HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Time frame for keeping green coffee? (32 msgs / 1008 lines)
1) From: Lynne
With all the talk about ordering coffee (and w/amounts that put my 26 lb 
order to shame), a question popped into my head (with my recent lack of 
sleep, it's a wonder I can even recognize the thought):
How long does green coffee (I plan to dust off and actually use my 
vacuum sealer) stay fresh?
Lynne

2) From: Brett Mason
Hi Lynne,
Greens store for only about two months.  Sad, I know.
If you just ship me the rest of your stash, I can keep them in an advanced
storage facility, and I'll let you know how good they were.  Eventually.
Brett
On 7/10/06, Lynne  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Regards,
Brett Mason
HomeRoast
   Zassman

3) From: Vicki Smith
Shame on you Brett, for teasing her. In dry, fairly cool (which means in 
my house, in the closet under the stairs in the lower level), and dark 
conditions, I figure about a year. Some people store beans much longer, 
and green beans are said to freeze well, as long as moisture doesn't get 
into the storage containers.
v
Brett Mason wrote:
<Snip>

4) From: Brett Mason
I truly fear for the quality of her cup, and really, two months IS pushing
it.  I can supply my address as required.
Regards,
Brett
P.S> Vicki is right, but can't fault a guy for trying, even a Maytag Blue
car guy...
On 7/10/06, Vicki Smith  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Regards,
Brett Mason
HomeRoast
   Zassman

5) From: Lynne
Thank you, Vicki. Don't have room in the freezer (landlord owns it, I 
shouldn't complain, but I actually do, daily... never hated a fridge 
more). Will vacuum seal them. At this point I don't plan on buying that 
much at once, but it's good to know for the future.
Lynne
Vicki Smith wrote:
<Snip>

6) From: Lynne
Brett -
You are probably right. I'm packing it all up for you now.
Don't worry that the beans are extremely small and smell like sunflower 
seeds.
L.
Brett Mason wrote:
<Snip>

7) From: Brett Mason
Cracking me up at work!  Very nicely done...
On 7/10/06, Lynne  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Regards,
Brett Mason
HomeRoast
   Zassman

8) From: Brett Mason
I think the beans do well in cloth bags with a little ventilation, for at
least a year if not longer.  You don't want to seal in moisture if it can
lead to mold or mildew...
Brett
On 7/10/06, Lynne  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Regards,
Brett Mason
HomeRoast
   Zassman

9) From: Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee
Brett, you are BAD! Bad bad bad ...
Seriously Lynne - it does matter where you store your coffee, and as 
viki wrote a cool dark place helps. Thinking on how to best store 
green is changing: we have always felt that a permeable material for 
long term storage is better (ie 6-9 months), and a less permeable 
material for shipping might be fine and help preserve the coffee if 
heat and humidity fluctuate. Actually now we are trying to get some 
of the farms we work with to change packaging: The Australia Mountain 
Top XF coffee I am listing today is shipped by air freight in valve 
bags due to the long shipping times and bad climate conditions coming 
from Aussie land. We are working on something similar for next years 
Peru coffees. Anyway, thats on the supplier side of things. The main 
thing is what to avoid: you can kill greens quickly if you put a 
plastic bag of it in the sun: watch the moisture condense in the bag 
within minutes or a couple hours!
Tom
PS: buy decafs with a 4-6 month storage time in mind - they do not 
store as well. And remember too that on my end I am hyper-sensitive 
about the age/storage conditions of the green, which matters a lot. 
If I bought coffee, stored it 9 months then shipped it to you, you 
would NOT have a reasonable expectation for a good cup if YOU then 
stored it 6 months. Part of getting back to the mild SF bay area 
climate from Ohio was coffee storage. This is probably the best 
natural coffee storage climate in the US.
I truly fear for the quality of her cup, and really, two months IS 
pushing it.  I can supply my address as required.
Regards,
Brett
P.S> Vicki is right, but can't fault a guy for trying, even a Maytag 
Blue car guy...
On 7/10/06, Vicki Smith 
<vicki.smith> wrote:
Shame on you Brett, for teasing her. In dry, fairly cool (which means in
my house, in the closet under the stairs in the lower level), and dark
conditions, I figure about a year. Some people store beans much longer,
and green beans are said to freeze well, as long as moisture doesn't get
into the storage containers.
v
Brett Mason wrote:
<Snip>

10) From: Sandy Andina
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Two months??? Good grief, my entire stash except for the 2lbs. of  
Greenline and 4 of decaf Greenline I have left needs to be tossed,  
then?  It's news to everyone who keeps using up my Aged Sumatra, PR  
Yauco, El Salvador Kilimanjaro and Harar Horse 30 as fast as I can  
roast it these days.  Said stash at this point is less than 25 lbs.,  
and unless I start selling at the corner farmers' market (and why  
should I with Metropolis just blocks away), that should still last me  
MONTHS. And not just two.  I suspect the non-SM's JBM I chucked was  
icky and fermented as soon as I got it.
On Jul 10, 2006, at 2:55 PM, Brett Mason wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
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Two months??? Good grief, my =
entire stash except for the 2lbs. of Greenline and 4 of decaf Greenline =
I have left needs to be tossed, then?  It's news to everyone who keeps =
using up my Aged Sumatra, PR Yauco, El Salvador Kilimanjaro and Harar =
Horse 30 as fast as I can roast it these days.  Said stash at this =
point is less than 25 lbs., and unless I start selling at the corner =
farmers' market (and why should I with Metropolis just blocks away), =
that should still last me MONTHS. And not just two.  I suspect the =
non-SM's JBM I chucked was icky and fermented as soon as I got =
it.
On Jul 10, 2006, at 2:55 PM, Brett Mason =
wrote:
I truly fear for the quality of her cup, and really, = two months IS pushing it.  I can supply my address as required. =   Regards, Brett   = P.S> Vicki is right, but can't fault a guy for trying, even a = Maytag Blue car guy...   On 7/10/06, Vicki = Smith <vicki.smith> = wrote: Shame on = you Brett, for teasing her. In dry, fairly cool (which means in my = house, in the closet under the stairs in the lower level), and dark = conditions, I figure about a year. Some people store beans much = longer, and green beans are said to freeze well, as long as moisture = doesn't get into the storage containers. v Brett Mason = wrote: > Hi Lynne, > > Greens store for only about = two months.  Sad, I = know. homeroast = mailing list =http://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroastTo change = your personal list settings (digest options, vacations, unsvbscribes) go = to http://=sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings =
-- = Regards, Brett Mason HomeRoast    = Zassman = --Apple-Mail-80-309541284--

11) From: Lynne
I'm including some fresh roasted coffee, too. Sorry it's already ground. 
(BF is yelling, can't find his Folgers instant coffee)
L.
Brett Mason wrote:
<Snip>

12) From: Lynne
Sandy -
Brett was being sarcastic. Watch out - he'll start asking /you/ to send 
your stash to him, too!
I am hoping my 26 lbs I just ordered would last me months. Once everyone 
tastes the difference... then it goes faster than planned.
Some of my neighbors walk to the Dunkin Donuts up the street every 
morning. If they only knew...
Lynne
Sandy Andina wrote:
<Snip>

13) From: Lynne
So do you think cloth bags are better than the vacuum sealed bags for 
storing?
L.
Brett Mason wrote:
<Snip>

14) From: Brett Mason
Hi Sandy,
There may be some misunderstanding.  This could be critical (as in throwing
away such OLDER beans).  I indicated she should send her whole stash to ME
for safekeeping, not throw away.
I realize the angst this concern has caused, and have therefore allocated
such additional space in my stash closet to accommodate any of your expired
beans (older than two months).
The entire premise here is to ease the minds of roasters regarding the age
of their stash.  A more relaxed spirit should lead to heightened enjoyment
of the cup.  This of course is the only reason for offering such long term
storage - for free at that!
I can make room for as much as any roaster would like to store.  Long term
results will be publicized appropriately.
Regards,
Brett
On 7/10/06, Sandy Andina  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Regards,
Brett Mason
HomeRoast
   Zassman

15) From: Vicki Smith
I think we should declare a "Send Your Stuff to Brett" day. I have a 
plastic bucket full of dryer lint, which he can, no doubt, weave into 
most excellent bags for storing coffee.
v
Lynne wrote:
<Snip>

16) From: Sandy Andina
--Apple-Mail-81-311496673
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And I suppose that your duties would include periodic consumption to  
monitor freshness and quality?
On Jul 10, 2006, at 3:50 PM, Brett Mason wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
--Apple-Mail-81-311496673
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And I suppose that your duties =
would include periodic consumption to monitor freshness and =
quality?<g>
On Jul 10, 2006, at 3:50 PM, Brett Mason =
wrote:
Hi Sandy,   There may be some = misunderstanding.  This could be critical (as in throwing away such = OLDER beans).  I indicated she should send her whole stash to ME for = safekeeping, not throw away.   I realize the = angst this concern has caused, and have therefore allocated such = additional space in my stash closet to accommodate any of your expired = beans (older than two months).   The entire = premise here is to ease the minds of roasters regarding the age of their = stash.  A more relaxed spirit should lead to heightened enjoyment of = the cup.  This of course is the only reason for offering such long = term storage - for free at that!   I can make = room for as much as any roaster would like to store.  Long term = results will be publicized appropriately.   = Regards, Brett   On 7/10/06, Sandy = Andina <sandraandina> = wrote: Two months??? Good grief, my entire = stash except for the 2lbs. of Greenline and 4 of decaf Greenline I have = left needs to be tossed, then?  It's news to everyone who keeps using = up my Aged Sumatra, PR Yauco, El Salvador Kilimanjaro and Harar Horse 30 = as fast as I can roast it these days.  Said stash at this point is = less than 25 lbs., and unless I start selling at the corner farmers' = market (and why should I with Metropolis just blocks away), that should = still last me MONTHS. And not just two.  I suspect the non-SM's JBM I = chucked was icky and fermented as soon as I got it. On Jul 10, 2006, = at 2:55 PM, Brett Mason wrote: = I truly fear for the quality of her cup, and really, two months IS = pushing it.  I can supply my address as required.   = Regards, Brett   P.S> Vicki = is right, but can't fault a guy for trying, even a Maytag Blue car = guy...   On 7/10/06, Vicki Smith <vicki.smith > wrote: = Shame on you Brett, for = teasing her. In dry, fairly cool (which means in my house, in the = closet under the stairs in the lower level), and dark conditions, I = figure about a year. Some people store beans much longer, and green = beans are said to freeze well, as long as moisture doesn't get into = the storage containers. v Brett Mason wrote: > Hi = Lynne, > > Greens store for only about two months.  Sad, = I = know. homeroast = mailing list =http://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroastTo change = your personal list settings (digest options, vacations, unsvbscribes) go = to =http://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings=
-- = Regards, Brett Mason HomeRoast    = Zassman Sandy www.sandyandina.com  
-- = Regards, Brett Mason HomeRoast    = Zassman = --Apple-Mail-81-311496673--

17) From: Sandy Andina
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I could supply some cat hair, which would lend a certain je ne sais  
quoi...
On Jul 10, 2006, at 3:53 PM, Vicki Smith wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
--Apple-Mail-82-311545958
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I could supply some cat hair, =
which would lend a certain je ne sais quoi...
On Jul 10, =
2006, at 3:53 PM, Vicki Smith wrote:
I think we should declare a "Send Your Stuff to = Brett" day. I have a plastic bucket full of dryer lint, which he can, no = doubt, weave into most excellent bags for storing coffee. Lynne wrote: Sandy -Brett was = being sarcastic. Watch out - he'll start asking /you/ to send your stash = to him, too! homeroast mailing listhttp://li=sts.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroastTo change your personal list settings (digest = options, vacations, unsvbscribes) go to http://=sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings = = --Apple-Mail-82-311545958--

18) From: Vicki Smith
But is it civet cat hair?
v
Sandy Andina wrote:
<Snip>

19) From: Sandy Andina
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Dunno--but if I feed them some coffee beans.....
On Jul 10, 2006, at 3:58 PM, Vicki Smith wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
--Apple-Mail-83-312146783
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Dunno--but if I feed them some =
coffee beans.....
On Jul 10, 2006, at 3:58 PM, Vicki Smith =
wrote:
But is it civet cat = hair? vSandy Andina wrote: = I could supply some cat = hair, which would lend a certain je ne sais quoi... = homeroast mailing listhttp://li=sts.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroastTo change your personal list settings (digest = options, vacations, unsvbscribes) go to http://=sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings = = --Apple-Mail-83-312146783--

20) From: Claus Thøgersen
Hi,
In geneeral I  keep all my beans in cloth bags, but since I live outside the
uS I have to order many beans at a time, so I am used to having beans around
for 12 to 18 months, and still it is very good coffee I get from these old
beans!
I have a few Bodum glass containers with wooden tops sory I cannot remember
the correct word! and when i store beans in these glass containers the beans
smell very green and fresh much more than the beans stored in the cloth
bags. The probem with the glass containers is that they cannot hold the 5
pound orders that is what I usually order for each green bean,  but the
difference in smell is so noticable that I think that the roast may be
better! I have not at all even tried to conduct serious experiments to
verify this sensation.
Claus Thøgersen
Fra: "Brett Mason" 
Til: 
Sendt: 10. juli 2006 22:19
Emne: Re: +Time frame for keeping green coffee?
<Snip>

21) From: miKe mcKoffee
I do not think cloth bag storage necessarily better or worse. Under ideal
controlled humidity and temp conditions likely nearly the same. Given
variable conditions I believe vac bag storage superior. Vac bag sealing
helps keep the greens at their original moisture state and protects from
other potential contaminations while cloth bag storage beans can go bad in
less than a day given bad storage conditions. (ie like very high 98%
humidity 98f degrees) Or extremely dry storage conditions cloth bag stored
greens can dry out fast going bad differently. Vac bag sealing is nothing
like zip bag storage btw which is probably the worst method for the reasons
Brett stated.
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
<Snip>

22) From: Vicki Smith
Well, if they force feed geese (not in Canada) for foie gras...
v
Sandy Andina wrote:
<Snip>

23) From: Scot Murphy
I had a bad situation with storage recently, making me switch to  
cotton bags. I ordered 10 pounds of the famous Lot 30 Horse and 5  
pounds of Yemen Sana'ani, only to have them--and only them!-- 
mysteriously go "baggy." If that's the right word--they smelled  
weird, a little moldy, a LOT cheesy. I got into a financial bind here  
in the last month and a half (over, thankfully) where I couldn't  
order any new coffee, so I was making my stash of Matadakad and  
Fazenda Ipanema Dulce last...resorting, finally, to the cheese-beans  
when I had no others. BLECCCCHHHH!!! At least I had some of the other  
left that I could cut it with. But huzzah! tomorrow brings 20 pounds  
of Matadakad and six pounds of others! And the yucky greens can be  
tossed out into the woods next door!
Scot "amazing how much Coke Zero one can drink in a pinch" Murphy

24) From: Mike Chester
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
I am packaging mine now.  Go stand by your mailbox and wait for them.
Mike

25) From: Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee
That is odd - because those 2 coffees store really  well for me and 
in a way they actually cup okay with a bit of bagginess (whereas a 
coffee like a really crisp, citric, bright yirgacheffe is awful with 
even the slightest bagginess. Did they get exposed to high humidity 
or moisture? I mean, do they actually have a moldy taste?
Tom
<Snip>
--
                   "Great coffee comes from tiny roasters"
            Sweet Maria's Home Coffee Roasting  -  Tom & Maria
                      http://www.sweetmarias.com                Thompson Owen george_at_sweetmarias.com
     Sweet Maria's Coffee - 1115 21st Street, Oakland, CA 94607 - USA
             phone/fax: 888 876 5917 - tom_at_sweetmarias.com

26) From: Brett Mason
I have set up a schedule where my kids are taking 1 hour shifts at the
mailbox.  This is in case mail arrives apart from the post man who comes
every day at 10:15.  Thanks all for your guidance!
No beans yet,
Brett
On 7/10/06, Mike Chester  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Regards,
Brett Mason
HomeRoast
   Zassman

27) From: Scot Murphy
On Jul 10, 2006, at 4:27 PM, Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee wrote:
<Snip>
The funny thing is, they were exposed to no abnormal humidity or heat  
or moisture--at least, no more so than the other beans I had which  
were kept in the same area and state but were unaffected. I keep them  
in their original plastic bags (at least, I did) out of sunlight and  
in a room which rarely gets above 80. The humidity in the Chicago  
area has been pretty high this year, but like I said, only those  
beans were affected. I had several varieties on hand which had no  
problem like that at all. As far as taste... Well, what does roasted  
mold taste like? ;)  The roasted flavor is harsh, more bitter, really  
robusta-like. I've found I can tolerate them with a LOT of half-and- 
half and IF they are cut with other, unaffected varieties, but  
otherwise, ick. When I roast them, the smell is initially pungent,  
very strongly cheesy, then going toward sharpness--a little like  
burning plastic. Robusta-like, as I said. They didn't arrive that  
way, but they turned that way quickly.
I blamed it on the plastic bags, which is why I ordered the cotton  
bags with the current shipment. This makes me think, though, that  
what we need here is an experiment. What you ought to do, Tom, is dip  
into your private reserve of remaining Lot 30 and send it to me so  
that I can store it under different conditions (drier, cooler, cotton  
bags) and then sample it over time to see how it has reacted. Now  
that I think of it, this will take a LOT of experimentation. Better  
send me 10 pounds of your private stash. It's in the name of science.
Scot "yeah, that's the ticket" Murphy

28) From: Brett Mason
So Tom, here's the question for you...  we could have cancelled the thread
with a simple answer up front.  But wasn't this more fun?  I think Lynne got
the answer she needed, many people contributed, and we actually stayed on
Coffee...
Cheers,
Brett
On 7/10/06, Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee 
wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Regards,
Brett Mason
HomeRoast
   Zassman

29) From:
Lynne:
I would keep them for two years without any issue. If you do as some here and freeze 'dem beans maybe longer.
I roast mine within a five month period of time, usually!!  If I have beans that need to be used I gang bang them for a crazy roast and hit the spot at times.
Enjoy your greens. Do not worry about your greens getting stale at this point.
regards,
ginny
---- Lynne  wrote: 
<Snip>

30) From: Ed Needham
I roasted barley this weekend in one of my drums.  It cracks like coffee.  I 
pulled it before it got too dark (I already had two darker malts for the 
stout recipe), so a second crack 'might' be out there a bit further.
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"
ed at homeroaster dot com
(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************

31) From:
Brett:
You are a bad boy. Stop teasing Lynne.
I know all about your advanced storage facility. Looks like we have a new Urban Legend starting. I will post this one over on homeroasters.org under Tall Tales of the Bean...
I have a very advanced storages setup here in Scottsdale, my kitchen pantry plus I manage space in my office for a 150 pound bag of columbian.
I have a friend who uses his wine celler.
love ya bad boy,
goinny
---- Brett Mason  wrote: 
<Snip>

32) From: Lynne
Tom -
Thanks so much for both the information - and especially for running 
such a terrific business. There are few businesses today, even small 
businesses, that are as run as honorable.
I will be careful about the length of time I store the decaf I purchased.
So what if you don't have a cool, dark place to store the coffee? I'm in 
an apt. - a house, and while the basement is certainly cooler & darker 
than upstairs, it's also very dirty, and wouldn't store anything down 
there (this is a typical N.E. older home - a least 100 years old). I 
think I will just take a chance with the summer here (well, at least if 
I can find the space to store them in the kitchen - we get our 
landlord's air conditioning there!)
The rest of the year is def. cool here.
Lynne
Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee wrote:
<Snip>


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