OT: sort of - if youa re wondering what this is about, see the NY Times article about academic standards and athletics at Auburn. On the topic of visiting Jim, Ben, it's either a great time to visit or a horrible time, eh? I read the full article in the NYT and didn't even realize it was our James Gunlach ... a few days later there was some Letters to the Editor and it had a picture of Pecan Jim, and then it clicked. Anyway, Jim, if you are not in seclusion, I think what you have done is awesome because the entire way that sports and education interrelate needs to be discussed. It appears that all the NYT replies printed were supportive, one raising the issue that athlete students are put in a terrible spot too - basically most end up on the losing side of the equation too. Anyway, I see other votes of support on the list and I want to add mine. Now is the hard part, enduring the effects ... I imagine that most of the haters just see it as an anti-Auburn sentiment and don't consider the issue in a broader context, or see how it hurts both the integrity of the institution, hurts the students, and is insulting to anyone who cares about the principles of education. Anyway, good luck, Jim. Tom -- "Great coffee comes from tiny roasters" Sweet Maria's Home Coffee Roasting - Tom & Maria http://www.sweetmarias.com Thompson Owen george_at_sweetmarias.com Sweet Maria's Coffee - 1115 21st Street, Oakland, CA 94607 - USA phone/fax: 888 876 5917 - tom_at_sweetmarias.com
Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee wrote: <Snip> Yep, in fact I did something I hate to do and registered just to be able read what this was about. But then maybe he'll be glad to talk to someone who just wants to talk about coffee. FYI, my son is a scholar / athlete. High School honor role, signed up for a ton of AP classes, and I'm tutoring him in math this summer so he can take calculus his senior year. So I'm gals to see Jim up holding standards. <Snip> -- There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened.
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Reading the article and several others that have run in other papers since, the numbers do not seem to add up. Perhaps Jim could clarify... Quote: A number of athletes took multiple classes with Professor Petee over their careers: one athlete took seven such courses, three athletes took six, five took five and eight took four, according to records compiled by Professor Gundlach. He also found that more than a quarter of the students in Professor Petee's directed-reading courses were athletes. (Professor Gundlach could not provide specific names because of student privacy laws.) Quote: Eighteen members of the 2004 Auburn football team, which went undefeated and finished No. 2 in the nation, took a combined 97 hours of the courses during their careers. This is based on the assumption that the classes were 3hrs credit as is typical. 1 player, 7 courses = 21 hours 3 players, 6 courses = 54 hours 5 players, 5 courses = 75 hours 8 players, 4 courses = 96 hours Those numbers add up to 246 credit hours, not the stated 97. It just seems the more I read this article the more holes appear. I am really beginning to question the validity of the arguments the writer puts forth. The addition of history of the Auburn Program just adds to my impression that this is more of a smear of Auburn for some reason. The times seems inordinately interested in Auburn for some reason. If you look at the related articles on the times site, there is a similar one questioning the team chaplain from about a year and a half ago.
It seems that this story came to light through lots of difficult circumstance and, most probably, some genuine personal risk Professor Gundlach (Pecan Jim) took upon himself. He (and many others) have long felt strongly about problems surrounding education and athletics in America's colleges and universities. I would agree with Daniel that problems of the sort that Jim brought to light at Auburn likely go on at many universities across the country. After all, money talks, doesn't it? What is refreshing and admirable here is that Jim stepped up at great personal risk to himself to do something about it. It would have been much easier to let it slide. Does anyone really think Jim thought it would be fun to speak up? Thanks Jim. I suspect that the professor needs to focus his energy on dealing with the real world right now and not elaborating at length on this situation for th= e edification of the list. I admit that I am curious to hear as much as he is willing to share. Today's Mexican Oaxaca Finca El Olivo is dedicated to you Jim...a nice clean cup of coffee. Your fortitude is a service to what's right. It is interesting to note that this is not the first time Jim has seen thespotlight . TO in VA On 7/17/06, Daniel Newton wrote: <Snip> . <Snip> e <Snip> <Snip> <Snip>
On 7/17/06, Daniel Newton wrote: <Snip> e, <Snip> er <Snip> ix, <Snip> s <Snip> .) <Snip> the <Snip> ms <Snip> g <Snip> e <Snip> There are a lot of athletes in collegiate sports who are not football players. Basketball, baseball, tennis, golf, volleyball, etc... Neither Jim's info nor the article said those sociology students were exclusively football team members. I have always wondered how basketball and baseball team members can do the college work. During their sports' seasons, they play multiple games each week, half of them away from their college. Safe Journeys and Sweet Music Justin Marquez (Snyder, TX)
Justin, That is a good point. Perhaps I read the article as it was written to read. It just seems like the author is twisting things all over the place, with one sentence talking about student athletes, and the next mentioning the football program. Now I am not a fan of big time athletics, but if you want to attack them, you really need a better story than this. There are bound to be hundreds of more worth while things going on at college campuses involving athletes than this. In a purely academic light, this is a terrible story for Auburn.
--Apple-Mail-15-916582682 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset -ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Please add my belated support wishes to the growing list. Good work, Jim--illegitimi non carborundum!* * don't let the b******s grind ya down! On Jul 17, 2006, at 1:25 PM, Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee wrote: <Snip> Sandy www.sandyandina.com --Apple-Mail-15-916582682 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset O-8859-1 Please add my belated support = wishes to the growing list. Good work, Jim--illegitimi non = carborundum!*
On 7/17/06, Daniel Newton wrote: <Snip> I would guess that Auburn doesn't have a "lock" on preferred treatment for jocks. I suspect it is considerably more widespread. Auburn just had the rotten luck to have: 1) A willing faculty member in a position to "help" the jocks. 2) An honest academian who found the situation offensive and could blow the whistle from inside the ivory towers. And... have you wondered how all those jocks always managed to get into those "special" classes? I can answer that one. Many folks on athletic and other performance scholarships (the band, f'rinstance...) who must be at practice and such at a specific time get to register first. That was the one big perk of being a band member waaaaaay back in 1965 - you always got first crack at the schedule you needed (or wanted...). Maybe that isn't true any more with internet pre-registration, etc. I actually had some engineering classes with a couple of athletes who were plodding thru at the same time I was. They seemed to be honest students, too. They did ALL the work, just like the rest of us. Of course, there were others who were reputed to be not-so-honest, but I didn't have any first-hand knowledge of folks outside the chemical engineering classes and related course work. Bottom line was... football and other high-profile athletes DID seem to get away with more stuff than ordinary folks, academically and in "personal activity". I am pretty sure that still holds true today as well. Safe Journeys and Sweet Music Justin Marquez (Snyder, TX)
One of the ways they get these 'star' athletes through is by having them complete some of their academic requirements 'elsewhere'. I went to a small college in Yuma, Arizona back around 1980. We had a *tremendous* football and basketball team. The players were almost all transfers from 'big' schools. At a small school like that - at least at the time - no one made any bones about their 'scholarship' being entirely optional. Some of the football players I never even heard of going to any real class. The 6'11.75" basketball star kept blowing the curve in my Psychology class. Not sure why he had been 'sent down' but I don't think it was study related, unless it was the scheduling issue someone else pointed out. Enjoy! Steve :->