say
about the matter.
Basically there are both physical and chemical reactions happening all the
time, even in refrigerated or frozen beans, although much slower when cold.
There is actually a sulfur containing compound produced by staling that in
low amounts improves the flavor, but in larger amounts gives a stale or
skunky flavor.
However, I have recently been experiencing something that was mentioned only
briefly many years ago. Your 4-24 hour rest period for some coffees (or
roast profiles) is actually a time when the cup quality declines. Straight
from the roaster is fine and somewhere around 36 hours rest is fine. But
there is something odd about that 4-24 hour period.
The peak rest for most coffees is 48 hours, with some continuing to improve
up to 96 hours.
Storage is a personal preference. I leave my coffee exposed to air for 48
hours then close the jars.
--
----------
<Snip>
<Snip>

5) From: Les
Ken,
I have not had the 4-24 hour experience with all coffees.  I personally like
a number of coffees rested 4-24 hours.  However, in general 3 days to 5 days
of rest is the best.  Yesterday I had the Guatemala FTO Quiche - Maya Ixil
at five days rest and there was a flavor explosion. I am leaning toward
Mike's suggestion that maybe 5 days is the best rest time on most coffees.
In my experience they start going down hill at day 11.  The most dramatic
bean to be is the Pacamara bean at day 3.  It goes from an average brew to a
complex outstanding cup of coffee in 24 hours.
Les
On 11/14/06, Ken Mary  wrote:
<Snip>

6) From: Sergio Kusevitzky
My experience shows that the peak and the down time are also related to the=
 roasting technique.
Coffee roasted in the Hearthware or the Air Popper (=
fast roast) develop faster but they don't last more than 7-8 days. (some ti=
me even less)
Coffee roasted in the Alpenrost can last 10-12 days
Coffe=
e roasted in the Stove Popper requires at least 3 days to develop and can s=
till be ok 15-18 days.
Sergio
----- Original Message ----
Fr=
om: Les 
To: homeroast
Sen=
t: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 7:28:29 PM
Subject: Re: +resting coffee
=
Ken,
I have not had the 4-24 hour experience with all coffees.  I p=
ersonally like a number of coffees rested 4-24 hours.  However, in general =
3 days to 5 days of rest is the best.  Yesterday I had the Guatemala FTO Qu=
iche - Maya Ixil at five days rest and there was a flavor explosion. I am l=
eaning toward Mike's suggestion that maybe 5 days is the best rest time on =
most coffees.  In my experience they start going down hill at day 11.  The =
most dramatic bean to be is the Pacamara bean at day 3.  It goes from an av=
erage brew to a complex outstanding cup of coffee in 24 hours. 
Les
=
 
On 11/14/06, Ken Mary  wrote: 
This has been discusse=
d quite extensively, and there is not much new to say
about the matter.=
Basically there are both physical and chemical reactions happening al=
l the 
time, even in refrigerated or frozen beans, although much slower w=
hen cold.
There is actually a sulfur containing compound produced by stal=
ing that in
low amounts improves the flavor, but in larger amounts gives =
a stale or 
skunky flavor.
However, I have recently been experiencin=
g something that was mentioned only
briefly many years ago. Your 4-24 hou=
r rest period for some coffees (or
roast profiles) is actually a time whe=
n the cup quality declines. Straight 
from the roaster is fine and somewh=
ere around 36 hours rest is fine. But
there is something odd about that 4=
-24 hour period.
The peak rest for most coffees is 48 hours, with some=
 continuing to improve
up to 96 hours. 
Storage is a personal prefer=
ence. I leave my coffee exposed to air for 48
hours then close the jars.=
--
----------
>From: Laura Micucci =
>To: homeroast
>Subject: +resting coffee
>Date=
: Mon, Nov 13, 2006, 10:53 PM
>
> Hello All,
>
> 
>
> Please=
 indulge a newbie with these questions.  What are the advantages of
> res=
ting coffee for more than the 4-24 hours that I usually see recommended?
=
<Snip>
o 
> be stale?  Is this just for espresso?  How do you store the beans du=
ring
> this rest time?  Thanks for your help!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>=
>
>
>
>  Laura 
>
>
>
> Make the world a better place by d=
rinking coffee.
>
> www.freshroastedforyou.com <http://www.freshroaste=dforyou.com/>
>
>
h=
omeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homer=oast 
To change your personal list settings (digest options, vacations, u=
nsvbscribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsetting=s

7) From: Jon Rosen
--Apple-Mail-6-540901628
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset-ASCII;
	delsp=yes;
	format=flowed
This is getting complicated. I'm beginning to think I need a spectral  
gas chromatograph in my kitchen to know when it's okay to drink my  
freshly roasted coffee. In the meantime, I may pipe some light jazz  
into the storage container so my coffee will be relaxed and well- 
rested when I'm ready to grind it.
I'm not making light of this, but does SM now need to include resting  
instructions as well as roasting instructions?
Jon
On Nov 14, 2006, at 1:21 PM, Sergio Kusevitzky wrote:
<Snip>
--Apple-Mail-6-540901628
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charsetO-8859-1
This is getting complicated. I'm =
beginning to think I need a spectral gas chromatograph in my kitchen to =
know when it's okay to drink my freshly roasted coffee. In the meantime, =
I may pipe some light jazz into the storage container so my coffee will =
be relaxed and well-rested when I'm ready to grind it.
I'm not making light of = this, but does SM now need to include resting instructions as well as = roasting instructions?
Jon O= n Nov 14, 2006, at 1:21 PM, Sergio Kusevitzky wrote:
My experience shows that the peak and the down time = are also related to the roasting technique.Coffee roasted in the Hearthware or the Air Popper = (fast roast) develop faster but they don't last more than 7-8 days. = (some time even less)Coffee roasted = in the Alpenrost can last 10-12 daysCoffee roasted = in the Stove Popper requires at least 3 days to develop and can still be = ok 15-18 days. Sergio

----- Original Message = ----
From: Les <les.albjerg>=
To: homeroast= s.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 7:28:29 = PM
Subject: Re: +resting coffee

Ken,I have not had = the 4-24 hour experience with all coffees.  I personally like a number = of coffees rested 4-24 hours.  However, in general 3 days to 5 days of = rest is the best.  Yesterday I had theGuatemala FTO = Quiche - Maya Ixil at five days rest and there was a flavor explosion. I= am leaning toward Mike's suggestion that maybe 5 days is the best rest = time on most coffees.  In my experience they start going down hill at = day 11.  The most dramatic bean to be is the Pacamara bean at day 3.  = It goes from an average brew to a complex outstanding cup of coffee in = 24 hours.Les

On 11/14/06, = Ken Mary <kdmary> = wrote:This has been discussed quite = extensively, and there is not much new to say
about the matter.

Basically = there are both physical and chemical reactions happening all the =
time, even in refrigerated or frozen beans, = although much slower when cold.
There is = actually a sulfur containing compound produced by staling that = in
low amounts improves the flavor, but in larger = amounts gives a stale or
skunky = flavor.

However, I have recently been experiencing = something that was mentioned only
briefly many = years ago. Your 4-24 hour rest period for some coffees (or
roast profiles) is actually a time when the cup = quality declines. Straight
from the = roaster is fine and somewhere around 36 hours rest is fine. = But
there is something odd about that 4-24 hour = period.

The peak rest for most coffees is 48 hours, = with some continuing to improve
up to 96 = hours.

Storage is a personal preference. I leave my = coffee exposed to air for 48
hours then = close the jars.
--


----------
>From: Laura Micucci <lauramicucci = >
>To: = >Subject: = +resting coffee
>Date: Mon, Nov 13, 2006, 10:53 = PM
>

> Hello All,
>
>
>
> Please indulge a newbie with these = questions.  What are the advantages of
> resting = coffee for more than the 4-24 hours that I usually see = recommended?
> What happens during this time to make the = coffee better? Won't it start to
> be = stale?  Is this just for espresso?  How do you store the beans = during
> this rest time?  Thanks for your = help!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  Laura =
>
>
>
> Make the world a better place = by drinking coffee.
>
>
< =>
>
homeroast mailing list
To change your personal list settings (digest =">http://www.freshroastedforyou.com/>style="3D"font-family:" times="times" new="new" roman;="font-size:" 16px;="16px;" "=""">>
>
homeroast mailing list
To change your personal list settings (digest = options, vacations, unsvbscribes) go to



= --Apple-Mail-6-540901628--

8) From: Eddie Dove
Laura,
Resting coffee is not just for espresso, but it is vitally important for
that method of extraction; a coffee not rested long enough, can create
somewhat of a baking soda affect in an espresso, but I have never experience
that in brewed coffee.  Most coffees will make a good cup of coffee right
after they have been roasted; most of us enjoy chomping on some of the
freshly roasted beans.
Once coffee has been roasted, the chemical reactions that were initiated
with the application of heat continue, oils migrate internally (to the bean)
and carbon dioxide (CO2) is released.  If stored properly, like in an
appropriately sized container with a one-way degassing valve to prevent
pressure from building up (coffee bags), the CO2 will fend off the negative
affects of oxygen that will contribute to the staling of the coffee as well
as light and moisture.  It is for this reason that it is recommended to
store coffee in an opaque, air-tight container, in a cool, dry place.  I
store my roasted coffee at room temperature (~72 F), in a "Jelly Cabinet",
in wide-mouth quart-sized mason jars and as the coffee is consumed, I move
it to wide-mouth pint-sized mason jars.  I vacuum seal them with a Food
Saver.  This is an economical and effective way for me to store my roasted
coffee.  I also prefer glass, rather than plastic, because plastic tends to
pickup and retain the smells and oils of the coffees and can be quite
difficult to remove, if not impossible.  After all of the care and work that
goes into roasting my own coffee, I don't want it "tainted" by another.
Opinions vary on how long coffee can be called fresh and while I roast
enough coffee to last about a week, I have found coffee in my "Coffee
Cabinet" that was very good at 21 days old; it was vacuum sealed.
In another email related to resting coffee, miKe mcKoffee wrote, "Best thing
you can do is find out for yourself trying coffees every 24 hours for at
least 7 days."  Here is a case in point as to why one should take that
route.  I had recently purchased a pound of the Australia Mountain Top XF
"Bin 35" for $11.20.  This is the most expensive coffee I have purchased to
date, but it is by no means near the top priced / prized coffees; I bought
it because it was described as a "sweet cup" and thought that my wife would
truly enjoy it.  It had been here for a while because I was being overly
cautious about roasting it, for fear that I would ruin it; I have gotten
over this.  Saturday evening I roasted the coffee.  Sunday evening, 24 hours
after roasting, I brewed it and tried it; cardboard.  Monday evening, 48
hours after roasting, I brewed it and tried it; cardboard.  Today, Tuesday
evening, 72 hours after roasting, I brewed it and tried it; delicious,
flavorful, well-rounded, sweet cup!  I can't wait until tomorrow!  I have
also had coffee though that I thought was best at 12 hours rest and died
thereafter; they were still good, but not what I thoroughly enjoyed at 12
hours rest.  I have had other coffees that really hit their stride and were
brilliant at 5 days rest.
I hope this is helpful and your questions have been answered.  If not, just
let us know!
Respectfully,
Eddie
On 11/13/06, Laura Micucci  wrote:
<Snip>

9) From: Jeff Oien
I find that many dry processed beans don't need any rest,
anything from Harar to dry processed Brazils. But centrals
and pulped naturals from Brazil that are bright need three
days in order for the flavors to integrate. Before that
the acidity and brightness stands out too much. Anybody
else agree?
An interesting example is Brazil Dry Process CoE #2. Tastes
great on one day rest and then just changes a little by
day three. Brazil Aprocam, a bright Brazil, is out of balance
until day three for me.
I always take Mike's advice and taste each day for a new bean.
Then later on I know if I would prefer to wait until day two
or three to start drinking.
JeffO

10) From: Larry English
Jon wrote: I'm not making light of this, but does SM now need to include
resting instructions as well as roasting instructions?
Well, Tom does that - here's a quote from the Brazil section of the greens
pages:
*"My personal preference is that Brazils for espresso are rested quite a
while after roasting - in fact I had a straight pulped natural I roasted to
a light Vienna for espresso, and I kept testing the cup because 2 days after
roasting it was too lively, nippy - almost like a baking soda effect on your
tongue. After 18 days it became one of the deepest, heavy bodied espresso I
ever had! I am not saying coffee should be rested that long after roasting
(especially other methods like French Press, Drip etc, which fade after as
little as 7 days!), but if you don't have a good initial experience with a
Brazil espresso, don't toss it - try it after a week, or even two." *
That's just one example - many exist within individual reviews as well.  But
notice the "as little as 7 days" remark, suggesting that 7 days or more is
reasonable for brewed coffee.  But it always comes down to this - if you
like it, it's good.  Or, "I don't know much about (resting) but I know what
I like."
Larry

11) From: David Schooley
One of the joys of home roasting is being able to try the coffee  
within hours of roasting it.
I usually roast in the evenings and brew in the mornings. For me, the  
typical time from roast to first brew is 8-36 hours. I agree with the  
comment about dry-processed beans, and I have also had good luck with  
wet-processed Africans on short rest. Sumatras get a full 36 hours  
because that helps develop body. I roasted a Java Private Estate last  
night and drank part of it this morning. It probably needed another  
24 hours. It tasted fine but it was missing something. I give  
centrals 24-36 hours before the first brew. If something is too  
bright, I first try to adjust the next roast rather than plan to let  
the coffee sit for four or five days.
I cannot stand green peas. If somebody asked me about the best way to  
eat them, I would say to swallow them whole, because that is the only  
way I can get them down. Most people can at least tolerate them, and  
some people like them. Anybody who followed my advice without at  
least trying peas the normal way could be missing out. Coffee is the  
same way. If you roast a new coffee and then let it sit four or five  
days because somebody said it was better that way, then you will  
never know what you are missing, especially when you throw in the  
additional variables of roasting method, profile, degree of roast,  
storage method, etc...
My roasts go from the iRoast to a colander, where they sit long  
enough to come to room temperature. Once cool, they go into canning  
jars. The two extremes for bean storage are probably vacuum sealing  
on one end and leaving them exposed to air on the other. Hand- 
tightened canning jars are somewhere in between. I have no idea how  
to relate two days in a canning jar to two days vacuum packed or two  
days exposed to air. I suppose it depends on how much of the benefits  
from resting come from oxidation vs. some other strange chemical  
process.
On Nov 14, 2006, at 7:31 PM, Jeff Oien wrote:
<Snip>

12) From: Ken Mary
<Snip>
I should have emphasized that the 4-24 hour "off period" is an occasional
event, but seems to be happening to me more often now. With nearly all of my
coffees, the peak is 2 days.
<Snip>
The "flavor explosions" that I see always occur between 2 and 3 days, and
are never pronounced, just a sudden slight increase in flavor. There seems
to be a chocolate peak between days 3 and 4.
My shelf life tests are showing no flavor decline out to day 15. However, I
have done only a handful of coffees. I am now holding a few extra samples
for brewing on days 20 and 25. I am hoping that there is a correlation
between shelf life and roast profile in my drum roaster. Back in my popper
roasting days, nearly all my coffees were distinctly stale beyond 5 days.
This agrees with Sergio concerning roast method.
--

13) From: Claus Thøgersen
Hi,
I have never really done anything to test this out seriously. In genral I 
would say  that homeroasted in my Hottop is good for 8 to 10 days it rarely 
survives that long anyway. I mostly roast close to or into second crack, I 
cannot seemm to like city or even city plus roasts they tend to be to bitter 
and green or too sour for my taste, something I find strange because I very 
much like bitter beer, anyway the few times I roast light it seems as if 
longer resting is more necessary.
Finally there are the aged coffees I try always to have in my stash and here 
3 days rest  is a must even though I roast 15 to 25 seconds into second 
crack.
Claus Thøgersen
----- Oprindelig meddelelse ----- 
Fra: "Ken Mary" 
Til: 
Sendt: 15. november 2006 13:36
Emne: Re: +resting coffee
<Snip>

14) From: Eddie Dove
Laura,
Resting coffee is not just for espresso, but it is vitally important for
that method of extraction; a coffee not rested long enough, can create
somewhat of a baking soda affect in an espresso, but I have never experience
that in brewed coffee.  Most coffees will make a good cup of coffee right
after they have been roasted; most of us enjoy chomping on some of the
freshly roasted beans.
Once coffee has been roasted, the chemical reactions that were initiated
with the application of heat continue, oils migrate internally (to the bean)
and carbon dioxide (CO2) is released.  If stored properly, like in an
appropriately sized container with a one-way degassing valve to prevent
pressure from building up (coffee bags), the CO2 will fend off the negative
affects of oxygen that will contribute to the staling of the coffee as well
as light and moisture.  It is for this reason that it is recommended to
store coffee in an opaque, air-tight container, in a cool, dry place.  I
store my roasted coffee at room temperature (~72 F), in a "Jelly Cabinet",
in wide-mouth quart-sized mason jars and as the coffee is consumed, I move
it to wide-mouth pint-sized mason jars.  I vacuum seal them with a Food
Saver.  This is an economical and effective way for me to store my roasted
coffee.  I also prefer glass, rather than plastic, because plastic tends to
pickup and retain the smells and oils of the coffees and can be quite
difficult to remove, if not impossible.  After all of the care and work that
goes into roasting my own coffee, I don't want it "tainted" by another.
Opinions vary on how long coffee can be called fresh and while I roast
enough coffee to last about a week, I have found coffee in my "Coffee
Cabinet" that was very good at 21 days old; it was vacuum sealed.
In another email related to resting coffee, miKe mcKoffee wrote, "Best thing
you can do is find out for yourself trying coffees every 24 hours for at
least 7 days."  Here is a case in point as to why one should take that
route.  I had recently purchased a pound of the Australia Mountain Top XF
"Bin 35" for $11.20.  This is the most expensive coffee I have purchased to
date, but it is by no means near the top priced / prized coffees; I bought
it because it was described as a "sweet cup" and thought that my wife would
truly enjoy it.  It had been here for a while because I was being overly
cautious about roasting it, for fear that I would ruin it; I have gotten
over this.  Saturday evening I roasted the coffee.  Sunday evening, 24 hours
after roasting, I brewed it and tried it; cardboard.  Monday evening, 48
hours after roasting, I brewed it and tried it; cardboard.  Today, Tuesday
evening, 72 hours after roasting, I brewed it and tried it; delicious,
flavorful, well-rounded, sweet cup!  I can't wait until tomorrow!  I have
also had coffee though that I thought was best at 12 hours rest and died
thereafter; they were still good, but not what I thoroughly enjoyed at 12
hours rest.  I have had other coffees that really hit their stride and were
brilliant at 5 days rest.
I hope this is helpful and your questions have been answered.  If not, just
let us know!
Respectfully,
Eddie
On 11/13/06, Laura Micucci  wrote:
<Snip>

15) From: Laura Micucci
Thanks Eddie and to everyone for their great answers!  I feel like I understand this process a lot better now.  Now to experiment...
Eddie Dove  wrote:  Laura,
Resting coffee is not just for espresso, but it is vitally important for that method of extraction; a coffee not rested long enough, can create somewhat of a baking soda affect in an espresso, but I have never experience that in brewed coffee.  Most coffees will make a good cup of coffee right after they have been roasted; most of us enjoy chomping on some of the freshly roasted beans. 
Once coffee has been roasted, the chemical reactions that were initiated with the application of heat continue, oils migrate internally (to the bean) and carbon dioxide (CO2) is released.  If stored properly, like in an appropriately sized container with a one-way degassing valve to prevent pressure from building up (coffee bags), the CO2 will fend off the negative affects of oxygen that will contribute to the staling of the coffee as well as light and moisture.  It is for this reason that it is recommended to store coffee in an opaque, air-tight container, in a cool, dry place.  I store my roasted coffee at room temperature (~72 F), in a "Jelly Cabinet", in wide-mouth quart-sized mason jars and as the coffee is consumed, I move it to wide-mouth pint-sized mason jars.  I vacuum seal them with a Food Saver.  This is an economical and effective way for me to store my roasted coffee.  I also prefer glass, rather than plastic, because plastic tends to pickup and retain the
 smells and oils of the coffees and can be quite difficult to remove, if not impossible.  After all of the care and work that goes into roasting my own coffee, I don't want it "tainted" by another.  Opinions vary on how long coffee can be called fresh and while I roast enough coffee to last about a week, I have found coffee in my "Coffee Cabinet" that was very good at 21 days old; it was vacuum sealed. 
In another email related to resting coffee, miKe mcKoffee wrote, "Best thing you can do is find out for yourself trying coffees every 24 hours for at least 7 days."  Here is a case in point as to why one should take that route.  I had recently purchased a pound of the Australia Mountain Top XF "Bin 35" for $11.20.  This is the most expensive coffee I have purchased to date, but it is by no means near the top priced / prized coffees; I bought it because it was described as a "sweet cup" and thought that my wife would truly enjoy it.  It had been here for a while because I was being overly cautious about roasting it, for fear that I would ruin it; I have gotten over this.  Saturday evening I roasted the coffee.  Sunday evening, 24 hours after roasting, I brewed it and tried it; cardboard.  Monday evening, 48 hours after roasting, I brewed it and tried it; cardboard.  Today, Tuesday evening, 72 hours after roasting, I brewed it and tried it; delicious, flavorful, well-rounded,
 sweet cup!  I can't wait until tomorrow!  I have also had coffee though that I thought was best at 12 hours rest and died thereafter; they were still good, but not what I thoroughly enjoyed at 12 hours rest.  I have had other coffees that really hit their stride and were brilliant at 5 days rest. 
I hope this is helpful and your questions have been answered.  If not, just let us know!
Respectfully,
Eddie
  On 11/13/06, Laura Micucci  wrote:    Hello All,
   
  Please indulge a newbie with these questions.  What are the advantages of resting coffee for more than the 4-24 hours that I usually see recommended? What happens during this time to make the coffee better? Won't it start to be stale?  Is this just for espresso?  How do you store the beans during this rest time?  Thanks for your help! 
Laura


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