HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Rustic Roasting (32 msgs / 707 lines)
1) From: Lynne Biziewski
Being a person of limited means - I first started roasting with my cast 
iron pan (a big one, still haven't found a smaller one w/higher sides 
locally), and lately, I've tried a Whirly-Pop (w/a thermometer I bought 
thru SM). The Whirly-Pop is def. more difficult to keep from getting a 
dark roast - once more, the roasting always finishes faster than the SM 
literature describes. Maybe I'm doing something wrong...
I also know part of my problem is that I have an electric stove, not 
gas. Cannot afford a fancy roaster - don't mind taking the time to learn 
how to do this right. Any suggestions?
Lynne

2) From: javafool
Lynne,
This is probably not the kind of answer you are looking for, but, when I
started roasting, I used a hot air popcorn popper like most of the =
people on
the list back then. I remember drinking a lot of great coffee from that
inexpensive popper.
Terry

3) From: Lynne
Terry -
That's O.K. I'll keep my eye out at yard sales & thrift shops. That's 
how I got my Whirly-Pop - spotted one at a yard sale around the corner 
when I was walking my dogs. For a whole buck.  : > })
I'm trying to figure out if there is something I'm doing wrong w/ the 
WP, though. Last time, after I put the beans in, the temp dropped below 
300 (fr. 400 degrees). Has to be the electric stove (can't keep the heat 
on constantly like a gas flame, so there are fluctuations in the heat). 
Maybe if I can get a cast iron pan w/higher sides (which would keep all 
the scattered beans to a minimum, I think), that might be better - the 
cast iron retains heat more than the aluminum WP.
Thought of trying the heat gun & dog bowl (have a couple of stainless 
steel bowls, but no heat gun - yet). Might give it a try (since I can 
return the heat gun if I'm not happy w/that technique.)
Lynne
javafool wrote:
<Snip>

4) From: Michael Wascher
I found a suitable popper at a Wallgreen's. It was $9.99. That was around
Christmas. I gave it & some beans to a friend for a Christmas present.
Check the popper to make sure it is suitable. It should have a solid bottom
to the chamber (no screened vent) and louvered vents around the side.
There's a photo on this SM page
.
On 7/19/06, Lynne  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
"There is nothing new under the sun but there are lots of old things we
don't know." --  Ambrose Bierce

5) From: Lynne
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Thanks - wouldn't think of finding one at Walgreen's. I'll take a look 
next time I'm there.
Thanks for the link.
Lynne
Michael Wascher wrote:
<Snip>

6) From: Eddie Dove
Do you recall if it was their "Kitchen Gourmet" brand?
 Red and Black box?
Eddie
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7) From: David B. Westebbe
 Cannot afford a fancy roaster - don't mind taking the 
<Snip>
Go to a thrift store and get a hot air popcorn maker for $4 or so.

8) From: Brett Mason
Add a metal colander to pour the beans into for cooling, and a wooden
spoon.  All told, $15 with David's popper.
This is so good for so little you will be astonished!
Brett
On 7/19/06, David B. Westebbe  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Regards,
Brett Mason
HomeRoast
   Zassman

9) From: Tom Ogren
Lynne,
I've been at it for several months now using a Westbend PopperyII. I roast
out back on the deck (no worries about smoke or chaff) and I dump the
roasted beans into a metal colander and stir over my air conditioning unit's
fan using wooden spoon. It feels a bit ridiculous dashing inside to flip the
A/C off and on as needed, but the unit's fan is big and powerful and cools
the beans very quickly.
My biggest gripe with my simple setup is that I lack fine control over bean
temperature.  If I could slow my roasts, I could finish at a lighter roast
level, but still be rid of that grassy, grainy flavor that lingers into
darker roast levels when your roast goes too fast. Without this ability, I
do feel I am missing out on the best possible roasts of most of my beans.
Still, I have managed to roast some of the best coffees I have ever had. The
lack of control also means each roast is a surprise experience...not
predictable for the most part.
TO in VA
On 7/19/06, Brett Mason  wrote:
<Snip>

10) From: Ed Needham
Poppers with a screen bottom work fine and really are not a hazard.  The 
Melitta Aromaroast uses a screen bottom, and both the Hearthware Precision 
and Gourmet blow air from the bottom.  I've used a number of bottom-up air 
roasters over the years and bought two recently that roast perfectly off the 
shelf (thrift store shelf, that is).
I think the idea it is a fire hazard is a theoretical construct and not 
based on a real threat.
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"
ed at homeroaster dot com
(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************

11) From: raymanowen
Tom, you have control over the roasting with your W/B P2.
Some control is better than no control. I misused said popcorn popper- WBP2-
for a little roasting enjoyment, and I used to pour between colanders to
cool the beans. This cooling would be done with some urgency when I'd
"chicken out" of a roast as I realized 2nd was almost supercritical.
Ha, ha, ha- this is good- "...I lack fine control..." over coffee roasting
[With a Popcorn Popper].
A#1)- There is a plethora of dedicated coffee roasters that have no such
fine control- and they do an excellent job of roasting.
A#2)- WYSIWYG, no two are the same and you just learn how to maximize what
you have-
B#1)- If you had such a roaster, Martha Stewart hasn't published a cookbook
with Roasting Recipes and bean numbers-
B#2)- When Ms. Stewart does publish roasting recipes derived from her
Research Roaster, she'd need to keep her [Cell] phone handy to explain why
the recipe didn't produce a great roast using an I-Roast 2 on 119.624 volts
rms. The ambient temperature was 68.1 degrees F-
wha' Hoppen?
C)-  The fine control would cost you a bundle o' beans before you realized
coffee roasting depends on many other factors than raw numbers. No two
roasters match up-
D)-  If you improve your roast, will you still grind with the same sorry
weed trimmer?
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
Buy a house in BAKErsfield, CA, and maybe you could roast on the sidewalk
for free! (A#2- WYSIWYG)

12) From: raymanowen
My Error- sorry, Lynne-
Why not give the Whirly Pop cold feet when you want to stop the roast
quickly?
Fill your sink with 2-3 inches of water, and set the WP in it when you want
to retard the roast.
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
-- 
"When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the Mighty
Wichita (ex- NYC Paramount) WurliTzer- 1976

13) From: Sandy Andina
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Confession time here--I do not have any kind of cooling setup for my  
SC/TO roasts. I've had good luck with letting the beans cool about 5  
min. post-roast while being stirred with the bottom heat off and the  
top removed, and then poured between two colanders for about a  
minute. By then they're cool enough to bag.
On Jul 20, 2006, at 12:26 AM, raymanowen wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
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Confession time here--I do not =
have any kind of cooling setup for my SC/TO roasts. I've had good luck =
with letting the beans cool about 5 min. post-roast while being stirred =
with the bottom heat off and the top removed, and then poured between =
two colanders for about a minute. By then they're cool enough to =
bag.
On Jul 20, 2006, at 12:26 AM, raymanowen =
wrote:
Tom, you have control over the roasting with your W/B = P2. Some control is better than no control. I misused said = popcorn popper- WBP2- for a little roasting enjoyment, and I used to = pour between colanders to cool the beans. This cooling would be done = with some urgency when I'd "chicken out" of a roast as I realized 2nd = was almost supercritical. Ha, ha, ha- this is good- "...I lack = fine control..." over coffee roasting [With a Popcorn = Popper]. A#1)- There is a plethora of dedicated coffee roasters = that have no such fine control- and they do an excellent job of = roasting. A#2)- WYSIWYG, no two are the same and you just learn = how to maximize what you have- B#1)- If you had such a roaster, = Martha Stewart hasn't published a cookbook with Roasting Recipes and = bean numbers- B#2)- When Ms. Stewart does publish roasting = recipes derived from her Research Roaster, she'd need to keep her [Cell] = phone handy to explain why the recipe didn't produce a great roast using = an I-Roast 2 on 119.624 volts rms. The ambient temperature was 68.1 = degrees F- wha' Hoppen? C)-  The fine control would cost you = a bundle o' beans before you realized coffee roasting depends on many = other factors than raw numbers. No two roasters match up- D)-  = If you improve your roast, will you still grind with the same sorry weed = trimmer? Cheers -RayO, aka Opa! Buy a house in = BAKErsfield, CA, and maybe you could roast on the sidewalk for free! = (A#2- WYSIWYG) = --Apple-Mail-50--1022160214--

14) From: TERRY TITSWORTH
On 7/19/06, Tom Ogren  wrote:
<Snip>
With the heat rolling through Oklahoma right now, I am tempted to
try ROASTING over the A/C's condensor fan. With 100+ outside temps the heat
being rejected by my system could almost take a roast into 1st
crack...Well...Not really, but it sure is throwing off some heat.
I have GOT to get a HG/DB set up....
Take care...Terry T
-- 
Start HOT and work your way Down...
Peppers AND Coffee.
[|:{O....[|:{U...

15) From: Lynne
Thank you. I actually don't have a problem with the cooling - I use a 
huge, plastic 'dollar store' colander (hey, it's what I've got) over a 
small fan. Cools them off fast.
What I am having difficulty with is regulating the temperature during 
the roasting, which, I think, is due to the electric stove. I will 
probably get a hot air popper when I can, if I can't figure this out.
Lynne
Brett Mason wrote:
<Snip>

16) From: Lynne
Yeah, I feel that's my problem with the electric stove. Or maybe I just 
haven't gotten the hang of it. Took a while to learn how to cook, I 
shouldn't expect to perfect this immediately.
I feel the same about the quality of the coffees. I roasted some beans 
too much - but it is still better than any coffee I'd buy already roasted.
Lynne
Tom Ogren wrote:
<Snip>

17) From: Lynne
Actually, the problem seems to be that the beans are roasting too fast, 
despite following SM's instructions (I did calibrate the thermometer). 
Of course, I need to stop roasting sooner, but I roast them for say, 5 
minutes - and then they are almost black!
Unless the positioning of the thermometer is wrong. That's possible...
Lynne
raymanowen wrote:
<Snip>

18) From: Brett Mason
RayO - you're not in Bakersfield?  OMG That place is hot.  Not as in it
Rocks, just sweltering...
Brett
On 7/20/06, raymanowen  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Regards,
Brett Mason
HomeRoast
   Zassman

19) From: Dan Kellgren
Lynne -
I too have had the same experience as you with the stove-top Whirly-Pop
method.  The good news is though, I've mastered it with the help of the fine
coffee connoisseurs of this SM forum.
A wise fellow-stovetop roaster gave me this profile and it is pretty much my
standard now for most roasts.  Sure, they vary based on the bean, but
generally speaking, this gives me fantastic coffee.
I do my entire roast and NEVER come close to 400 degrees in the pot.  Here's
the recipe:
I preheat the pot slowly to about 240-250 (this usually takes a few mins).
Then I dump in my beans.  I go by volume (rather than weight - sorry folks!)
and always use 2/3 of a cup.
Ok - now start stirring those beans.  I usually get a temperature drop of 10
- 30 degrees.  My target at this early stage is to be back at 250 degrees
around the 3 min. mark.  That kind of tells me if my heat is too high/low.
Ok - now I stir and heat for about 7 mins and I want to see a temp rise of
about 10 degrees per minute.  This puts me at around 325 at the 10 min
mark.  This is usually where I get my first crack.
Once that happens, I back off a bit by either lowering the heat or (more
likely) just moving the pot away from the burner.  And I'll stir and try to
keep the temp around 320-330 for a min or 2.
Ok - now we're at about 12 mins and 325ish (still).  Now it's time to bring
them up to 2nd crack.  The pot goes back on the burner and I heat them
another 2-3 mins.  Second crack will come around 14-15 min mark and at
around 345-350 degrees.  I never take mine much into second crack (if at
all), but knowing when that is coming is key to your flavors.  If I'm
stirring for 4-5 mins with no second crack and the beans are looking fine,
I'll pull them and let them cool.  If I hit second crack, I pull them fast
and cool them fast.  I DON'T want to see them get oily.
I'm using an aluminum pot like you.  I do have the advantage of GAS though.
I roast on an outdoor Coleman.  Oh, and I cool them by putting them in a
double colander to help remove chafe, then into the freezer for 2 mins in a
metal pan.  (then burr ground French Press after min. 12 hour rest, but
that's off topic!)
But I've tried the SM versions of 400, 450, 500 degrees and for this method
with these pots - that just doesn't work for me.  I'll have way overdone
coffee every time.  Don't worry about the lower temp profile listed here.
Give it a shot.  I think you'll be surprised.
Good luck!
Dan
On 7/19/06, Lynne Biziewski  wrote:
<Snip>

20) From: Lynne
Dan -
Thank you so much! I am going to give it a try today, with these 
instructions.
Was looking at a propane heater this morning - I was very tempted.. 
(have a very convenient porch w/picnic table where I could do my 
roasting). I'll give it a try on the electric stove first, though.
I'll let you know how it turns out.
Lynne
Dan Kellgren wrote:
<Snip>

21) From: Tom Ogren
RayO,
I know "fine control" might be a bit ambitious for unmodified popper
roasting. I mean simply that, in order to lengthen my roasts I have only two
strategies:
Reducing the quantity: of beans per batch effectively lengthens my roasts
since there is less heat buildup in the roast chamber. This strategy only
takes me so far though and is also affected by type of bean and of course
ambient temp. is always a huge factor outside.
Tilting: I have to say I'm still not convinced tilting releases heat from my
roast chamber since, once tilted, the bean mass slows considerably and
there's less "bean loft" to dissipate the heat.
I have no other way to decrease and increase my roast temperature in order
to achieve the flavor effects I'm after (i.e.-no graininess at City or City+
& deeper lows). I have accidentally stumbled into some "perfect" roasts
since I began, but that's just serendipity (which is always nice).
Ultimately, I should quit my whining (I know what I need to do to improve my
coffees) and either get a P1 and seperate the fan and heating element, or
get myself a variac.
Don't get me wrong, I still loooove the results from the Poppery2, but I'm
finicky and the wok and the HG/DB are looking better every day.
TO in VA
On 7/20/06, Lynne  wrote:
<Snip>

22) From: Woody DeCasere
really titlting reduces bean flow, wow when i was using the hot air popper
method it did the exact opposite, hmm very odd!
On 7/20/06, Tom Ogren  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
"Good night, and Good Coffee"

23) From: Woody DeCasere
wow there is a bad misspelling LOL tilting...whooow!
On 7/20/06, Woody DeCasere  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
"Good night, and Good Coffee"

24) From: Tom Ogren
I do get the 'rooster tail' effect, but the downslope side slows down a
bunch. Maybe tilting is still effective in releasing heat, but it seems that
the rooster tail is offset by the reduced loft on the other side of the
chamber. I don't have temperature readings to back my hunch up, just an
impression.
On 7/20/06, Woody DeCasere  wrote:
<Snip>

25) From: jim gundlach
Lynne,
    What you can do depends a lot on your living situation.  I live  
in the country and the most rustic and economical roasting I do is  
using the fallen branches from my pecan trees for fuel and roast in  
an old Androck over the fire popcorn popper.  These poppers come on  
eBay every now and then.  I have bought three for less than $20.00  
each including shipping.  However, our recent very dry and hot  
weather, and I hope not climate, prohibits outside burning.
      I am now off to roast in a wok on the gas kitchen range.  Now,  
to decide what to roast.
      Jim
On Jul 19, 2006, at 1:01 PM, Lynne Biziewski wrote:
<Snip>

26) From: Ed Needham
Tilting causes the beans to rotate in a vertical rotation if the air is from 
the bottom, increasing the agitation.  I've never tried tilting with a side 
air popper.
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"
ed at homeroaster dot com
(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************

27) From: Lynne
Dan -
Thank you so much. I roasted three coffees two days ago - Bolivia Org. 
Peaberry De Montana (which I am drinking right now - pure heaven!), 
Tanzania AA Songea (haven't tried this one yet), and Ethiopia 
Yirgacheffe dry process.
I was able to get so much more control - since the electric stove keeps 
regulating the temperature by turning the element off and on (I have a 
flat-top glass type, which is a bit better than the standard electric), 
I kept the temperature rather high, and simply took the WhirlyPop off 
the element to control the temp. (If I come across a propane stove at a 
yard sale, I'll get one).
It's been so hot here (not as bad as the midwest, I'm sure, but still 
hot - and humid, like a steam bath). But I managed to get three batches 
finished, despite the heat. I only did the 2/3 cup with the first batch, 
though - that's only going to give me enough coffee for a couple of 
days, the way we (translate - "I") have been drinking lately. I found 
with the larger (~8 ounces) batches, the temp. was reduced more after I 
put the beans in the pot, but it didn't seem to effect the final roast. 
My real problem is this $#@% electric stove.
O.K., one of my poor dogs is looking at me like he's going to have to 
cross his legs permanently - I better leave my coffee obsession (for now).
Thanks again.
Lynne
Dan Kellgren wrote:
<Snip>

28) From: Lynne
My mistake - I did try the Tanzania yesterday, but haven't tried the 
Ethiopian (thought that perhaps it should have a longer rest). Wasn't 
crazy about the Tanzania. However, when I was roasting it, my instincts 
were telling me that I should have gone a tiny bit longer. Don't know 
why I felt that, as I am just starting this roasting thing - but I was 
really trying to avoid roasting too far, as I did before.
What I did was mix it with some Costa Rica Decaf (I over roasted this 
baby, which I now know is easy to do w/decafs). The blend came out quite 
good - not Cafe Nirvana, to be sure, but better than any none 
homeroasted I've had, for certain).
Lynne
Lynne wrote:
<Snip>

29) From: Dan Kellgren
Lynne -
So glad to hear you had some successful roasts!  Ironically, I too don't
care for the Tanzania Peaberries.  My favorites are the Sumatra Classic
Mandehling (sp?), Rwanda, Sidamo, and the Harar Horse ones.  I'm enjoying
the Sidamo right now - man is this good coffee!
Well - keep tweaking your profile and try to move to a gas stove when you
can.
Best wishes,
Dan
On 7/22/06, Lynne  wrote:
<Snip>

30) From: Lynne
<Snip>
NO - no - do not tempt me! I already have several months worth of green 
coffee here...
Lynne

31) From: raymanowen
"...the wok and the HG/DB are looking better every day."
There are many that roast in no other way than a hot air popcorn popper.
Their results are superb.
If you set up a wok or HG/DB for roasting, you'll improve nearly every day.
Maybe your results might be superber...
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa
Got Grinder?

32) From: Justin Marquez
On 7/27/06, raymanowen  wrote:
<Snip>
The only two things that pushed me out of popper roasting were the
small batch sizes and a really fast roast time.  Now, IF the fast
roast time weren't so hard for me to control (and I admit it, I'm
lazy... I never really worked on slowing the poppers), three popper
roast batches back-to-back is almost as much as my normal HG/DB batch
size.  9-12 min w/ 240 gr in the HG/DB vs  3 times 3-4 minutes for 80
gr popper batches is about a wash, timewise.  I just felt that the
fast roast was too hard to get the same exact roast level each time.
Of course, I don't get EXACTLY the same roast level each time with
HG/DB either, but I feel more in control, anyways, whether I am or
not.
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music,
Justin Marquez
(Snyder, TX... but only for about another 6 weeks)


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