HomeRoast Digest


Topic: sugar, flour and substitutes? (7 msgs / 547 lines)
1) From: Sandy Andina
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Already know the dangers of sugar substitutes: aspartame is not
dangerous unless you have PKU, then it's deadly; and it will degrade
and taste awful if stale or heated.  No danger with sucralose
(Splenda), except that it tastes "flabby." Sugar alcohols (maltitol,
mannitol, sorbitol) make marvelous laxatives but lousy sweeteners.
Saccharine (the pink stuff) tastes terrible although beloved by the
elderly. Contrary to prior belief, no danger from cyclamate (Sucaryl,
only available outside the US).  Researched this extensively, and am
not one of those people who believes everything "natural" is safe
(nightshade? curare? aflatoxins?) and that everything that comes out
of a lab (including medicines) is "poison."  Anything taken to excess
is unwise, but artificial sweeteners used appropriately and sparingly
are not a problem (other than an obvious esthetic one--they all taste
inferior to cane or beet sugar or honey).  I prefer seltzer
(unsweetened) to diet soda anyway. And I never sweeten my coffee or
drink flavored lattes. (My husband is a cardiologist, who can eat
anything he wants yet has no sweet tooth, and he concurs).
As to vitamins, I prefer to take them the old-fashioned way wherever
possible:  via the foods into which Mother Nature placed them. I do
take a multi, but it's a capsule.  I always eat a good breakfast
within an hour of arising--I must or I will get peckish before lunch
and eat junk.
I meant it when I said "your mileage may vary." I used to do quite
well on Weight Watchers and calorie-counting/exercise, and then I hit
perimenopause.  Suddenly I became insulin resistant, my blood pressure
crept up and so did my LDLs (fortunately, my HDLs have always been
freakishly high so statins are contraindicated), and to my horror my
washboard abs/pear-shape gave way to a definite apple- shaped
physique.  Not just my cardiologist husband but EVERY M.D. I've seen
since then has enthusiastically recommended a low-glycemic diet (first
the Carb Addicts' Lifespan Plan, then Atkins and South Beach and now
the Glycemic Index Diet).  The latter is what I'm gravitating toward,
but as a maintenance plan. Glycemic "load," rather than the bare
"index," is now thought to be the key--hence the theoretical
permissibility of small amounts of white flour in things like
sourdough bread or otherwise high-fiber-added food, or small amounts
of very dark chocolate containing sugar--the chocolate is more
beneficial than the tiny amount of sugar is harmful. Ditto stuff like
Basmati (but not jasmine or brown!) rice and converted durum pastas.
They are considered to have a low glycemic load when consumed in the
small portions for which they were intended.  But-- and this is a big
"but," occasioned by a "big butt"--that principle is for long-term
lifetime maintenance.  Even low glycemic load refined carbs can throw
a monkey wrench into the weight loss efforts of someone with metabolic
syndrome.  I can no longer strictly follow Atkins because ketosis is
unwise for someone on a diuretic-containing anti-hypertensive drug
(which is keeping my b.p. nice and normal). But I tried Ornish and
Pritikin, and they were disastrous. The less fat and the more
carbs--even whole grains--I ate, the more starch I wanted to eat and I
kept gaining weight.   You should also know that though my glucose is
normal (low 90s), type 2 diabetes struck every woman on both sides of
my family: mother, both grandmothers, aunts, sister, even first
cousins. I figured the sooner I began eating like a diabetic, the
longer it'd take to become one. My doctors (except for the
acupuncturist/chiropractor, who doesn't even have a masters' degree)
all heartily agree. I also eschew trans fats and try to keep my
protein as lean as possible (I treat myself to a little butter every
now & then--mostly on the small amount of sourdough bread I
occasionally"
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
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Already know =
the dangers of sugar substitutes: aspartame is notdangerous unless you have PKU, then it's deadly; and =
it will degradeand taste awful if stale or =
heated.  No danger with sucralose(Splenda), =
except that it tastes "flabby." Sugar alcohols (maltitol,mannitol, sorbitol) make marvelous laxatives but =
lousy sweeteners.Saccharine (the pink stuff) =
tastes terrible although beloved by theelderly. =
Contrary to prior belief, no danger from cyclamate (Sucaryl,only available outside the US).  Researched this =
extensively, and amnot one of those people who =
believes everything "natural" is safeof a lab (including medicines) =
is "poison."  Anything taken to excessis =
unwise, but artificial sweeteners used appropriately and =
sparinglyare not a problem (other than an =
obvious esthetic one--they all tasteinferior to =
cane or beet sugar or honey).  I prefer seltzer(unsweetened) to diet soda anyway. And I never =
sweeten my coffee ordrink flavored lattes. (My =
husband is a cardiologist, who can eatanything =
he wants yet has no sweet tooth, and he concurs).
As to =
vitamins, I prefer to take them the old-fashioned way whereverpossible:  via the foods into which Mother Nature =
placed them. I dotake a multi, but it's a =
capsule.  I always eat a good breakfastwithin =
an hour of arising--I must or I will get peckish before lunchand eat junk.
I meant it when I said "your =
mileage may vary." I used to do quitewell on =
Weight Watchers and calorie-counting/exercise, and then I hitperimenopause.  Suddenly I became insulin =
resistant, my blood pressurecrept up and =
so did my LDLs (fortunately, my HDLs have always beenfreakishly high so statins are contraindicated), and =
to my horror mywashboard abs/pear-shape gave =
way to a definite apple- shapedphysique.  =
Not just my cardiologist husband but EVERY M.D. I've seensince then has enthusiastically recommended a =
low-glycemic diet (firstthe Carb =
Addicts' Lifespan Plan, then Atkins and South Beach and nowthe Glycemic Index Diet).  The latter is what I'm =
gravitating toward,but as a maintenance plan. =
Glycemic "load," rather than the bare"index," =
is now thought to be the key--hence the theoreticalpermissibility of small amounts of white flour in =
things likesourdough bread or otherwise =
high-fiber-added food, or small amountsof very =
dark chocolate containing sugar--the chocolate is morebeneficial than the tiny amount of sugar is harmful. =
Ditto stuff likeBasmati (but not jasmine or =
brown!) rice and converted durum pastas.They are =
considered to have a low glycemic load when consumed in thesmall portions for which they were intended.  =
But-- and this is a big"but," =
occasioned by a "big butt"--that principle is for long-termlifetime maintenance.  Even low glycemic load =
refined carbs can throwa monkey =
wrench into the weight loss efforts of someone with metabolicsyndrome.  I can no longer strictly follow Atkins =
because ketosis isunwise for someone on a =
diuretic-containing anti-hypertensive drug(which =
is keeping my b.p. nice and normal). But I tried Ornish andPritikin, and they were disastrous. The less fat and =
the morecarbs--even whole grains--I ate, =
the more starch I wanted to eat and Ikept =
gaining weight.   You should also know that though my glucose =
isnormal (low 90s), type 2 diabetes struck every =
woman on both sides ofmy family: mother, both =
grandmothers, aunts, sister, even firstcousins. =
I figured the sooner I began eating like a diabetic, thelonger it'd take to become one. My doctors (except =
for theacupuncturist/chiropractor, who =
doesn't even have a masters' degree)all heartily =
agree. I also eschew trans fats and try to keep myprotein as lean as possible (I treat myself to a =
little butter everynow & then--mostly on =
the small amount of sourdough bread I
  
=
--Apple-Mail-34-81089135--

2) From: Ken Mary
<Snip>
We can argue this another time.  :-)
<Snip>
For those of us like myself who do not eat enough raw fruits and veggies,
vitamins are cheap insurance. I attribute my good health (knock on wood) to
my consumption of vitamin and mineral supplements begun over 40 years ago.
<Snip>
This is a widely misunderstood "problem" with Atkins. The ketosis should
only happen in the initial phase where carbs are drastically reduced. If yo=
u
"titrated" your ketones to determine your carb tolerance, you can always
return to just above that carb level and not worry about ketosis. Large
changes in your health status or weight may require another titration.
I hope that you will continue to look for a natural BP cure so you can
eliminate the need for a drug. It could be as simple as drinking water
BEFORE the meal. If you are chronically dehydrated, the body responds by
raising BP to maintain the physical structure of the body necessary for
proper function of liquid and gas exchange. Unfortunately, diuretics make
dehydration problems worse, and upset the critical balance of sodium,
potassium, calcium and magnesium. If you are properly hydrated then the cur=
e
may be as simple as natural anti-inflammatories such as turmeric, ginger,
omega 3 fats, etc. Turmeric was my cure. It alone reduced my lifelong bp
from 145/90 with occasional spikes of 175/105 to a normal 120/70. I was
shocked that such small amounts (1/4 teaspoon a day) of a natural spice ove=
r
the course of 6 weeks could so profoundly affect my BP. I now use turmeric
and/or ginger only a few times a week as food seasoning. My BP now never
rises above 135/85, and is nearly always close to 120/70. Of course, your
cure may be different.
BTW coffee with caffeine does not raise my BP, as measured by wrist monitor
every half hour for 4 hours after consumption.
--

3) From: raymanowen
And then there are the blockheads like Yours Truly- unlettered wannabe (ULW)
who wonders what we do to ourselves when we deny ourselves certain foods
instead of enjoying the abundant variety from Antigua to Zimbabwe.
I got a Stir Crazy8, and thought the plastic-geared clock motor had to be a
stretch, even for stirring a few oz of popcorn at temperature. Wow- does the
SC ever do a job on popcorn. Guess it's supposed to, what? Besides, you
can't do Kettle Corn in an air popper, and the SC does just great.
Huh- I always thought Correctol was the film developer to be used in case
you shot a roll of Plus-X with the exposure meter set to 400 for Tri-X.
Instead of sorbitol, you could try some microdol and see what develops.
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
On 7/7/06, Sandy Andina  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
"When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the Mighty
Wichita WurliTzer- 1976

4) From: Maria Penon
On 7/7/06, Sandy Andina  wrote:
<Snip>
It was traced as the source of my migraines by my doctors.  I find now that
I've discovered  that  little fact that it appears to be a very common
result of Apartame.  I don't have PKU but since getting off Aspartame I no
longer have migraines.  So not to frown on your husbands opinion, but I'll
stick with my doctors.
MO

5) From: Sandy Andina
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On Jul 8, 2006, at 9:00 AM, Ken Mary wrote:
<Snip>
That was what I meant by not "strictly following" Atkins.  However,  
for someone on diuretics (more on that infra), ketosis is a bit more  
of at least a theoretical danger than for most people who need not  
worry about it. (The ketosis induced by a low-carb diet has no  
harmful effects on the vast majority of healthy people). My carb  
tolerance is between 45-65gm/day:  above 45 I plateau and above 65 I  
gain.  I suppose exercise would help, but I have severe arthritis due  
to numerous athletic and onstage injuries, that makes most exercise  
quite painful and increases rather than suppresses my appetite.
<Snip>
My electrolytes are periodically monitored and are just fine (I watch  
my sodium intake and eat just enough low-glycemic raw fruit to avoid  
having to take K).  The HTCZ in my BP medication, and the angiotensin  
receptor blocker (ARB) itself, are indispensable parts of the regimen  
that keeps my BP normal.  Tried turmeric alone (with adequate  
hydration, of course):  it had NO effect on my BP.  The ARB (Cozaar  
or Diovan) without HTCZ, plus turmeric,  as well as an ARB/HTCZ combo  
(Hyzaar) sans turmeric, reduced my BP only to 130/85. (Untreated, it  
was 145/90, sometimes spiking to 155/105). Hyzaar plus a turmeric  
capsule keeps it at a constant 110-120/70.  Turmeric also helps my  
tinnitus and arthritis (after the reports about Vioxx came out, I  
reluctantly discontinued all Cox-2 inhibitors and NSAIDs).  I take  
ginger before I fly, instead of Dramamine. Cheaper for sure. And I  
love freshly grated ginger or gari (though the latter is pickled in  
sweetened vinegar).
<Snip>
The cardiac risks of caffeine are vastly overstated, and more than  
offset by its cognitive, metabolic and hepatic benefits (not to  
mention enjoyment).  A pal of mine once boasted a few years ago that  
caffeine had no effect on her. Skeptical, I served her the entire  
contents of a moka pot of Bustelo and then took her BP. It was  
115/65. Her pulse was 64. She easily fell asleep a few minutes later  
when she went off to nap.   However, caffeine taken to excess can  
raise insulin levels (retarding weight loss) and aggravate tinnitus  
and (along with excess sodium) Meniere's syndrome. So I limit my  
caffeine to the equivalent of 4 shots of espresso and an occasional  
cup of drip or presspot a day, switching to good homeroasted decaf  
(or Metropolis' decaf Red Line or Intelly's decaf Black Cat) after that.
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
--Apple-Mail-38-136300976
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On Jul 8, 2006, at =
9:00 AM, Ken Mary wrote:

I can no longer strictly follow Atkins = because ketosis is

unwise for someone on a diuretic-containing anti-hypertensive = drug

(which is = keeping my b.p. nice and normal).

This is a widely misunderstood "problem" with Atkins. The = ketosis should

only happen in the initial phase where carbs are drastically = reduced. If you

"titrated" your ketones to determine your carb tolerance, you = can always

return to = just above that carb level and not worry about = ketosis. 

That was what I meant by not = "strictly following" Atkins.  However, for someone on diuretics (more = on that infra), ketosis is a bit more of at least a theoretical danger = than for most people who need not worry about it. (The ketosis induced = by a low-carb diet has no harmful effects on the vast majority of = healthy people). My carb tolerance is between 45-65gm/day:  above 45 I = plateau and above 65 I gain.  I suppose exercise would help, but I = have severe arthritis due to numerous athletic and onstage injuries, = that makes most exercise quite painful and increases rather than = suppresses my appetite.

I hope = that you will continue to look for a natural BP cure so you = can

eliminate = the need for a drug. It could be as simple as drinking water

=

BEFORE the meal. If you are = chronically dehydrated, the body responds by

raising BP to maintain the = physical structure of the body necessary for

proper function of liquid = and gas exchange. Unfortunately, diuretics make

dehydration problems worse, = and upset the critical balance of sodium,

potassium, calcium and magnesium. =

My electrolytes are periodically monitored = and are just fine (I watch my sodium intake and eat just enough = low-glycemic raw fruit to avoid having to take K).  The HTCZ in my BP = medication, and the angiotensin receptor blocker (ARB) itself, are = indispensable parts of the regimen that keeps my BP normal.  Tried = turmeric alone (with adequate hydration, of course):  it had NO effect = on my BP.  The ARB (Cozaar or Diovan) without HTCZ, plus turmeric,  = as well as an ARB/HTCZ combo (Hyzaar) sans turmeric, reduced my BP only = to 130/85. (Untreated, it was 145/90, sometimes spiking to 155/105). = Hyzaar plus a turmeric capsule keeps it at a constant 110-120/70.  = Turmeric also helps my tinnitus and arthritis (after the reports about = Vioxx came out, I reluctantly discontinued all Cox-2 inhibitors and = NSAIDs).  I take ginger before I fly, instead of Dramamine. Cheaper = for sure. And I love freshly grated ginger or gari (though the latter is = pickled in sweetened vinegar).

BTW coffee with caffeine does not raise my BP, as measured by = wrist monitor

every half hour for 4 hours after consumption.

= The cardiac risks of caffeine are vastly overstated, and = more than offset by its cognitive, metabolic and hepatic benefits (not = to mention enjoyment).  A pal of mine once boasted a few years ago = that caffeine had no effect on her. Skeptical, I served her the entire = contents of a moka pot of Bustelo and then took her BP. It was 115/65. = Her pulse was 64. She easily fell asleep a few minutes later when she = went off to nap.   However, caffeine taken to excess can raise = insulin levels (retarding weight loss) and aggravate tinnitus and (along = with excess sodium) Meniere's syndrome. So I limit my caffeine to the = equivalent of 4 shots of espresso and an occasional cup of drip or = presspot a day, switching to good homeroasted decaf (or Metropolis' = decaf Red Line or Intelly's decaf Black Cat) after = that. = --Apple-Mail-38-136300976--

6) From: Sandy Andina
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On Jul 8, 2006, at 10:33 AM, raymanowen wrote:
<Snip>
If I could draw, I always wanted to do a cartoon:   picture the  
sidelines of an NFL game. On the left, in the front row, is a guy in  
a rainbow wig holding up a placard reading "John 3:16."  Next to him,  
a photographer, neck festooned with multiple cameras, holding up a  
placard reading "Dektol 1:6."
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
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On Jul 8, 2006, at =
10:33 AM, raymanowen=
 wrote:
Huh- I always = thought Correctol was the film developer to be used in case you shot a = roll of Plus-X with the exposure meter set to 400 for Tri-X. Instead of = sorbitol, you could try some microdol and see what develops.  If I could draw, I always wanted to do a cartoon:   picture the = sidelines of an NFL game. On the left, in the front row, is a guy in a = rainbow wig holding up a placard reading "John 3:16."  Next to him, a = photographer, neck festooned with multiple cameras, holding up a placard = reading "Dektol 1:6." = --Apple-Mail-40-136747519--

7) From: Brett Mason
Cheerios might make a good substitute...
Brett
On 7/8/06, Sandy Andina  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Regards,
Brett Mason
HomeRoast
   Zassman


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