This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Ok I am getting a better Idea of the winding road I am getting ready to venture down (or through the looking glass -a.k.a. butter tray- as it would seem) Yes I am still out to sea and now dying to get back home to try this out... Not too many more days. I am going to cut and paste various lines from the last digest with questions to follow. 1.) Timing is very important, forget temperature measurement. Let the first roast continue until you see divots flying out of the popper, that is probably the darkest one should need to roast. Write down everything you see and hear with the times of occurrence. What are "divots?" So do I have to flip a coin to go with timing or sight/smell? 2.) The 'Hold for Harvey" choice under shipping works for 12 pounds of coffee, only coffee, not other supplies, if I have it correctly. Not only is it wonderfully inexpensive shipping, but it is FAST. Is the "hold for Harvey" for 10 or 12 pounds only or for everything up to that? I'm kinda confused about that... Tom can you help with the explanation of this? 3.) You can roast, cool and brew immediately. Many of us do, at least an initial pot. You'll know it's good right away. YIPPIE!!!!! (not really the patient type when it comes to coffee or trying something new) 4.) Whatever you use the most, and can be most consistent with. Although, Espresso is a completely different can of worms. You might want to consider a Swiss Gold one cup. They are portable, Simple, and make it very easy to make one cup for testing. Ok so don't start out with espresso got it! What is a Swiss Gold one cup (My access to the internet is very limited as we are out to sea so just google-ing it is not easy. Price range/availability? 5.) Allowing 2 to 4 days rest will improve the flavor and body of most coffees to some degree But I think I read that coffee is "fresh for 5 days" so resting for 4 and not fresh past 5 leaves you with 1 "perfect" day per batch? I know I am getting ahead of myself as I haven't even made my first batch or been able to order beans yet... but my relenting urge to have that perfect cup one day has already got me going. Once again thank you all and I hope my submissions aren't rambling or getting to be a bother... Thanks for the support (we all APPRECATE it more than you know!) Dennis True FC1(SW) Dennis W. True USS Dwight D Eisenhower(CVN69) CS-5 DSPO CS Dept CC CS Dept TRANO Duty Sec 1 CS E6 S/L CS Dept Mentorship Coordinator "Life Liberty and the pursuit of all who threaten it..."
on 07/26/2006 07:56 PM True, Dennis W. FC1 (CVN69) said the following: <Snip> <Snip> Little roundish flakes that fly off coffee that has been roasted too dark. <Snip> I would strongly suggest going with smell. Sight can be misleading, as different beans are actually at different roast levels at the same colour. Plus you like Africans, and the wilder Africans often vary greatly in colour within the same roast. Timing is tempting, but it'll hold you back. I started roasting by time, and was much happier when I started concentrating on smell. <Snip> <Snip> Up to 12 pounds of green coffee only, although you can add bags. <Snip> <Snip> Tom carries them for US$10.95. http://sweetmarias.com/prod.swissgold.shtml,down the page a bit. I suspect you might find one very handy on ship, too. It is a small, study plastic gadget with a built in swiss gold filter that fits on top of a mug. You put in your fresh ground coffee, heat your water to just before boiling, and pour it in. It makes an excellent, clean cup of coffee. If you are careful about consistency in your coffee grinding and water temp, you can compare coffees and rest times easily with one. I carry one when I travel, and keep a few on hand to give to friends who swoon admiringly at my homeroasted coffee to get them started on the path to Seriously Good Coffee. <Snip> <Snip> One of the great surprises of starting to roast my own coffee was tasting how some coffees vary greatly over time. I'm fond of the Indonesians, and they are perhaps a bit more prone to this, although I've noticed it with some Africans, too. So, I don't know about "fresh for 5 days." Some are drinkable at 5 days. Some aren't. Some are superb at 12 hours. Some don't come into their own until 48. Some become nearly undrinkable after 2 days. Which is another argument for drinking a bit right away, then continuing to drink it for a few more days. <Snip> What you get will be better than what you can buy. Really, it isn't that difficult, although if you of an engineering bent, you'll find plenty of scope for nitpicking, measurement and modification. Be well, Lissa -- Our whole American way of life is a great war of ideas, and librarians are the arms dealers selling weapons to both sides. James Quinn, WESTPAC/NOCALL joint meeting, 1990
Lissa wrote: <Snip> Actually, roasted to fast. <Snip> also depends on your equipment un - modded FR's poppers ect will roast in the 4 to 6 minute range so 30 seconds makes a difference. Also, the outside tends to be darker than the inside. <Snip> Depends on how you roast. I've know got to the point that I don't need to rest my coffee to be drinkable. But they can change taste over time. Coffe should be 'CSA standards fine' for the first week. <Snip> -- There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened.
Dennis, We'll do some roast and brew demos when you get home (including espresso) and get you started down this evil road of homeroasting, but in the meantime I will try to answer your questions. <Snip> I don't know what the source of this statement about flying divots came from, but I have never noticed a divot fly from a popper. Divots are little chunks of the bean that tend to pop off during roasting leaving a little hole (or divot) in the surface of the coffee bean. I always thought that they were caused by roasting too quickly from beginning of roast to 1st crack, but I've noticed divots in roasts that I am certain were not roasted too quickly (in the RK Drum even). I think Centrals tend to divot more than Africans and Indonesians, but that may be my imagination. In any event, they're mostly cosmetic and don't effect the taste of the coffee. As for timing/temperature/sight/smell - when using an unmodded popper you're probably going to reach end of roast by 6 minutes. The one mod that I did to one of my poppers was to run a temp probe down into the beans from the cover. It worked fine till I broke it. I didn't notice any difference in my roasts without it. Sight/smell/timing and LUCK. The worst roast I ever did in a popper was better than the best coffee I ever bought from Starbucks or Gevalia. <Snip> This shipping method is actually Flat Rate Priority. Tom has found that the box will hold up to 12 pounds of most green coffee beans so that is what he has limited the order to. I think Monsooned beans are the exception since they take up more space. The cloth bags that SM offers may be added to the order. <Snip> I almost always brew immediately after roasting (within an hour usually). I have found that most coffees taste good at this point - some better than others. Then most go into a "funk" for a while. I often roast in the afternoon, try it, then brew that same coffee the next morning and subsequent mornings till I run out. <Snip> Again, when you get home we can demo different brewing methods. I have 3 or 4 FP's, Chemex, Vac pots, Aero Press, and a TechniVorm. I use the TV daily because of it's ease of use. My favorite will probably always be the Chemex. I don't have a SwissGold one cup, but for 1 cup brewing I think the AeroPress is hard to beat. I think it might be especially useful while you are at sea on that flat top. It is easy to use, makes a good cup, and cleanup is a snap. The grounds end up in a puck that you just drop into the trash and you don't have to worry about mucking up the plumbing and backing up all the heads on the O3 level (an inside joke for all you landlubbers). <Snip> Last Wednesday (8 days ago) I roasted 2 lbs. of Panama Carmen Estate 18+ to take to a local gourmet group dinner Saturday night. It tasted nice minutes after roasting. Thursday morning (about 18 hours post roast) it was OK, but nothing great (but still nice). Friday's morning coffee put a smile on my face - I was gonna have bragging rights Saturday night! (It was a hit at the gourmet club dinner btw) It's 8 days since roasting I've been drinking this every morning since and it is fresh - fresh enough that I would be proud to serve it to anyone on this list. I keep it vac sealed in a mason jar which I think extends freshness a few days, but I think most properly roasted coffees are good for up to a week in an air tight jar. Ginny claims that some of the best coffee she ever had was some that got "lost" for about 10 days. I think it was an Ethiopian and she claims to have pulled God shots from it after finding this "lost" coffee. Popper loads are only about 4oz, so it won't be around long enough to get stale. Don' worry about this. I know I <Snip> Thanks for being out there for us. I'm looking forward to us getting together when you get home. Sail safe and God Speed! Java Jerry <Snip>
here is a question i haven't seen asked, can you cool your beans to quickly, or, the quicker the better.
I like Ike- What are "divots?" - only in Golf, but a similar thing happens when a tiny button pops out of the surface of a roasting bean. It's coffee. Avast, ya Swab! When you use a popper, forget about someone's hard numbers because the numbers are all interdependent- change something about the roast, and everything else follows along, changed. I would suggest starting out with 1/4 cup of green beans from one package o= f Sweet Maria's green coffee. Stick to this bean for several roasts and sampl= e brews, so you can experience the difference your roasting technique can make. Short of setting it on fire, I don't think you can ruin coffee you obtain from Sweet Maria's. If you can do all the roasting on the flight deck at the stern, you won't incite mutiny in any of the mess halls. You'll find it's Hell when you have something 5,000 other guys never had before, but they can Smell It!! And you can't get away from the blackguards= . Roast aft. On the flight deck. Maintain good order. If the Commander smells it, you'll probably make a port call at Oakland and send a detail ashore to pick up a "Naval Sampler", 50+ Kilos of anything To= m has approved. If you're willing to be the liaison, I'm sure you might even garner some serious roasting equipment. You guys are worth it! Cheers -RayO, aka Opa! "You don't know what you can get away with until you try." - -Colin Powell On 7/26/06, True, Dennis W. FC1 (CVN69) wrote: <Snip> ould <Snip> hat <Snip> ou <Snip> y. <Snip> g <Snip> to <Snip> y <Snip> e <Snip> day <Snip>
On 7/27/06, raymanowen wrote: <Snip> You could ruin it three ways that I can think of (i.e., have done myself at one time...).... 1) Severe under-roast 2) Severe over-roast 3) Drop it on the ground during cooling The margin for "better coffee than you can buy at the store" falls almost anywhere between the margins of problems 1 & 2. Safe Journeys and Sweet Music Justin Marquez (Snyder, TX)
"...can you cool your beans too quickly..." I say you can't. When they get going, especially in 2nd Crack, I've felt like opening up on them with the Cardox fire extinguisher. I wanted to stop, but it was going Full Ahead! Look carefully at pictures of the Diedrich and other large roasters- the cooling tray has a perforated bottom and pulls cooling air down through the Hot beans. I have a similar setup for cooling, but on the scale of a big roaster, my cooling blower would be 12 feet in diameter. It's lightning fast cooling. If you want the roast to stop, take the heat out of the beans. Right when you want to stop. When do you put on the brakes if a child runs out in front of you? Oh- let's slow down- I think we'll miss him, or STOP! Cheers -RayO, aka Opa! Got Grinder?
I certainly have no scientific data to back me up on this, but when a coffee bean is at or approaching 2nd crack, molecular changes are happening which are caused by heat. Quick lowering of temperture of the bean stops the roasting process and preserves the roast level that you had attained when you stopped the roast rather than letting the beans continue to roast in their own heat. I cool my beans over a 1620 cfm fan ..see at..http://turbobeancooler.freehosting.net/They cool down almost instantly depending on the amount of beans and the ambient temperature. I think for a pound or less, my turbobeancooler is a bit of overkill, but I have never noticed any adverse effects caused by quick cooling. JavaJerry RK Drum roasting in Chesapeake, VA Scjgb3 wrote: <Snip>
I love it! At first, I thought this was some elaborate wooden contraption you put together - well, it's an elaborate cardboard contraption - and it's something I could put together myself. Thank you (I'm getting kinda tired of the Floating Chaff design that has overtaken my kitchen... Lynne Jerry Procopio wrote: <Snip>
Just for grins, Justin, I've done a roast purposely taking a sample at Stage 1), 1a), b, c... all the way to Stage 2). Since the batch was getting smaller, the roast really started zipping along with the HG. Stage 2) was ashen, I admit. Just like the pictures- black and oily. But Charbux has their following. Don't sword fight with Zorro. But mine isn't even a Wilkinson sword! UNCLE! Stage 1) can be rescued, even days after the fact. It hadn't hit 1st Crack but more heat and more time put a couple/ few snaps of 2nd, which I like. This experiment was with some of my "Panama Berlina." Purpose bought 15# on the 'Bay, and I have 5# bag + a few oz left. It's 15 months old, and an 800g batch size just squeeked out a couple snaps of 2nd and smoke after a 30 minute roast. Three days later, it has The Flavor and Aroma. Stage 3) - Me, too- I had worked to exhaustion for 12 hours. Came home, roasted 400g of nice Yirg. Hand went limp when I picked up the mixer bowl to dump smoking beans into cooler. Made me crazy*. [*Good One, Ray!] I hate it when that happens- Grrr. Cheers -RayO, aka Opa! Got Grinder?
<Snip> <Snip> Nah, #3 usually just means more work picking it up! (Though does depend on the condition of the ground) BTW, #3 very similar to part of the brew preparation process: pouring beans into grinder hopper with hopper lid still on:-) Debi told me she added a new brew preparation twist a few mornings ago: pouring the just ground coffee into the grinder hopper! Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Thanks Lynne, As a bonus, when the beans are cool, I remove the basket, tip the fan box on it's side and place the basket over the exhaust hole. It blows up thru the beans thus blowing the chaff out of the basket. Totally chaff free coffee beans. Jerry Lynne wrote: <Snip>
Debi- Don't "...added a new brew preparation twist a few mornings ago: pouring the just ground coffee into the grinder hopper!" Cheers -RayO, aka Opa! Enjoying Panama Project coffee as I Typewrong-