HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Newbie with FreshRoast Plus 8 - LONG Roast Times!!! (48 msgs / 1703 lines)
1) From: David Morgenlender
I've been reading this list for awhile now & have learned a lot!  Today I
roasted beans for the first time, shortly after my new FreshRoast Plus 8 =
arrived
from Sweet Maria's, along with a Sampler, and 5 other decaf & espresso =
beans I
had ordered.
I used the Brazil Cerrado 5th Place Fazenda Pantano beans from the =
Sampler.  The
first try took a LONG time, and I didn't think I heard First Crack, or =
the beans
looked done.  But it had taken so long I figured the roast must be done, =
since
this is supposed to be a roaster which roasts too fast!  I ground & =
brewed these
beans & ended up with slightly discolored water ... the beans weren't =
close to
being done.
So I did some research online & figured maybe I had low voltage, so the =
roast
would take longer.  I do have the AC running, although I wouldn't think =
it would
have much impact, except when cycling on.  I'm also using a 10' extension=
 cord,
so the roaster can sit on the stove, under the vent hood.
I decided I would roast through first crack until City+ (as recommended =
for
these beans) however long it took.  I increased the quantity of beans to =
speed
up the roast ... 3 flat scoops, instead of 2.  The beans kept getting =
browner,
but I could hear no cracking, I was going to stop the roast, but kept =
deciding
"30 seconds longer".  Then I heard it ... popcorn cracking sound, =
although not
nearly as loud as I expected;  if this was first crack, I don't know how =
I'll
hear second crack!  Anyway I kept waiting until no more cracking, but it =
didn't
happen, so after a few minutes the cracks were less frequent, so I gave =
it
another 30 seconds & set the roaster to cool.  I had been roasting for =
***17
MINUTES*** !!!
From the color of the beans, I think I ended up with a Full City, not a=
 City+,
roast.  I figured this wasn't too bad for a first drinkable (hopefully!) =
roast.
I ground some beans & brewed up a pot in my Presto drip machine.  Now, =
here I am
having drank much too much caffeine ... but this is GOOD COFFEE!!!  And =
it's
even gotten better as it's cooled down.  I just about never drink black =
coffee,
but this coffee is so good, that's what I'm doing!  I can't wait to try =
the
beans after a rest period!
So that leaves me with some questions ...
1.  Any suggestions for reducing that 17 minute roast time???
2.  What do you think would be an ideal rest period for these beans?
3.  Is it really possible to hear second crack on this machine?
Thanks for your help, past & future!
Dave
==========================
==========================
=====
Dave Morgenlender
e-mail: dmorgen
==========================
==========================
=====

2) From: miKe mcKoffee
Before any realistic help/ideas possible on decreasing your roast times must
know your line voltage with the FR running including FR heater. You cannot
'assume' it's even close to 120v. Highly likely it's not. 
FWIW your roasts would probably be better balanced, especially FC and
lighter, 13 to 15 minute range than the more typical 5 to 7 minute FR times!
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
<Snip>

3) From: miKe mcKoffee
Oh, and congratulations on your first successful roast!
miKe
<Snip>
 Now, here I am
<Snip>

4) From: rnkyle
1.  Any suggestions for reducing that 17 minute roast time???
David welcome to wonderfull world of home roasting.
Sounds like either your line voltage is really low or you have defective 
Fresh Roast.
Check your line voltage out the end of your extension cord. then out of the 
outlet itself. Should be at least 117 to 120. Fresh Roasts should roast very 
fast unless you take steps to lengthen out the roast time. And extension 
cord is one of the steps to help lengthen the roast times.
2.  What do you think would be an ideal rest period for
 these beans?
Rest times vary from bean to bean. I rest a minimum of 48 hrs. on any bean 
and up to 96 hrs on some.
3.  Is it really possible to hear second crack on this
machine?
first and second crack should be very audible with the fresh roast.
First is loud popping like popcorn
second is more subdued like Rice Krispies in milk or crinkleing celopane.
RK

5) From: Dennis & Marjorie True
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
That is a great description of second crack!!!!
Dennis
*"Searching for nirvana one roast at a time..."*
<Snip>

6) From: raymanowen
David, congrats on First Roast with the FR! It's quite a capable little
roaster, and can teach you a LOT.
The sample assortment is always great coffee, but not for a startup
situation. If you  started out with at least Two [or, Five!] pounds of a
single coffee, you could note the changes caused by preparation alterations.
Preparation is what you do to get the Nectar of the Beans. You will find
that every step you take, from roasting style, resting/maturing/aging,
Grinding, to the specific brew style and strength you use, and even the
temperature at which you drink it, has a definite correlation and "sweet
spot" for each of these highly characteristic specialty coffees.
If you think you're going to "Hit the Jackpot," and always brew the same
Heavenly Cup, that's Big Coffee thinking. Specific brands always taste the
same. They can't tolerate any outstanding coffees in their blends- their
clientele would mutiny.
"Where's our Dreck? We want our Dreckig Bilge Water, so we can add sugar,
cream, syrups and kindling wood to it!"
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
Where's the coffee?

7) From: Vicki Smith
Congrats, welcome to the Noob Division of the SM Home Roasting 
Community. I roast with an IR2, not a Fresh Roast, but there are some 
general kinda things that might transfer. I haven't been doing this very 
long, so if I screw up, I'm betting someone will jump right in.
If you will always need to use an extension cord, count that as one of 
your constants, but do make sure you have a good cord, not an old one 
that has been lying about and possibly gotten damaged or crimped along 
the way. You may find you need to change cords, if for example, you end 
up wanting to lengthen your roast time at some point, but for now, you 
might want to start with a cord that is *just right* for the distance 
from the outlet.
If your stove has an outlet on it, that is often one of the more *pure* 
outlets in your house, I'm told. It has something to do with it coming 
off of your 220 line for the stove.
I would turn off the AC if you can--just for those few minutes you are 
roasting. If it does that cycling shtuff, it's a variable you don't need 
to add into the mix.
Keep a notebook, so when you do indeed get a wonderful product, you 
actually know what you did right. Pay attention to all of your 
senses--you will want to note not just colour of the beans and the 
sound, but also be paying attention to how the smoke looks and smells.
When I get a new bean, I roast it twice the same day--once at Tom's 
recommended level, and then another one that it in line with what I have 
read here from some of the folks who seem to have different preferences. 
Beginning at 48 hours, I do a side by side single cup (I use a moka pot) 
with the goal of tasting it at 2-6 days. So far, I have never had coffee 
hanging around any longer then that. I usually have something else 
roasted for the big pots when I am testing a new bean. Anyway, by the 
time I have had the same coffee at different roast levels, and rested 
for varying amounts of time, I begin to feel I am getting a handle on 
that particular bean. I sometimes find I need to do some grinder 
adjustment along the way, too.
I am not drinking espresso (yet) btw. But if I had the ability to pull a 
   predictably good shot, I would probably test with that instead of 
making the stove top espresso I use now for testing.
I think everyone does this a bit differently, and my sense is that you 
will find your own way to figure out what works for you.
Again, welcome to the wonderful and infuriating world of home roast.
Vicki
David Morgenlender wrote:
 > Today I
<Snip>

8) From: John F Coffey
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Hi David,
Welcome to the club.
As others have stated, I would really check out your line voltage and  
see where it is at.
The second thing I would do is get a scale.  Not having the right  
amount of beans in the roaster can make a dramatic change.  I got  
used to using the scale and the other night the battieries died.  I  
managed to mangle a roast quite nicely by not measuring the beans  
correctly.  Half were green and the other half was well on it;s way  
to being charcoal.
Enjoy your new hobby/Addiction...
And we will be here to help as much as we can.
==John
--------------
   John F. Coffey
   Email - john
   P.O. Box 5472				
   Bellingham, WA  98227
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David Morgenlender wrote:> Today I roasted beans for the first time, =

Hi David,
Welcome to the = club.
As = others have stated, I would really check out your line voltage and see = where it is at.
The second thing I would do = is get a scale. Not having the right amount of beans in the roaster = can make a dramatic change. I got used to using the scale and the = other night the battieries died. I managed to mangle a roast quite = nicely by not measuring the beans correctly. Half were green and the = other half was well on it;s way to being charcoal.
Enjoy your new = hobby/Addiction...
And we will be here to help = as much as we can.
==John --------------John F. = CoffeyEmail - johnP.O. Box 5472 = = Bellingham, = WA98227


= = --Apple-Mail-1-698796875--

9) From: Leo Zick
i have some questions based on your post, if you dont mind:
1. i get the extension cord thing but i dont think a few volts makes a  
difference, does it?  i think turning the machine on and off would  
work better (im new to roasting too, only a few under my belt, and i  
cant get any longer than 6mins yet).  ill take some voltage  
measurements with and without a cord to see.
2.  if your stove has a 220line, that would mean its electric.  why  
would you tap into a 220 to provide 110 power to outlets? i dont think  
that meets code.  i think maybe by 'pure' you mean there are typically  
dedicated outlets found in kitchens, as opposed to other rooms, where  
lines can be run to multiple areas, since the demands arent as great,  
and no gfci is required.
3.  you use a moka pot but dont drink espresso?  i grew up on espresso  
in moka pots in an old school italian household, and ive never seen  
them used for anything but!  how do you make 'brown coffee' on a moka  
pot?  id love to know!!  maybe you are referring to moka pot coffee as  
'black' or 'demitasse', and espresso as coming from a pump driven  
machine?  thanks :)
Quoting Vicki Smith :
<Snip>

10) From: Vicki Smith
Leo Zick wrote:
<Snip>
Yes, a few volts can make a difference--that is why the whole add length 
to an extension cord dance works. I wouldn't want to turn my roaster on 
and off, but then I have an IR2 and have roast profiles on the go. I 
could not just stop and resume in the same place.
<Snip>
My electric stove has an outlet on the back that works off the 220 
outlet I plug the stove into. The wiring in the stove takes care of 
that--no mods (or code violations) necessary. Even gas stoves though 
often have electric outlets on them and have some 110 things like oven 
lights as part of them.
<Snip>
I don't call the wonderful coffee I get from my moka pot espresso. I 
know it's often called stove top espresso, but I differentiate between 
the two (as do most of us, I think). It's all about the pressure ;)
vicki

11) From: Leo Zick
i think im missing something, so you plug your 110v roaster into a  
220v stove outlet?? why are you suggesting to use the line from the  
stove?  or are you saying your stove has an outlet built into it?   
wow, ive never seen this before, i may have to look into it..
Quoting Vicki Smith :
<Snip>

12) From: Vicki Smith
Every electric stove I have ever owned has had 110 outlets either on the 
"rim" or on the back panel--where the oven dial is. My gas stoves have 
had them too--as I said, if you've got oven lights, you've got 110 going on.
v
Leo Zick wrote:
<Snip>

13) From: Robert Avery
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Don't forget that the Europeans use the 220v system for their standard =
voltage ... He should have plenty of voltage I would think. Whole =
different ballgame over there. Later, Bob

14) From: Robert Avery
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Also forgot to mention ... not sure but they do have to use an adapter =
to be able to use standard 110 voltage items on their 220 volt system. A =
good example of that is ... most men's shavers have a small switch on =
the back to convert the shaver from 110 volts usage to 220 volts. The =
also speak differently ... you might have noticed ... just kidding ... =
later, Bob

15) From: Leo Zick
ive never owned electric, and those that ive seen didnt have an outlet  
on it.  every gas stove ive ever owned has a cord for 110/120 power  
used for the spark and display/lights. there are no additional outlets  
that you can plug into on them.
interesting approach, i guess you electric folks are luckier!
this begs me to ask though, if you roast on a stove, or nearby, doesnt  
your kitchen fill with chaff and smoke?
Quoting Vicki Smith :
<Snip>

16) From: Leo Zick
AHHHHHHH. didnt notice the out of country signature in her posts. :p
sorry for that, im still learning faces.
Quoting Robert Avery :
<Snip>
om>
<Snip>
marias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast>
<Snip>
as.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings>
<Snip>
marias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast>
<Snip>
as.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings>
<Snip>

17) From: Michael Wascher
In the US, 220V is 3 wires, two hot and a neutral. That and a safety ground
is what enters your house at the fuse box.
Connect from hot to hot and you get 220V (the two phases are 180 degrees out
of phase). Connect from either hot to neutral and it's 110V. At the fuse box
the 110V circuits are distributed on the two sides (the 2 hot lines) in an
attempt to balance the load.
No "code violation" about it.
Many countries started with 110V systems.
Most other countries switched to 220V. Two wires, a hot & a neutral with
220V across them (and possibly a safety ground AKA earth ground). Twice the
voltage so half the current required to do a given amount of work. That
means you can reduce the size of your wires or leave them the same for less
voltage drop in the lines -- in both cases a cost saving.
The US didn't because we already had a large infrastructure of appliances (
e.g. refrigerators) that would have been made useless. Instead the present
scheme that provides both 110V & 220V using 3 wires was implemented.
On 8/9/06, Leo Zick  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
"There is nothing new under the sun but there are lots of old things we
don't know." --  Ambrose Bierce

18) From: Vicki Smith
David (the OP) has an MIT address, so I assume he is in the US. I am in 
Canada, not Europe. The two countries share the same power conventions. 
In fact, I am using a US made electric stove in my upstairs kitchen, and 
have a Canadian one downstairs. Both have 110 outlets on board--the only 
noticeable difference is that the downstairs one has centigrade markers, 
in a addition to the F ones, on the oven dial.
In response to another of Leo's questions about smoke--David said he was 
roasting under the stove's exhaust fan. I wish my exhaust fan was 
actually vented to the outside, but it isn't. It will be when I redo the 
kitchen. I bought an IR2 because of the exhaust kit that lets me throw 
the dryer vent thingee out the kitchen window for smoke control.
I've also roasted in my fireplace, with the flue open. That worked just 
fine too. It's too cold here for a big portion of the year to be able to 
roast outside.
Vicki
Robert Avery wrote:
<Snip>

19) From: David Morgenlender
Thanks everybody for the welcomes & suggestions.  I'm going to try to =
take some
voltage measurements later today & will provide more info.
BTW, the stove is electric, but unfortunately has no electric outlet.
Re the 110v vs 220v thing ... I'm not an electrician by any means.  I =
believe
power coming in from the pole is 220v, which consists of 2 110v parts of
differing polarity.  So a 220v line, which is used for appliances =
requiring a
lot of power (e.g. electric dryers & electric stoves), uses the entire =
220v from
the pole.  The more typical 110v lines tap into 1 half of the 220v from =
the
pole.  Presumably, a 110v electric outlet on a stove is simply tapping =
into 1/2
of the 220v circuit provided to the stove.  Please feel free to correct =
me, if
I'm wrong, and certainly to provide accurate terminology!
Dave
On Tue, 08 Aug 2006 19:48:04 -0400, you wrote:
<Snip>
I
<Snip>
 arrived
<Snip>
beans I
<Snip>
Sampler.  The
<Snip>
the beans
<Snip>
 since
<Snip>
brewed these
<Snip>
close to
<Snip>
roast
<Snip>
it would
<Snip>
extension cord,
<Snip>
for
<Snip>
 speed
<Snip>
browner,
<Snip>
deciding
<Snip>
although not
<Snip>
 I'll
<Snip>
 didn't
<Snip>
it
<Snip>
***17
<Snip>
City+,
<Snip>
 roast.
<Snip>
here I am
<Snip>
it's
<Snip>
coffee,
<Snip>
the
<Snip>
==========================
======
<Snip>
==========================
======
<Snip>
unsvbscribes) go to =http://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings==========================
==========================
=====
Dave Morgenlender
e-mail: dmorgen
==========================
==========================
=====

20) From: Leo Zick
Most homes that ive seen are not wired (downstream of the panel) with  
3 wire 220v cabling.  they are 2 wire 110v. Dryers and stoves (where  
gas isnt common) have dedicated 3 wire lines, with dedicated breakers,  
run to those specific outlets/appliances.
It would be odd (hence my original comment) to tap into this dedicated  
3 wire line, which has sized breaker on it for that specific  
appliance, use only 2 of the wires, and run it to another outlet, or  
array of outlets, further downstream.
kitchen counters typically have outlets spaced 24" apart, with GFIs  
(this is a code, varying by state).  Like I said earlier, this power  
can be more 'clean', since it normally isnt distributed across  
multiple rooms, or feed lights, etc; but are specifically dedicated  
for kitchen outlets, from the high demand of counter appliances.
using a built in outlet on an electric stove is obviously a different  
story, one which ive never seen, but on my trips to places with  
electric stoves, not only do i try to avoid cooking on them (its an  
odd switch from gas to electric), but i dont think as a houseguest i  
should be crawling around inspecting their stove outlets :p
its unfortunate we never adopted 220power (as well as a good gsm  
network!).  cost savings like you mentiobed, and better power too.  
things charge faster and last longer.
guess weve gotten off topic, sorry for this.  back to coffee!
Quoting Michael Wascher :
<Snip>
d
<Snip>
ut
<Snip>
ox
<Snip>
e
<Snip>
s
<Snip>
(
<Snip>

21) From: Robert Avery
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Michael .... 220 in the US is two wire .... Here is how it goes. 220 =
volt is hot both wires. If you plan to use a 110 volt connection then =
you have to use 3 wire .... typically the black and white are used as =
110 v and the black and red are used for the 220 v connection. Ground is =
something completely different than a neutral white wire. I know they go =
to the same place in the box but the two are different. The machine or =
equipment ground is either bare copper or green color. You can use =
standard 110 wire .... 12-2 with ground for straight 220 volt ... but =
you need to label the white wire with red tape at both ends to signify =
that both are hot. We are the ones behind the times in this country .... =
we waste a lot of wire here running both 110v and 220 v circuits. Hope =
this helps Bob

22) From: Vicki Smith
Our house has four 220 dedicated lines in the box. We are using three of 
them for appliances that need them. The fourth line we "split" to give 
us some additional 110 lines in the room we use as our office. We have 4 
computers, and all the associated accouterments running off the lines we 
(actually our electrician) created in this way.
When we remodel, we will piggy back another box onto our current one. We 
need more power in the kitchens so we can do things like run a microwave 
and a toaster at the same time, on the same wall. Older houses (and ours 
is just 30 years old) were not designed for all of these modern 
conveniences.
vicki
Robert Avery wrote:
<Snip>

23) From: Leo Zick
just to reiterate:
one hot (black), one neutral (white), and ground (green or bare): 110V  
circuit.
two hots (black and white), no neutral, and ground: 220V circuit. (not  
typically used in the US)
two hots (black and red), neutral (white), and ground: 220V circuit +  
neutral, and/or two 110V circuits with a common neutral.
sounds like bob is an electrician with a sense of good practice, its  
rare to see people use colored tape! :)
Quoting Robert Avery :
<Snip>
om>
<Snip>
n
<Snip>
en
<Snip>
en
<Snip>
marias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast>
<Snip>
as.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings>
<Snip>

24) From: David Clarke
<Snip>
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
Hi,
I have the Fresh Roast 8 and the problem I had right at the beginning was
that the fan was too powerful  there are instructions on the website on ho=
w
to move the contact on the coil inside the Fresh Roast which will reduce th=
e
fan speed and cause the roast to be hotter and therefore shorter.  In my
growing experience I have also now gone to 3 measures of beans instead of
the recommended 2  which means you get 50% more output and I have found I
get an even roast and in 8 mins you can roast up to a FC+ or even Vienna
depending on the beans.  Another way to vary the output is to heat the Fres=
h
Roast for 2 mins before you put in the beans  this simulates a little more
the commercial roasting method of heating the drum or roaster before
allowing the beans to get into the roast.  By doing this, you also shorten
the time to the first crack, but I prefer not to do this if the beans are
quick roast  I find the Monkey blend does not need it  8 mins with 3
measures gets a FC+/Vienna roast which is perfect!
I have tried different electrical sockets, and they do make a little
difference, but varying the amount of beans and fixing the overactive fan i=
n
the Fresh Roast 8 are much more effective at giving you good results.
I also have a Diedrich IR12 commercial roaster, though that is a new
addition, but the Fresh Roast does a good job for small batches as a sample
roaster, which is how I have been using it.
Hope that helps
David

25) From: raymanowen
The <120v> available at a NEMA 15 outlet on an electric range would be a
very short branch off the electrical supply to the appliance.
If you measure the "220" volts at the appliance [stove] terminal block, it's
likely around 240v. (Mine is 242vrms) The wires to the stove, including the
panel circuit breaker, are heavy enough to carry 50 amperes, so very low
impedance.
You plug your roaster into a 120v outlet on the electric stove, and you have
a very solid 120v. The 120 volt line to the outlet must have some sort of
current interrupting device- fuse or breaker- so that a dead short at the
outlet can't burn up the wires in the appliance.
Look at the tags on your equipment. Nothing has been specified for 110 volts
for about the last 50 years- either supplying 110 volts or requiring 110v.
My Heathkit DX-40 amateur transmitter was even spec'd at 117vrms in 1958.
I've been denying it, but now that I think about the Heathkits, I did brew
coffee for myself in the glass Vaculator during my all-night Heathkit
building gigs. Long story- QED.
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
Got Grinder?
On 8/9/06, Leo Zick  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
"When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the
Wichita WurliTzer

26) From: Spencer Thomas
On 8/9/06, David Clarke  wrote:
<Snip>
This really depends on the vintage of your house.  If you've got an old
house, like mine, you may have a mix of wiring from (in my case) 70 years
old, up to recent.  Two outlets near each other could be very different in
their ability to supply the kind of current needed by a roaster.  If your
house was built during the aluminum wiring "craze", oxidation of the wire
contacts could significantly reduce the voltage supplied to the roaster (and
be a potential fire hazard).
You can get a (very rough) idea of whether turning on your roaster drops the
voltage by plugging an incandescent lamp into the other outlet of the pair.
Then turn on the roaster.  If the lamp dims, you're getting a voltage drop
to the roaster.  Find a different outlet, as that "missing" voltage is going
to heating up the wires and junctions between the breaker box and the
outlet.
=Spencer

27) From: Leo Zick
Opa,
110/120 and 220/240 is nomenclature.
its not as if we mixed them up with 208 or 480.
FYI- manufacturers ARE still required to list 110V on their nameplate  
data, as this is the minimum specified rating that the equipment can  
safely operate.
ive seen homes at the end of the line that get a steady 113V.  sucks  
for their appliances since they can tend to wear quicker, but they are  
still designed to work in that range.
re: your 50 year comment, i didnt realize google had been around so  
long to store such old queries:http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=110v+coffee+maker&=btnG=Search
not sure where this is going any more, but it isnt coffee related..  
sorry everyone!
Quoting raymanowen:
<Snip>
's
<Snip>
e
<Snip>
ve
<Snip>
ts
<Snip>

28) From: David Morgenlender
RayO,
<Snip>
alterations.
I'm discovering how right you are about that!  I wish I had thought of =
that
before, so I'd have those 2-5 lbs here now!
I do have 1 lb bags of 5 coffees I ordered, but they're all espresso or =
decaf.
I'll lookup those espressos to see if any are good for regular coffee.  =
(I don't
want to complicate things by going the espresso route, since there are =
already
too many variables there, even though I just do pseudo-espresso via a =
moka pot.)
Otherwise, maybe I'll try the decaf (I know I saw some messages =
describing how
to get a good decaf roast).
But, now I've got an excuse to order some more beans to get that 2-5 lbs!=
  Any
suggestions for a good bean for this ... presumably one that would =
provide a
good learning experience (& taste good!)?
Thanks.
Dave
==========================
==========================
=====
Dave Morgenlender
e-mail: dmorgen
==========================
==========================
=====

29) From: raymanowen
David, you can take this to the bank:
Go to the web page of The Sweet One and read Tom's notes about the coffees
offered and the roast recommendations. Pick one that has interesting flavors
clear up through the Vienna roast level, or that sounds interesting for any
reason
For a visual clue aside from Sweet Maria's, visit the well-known chain where
they charge Fourbucks. If you ever do that to your beans, you don't have the
touch yet.
Not to worry- another Ice Age is coming and you may have to drive in
inclement weather. Any Traction Aid could save the schwartz beans from being
a complete loss. Then the street sweeper would stop and look around,
thinking he had run over a *$ coffee kiosk.
If you use an espresso machine, any coffee you put in the filter is Espresso
Coffee, e-roast and all!
There is one WMD coffee I would suggest you give wide berth. Its Code Name
is Katzen Scheisse. I apologize for the Low Brow language, but I'm sure the
Katzen Scheisse is also NTG.
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
-- 
"When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the Mighty
Wichita (ex- NYC Paramount) WurliTzer- 1976

30) From: rnkyle
<Snip>
220v stove outlet?? why are you suggesting to use the line from the
stove?  or are you saying your stove has an outlet built into it?
wow, ive never seen this before, i may have to look into it..
Its only 220 to the oven, the top burners and any auxillary outlets on the 
top of the stove are 110.
but the line comming in is 220.
Ron

31) From: David Morgenlender
I just took some measurements.  The AC was not running, unlike at roast =
time.
With nothing plugged in, the voltage of the outlet pair:
  Top:					118.3v
  Bottom:				118.2v
  Extension Cord plugged into Bottom:	118.0v
Extension Cord plugged into Bottom, Roaster plugged into Extension Cord &=
 On:
  Top:					114.2v
Anything significant here?
Dave
On Tue, 8 Aug 2006 17:13:06 -0700, you wrote:
<Snip>
must
<Snip>
cannot
<Snip>
times!
<Snip>
must
<Snip>
enlightenment
<Snip>
before.
<Snip>
unsvbscribes) go to =http://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings==========================
==========================
=====
Dave Morgenlender
e-mail: dmorgen
==========================
==========================
=====

32) From: miKe mcKoffee
"Anything significant"? First you did not duplicate your roasting
conditions, AC not on. Even with AC off your voltage is obviously a bit low
with even no load. Didn't compare FR at the plug versus on the extension
cord so have no idea what effect the extension cord added for that 4v load
drop.  If you need to use an extension cord you may want to get a heavy duty
construction 12 gauge, and as short a length as possible, to minimize
additional voltage drop. Regardless seems your voltage 'taint too good.
Solution is a variac.
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
<Snip>

33) From: Leo Zick
118V is fine!  why does everyone think voltage HAS to be 120V no matter what=
?
it can range from ~110 to ~125.
dont know about from a roasting standard though...  :p
Quoting miKe mcKoffee :
<Snip>
w
<Snip>
ty
<Snip>
t
<Snip>
e.
<Snip>
==========================
======
<Snip>
==========================
======
<Snip>

34) From: miKe mcKoffee
Well let see. First under FR load voltage wasn't 118v but 114v (and not with
AC on as it was when roasting so who knows what roasting condition voltage
actually was) For example imagage that if at 120v a given roaster's heater
would reach 455f for a FC to Vienna roast or even darker with beans going
exothermic. If 114v that's 95% or 432f, chances are not even gonna make 2nd
crack... I guarantee a 6v difference to the heater can make a big
difference. (Been roasting with dual variable boosted voltage for 4 years or
so.) Though possibly not as big a difference as it sounds said FR is having.
17 minutes is extreme roast time for an FR. 
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
<Snip>

35) From: miKe mcKoffee
(replied on List 'cuz that's where it started and other's may benefit and/or
have input) 
<Snip>
<Snip>
No, I never said long roasts where a bad thing. OP's query was on seemingly
long roasts with his FR8.
That said for most coffees and brewing methods 17min air roast is too long
for my palate muting brightness too much. And longer than typical Sivetz air
roast FWIW. But not necessarily too long for others, especially if roasts
targeted for straight shots. 
 
<Snip>
You might be surprised how much major appliances running at your neighbors
or even down the street let alone appliances at your house affects voltage
at your various house outlets. Hot summer day with everyone running air
conditioners versus 3am can be a huge difference. For example I roast on a
dedicated 20A circuit and have about 2v less max voltage when just the
clothes dryer is running, obviously not on the same circuit. (still plenty
more than 120v max since using a variac:-)
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.

36) From: M. McCandless
Since I splitwired the FR+8, I've gotten much greater insight into the airflow-temp-volume relationship.
I start w/3.5 - 4 oz beans, max fan @ 18Vdc & heating element voltage 95 - 100Vac.
I need to rock the unit until bean mass ~ 350F.
This is near a stall point.
At ~350, the beans start to circulate freely (less water weight).
I slow the fan until beans just circulate - same as more mass.
The temp increases a little faster.
I bump the V up ~5Vac.
This ramps temp past 405f - 410f more quickly (1st crack).
The temp ramps slowly to finish (may require an additional 5Vac bump - depending on type bean).
It's all inter-related.
Best way to find what works best is experiment & ask questions.
This list is a golden resource,
Hope this helps,
McSparky
At 07:54 PM 8/10/2006 -0400, you wrote:
<Snip>

37) From: David Morgenlender
It sounds like you've rewired the FR+8 so the fan & heater are =
independent &
each goes to its own variac?
On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 22:27:54 -0700, you wrote:
<Snip>
airflow-temp-volume relationship.
<Snip>
 - 100Vac.
<Snip>
depending on type bean).
<Snip>
 what?
<Snip>
bit low
<Snip>
extension
<Snip>
load
<Snip>
heavy duty
<Snip>
good.
<Snip>
must
<Snip>
enlightenment
<Snip>
before.
<Snip>
and
<Snip>
==========================
=======
<Snip>
==========================
=======
<Snip>
unsvbscribes) go to =http://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>
unsvbscribes) go to =http://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings==========================
==========================
=====
Dave Morgenlender
e-mail: dmorgen
==========================
==========================
=====

38) From: David Morgenlender
Mike,
I've gotta say, I didn't expect anything significant to turn up with the
additional measurements you suggested ... but, wow!  Very interesting! =
...
With AC not running, nothing plugged in, the voltage of the outlet pair:
  Top:					122.4v
  Bottom:				122.5v
  Extension Cord plugged into Bottom:	122.6v
With AC not running, Extension Cord plugged into Bottom, Roaster plugged =
into
Extension Cord & On:
  Top:					118.7v
With AC not running, Roaster plugged into Bottom & On:
  Top:					118.7v
With AC RUNNING, nothing plugged in, the voltage of the outlet pair:
  Top:					119.3v
  Bottom:				119.3v
With AC RUNNING, Roaster plugged into Bottom & On:
  Top:					114.5v
So, this shows:
1.  Extension Cord is NOT an issue.
2.  Voltage is about 4v less for today's test than yesterday's test!
Yesterday's test was at 545PM, today's at 925AM.  Yesterday was somewhat =
hot at
humid at test time, today is cool & dry.  Perhaps neighbors' ACs were on,=
 even
though mine wasn't???  Or maybe just more electricity use that time of =
day.
3.  With AC on voltage dropped 3-4v!
It's conceivable voltage could be 7-8v less than now with everybody's AC =
on,
i.e. about 110v!
As much as I don't want to (wife will show "displeasure" at my spending =
money
for more equipment, let alone a heavy ugly metal box ... & I can't bribe =
her
with great coffee, since she doesn't drink any!), I guess I'll be buying =
a
variac.  Any suggestions for what & where?  The one SM sells?
Thanks for your help!
Dave
On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 16:47:16 -0700, you wrote:
<Snip>
low
<Snip>
load
<Snip>
duty
<Snip>
must
<Snip>
enlightenment
<Snip>
before.
<Snip>
==========================
==========================
=====
<Snip>
==========================
==========================
=====
<Snip>
unsvbscribes) go to =http://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings==========================
==========================
=====
Dave Morgenlender
e-mail: dmorgen
==========================
==========================
=====

39) From: Dennis & Marjorie True
Did you check the other current hogs in your 
house?...(fridge/washer/dryer/dishwasher etc...)
Dennis
David Morgenlender wrote:
<Snip>

40) From: Eddie Dove
You can take these same measurements all day and night and will probably
record different values each time.  It has a lot to do with where your home
is connected to the distribution system relative to the transformer that
serves your home.  And with that transformer, there are even more variables.
I can measure the voltage at my outlets and it rarely varies regardless of
present power consumption in my home or neighborhood.  Where I live, every
A/C system in the neighborhood has been on just about 24/7 since
February/March (cycling on/off relative to inside temperature and thermostat
settings).  My voltage is the same whether I measure it in the outlet or at
the end of a 100 foot, lighter guage extension cord.  This is because the
transformer resides on the property line in my back yard and it is fairly
new since called and ended up getting it replaced about 3 years ago.
The point is, it is a variable in the equation.  If you wish to exert some
control over the variable, then a variac may serve you well.
Respectfully,
Eddie
On 8/11/06, David Morgenlender  wrote:
<Snip>

41) From: David Morgenlender
Dennis,
Actually, the fridge (at least 1 of 2) was running during the 122v =
reading!  The
washer/dryer/dishwasher were not running during any of the tests.
Dave
On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 10:05:36 -0400, you wrote:
<Snip>
the
<Snip>
 ...
<Snip>
pair:
<Snip>
plugged into
<Snip>
somewhat hot at
<Snip>
on, even
<Snip>
 day.
<Snip>
AC on,
<Snip>
spending money
<Snip>
bribe her
<Snip>
buying a
<Snip>
unsvbscribes) go to =http://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings==========================
==========================
=====
Dave Morgenlender
e-mail: dmorgen
==========================
==========================
=====

42) From: M. McCandless
AC is controlled via Variac.
Fan is powered via 18V DC power supply.
TC read by Fluke 89IV.
I use the 2nd FR (old style) to cool finished batch as I start another one.
This controlled by a 18Vdc HP laptop power supply.
This is all about to become "back burner", as I just ordered a Hottop.
I debated long & hard about Hottop vs. Genie.
The Hottop looks more "tweakable (hackable)", so it won.
Pic at:http://www.codgersroost.com/Coffee/Images/k1.htmlMcSparky
At 09:13 AM 8/11/2006 -0400, you wrote:
<Snip>

43) From: M. McCandless
Something else to check would be the other side of the 110.
Often when one side is loaded, the V drop will be countered by
the other.
A neighbor asked me to find out why, when she turned on the
microwave, the AC dropped out.
Turns out the Power Co. ran a temp cable a couple hundred yards
to the box & forgot about it.
When she powered up the MW, the voltage on one side dropped to 
108 & the other rose to 128.
The AC comes from a center tapped transformer which maintained 
236V loaded or not.
McSparky
At 11:15 AM 8/11/2006 -0400, you wrote:
<Snip>

44) From: Justin Marquez
On 8/11/06, Eddie Dove  wrote:
<Snip>
While I agree that a Variac gives you actual control over the voltage
appiled to the heat elements, I don't agree about the voltage being
the same at the end of the 100' light gauge cord... unless you
measured it with no load applied!
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (Snyder, TX)

45) From: Spencer Thomas
Dave, did you check the voltage at the END of the extension cord?
Sounds like you didn't.  If there's voltage drop in the extension
cord, it will show up at the end of the cord, not at the wall outlet.
=Spencer
On 8/10/06, David Morgenlender  wrote:
<Snip>

46) From: Justin Marquez
On 8/14/06, Spencer Thomas  wrote:
<Snip>
Well... the two plugs in the wall duplex are in parallel at the end of
a run of wire from a circuit breaker (or fuse) somewhere in the house.
 The difference between having a load on one plug and not the other
means they both have the same lower voltage at the plugs in the wall
duplex.
When you have no load, they will be higher.  How much higher depends
on a lot of things... how much voltage is at the service entrance, how
muach load there is elsewhere in the house, elsewhere on the same
circuit, how big the wires are in the wall, etc.
When you plug in the extension cord and then turn on a load (the
roaster) at the end, the voltage is lowest at the terminals inside the
roaster, is slightly higher at every change in wires along the way all
the way back to the power company's transformer. Some of those voltage
differences are small... small enough to maybe even ignore... but they
are there.
A pretty good analogy is a water pipe with pressure gauges at various
places. When the water is everywhere in the house, the pressure (i.e.
voltage) is the same at all connected points.  When you turn on say a
sprinkler in the yard, there is a pressure loss along every bit of
pipe that the water flows in. The bigger the pipe (i.e. heavier gauge
wire) the less the pressure drop, but a drop is still there or the
water won't flow.
Pressure difference is what makes water flow and voltage difference is
what makes electrons flow.
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (Snyder, TX)

47) From: David Morgenlender
Spencer,
Yes I did, but not under load.  The difference between the wall outlet &
extension cord end was miniscule.
Dave
On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 15:31:59 -0400, you wrote:
<Snip>
roast
<Snip>
Cord &
<Snip>
==========================
==========================
=====
Dave Morgenlender
e-mail: dmorgen
==========================
==========================
=====

48) From: Pat Murray
Spencer,
The voltage drop will not show up at the end of the extension cord until it 
is under load.
Pat


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