HomeRoast Digest


Topic: ristretto who? > RE: +Wow! New E61 group for $604.43! (4 msgs / 201 lines)
1) From: miKe mcKoffee
	From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Don Cummings
	Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 4:49 PM
	
<Snip>
	I've kept silent as long as I can.  Mike, please explain to me this
ristretto business.  At first I thought a ristretto meant a single =
pulled
from a double basket in a shorter time frame.  Kind of like taking just =
the
sweet gooey center of a double. 
<Snip>
Basically yes a "double ristretto" is a double basket pulled approx =
single
basket volume. And most cafes, if the person behind the counter even =
knows
of the term ristretto, will either stop the pull very short time or take =
the
"center of the pull" (also short time for amount the goes in demi') =
rather
than adj the grind finer for a true resticted pull (ristetto).
	 
<Snip>
and I am lost.  Why no 'golden rule' in regard to ristrettos? 
<Snip>
"Golden rule" is a golden guideline! Basically as I've come to =
understand it
greater volume shorter time, less volume longer time. On one end a =
coarse
Café' Crema high volume 5 to 6oz pull as short as 15 to 20 sec on the =
other
ristretto ~1oz pull 35 5o 40sec with a normale 2 to 2.5oz in the middle =
25
to 30sec range. Eventually the shot itself "will tell" you when to stop,
just before it blonds out watery. 
As far as ristrettos go it wasn't until recently the light bulb finally =
came
on. I'd read about 35-40sec times but didn't get it since as you =
mentioned
it "broke the Golden Rule"! While attempting to pull Gesha ristrettos =
last
month during PNWG IV Mike (just plain) mentioned he usually pulls 35sec
range. (I was still targeting the "Golden Rule" 25 to 30sec) I kind of =
went
duh remembering reading some such nonsense and gave it a try. Working =
the
grind finer for longer time frame ristrettos yields a deeper sweeter
ristretto. And if done right zero blonding just the barest lightening of =
the
crema towards the end of the pull. 
One of my first true super ristricted ristrettos was some time ago quite =
by
accident. Had loaded a triple with Yirg' (wet not DP) and had all but =
choked
Silvia yielding barely 1oz from a triple basket around 40sec mark. Man =
was
that intense Yirg'! Didn't realize it then but that was more as they =
should
be!
	 
<Snip>
thread where I can get the answer for this nagging question.
<Snip>
I'd say ristrettos not exactly espresso 101 or even 102, more 109;-) =
Heck
took me over two years with Silvia before I even had an espresso =
epiphany
realizing the linger the huge thing about straight shots. Almost another =
two
years before ristretto ephiphany.
	 
<Snip>
way short of PID or buying a Andreja to get an idea of what brew temp =
and
pump pressure I am getting on my shots.  If I wanted to measure brew =
temp
does the resulting shot offer any valuable info or do I need to thread a =
TC
into the PF or boiler 
<Snip>
Actually neither by themselves will tell you shot temp, Andreja with =
shot
pressure gauge will get that part. All HX machines (Andreja) require a =
surf
routine to hit desired shot temp and a PID added to a single boiler =
machine
controls the boiler temp not the shot temp. The current "standard" for
measuring shot temps is the Scace Thermofilter. Not cheap and requires a =
not
cheap meter 'cuz of using highly responsive type "T" tc. Using the
Thermofilter you can "get to know" your particular machine and hence
determine your shot temp. The "cheapest" machine out there that you can
actually set the shot temp relatively accurately is the Brewtus II @ =
$1700.
The reality is giving temps are more as a comparison point if someone =
wanted
to pull a shot of similar. You can determine if shot too hot or cold by
taste, which is what it's all about in the first place! Basically if =
bitter
shot was pulled too too hot, if sour shot too cold. Adj. accordingly.
Determining approx' shot pressure without a gauge in the machine is
relatively inexpensive and easy with PF mounted gauge. I'm barely =
beginning
to start to understand taste correlations between different shot =
pressures. 
Hope this helps more than confuses even more!
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I =
must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal =
enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone =
before.

2) From: Eddie Dove
Okay ... I've got my dog's bowl and some Sweet Maria's
green coffee beans ... wow, there is a lot to learn!
--- miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>http://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>">http://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast<Snip>http://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

3) From: Jared Andersson
Mike, I appreciate your espresso posts.  It is nice to have someone who wil=
l
both tinker with the process like you do and someone who can then express
what they did and why so clearly.  Jared (about to make a Presto
Scandinavian drip pot of Brazil Cerrado roasted to C++)
On 7/18/06, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
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4) From: Don Cummings
Thanks Mike,
I understand about Ristrettos now. In fact I pulled a delicious shot last
week where I started out recalibrating my grinder and went two notches fine=
r
than usual.  The shot didn't even start to dribble until 13 seconds and I
pulled a very short double at 40 seconds. I was surprised when it wasn't
horribly bitter. Figured I had overextracted the heck out of it. Probably
the closest I've gotten to a ristretto.
As far as measuring temp and pressure, I see people quoting 201 198 etc as
their brew temp all the time.  Then I saw a thread on another site talking
about reverse surfing and people were taking 5 second increment measurement=
s
down to target temp.  This made me wonder where they were placing the probe
to get that reading.  I know they weren't PID readings because that was the
point of the thread.  Someone mentioned a styrofoam cup.  Did he mean what =
I
think?  Hold the cup under the dispersion screen and probe the resulting
liquid?
On 7/18/06, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
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-- 
Don


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