HomeRoast Digest


Topic: OT: And they call it coffee (99 msgs / 3743 lines)
1) From: Vicki Smith
http://tinyurl.com/s3qz8 From Amazon's new grocery store:
BonJava LeanCaffe Functional Organic Gourmet Coffee with Hoodia Gordonii 
for Appetite Control, Cinnamon Hazelnut & Creme, Net Weight 12 ounces
List Price: 	$39.95
Price: 	$28.20 &
Product Features
     * 100% Arabica, Organic, Shade-Grown Gourmet Coffee & Appetite Control
     * Made with Fair Trade, Shade-Grown, Organic, 100% Arabica Coffee
     * Contains Rhodiola Rosea - clinical trials show that Rhodiola can 
increase general wellbeing, reduce mental fatigue and improve learning 
and memory
     * Each serving contains 950 mg of Hoodia Gordonii
     * Cinnamon Hazelnut & Crème, Full City Roast & All Purpose Grind

2) From: Aaron
Just another fine example of the health food folks going nuts... no pun 
intended.  Then mass marketing figures an angle on the 'kick' and tries 
at it as well...
If you nail two items together that have never been nailed together 
before,.... or in this case, mix two ingredients that haven't been 
really mixed before,  throw them in a fancy looking package... some fool 
will buy it.
Appetite control... implying weight control?   How about getting quit 
feeding your face the dolly madison, that might help you lose weight too 
oh and lets not forget some good ole fashioned exercise.
Then there are the flavorings...I find it really amusing when folks will 
pay a lot of money for some artificial flavorings to throw into their 
coffee to make it 'taste good' when the home roasters are getting pretty 
much close to any flavor they want in a coffee.. naturally, no 
flavorings added  at a lot less cost and probably significantly better 
QC as well..
We have coffee mixed with beer now, or malt beverage or whatever they 
want to call it.  Oh gee,a sober drunk, he now *thinks* he's good enough 
to drive home because he also drank two pots of coffee along with that 
18 pack of beer.
and to finish off....  $40 for twelve ounces.... ugh and we were saying 
tom charging $100 for three pounds of coffee was a bit over the top for 
most folks.  simply amazing what people will throw good money at, and 
how much they are willing to throw at it.
If folks would just learn to eat right, drink right, and not too much of 
it, and do a bit of exercise once in a while, none of this stuff would 
really be necessary.  PT Barnum must be smiling right about now.
I have an idea,  for those of you who are doing the 'homeroast' thing 
and selling it at flea markets, and the likes... next time you mow your 
lawn,  throw a handfull of lawn clippings into it, sell it as 'au 
naturale' .. double the price and say it's healthy for them....as it 
might contain some rare herb, that might have been looked at in a 
medical study and it might have been proven to possibly almost do 
something good for you.  If you happened to run your mower too close to 
where you walk your dog at, you can give the civet coffee a run for 
their money as well.. that is definately au naturale!!     just remember 
who's idea it was and make sure you cut me in on the profits.  Ill 
settle for a SM's gift certificate :)
Have a goodun, and a cup of REAL coffee everyone.  smile it's Monday.
Aaron

3) From: Lynne
Aaron -
You made my morning. ROTFL. Too, too funny - and oh, so true!
Lynne
Aaron wrote:
<Snip>

4) From: Leo Zick
There was a 'study' done, I think I heard it on scientific america.
Anyway, the study was about people being overweight, and despite popular
belief, its not from the 2 main reasons - overeating and lack of exercise.
Instead, they gave logical reasons as to why people in america were
overweight. Here are some:
-people work too much, and so they don't have time to exercise or cook
right.
-people enjoy tv too much, and so they don't have time to exercise or cook
right.
-people enjoy this technological society, with air conditioning. b/c its
cool all the time, you tend to eat more.
Etc.
Notice a recurring theme?  Im still wondering if it was a joke.
Aaron wrote:
<Snip>

5) From: Aaron
Leo, in a nutshell then.  americans are overweight because they are 
either overworked or their sofa is overworked.... got ya :) and I agree 
wholeheartedly.  However if one is doing hard physical work... working 
too much, then the even not eating right, the calories would tend to 
burn off Id think.   Overworking on a word processing project now. umm 
yah the built in life ring can grow to seam splitting proportions.
The moon ..... my butt....... which is bigger??????
Next week on the Oprah Winfrey show...
Aaron

6) From: Vicki Smith
(even more OT)
As a 108 pound 5 foot tall woman, who, at one point, weighed 235 pounds, 
I gotta tell you that the issue of weight is far more complex than most 
  people who have not had a serious weight problem know.
Its one thing to view this from afar, but quite something else to make 
the very personal journey that some of us make getting fat, coming to 
terms with ourselves as fat people, figuring out that we want (or need) 
to make a change, and then doing the very hard work not just to change 
our eating and activity level but also to figure out the particulars of 
our metabolism and health and process a whole lot of things internally 
so we not just lose the weight, but keep it off.
Vicki
Aaron wrote:
<Snip>

7) From: Scott Marquardt
The bifurcation is ever and always between a thing as a means, and a thing
as an end. This kind of thing is coffee as a means -- a delivery vehicle fo=
r
purposes beyond merely enjoying the coffee. They could abuse Kool-Aid the
same way.
Coffee is much better as an end in itself -- the sole thing one is after in
the cup.
--
Scott
On 8/21/06, Vicki Smith  wrote:
<Snip>
l
<Snip>
-- 
Scott

8) From: Justin Marquez
On 8/21/06, Vicki Smith  wrote:
<Snip>
If it was easy and simple, nobody would be overweight.
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (Snyder, TX)

9) From: Leo Zick
Congrats on the loss - I have huge respect for people who go through that
effort.
While I agree that the challenge for those whom are prone to being heavy or
who have 'let themselves go' is incredibly hard, its impressive when someone
puts their mind to changing it.  
Those who are fortunate and have not needed to understand their metabolisms
as well as the way you have take this for granted; but everyone should,
skinny or not. 
On the negative side - it should have never got that bad to begin with. When
you see a roast being burnt before your eyes, you turn off the roaster to
salvage the bean!

10) From: Woody DeCasere
well Leo at least you are able to be sympathetic huh?
for some it is easy for some it is not, lets not judge lest we be judged in
the same way.
On 8/21/06, Leo Zick  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
"Good night, and Good Coffee"
www.onthisjourney.typepad.com

11) From: Brian Kamnetz
On 8/21/06, Justin Marquez  wrote:
<Snip>
Good point, Justin.
Brian

12) From: Lynne
Vicki -
I am quite overweight (I'm 5' 8" - but that doesn't matter when there is 
too much weight on this body), and was VERY heavy a few years ago (I was 
huge - add to that the fact I was disabled back then, and couldn't walk 
more than a block or two - it wasn't easy to get the weight off). It is 
a lifetime struggle.
We live in a society today that values surface appearances more than 
anything else. The marketing that dominates our society, plus the poor 
quality of our food, added to our collective modern lifestyle (the 
majority of jobs today don't involve much exercise) has so much to blame.
We are in a McDonald's and Burger King world in the US today (these 
companies - there are many - even purchase contracts with our kids' 
schools); whether it's fast foods, or much of the tasteless foods that 
we buy in the grocery stores (every notice the difference in flavors of 
homegrown veggies & fruits?), they have much less flavor and nutrition 
than real food.
I once heard a talk (think it was NPR) a couple of years ago. A woman 
(orig. from the US) lived in Italy for many years. She said she returned 
to the US for a few months... couldn't believe in the difference of 
flavor (or lack of it) here. Eventually, she realized that she actually 
gained weight while she was back in the US - she certainly ate plenty of 
food in Italy (she probably walked more back in Italy, too - most of the 
US is not made for pedestrians anymore). She said she found herself 
eating more and more - like she was compensating for the lack of taste...
But I do agree with that marketing is ridiculous - all of it is the same 
- they see a segment of the population that has a need, and they pounce 
like vultures.
Lynne
Vicki Smith wrote:
<Snip>

13) From: Leo Zick
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
lol..  not too much. people who dont try piss me off.  
From: Woody DeCasere [mailto:decasere] 
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 10:50 AM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +OT: And they call it coffee
well Leo at least you are able to be sympathetic huh?
for some it is easy for some it is not, lets not judge lest we be judged in
the same way.
On 8/21/06, Leo Zick  wrote: 
Congrats on the loss - I have huge respect for people who go through that
effort.
While I agree that the challenge for those whom are prone to being heavy or
who have 'let themselves go' is incredibly hard, its impressive when someone
puts their mind to changing it.
Those who are fortunate and have not needed to understand their metabolisms
as well as the way you have take this for granted; but everyone should,
skinny or not.
On the negative side - it should have never got that bad to begin with. When
you see a roast being burnt before your eyes, you turn off the roaster to
salvage the bean!
-
-- 
"Good night, and Good Coffee"
www.onthisjourney.typepad.com 

14) From: Lynne
Ah, but we are all human beings, not coffee beans (couldn't help the 
pun). It is so easy to stand on the outside, and say, you shouldn't, you 
shouldn't... until we walk a mile in someone's shoes... we just don't 
know the why, or the struggle.
Everyone in the world has their own story, their own pain. Most do a 
good job of hiding it.
Unfortunately, when people treat their pain with food, it ends up being 
quite obvious...
Lynne
Leo Zick wrote:
<Snip>

15) From: Leo Zick
If I were walking a mile in someone elses shoes they wouldn't be worrying
about how to burn off the extra calories.
Oh, maybe we can add "Unfortunately, when people treat their pain with food,
it ends up being quite obvious..." to the scientific american list!  :p
My sister is overweight, and in addition to not excercising enough, she
hasn't taken the time to learn her body, and continues to eat sugar, etc.  
It isnt about valuing appearance, but our appearance does provide a first
glimpse of how we view ourselves, doesn't it?  Your words on italy are very
true, I eat like a slob while im there and still feel healthy.  While our
fast food culture does leave a lot to blame on this; it wouldn't exist as
much if there werent a demand!
I understand that there are circumstances in life, there always are. I
travel a lot for work, but it doesn't force me to find my way into a
mcdonalds (except for an iced coffee and egg mcmuffin.lol)
I don't mean to come across as cruel, but excuses (for any facet of life)
are a pet peeve of mine.

16) From: Sandy Andina
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Sheesh. Wash a Hoodia pill down with a cup of homeroast--save big $$$  =
and enjoy the taste!
On Aug 21, 2006, at 7:08 AM, Vicki Smith wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
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Sheesh. Wash a Hoodia pill down =
with a cup of homeroast--save big $$$ and enjoy the =
taste!
On Aug 21, 2006, at 7:08 AM, Vicki Smith =
wrote:
http://tinyurl.com/s3qz8From = Amazon's new grocery store: BonJava LeanCaffe Functional = Organic Gourmet Coffee with Hoodia Gordonii for Appetite Control, = Cinnamon Hazelnut & Creme, Net Weight 12 ounces List = Price: = $39.95Price: $28.20 = & Product Features     * 100% Arabica, Organic, = Shade-Grown Gourmet Coffee & Appetite Control    = * Made with Fair Trade, Shade-Grown, Organic, 100% Arabica = Coffee    * Contains Rhodiola Rosea = - clinical trials show that Rhodiola can increase general wellbeing, = reduce mental fatigue and improve learning and memory    = * Each serving contains 950 mg of Hoodia Gordonii    = * Cinnamon Hazelnut & Crème, Full City Roast & All = Purpose Grind homeroast mailing listhttp://li=sts.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroastTo change your personal list settings (digest = options, vacations, unsvbscribes) go to http://=sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings = = --Apple-Mail-113--365596062--

17) From: Sandy Andina
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Well, for some folks it isn't that simple. For many of us, it is no  
longer just about calories in/out--metabolisms change and some foods  
burn faster or slower for any given individual than their mere  
calorie counts would indicate. Some do marvelously on conventional  
balanced low-calorie diets, others on low-fat/high-carb vegan diets,  
while others of us who've developed age-&/or-hormone-related insulin  
resistance get nowhere unless we cut out (or drastically down on)  
sugars and starches, with fat content being irrelevant (except for  
digestive upsets caused by both excessive and inadequate fat  
intake).  Some have physical limitations on the type and intensity of  
exercise they can do, some find that the more they exercise the more  
their metabolisms ratchet down to conserve body mass, much the same  
as starvation.  Some have diseases or must take lifesaving  
medications that impede weight loss or even cause weight gain.
When it comes to "eating right" and "moving enough," one size does  
not fit all.  Judge not lest ye be judged.
And flush that flavored swill down the toilet.
On Aug 21, 2006, at 7:53 AM, Aaron wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
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Well, for some folks it isn't =
that simple. For many of us, it is no longer just about calories =
in/out--metabolisms change and some foods burn faster or slower for any =
given individual than their mere calorie counts would indicate. Some do =
marvelously on conventional balanced low-calorie diets, others on =
low-fat/high-carb vegan diets, while others of us who've developed =
age-&/or-hormone-related insulin resistance get nowhere unless we =
cut out (or drastically down on) sugars and starches, with fat content =
being irrelevant (except for digestive upsets caused by both excessive =
and inadequate fat intake).  Some have physical limitations on the =
type and intensity of exercise they can do, some find that the more they =
exercise the more their metabolisms ratchet down to conserve body mass, =
much the same as starvation.  Some have diseases or must take =
lifesaving medications that impede weight loss or even cause weight =
gain.
When it comes = to "eating right" and "moving enough," one size does not fit all.  = Judge not lest ye be judged.
And flush that flavored = swill down the toilet. On Aug 21, 2006, at 7:53 AM, Aaron = wrote:

If folks = would just learn to eat right, drink right, and not too much of it, and = do a bit of exercise once in a while, none of this stuff would really be = necessary.

= = --Apple-Mail-114--364965462--

18) From: Sandy Andina
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Thank you, Vicki! I make light of it (and even write songs about it),  
but it is a complex struggle that few who have never been there (as  
mature adults) can understand.
On Aug 21, 2006, at 8:55 AM, Vicki Smith wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
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Thank you, Vicki! I make light =
of it (and even write songs about it), but it is a complex struggle that =
few who have never been there (as mature adults) can =
understand.
On Aug 21, 2006, at 8:55 AM, Vicki Smith =
wrote:
<rant>(even more OT) As a 108 pound 5 foot tall = woman, who, at one point, weighed 235 pounds, I gotta tell you that the = issue of weight is far more complex than most  people who have not had a = serious weight problem know. Its one thing to view this from = afar, but quite something else to make the very personal journey that = some of us make getting fat, coming to terms with ourselves as fat = people, figuring out that we want (or need) to make a change, and then = doing the very hard work not just to change our eating and activity = level but also to figure out the particulars of our metabolism and = health and process a whole lot of things internally so we not just lose = the weight, but keep it off. </rant> Aaron wrote: Leo, in a nutshell then.  americans are overweight = because they are either overworked or their sofa is overworked.... got = ya :) and I agree wholeheartedly.  homeroast mailing listhttp://li=sts.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroastTo change your personal list settings (digest = options, vacations, unsvbscribes) go to http://=sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings = = --Apple-Mail-118--364021677--

19) From: Sandy Andina
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It's an insidious double standard: we are exhorted by the fashion  
police to be ever thinner, to the point of dangerous eating  
disorders; yet the foods we need to eat properly are available only  
to those of us willing to eschew eating out affordably. Most readily  
available and affordable restaurant meals are geared either to the  
elite who can eat as they please without gaining and/or exercise  
obsessively (and who of course set the aesthetic standards of  
society!), those who cannot afford healthier choices, and those who  
have just given up and are resigned to forever remaining an aesthetic  
"underclass."
On Aug 21, 2006, at 10:38 AM, Lynne wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
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It's an insidious double =
standard: we are exhorted by the fashion police to be ever thinner, to =
the point of dangerous eating disorders; yet the foods we need to eat =
properly are available only to those of us willing to eschew eating out =
affordably. Most readily available and affordable restaurant meals are =
geared either to the elite who can eat as they please without gaining =
and/or exercise obsessively (and who of course set the aesthetic =
standards of society!), those who cannot afford healthier choices, and =
those who have just given up and are resigned to forever remaining an =
aesthetic "underclass."
On Aug 21, 2006, at 10:38 AM, Lynne =
wrote:

But I do = agree with that marketing is ridiculous - all of it is the same - they = see a segment of the population that has a need, and they pounce like = vultures.

= --Apple-Mail-119--363568178--

20) From: Aaron
You can't just blame fast foods for people being fat.  The overall 
lifestyles have changed drastically over the years.  Our fathers and 
grandfathers probably could eat a half pound of bacon and then fry 5 
eggs in the grease and call it breakfast, and get away with it and stay 
relatively thin, because jobs were more 'manual' and 'exertive' back 
then.  They toiled in the hot sun, or a hot factory for hours and hours 
each day and burnt off those calories.
Today's lifestyles, with automation et al, is much more sedentary, and 
the caloric 'burning' just isn't there anymore in many many places where 
it once used to be. (sorry boys and girls, sitting in an air conditioned 
office 9 to 5 is not very exerting, even if you have to answer the 
phone!!)   Now couple this with the over abundance of stuff to make you 
fat so easily available on every street corner, in every office complex, 
and well.. yes I will say it,  lazy ass people who are going to eat a 
ton of this garbage, and then  not do a thing to work off the 1800 
calorie McDonalds supesize big mac and fries they just inhaled for 
lunch... and there you have it.... fat people making excuses, blaming 
everything in the world for their condition except for the real reason 
it is there... they do not have the self control to take care of 
themselves properly.  Alas, yep, yet another 'victim' is born.
One does not become fat overnight either, the pounds come on over time, 
so it's not like someone sprung a suprise on you either... after going 
through 3 or 4 pant sizes, one would think a person would start to get 
the idea that they better start doing something about their GROWING 
condition, or something before it gets out of control... and no the 
answer is not on jerry springer either.
Is fast food part of the problem, oh you bet it is, but nobody is 
holding a gun to their heads forcing them to eat it either, or forcing 
them to not exercise or eat better or whatever excuse is there.  Blaming 
McDonalds for one being fat is much like the alcoholic blaming being 
drunk for their behavior... it's NOT an excuse, it's pathetic.
Also, the 'holy grail' of weight loss is simply not there either, there 
is no magic pill or diet to make it happen.  The bottom line to weight 
loss, besides becoming a crack addict that is....is that you have to 
'burn off' more calories than you take in.  If you eat more calories 
than you use up in a day, you will eventually get fat.... if you burn 
off more calories than you take in, then you will lose weight.  Its in 
essence, as simple as that.  The correct foods to eat,  contrary to what 
some might want to tell you are readily available to you too.... it's 
called the fresh food department of your grocery store..  last time I 
checked they put funny names on it like fresh fruits and vegetables and 
oddball slogans like that.  . you could also check out the fresh meat 
department too, some pretty healthy stuff there too..
Now before I get my mailbox filled with more letters whining that I am 
making fun of fat people again, Ill say that I am in that category 
myself.  Im overweight, but I know why, and I hold the blame entirely on 
myself.  It's not Hershey's fault, it's NOT budweisers fault, it's NOT 
McDonalds fault, it's MY fault.  Not only is it my fault, but the 
responsibility for making that condition go away is entirely mine as 
well.  Getting thin again is not an easy task, it takes a lot of effort 
on ones part, and determination, and the first step is for one to quit 
making excuses for themselves and say, I am fat because of choices I 
have made.  Boo Hooing and blubbering everytime someone brings up the 
topic of tonnage, is not going to fix the problem, exercise and eating 
properly will.  This is probably  why so many probably fail, because 
they might have to take responsibility for something and actually work 
at it.... in this instant gratification world we live in, that simply 
just won't do.
So there you have it folks, I am not only a bastard,   but a fat bastard 
to boot!!
Now, I wonder if I keep wired on coffee 18 hours a day if it will be 
enough to curb the hunger pains and help me lose weight.
 Or perhaps I should just eat right and exercise.  oh the choices... I 
better mull this over on an ice cream cone.
Aaron

21) From: Woody DeCasere
no the coffee will have your stomach all acidified, and you'll need to eat
to take away the pain.
I do agree with you, but compassion is a rare commodity these days and a
little goes a long way.
On 8/21/06, Aaron  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
"Good night, and Good Coffee"
www.onthisjourney.typepad.com

22) From: europachris
Amen.
 
In high shool, my senior year, I was 6 feet and 260 lbs.  It was not muscle (I'm not athletic).  I was a fat slob.  I'm not sure what did it, but one day something just 'snapped' and I realized that if I kept going down this path I'd end up 400 lbs. and dead by 40.   I always ate good food, but I just ate a LOT of it.  I love to eat, and love good food.
 
So, one day I just quit eating for the sake of eating, and ate only when I was actually hungry.  Many times I'd work right through lunch or a dinner.  Even then, I ate half of what I normally ate and cut down on the snacks.  I also started excercising again, as once I got my car and started driving rather than biking, my weight really got out of control.
 
A year later, by the end of my freshman year at college I was down to 165 lbs.  Lots of mountain biking and good eating habits did the trick.
 
18 years later I'm still hanging around 180 lbs and in pretty good shape.  Weight is still a constant battle with me as I just don't have the metabolism to eat much more than 2000 calories a day, and probably do best on 1500.  But, I remember what it was like being fat and there's no way I'm going back.
 
Chris

23) From: Brett Mason
With my 280, I have to agree with you Aaron - It's my fault...
Vivki gave great motivation today too - you go girl!
Brett
On 8/21/06, Aaron  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Regards,
Brett Mason
HomeRoast
   Zassman

24) From: Aaron
I found the biggest two obstacles to first overcome is eating like a 
pig.  I could order a family size pizza with 6 ot 7 toppings on it and  
down that in one sitting.  Now lets add the beer on top of that and 
well... you get the picture.  and number two was eating slower and not 
gorging yourself......    being in the military for 20years didn't help 
my situation much at first,  the I have 3 minutes to suck in what might 
be called a meal is not the way to take care of yourself.  Im not 
blaming the military for that condition, I suppose I could have ate 
later on or grabbed a 'salad to go' or something, (in retrospect yes 
there WERE options) so the point is pretty much moot... the 3 minute 
meal was the choice I had choosen, and it did its thing to me.  I bring 
it up to prove a point that the 'easy' way or the most 'convenient' way 
was the one I choose, which was not necessarily the 'best' or 
'healthiest' way.  I can easily say it was the military lifestyle that 
fattened me up, but the bare truth is I had choices, and made poor 
ones.    anyways, back to the original point..
By taking ones time and eating less, or eat filling stuff that isn't 
crammed with calories will help.   Don't eat the moment you feel hungry, 
let it go a few hours and pace yourself....   eventually you will shrink 
your stomach down so that you will actually eat less to get 'full.  
Instead of the Wendy's triple supersized that I could down in a few 
minutes,  the 'single' meal actually was almost too much to 'wolf down'...
Ok yes, wendy's is NOT the food of choice to stay healthy, but I use 
that as an example of how a big step (for me at least) was reducing the 
quantity I was able to eat before feeling full... or in my case gorged 
or bloated..  The next step was to start eating foods that were not fast 
food crap.  Start shopping for the fresh stuff, making good meals etc etc.
Now I know the first excuse many are going to make is, whine, I work xxx 
hours a day, I have kids, yadda yadda I don't have time to eat right or 
cook right.....
BS..  MAKE the time...
I cook on weekends, in fact sunday is my once a week 'cookathon'   I 
basically cook all the stuff I am going to eat for the week or so, all 
on that one day.  Fresh veggies and fruits, good meats on the smoker 
with plenty of spices...  I then baggie it up in one or two portion 
servings and throw it all in the freezer.
For lunch, I grab a meat pack, a veggie pack or two, throw them in the 
lunch sack, nuke it for a minute or two, whammo.  FAST FOOD that is good 
for you.   For dinner, I might grab one or two meat packs,  a veggie 
pack or two, a fruit pack, and there ya go, good food FAST in the 
microwave for a few minutes.... healthy...  Salad's I generally do up a 
big bowl throw it in a ziplock bag and in the crisper at about 34 
degrees.. keeps for about a week without getting too nasty... the few 
leaves / fruits that do get limpy or icky i feed to the bearded dragons 
or sugar gliders..they love my diet too..
The bottom line is, if you really are concerned about your health, and 
really do want to lose weight, you CAN make it happen.  you don't have 
to 'starve' yourself either as some diets will have you do, or 'forsake' 
favorite foods, as other diets will have you do.  Have your ice cream 
cone,  have your moon pie,  eat that chocolate cake, but make it a 
snack, or a reward, not a meal by itself....
and finally on that,  YES a good hot cup of coffee homebrewed WILL stave 
off hunger pains and prolong your 'urges' to pig out until you get home 
or get to your normal time that you should be eating... last i heard 
coffee had zero calories, or maybe just a few... and isn't unhealthy... 
If you are worried about the caffeine, well, we all know the decaf's 
SM's has are great too.

25) From: Brian Kamnetz
Can't remember where, but not too long ago I heard/read someone
hypothesizing about a correlation between the upward trend in obesity
and increased usage of corn sweeteners in American foods. (When I get
more time I will Google it....)
Brian
On 8/21/06, Brett Mason  wrote:
<Snip>

26) From: Eddie Dove
I think I saw that on the History / Dicovery / Learning channel ... checked
the snacks I was eating and sure enough ...
On 8/21/06, Brian Kamnetz  wrote:
<Snip>

27) From: Justin Marquez
On 8/21/06, Aaron  wrote:
<Snip>
We ALL make time for the things we value enough.  How many folks have
you discussed homeroasting with and they say "Oh, I don't have time
for that!".
Last year, I knew I had surgery coming up and I worried that my weight
was not good for that experience.  (I'm about 5'-10" and weighed in
then at about 255 lbs).  Without actually "going on a diet", I managed
to lose between 10 and 15 lbs before the surgery (maybe 6 months.)
happened. Because I was concerned enough about it to JUST  THINK
ABOUT IT before chowing down, it made a difference.  Just that little
time to think and act accordingly made a difference. I dropped a full
2" off the waist size.
Not only that my BP and blood sugar levels are down,too.
So, I am trying to JUST THINK ABOUT IT some more. Certainly, the
weight I am at now is still "not good", but it is "better now than it
was for the 5 years before"
It was a lesson to me, for sure.
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (Snyder, TX)

28) From: Aaron
Sadly justin for many americans, the wakeup call doesn't come to them 
until AFTER they are on a gurney being taken out of their homes feet 
first by the ambulance crew and heading to the emergency room, (if they 
are lucky and it's not the morgue).
I don't want to say that overeating is an addiction but man it sure fits 
the description many times.....  I used to chew tobacco too, you don't 
even want to know how much.  One day I finally said, this is IT,  
ENOUGH, i am going to quit today before I kill myself... Ive been toying 
with the idea for oh geez a good year or two before hand...perhaps the 
trip to the hospital in above mentioned ambulance due to out of control 
blood pressure.... when they took me off it was at 216 / 156  I was a 
stroke looking for a place to happen.... then hearing the doctors in the 
background saying get some narcs into him now to calm him down before he 
strokes on the table here... is not too reassuring to hear as well.
I finally quit the tobacco but went the 'more food' route in the process 
I guess to compensate, and finally I am working on the whoa there 
hoover, don't vaccuum up everything edible problem as well.  As we age 
the metabolism slows down and the crap we used to get away with eating 
when we were 18 or early 20's comes back to haunt us terribly now.... 
the key is, admitting this change IS here and working with it, and not 
denying it.
speaking of surgery, I have to go back to the doctor here for a follow 
up to my gizzardectomy.  (recently lost the appendix and quite a bit of 
intestine with it due to not going to the doctors office until I was 
pretty much doubled over).. so yes I know all about stupid and 
stubborn... it's the polock in me, I swear it is :)
People CAN make a huge difference in their lifestyles, especially 
concerning dietary health, but they have to make the initial effort, and 
once you get into it, it's really NOT that hard to do.
It took me about 35 years, but I finally went from making excuses to 
making progress... call it midlife crises but some guys buy porsches... 
I buy cooking utensils so I can eat better...   well, cept for the home 
made chocolate making stuff I just sprung for... don't tell anyone about 
that ok? but it DID come with a 1/3 horse power juicer... I mean come 
on, Tim Taylor would be proud of that baby, im juicing all kinds of 
stuff now.....    oh and the power grinder, claims it can grind coffee 
too, im gonna give it a whirl...  I do have a grain mill that whirrs at 
10,000 rpm but it busted the beans to powder beyond dust so that is out 
of the question unless I am brewing and fermenting.
Oh and Kona makes a terriffic kahlua.
Aaron

29) From: Lynne
Dr. Mark Hyman. Author of the book, "Ultrametabolism: The Simple Plan 
for Automatic Weight Loss "
Excellent book. He also explains plenty on his blog 
, too.
Brian Kamnetz wrote:
<Snip>

30) From: Lynne
Mean spirited people lacking in basic compassion are a pet peeve of /mine/.
Leo Zick wrote:
<Snip>

31) From: europachris
I don't think anyone here is lacking compassion.  
The point Leo was trying to make is that there are FAR to many Americans that come up with excuses as to why they are drunks, on dope, fat, unemployed, divorced, etc. and try to blame their problems on society, the TV, Rush Limbaugh, George Bush, Jesse Jackson, etc.
 
Now, there ARE people who fit in the above categories who genuinely have had a setback in life due to circumstances beyond control.  And it is those people I will actively go out of my way to help in any way I can.
 
But, the lazy slob who just wants to suck of the government tit and complain that it's everyone else's fault can just go pound sand in my book.  
 
I was a fat slob once.  It was my fault.  I did something about it.  I lost 100 pounds.  Magic?  Nope.  Pills?  Nope.  Good eating and excercise.  Period.  
I'm blessed with a good job, great wife, a great son.  I am indeed fortunate.  I also bust my a$$ every day at work, and so does my wife, so we can have a nice home, etc. etc.
America is the land of opportunity and the land of the free.  We can do anything we please and be as successful as we wish (or total failures).  What burns my butt is the lazy 'have nots' trying to run my life.
 
 I'm hoping I don't start a big political discussion out of this topic.
Chris

32) From: europachris

33) From: raymanowen
I can see it now, Aaron.
The "herb" to which you refer may have reference to the Feline digestive
tract, and is soaked by the operation of the other side of the feline
all-purpose sewer system.
I don't do Katze Scheisse. At best, it starts out as canned cat food and
decrements- bugs, birds or mice.
Then the furr balls groom themselves and passers-by...
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
What's in your cuppa?
On 8/21/06, Aaron  wrote:
<Snip>

34) From: Vicki Smith
I think it is just lovely that we are blessed on this list with so many 
people who understand so much about obesity. Perhaps they should contact 
  the researchers who somehow seem to be perplexed by what they (silly 
little science wonks)consider to be very complex, indeed.
The article I reference below does make the point that right now, we 
have no "solutions" other than the standard eat less, exercise more 
advice, but it sure seems that people studying obesity are far less 
quick to label fat people as lazy, stupid, or lacking in character than 
the average home roaster.
It's a long article, but worth reading.
Fat Factors
By ROBIN MARANTZ HENIG
 From the NY Times, August 13http://tinyurl.com/eh4gwVicki (absolutely done with this topic now)

35) From: Sandy Andina
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Depressing beyond belief, confirming EVERYTHING I have read over the  
past 15 years>
On Aug 22, 2006, at 1:00 AM, Vicki Smith wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
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Depressing beyond belief, =
confirming EVERYTHING I have read over the past 15 =
years>
On Aug 22, 2006, at 1:00 AM, Vicki Smith =
wrote:

The article I reference below = does make the point that right now, we have no "solutions" other than = the standard eat less, exercise more advice, but it sure seems that = people studying obesity are far less quick to label fat people as lazy, = stupid, or lacking in character than the average home roaster. It's a = long article, but worth reading. Fat FactorsBy ROBIN MARANTZ HENIGFrom = the NY Times, August 13 http://tinyurl.com/eh4gw = --Apple-Mail-144--320693731--

36) From: George Birchard
Obesity is a very complicated problem and a sore topic for most 
Americans.  That's why I haven't commented up to now. I did learn one 
thing in Hawaii, however, that is worth considering.  Hawaiians and 
Pacific islanders have a genetic propensity to be large people. The life 
expectancy of Hawaiian males is very low and weight plays a large role 
in this problem. It's a very sad situation.
However, I have a friend who was very large that decided he wanted to 
live longer.  He stopped eating the American influenced diet and 
returned to a traditional Hawaiian diet.  He has lost over 100 lbs and 
walks every morning now.  He is fortunate that his joints are still good 
because not everyone is lucky enough to be able to walk like he does at 
his age but he is doing great. He is still a big man but he is healthy 
now. The key for him was stopping the American diet and beer. Now, I 
don't think that most of us have access to the huge amounts of poi that 
he eats so his sllution won't work for most of us. What's clear is that 
the American diet and lifestyle is a big problem, especially for Pacific 
islanders. Comparisons of Americans to the British, for example, have 
shown that the British are much healthier (despite their bad teeth). We 
Americans have a real health and lifestyle problem and obesity is part 
of it.
George
Vicki Smith wrote:
<Snip>

37) From: europachris

38) From: Tom Bellhouse
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Chris, like you, I spent time in the Netherlands.  I think your reason =
#5 is the key -- people walk or ride bikes everywhere.  The country is =
made for walking, with hike and bike paths everywhere.  It would be =
entirely possible to walk the length or breadth of the country on =
established walking paths. 
As for Dutch eating habits, they're abominable.  Greasy fries,  huge =
desserts, mucho starch, and a national love of chocolate.  The national =
dishs are an Indonesian pig-out called reistaffel and a horrible green =
pea and potato stew called hotsput that looks pre-digested.  And, in =
many cities, there are McDonalds that are well patronized.  So again, I =
think the diference is exercise.
Did I mention that I love the Netherlands?  Most civilized place I have =
ever visited -- except for the food.
Tom in GA

39) From: europachris
 Yup, I love it there, too.  Such nice, warm people.
 
The eating habits are skewed if you are a visitor and eat at restaurants and hotels.  Indeed, lots of fried potatoes and big desserts.  Oh yeah, a lot of them smoke like there's no tomorrow, too.
 
However, I had quite a few meals at co-workers homes and the meals were much more healthy.  Although, I did request a special meal of hutspot and borenkool, which are the traditional "farmer foods" in the east of Holland.  Quite delicious.
 
It is truly amazing, tho, to see quite elderly women and men riding bikes at a good clip.  I had one coworker that rode 18km each way to work, via bike, rain or shine.  They had one car, and his wife used it to tote the kids around.  Otherwise, the kids are on the bikes, also, one in front, one in back.
Oh yeah, nobody wears bike helmets, either.  Even the little kids on the bikes had none.  Kinda scary.
 
Chris

40) From: Lynne
George -
Thank you for your kind and intelligent post.
I have known this for a long time. The rest of us don't have to eat poi 
- if we maintain a diet that is mostly fresh fruits and veggies, and 
forget about processed foods, not only will we lose the excess pounds, 
but we'll be healthier, too.
The manner in which our foods have been tampered - over processed, 
sugar, corn syrup, salt and other additives added that normally do not 
occur in food - well, I believe it contributes to the reason people end 
up eating so much - we are trying to find the nutrients that just aren't 
in the foods anymore!
I like Dr. Hyman's book - it is so logical. He actually came across the 
info accidentally - he original intent was to help people get healthy. 
They just started losing weight along with getting rid of medical 
ailments. I haven't finished reading it yet, but it is pretty much what 
I have felt is 'right' for my body, for a while now.
Congrats to  your friend, by the way, for tossing the (very S.A.D.) 
American diet. So many cultures throughout the world were free of 
obesity and the diseases we consider to be part of our lives - until 
they adopted our diet (and, I might add, our insane lifestyle).
Lynne
George Birchard wrote:
<Snip>

41) From: Justin Marquez
On 8/23/06, europachris  wrote:
<Snip>
Those morbidly obese people who can't walk can't ride bikes either,
thus, they would be stuck indoors at home and you wouldn't see them.
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (Snyder, TX)

42) From: europachris
Heh, good point.
However, you don't see them ANYWHERE.  Not at the store, restaurants, etc.
 
If I have to go to (gag) Wal-Mart for something, 9 times out of 10 I'll see someone riding one of those scooters that is too obese to walk very far.
 
At the same time, I feel very sad for these people.  I know what it's like to be overweight, and I was going down the same path.  I just caught it a lot earlier.  
 
I'm not out to bash fat people.  I was one, once.   I just hate to see the way American eating habits and the epidemic of obesity that is happening.  It's going to make AIDS look like the sniffles by comparison.
Chris

43) From: Lynne
Chris & Tom -
I live in the Boston area, so when I spent a couple of years in Tucson I 
was shocked - of course, the heat alone prevents one from walking 
around, but in our drive both to and from, I realized that the rest of 
the U.S. is VERY different (in many ways). It wasn't until I got older, 
stopped walking EVERYWHERE, started eating larger portions (oh, and got 
a serious medical condition, too) that I gained weight. I also ended up 
injuring my knee, too, which, surprisingly, makes driving more difficult 
now, but for a while I had a difficult time walking.
Boston (and Cambridge), despite the crazy weather, has a good share of 
people who walk, and ride bikes. I live north of the city, and except in 
the coldest months, there are plenty of people that do the same here. I 
think our connection to Europe (and now, many other countries :-) ) is 
part of the reason, the other is that Boston streets were originally cow 
paths...
For me, a huge factor as to where I am to live is the ability to walk 
everywhere. Years ago, I dreamed of living in Europe for an extended 
period of time, but alas, I never did...
Lynne
Tom Bellhouse wrote:
<Snip>

44) From: Lynne
Yes, Justin, I hear that the various European countries have all their 
obese people locked away in their homes. They don't go out to shop, or 
go to a doctor's office, or school, or do anything at all.
I here in the Netherlands neighbors just shovel food into the windows so 
they can keep the obesity a secret. It's a big Euro plot, you know.
Of course, we know that it has *nothing* to do with a different lifestyle...
;-)
Justin Marquez wrote:
<Snip>

45) From: europachris
 Yes, the East Coast is quite different.  I lived on Long Island for many years and my parents are currently in New Jersey.  People do walk and bike more there, but things are more closely spaced and it's more possible.
 
Now we live in the upper Midwest (N. Illinois and lived near Milwaukee for 10 years).  Oh yeah, I could always tell I'm back in the USA when I'd get off the plane.....Wisconsin is not known for it's slim people.
Chris

46) From: Michael Wascher
In NJ!? Must be a different NJ than the one I live in.
Not a sidewalk in sight where I live, and walking or riding along the edge
of the street is suicidal. Somebody ramming a tree in our yard or smashing
our mailbox is almost an annual event. Actually, there was a gap of over 2
years before the most recent incident, but the driver made up for it -- took
out our mailbox, neighbors fence, sheared a fire hydrant, another mailbox,
uprooted shrubs, took out the next neighbor's fence, headed across the
street, targeted another mailbox, smashed through a telephone pole
(completely severed it) and finally stopped in some brush.
I'm going to walk along the side of the road with only a yellow stripe
marking the barrier between pedestrians & these idiots? You must be kidding!
Folks here pay somebody to do their lawn & housework. Drive everywhere. Then
pay to go to a gym.
On 8/23/06, europachris  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
"There is nothing new under the sun but there are lots of old things we
don't know." --  Ambrose Bierce

47) From: Vicki Smith
Today's paper in Canada had an interesting article.
They are talking about obesity, not merely overweight, btw, so a BMI 
(flawed measure that it is) of 30 or over. I assume part of the reason 
is that folks tend to walk more in cities, even if it is just to catch 
the bus or metro, and there is probably  more social pressure around 
body size as well.
Vicki
====================
Obesity rates higher in towns
UPDATED: 2006-08-23 02:38:55 MST
OTTAWA -- Adults who live in cities are less likely to be obese than 
those living in outlying areas, says a new report from Statistics Canada.
The agency said 20% of residents aged 18 or older who lived in large 
centres were obese in 2004, compared with 29% of those who lived outside 
a metropolitan area.
In areas with a population of at least two million, such as Toronto, 
Montreal and Vancouver, 17% of adults were obese.
The comparable figure for areas with a population of 100,000 to two 
million was 24%, and in urban centres with populations of 10,000 to 
100,000, 30% of adults were found to be obese.
The national average for obesity among adults was 23%, or 5.5-million 
Canadians.
However, "while there was a relationship between excess weight and 
urban-rural residence among adults, the same was not true for children," 
Statistics Canada says.
"Alberta was the one exception to this trend. There, young people aged 
two to 17 who lived in (cities) were less likely to be overweight-obese 
than were those who did not (live in cities)."

48) From: europachris
My parents live in Whippany, and indeed, it's not the most walking-friendly place in the world...
 
I have relatives in the Mahwah/Ramsey area.  Most of my time there was spent many years ago.  It's not the same now as it was then.
Chris

49) From: Brian Kamnetz
On 8/23/06, europachris  wrote:
<Snip>
I lived in Madison WI for a number of years and got spoiled for biking
most anywhere else. It's pretty easy (and safe) in Madison to go
wherever you want to go, pretty much year round, by bicycle. Lots of
trails, and worst case scenario, a lane separated by a line on the
pavement.
I agree that a line on the pavement is not the greatest, but it's
better than you will find around most of the US, or at least the
places I have been. Most places have no accommodation for bikes at
all. In Reno they were redoing a main road. I called to ask whether
there would be accommodation for bikes, and was told that they were
making the lane wider, so there would be room for bikes, but no
line....
I stayed at a hotel in Orlando, and another guy and I wanted to walk
across the street to have something to eat at one of the many small
restaurants. They didn't even have crosswalks there!
Brian

50) From: Rich Adams
Born and raised in Elizabeth.  The whole original part of Elizabeth all have 
sidewalks.  Slate.
I believe its the "planned" cities that have sidewalks.  After the planning 
when they pop up by land development the chances of sidewalks are nil.
My folks are in Seaside Park.  Again, a planned city with sidewalks, and a 
boardwalk.
Rich Adams

51) From: Bob Brashear
Brian Kamnetz wrote:
<Snip>
In the Twin Cities and in Tucson, car drivers use those lines as aiming 
devices. I have an eye condition that prevents me from driving. So I 
bike. I haven't been hit in the Twin Cities, but I was hit 3 times in 
Tucson, once by a semi-truck.
American cities west of the Appalacians were not made for bikes. This 
country was not built on the european model. Until petroleum becomes so 
expensive and society has a medium size collapse, I do not foresee bikes 
  viewed favorably by the general public.
Oh, another thing...
I obey traffic signals. I am a vehicle using the road. I signal my 
turns. Most bikers I see do not. Some of the behavior I see qualifies 
the bike rider to have his status changed to TARGET.
Sort of a pet peeve of mine.
Bob

52) From: Lynne
Oh, and they go so FAST, too. Riding a bicycle is difficult anywhere, I 
think, there are vehicles on the road, but I can't imagine riding one in 
Tucson. The average road there is similar to a highway in Massachusetts.
I hope you weren't seriously injured - esp. w/that semi-truck!
Lynne
Bob Brashear wrote:
<Snip>

53) From: Sandy Andina
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But as the NY Times Mag. article pointed out, some of us can still  
gain weight on "normal" or even small portions, on as little as 800  
cal. a day.  I was thin as a kid, and well within normal weight  
limits until I got pregnant. Never had a "gut" till after my C- 
section.  Had a handle on things till I had several injuries that  
sent me to the hospital for surgery and had me bedridden and unable  
to exercise.  Every time I lost a significant amount of weight, my  
metabolism slowed down (even after increasing activity) in an attempt  
to return to what for my body had been the norm. It has been  
medically established that the more times you have lost weight, the  
harder it is to keep it off.
Yes, junk food, huge portions and inactivity will make normal people  
fat. But many people who are prudent will still nonetheless  
struggle.  The irony is that many of us heavier folks who do struggle  
to keep from becoming morbidly obese eat less, eat healthier foods,  
and exercise as much or more than those with normal metabolisms who  
self-righteously judge us to be lazy gluttons.  Some of us make diet  
and exercise efforts that are too rigorous for many of you thin  
people to want to undertake. Walk a mile in my shoes.....assuming you  
can squeeze into a size 7M.
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
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But as the NY Times Mag. article =
pointed out, some of us can still gain weight on "normal" or even small =
portions, on as little as 800 cal. a day.  I was thin as a kid, and =
well within normal weight limits until I got pregnant. Never had a "gut" =
till after my C-section.  Had a handle on things till I had several =
injuries that sent me to the hospital for surgery and had me bedridden =
and unable to exercise.  Every time I lost a significant amount of =
weight, my metabolism slowed down (even after increasing activity) in an =
attempt to return to what for my body had been the norm. It has been =
medically established that the more times you have lost weight, the =
harder it is to keep it off.
Yes, junk food, huge = portions and inactivity will make normal people fat. But many people who = are prudent will still nonetheless struggle.  The irony is that many = of us heavier folks who do struggle to keep from becoming morbidly obese = eat less, eat healthier foods, and exercise as much or more than those = with normal metabolisms who self-righteously judge us to be lazy = gluttons.  Some of us make diet and exercise efforts that are too = rigorous for many of you thin people to want to undertake. Walk a mile = in my shoes.....assuming you can squeeze into a size = 7M. = = --Apple-Mail-171--184724714--

54) From: Vicki Smith
You made a really important point, Sandy. I was fortunate that for 
various reasons I never really did the yo-yo dieting that screws up 
metabolisms. Still, even with an hour a day in the gym, I gain weight if 
I go over about 1400 calories a day, which is not all that much food.
Being post menopausal and a shorty plays into it, as well.
I have been successful maintaining my weight loss thus far, but it takes 
a great deal of effort, perhaps more than anyone who has never been fat 
would care to make.
v
Sandy Andina wrote:
<Snip>

55) From: Brett Mason
Ya know, I walked to work yesterday, at a pretty good clip, and walked
today as well.  Lunch was a salad from the cafeteria - no potato or
macaroni salad either, lots of cucumber, broccoli, tomatoes, and
onions.  Added fat free dressing and salsa (my answer to no-taste FF
dressings), and a glass of water.  Today added BAKED Doritos...
All this is well and good.  Easy too.  My problem is the afternon
munchies (drinking a VIenna Roasted Monsooned Malabar, and another
20oz water).
I am going to make it, I am going to make it.  I keep saying that to
myself...  But right now a balanced diet sounds like an ice cream in
each hand...
If the engineers come in here with one more problem, I might take my
hunger out on them...
I got to the high 2's on my own, and it sure is easier than getting
back down.  Many of you have offered good advice, and all the comments
are right on!  (Aaron, I sure got here on my own - you nailed that
one!)
So it's an every day battle.  Glad to walk 15 minutes each way to work
(screw the rain, we'll see what to do for snow)
I sure miss my 18 year old metabolism - life was easy ("wanna go for a
burger?" - we could play a couple hours of tennis afterward too...)
So if you're like me, challenged to step up and take it off, well GL
and hang in there....  If you trash it, well remember it's Sweet Corn
Season, and go get some - cause at least there's not a ton in there
that can hurt ya....
Evening snack:  Vine-ripened tomatoes!  I am getting to like these....
SO I'll roast some more tonight, pull some 'spresso's and maybe a
cappa, and tomorrow will fight again...
Brett
On 8/23/06, Vicki Smith  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Regards,
Brett Mason
 HomeRoast
   Zassman

56) From: Sandy Andina
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There is a corollary reason why the Dutch--especially in Amsterdam-- 
are generally thin and fit; and it also holds true for Venice:  
canals.  Especially in Venice, where no motor vehicles are permitted  
at all, and even bikes cannot be used on bridges (you must dismount  
and walk)--crossing a street involves crossing a bridge, which in  
turn involves lots of stair-climbing because bridges have to be high  
enough to allow at least small boats to pass beneath.  But it is not  
true that there are no fat or physically unfit people in Amsterdam or  
Venice--you just don't see them because they have no mobility and are  
prisoners in their homes or on their own sides of the streets.
On Aug 23, 2006, at 9:50 AM, Tom Bellhouse wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
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There is a corollary reason why =
the Dutch--especially in Amsterdam--are generally thin and fit; and it =
also holds true for Venice: canals.  Especially in Venice, where no =
motor vehicles are permitted at all, and even bikes cannot be used on =
bridges (you must dismount and walk)--crossing a street involves =
crossing a bridge, which in turn involves lots of stair-climbing because =
bridges have to be high enough to allow at least small boats to pass =
beneath.  But it is not true that there are no fat or physically unfit =
people in Amsterdam or Venice--you just don't see them because they have =
no mobility and are prisoners in their homes or on their own sides of =
the streets.
On Aug 23, 2006, at 9:50 AM, Tom Bellhouse =
wrote:
Chris, like you, I spent time in the Netherlands.  = I think your reason #5 is the key -- people walk or ride bikes = everywhere.  The country is made for walking, with hike and bike paths = everywhere.  It would be entirely possible to walk the length or = breadth of the country on established walking = paths. = --Apple-Mail-173--182849616--

57) From: Sandy Andina
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My greatest regret is that I never learned to ride a bike.  I grew up  
poor in Brooklyn--my parents told me at the time they were afraid I'd  
get hurt, but years later they admitted that we were too poor to be  
able to replace a bike if it got stolen (as they inevitably did in  
our neighborhood, even if chained in the basement of our tenement-- 
and we lived on the third floor in a 2-BR apt, with no elevator and  
no room to store a bike).  I actually have a set of 20" training  
wheels on a mountain bike, but still fall down (and after rupturing  
both knee ACLs and breaking a leg, I am terrified of falling again).   
Those training wheels make it impossible to carry the bike on a car  
rack or the rack on the front of a CTA bus.  It hurts no end to have  
people accuse me of being an environmental criminal because I eat  
meat and drive instead of bike.  If I could be a vegan and not  
balloon up over 200 lbs., or ride a bicycle without falling, I would  
do both in a hearbeat.
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
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My greatest regret is that I =
never learned to ride a bike.  I grew up poor in Brooklyn--my parents =
told me at the time they were afraid I'd get hurt, but years later they =
admitted that we were too poor to be able to replace a bike if it got =
stolen (as they inevitably did in our neighborhood, even if chained in =
the basement of our tenement--and we lived on the third floor in a 2-BR =
apt, with no elevator and no room to store a bike).  I actually have a =
set of 20" training wheels on a mountain bike, but still fall down (and =
after rupturing both knee ACLs and breaking a leg, I am terrified of =
falling again).  Those training wheels make it impossible to carry the =
bike on a car rack or the rack on the front of a CTA bus.  It hurts no =
end to have people accuse me of being an environmental criminal because =
I eat meat and drive instead of bike.  If I could be a vegan and not =
balloon up over 200 lbs., or ride a bicycle without falling, I would do =
both in a hearbeat.
 
=
--Apple-Mail-174--181891930--

58) From: Brian Kamnetz
On 8/23/06, Brett Mason  wrote:
<Snip>
Brett,
Can you remind me where you live?
Thanks,
Brian

59) From: Lynne
Well, Sandy, as a kid I rode a bike - but I make my kids VERY nervous 
when I joke (believe me, I am only joking) that I might get a bike - 
I've fallen too many times, on flat terrain with no snow, ice, etc. (one 
knee has never been the same, and I usually can't handle stairs because 
of it.) With me, it's usually when I have things in my life that are 
causing me worry (of course, I can't remember when I don't have things 
to cause me worry...)
Yes, and I can relate to the stolen bike syndrome, too - I have a 
neighbor who is constantly having her, and her son's bike stolen. I 
would have given up long before she has!
Lynne
Sandy Andina wrote:
<Snip>

60) From: Bob Brashear
Lynne wrote:
<Snip>
Had mine stolen yesterday. Kid walked up into the garage and took it. 
Got a description. The cops saw the kid on the way answering the call. 
1984 Pugeot 15 speed mountain bike. Weighed a ton. Going for a new one 
this weekend.
I have some rather strong feelings that I will not voice about lower 
life forms that think they just take anything they want.
Bob

61) From: Eddie Dove
Sandy,
When I grew up, we were too poor for those types of luxuries too.  I had to
build my own from parts and pieces that I found.  I can still remember that
bike to this day ... ugly as sin, but a lot of fun ... and crashes, bruises,
cuts, etc.
Do get back on your bike ... you can learn it.  I was almost 40 years old
when I learned to ride a motorcycle.  I went to the shop, picked one out (an
inexpensive one) and had it delivered to my house with a helmet.  Strapped
on the helmet and started to learn to ride in the neighborhood ...
Others in my family that had some previous, serious injuries like you
described have opted for the adult trikes and they loved them.
Brian,
If I remember correctly, Brett lives in Cedar Rapids.
Eddie
On 8/23/06, Lynne  wrote:
<Snip>

62) From: Sandy Andina
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I'm 55.
On Aug 23, 2006, at 4:31 PM, Eddie Dove wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
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I'm 55.
On Aug 23, =
2006, at 4:31 PM, Eddie Dove wrote:
Do get back on your = bike ... you can learn it.  I was almost 40 years old when I learned = to ride a motorcycle. = --Apple-Mail-176--179393224--

63) From: Sandy Andina
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Does anyone know of any folding adult trikes (i.e.,that I can easily  
store indoors or can put on a bike rack for vacationing)? Our city  
buses have bike racks, which makes commuting easier if you're some  
distance from a bus stop).
On Aug 23, 2006, at 4:31 PM, Eddie Dove wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
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Does anyone know of any folding =
adult trikes (i.e.,that I can easily store indoors or can put on a bike =
rack for vacationing)? Our city buses have bike racks, which makes =
commuting easier if you're some distance from a bus =
stop).
On Aug 23, 2006, at 4:31 PM, Eddie Dove =
wrote:
Others in my family = that had some previous, serious injuries like you described have opted = for the adult trikes and they loved = them. = --Apple-Mail-177--179230494--

64) From: Scot Murphy
On Aug 23, 2006, at 4:38 PM, Sandy Andina wrote:
<Snip>
Looking up "folding tricycle" on Google got these:
Scot "and that was just the first page" Murphy

65) From: Aaron
They kept the fatties hidden away in europe Lynne?   Hmm and all this 
time I thought they forced them to go on the Benny Hill show... oh 
well.... better shovel faster the trough is emptying..
Aaron

66) From: Aaron
worst part about the biking nowadays is, more idiots in cars with more 
and more distractions... ie cell phones, tv's mp3 players, blackberry's 
etc etc.  now they are not even watching the road when they try to use 
you as a speed bump.
Aaron

67) From: Lynne
http://tinyurl.com/lpbxqAaron wrote:
<Snip>

68) From: Sandy Andina
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whoo-ee!!! Thanks Scot!  There go that La Marzocco and Taylor Grand  
Symphony guitar I was gonna buy......
On Aug 23, 2006, at 4:59 PM, Scot Murphy wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
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whoo-ee!!! Thanks Scot!  There =
go that La Marzocco and Taylor Grand Symphony guitar I was gonna =
buy......
On Aug 23, 2006, at 4:59 PM, Scot Murphy =
wrote:
On Aug 23, 2006, at 4:38 PM, Sandy Andina = wrote: = Does anyone know of any = folding adult trikes (i.e.,that I can easily store indoors or can put on = a bike rack for vacationing)? Our city buses have bike racks, which = makes commuting easier if you're some distance from a bus stop). = Looking up "folding tricycle" on Google got = these: <http://www.foldingtricycle.com/><http://worksmancycles.com/sho=psite_sc/store/html/media/MANUALPortotrike.pdf#search=%22folding%20tricy= cle%22> <h= ttp://www.pbwbikes.com/product_info.php/cPath/3/products_id/30> <h= ttp://www.foldingbikes.co.uk/pashley_tri1_folding_tricycle.htm> <ht= tp://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=2189247>= <http://sh=ort-stature.stores.yahoo.net/fotrbi1623in.html> <http://www.walmart.com/ca=talog/product.do?dest=9999999997&product_id=882975&sourceid== 0100000030660804602498> Scot "and that was just the first page" = Murphyhomeroast mailing listhttp://li=sts.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroastTo change your personal list settings (digest = options, vacations, unsvbscribes) go to http://=sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings = = --Apple-Mail-182--170475286--

69) From: Brett Mason
Cedar Rapids IA
Hot warm beautiful cool cold snow snow cold cold cold cool sun grass
warm warm wonderful warm hot hot humid humid humid hot hot warm
(repeat for each new year)
On 8/23/06, Brian Kamnetz  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Regards,
Brett Mason
 HomeRoast
   Zassman

70) From: Leo Zick
Im in idaho right now for work.  I guess moxies java is 'the' coffee place.
There are signs announcing the 'barista' on staff for each shift.
I asked for a latte.  The milk had no froth, the grinds came out of a big
plastic tub, and the shot poured in about 4.5 seconds.
High quality :/

71) From: Justin Marquez
On 8/23/06, Sandy Andina  wrote:
<Snip>
NOT BUYING THE TAYLOR...??  Blasphemy!!
(My Taylor is a 314CE, which started it's route down the production
path in El Cajon on 9/11/01.)
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (Snyder, TX)

72) From: Brian Kamnetz
Sandy,
Be sure to try out any tricycle before buying it. I tried a Schwin
3-wheeler about 25 years ago, and it was very difficult to peddle,
much harder than a 2-wheeler.
Brian
On 8/23/06, Sandy Andina  wrote:
<Snip>

73) From: europachris
There are some really spiffy recumbant 3 wheel bikes.  Totally not the 
old 3-wheeler of the 70's.  These are definitely geared to the serious 
rider.  Not sure of the cost, but I doubt they are cheap.  However, it 
might be a great way to get on a bike.
Recumbants in general are a lot more comfortable to ride, and in some 
cases more efficient due to the pedal motion they offer.  Easy to spend 
long hours on the bike.
I'm still a classic 'road rider' with my LeMond Buenos Aires.  I'm just 
enough in shape so I don't embarrass myself.  It's a great time to be 
out on the bike, tho.
Chris

74) From: Eddie Dove
Some of them are foldable and they have various vehicle carriers too.  Some
of the options they have are incredibled and they can get expensive.
On 8/23/06, europachris  wrote:
<Snip>

75) From: Aaron
I don't ride my bike too much outside,  what I do have is a generator 
hookup where you basically prop the bike in it and the wheel turns a 
generator and gives you about 150 ish watts for a good workout...  I use 
the gen to run the television while I am pedaling, this way i want to 
watch the tube I have to 'work at it'....  the excess juice i pump 
through my inverter and backfeed it to the rest of the house or whoever 
else on the grid happens to get the trons I moved around.  Yah kind of 
goofy but another 'motivator' to do some sort of exercise.
Aaron

76) From: Sandy Andina
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Uh, I already have (in order of purchase) the following Taylors:   
422R (x12 size, rosewood, 1996), 814ce (cocobolo, 2002), 414rce  
(rosewood, Expression System, 2003--my main performing guitar), 450  
(1996, last dreadnought 12 Taylor ever made, mahogany), and Big Baby  
(2004).
And that's in addition to my four Martins, two Gibsons, two Fenders  
(a P-Bass and a Mustang), a Peavey (fretless), a Larrivee Parlour and  
a partridge in a pear tree.
Any questions?
On Aug 23, 2006, at 8:39 PM, Justin Marquez wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
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Uh, I already have (in order of =
purchase) the following Taylors:  422R (x12 size, rosewood, 1996), =
814ce (cocobolo, 2002), 414rce (rosewood, Expression System, 2003--my =
main performing guitar), 450 (1996, last dreadnought 12 Taylor ever =
made, mahogany), and Big Baby (2004).
And that's in addition to = my four Martins, two Gibsons, two Fenders (a P-Bass and a Mustang), a = Peavey (fretless), a Larrivee Parlour and a partridge in a pear = tree.
Any = questions? On Aug 23, 2006, at 8:39 PM, Justin Marquez = wrote:
On 8/23/06, Sandy Andina <sandraandina> = wrote:  There go that La Marzocco and = Taylor Grand Symphonyguitar I was gonna = buy...... NOT = BUYING THE TAYLOR...??  = Blasphemy!! (My Taylor is a 314CE, which started it's route down = the productionpath in El Cajon on = 9/11/01.) Safe Journeys and Sweet MusicJustin Marquez (Snyder, TX)homeroast mailing listhttp://li=sts.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroastTo change your personal list settings (digest = options, vacations, unsvbscribes) go to http://=sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings = = = --Apple-Mail-189--162421143--

77) From: Sandy Andina
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They're tougher on the knees but much easier on the back, and the  
center of gravity is lower. I get a much harder workout out of my  
recumbent cycle than out of my old Tunturi. Will look into the trikes.
On Aug 23, 2006, at 8:49 PM, europachris wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
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They're tougher on the knees but =
much easier on the back, and the center of gravity is lower. I get a =
much harder workout out of my recumbent cycle than out of my old =
Tunturi. Will look into the trikes.
On Aug 23, 2006, at =
8:49 PM, europachris =
wrote:
There are some really spiffy = recumbant 3 wheel bikes.  = Totally not the old 3-wheeler of the 70's.  These are definitely geared = to the serious rider.  = Not sure of the cost, but I doubt they are cheap.  However, it might be a great = way to get on a bike.Recumbants in general are a lot = more comfortable to ride, and in some cases more efficient due to the = pedal motion they offer.  = Easy to spend long hours on the = bike. = --Apple-Mail-190--162281296--

78) From: Tom Ogren
+OT--Neato- I've got a '96 Lemond Buenos Aires (candyapple red...love the
old school steel...feels like a bike, ya know?) also have a Taylor 410
(dreadnought style-circa 1997). Felt compelled to speak up...back to lurk
mode now. Oh, I'll be pressing some Kenya Kith. & Mex. Oaxaca tomorrow
morning. Yum
TO in VA
On 8/23/06, europachris  wrote:
<Snip>

79) From: Brett Mason
My Takamine is jealous of the Taylors, feeling kind of left out too...
 My Charvel is asking if you have any electrics in there.  My Aspen,
well it doesn't know any good guitars, but likes to hang out with
beat-up six-string campfire axes.  My Yamaha, well it knows it is the
start-up guitar for a generation of John Denver wannabees.  My
Washburn, well it's asking if the Charvel's friends have any cheap
neighbors.  My Samick, well it is just wondering why the Washburn
won't hang with it.
My 13 and 10 year olds are now playing electrics.  We also have a
Coronet, Trumpet, Trombone, Flute, Yamaha electric keyboard and an old
Yamaha upright.  Oh, and the Premier Cabria drumset likes to jam
too...
But it's about the coffee!
Brett
On 8/23/06, Sandy Andina  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Regards,
Brett Mason
 HomeRoast
   Zassman

80) From: Sandy Andina
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Ah, those pre-98 Taylor dreads--big square shoulders, and lots of oomph!
On Aug 23, 2006, at 9:29 PM, Tom Ogren wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
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Ah, those pre-98 Taylor =
dreads--big square shoulders, and lots of oomph!
On Aug 23, =
2006, at 9:29 PM, Tom Ogren wrote:
+OT--Neato- = I've got a '96 Lemond Buenos Aires (candyapple red...love the old school = steel...feels like a bike, ya know?) also have a Taylor 410 (dreadnought = style-circa 1997). Felt compelled to speak up...back to lurk mode now. = Oh, I'll be pressing some Kenya Kith. & Mex. Oaxaca tomorrow = morning. Yum TO in VA On = 8/23/06, europachris = <europachris = > wrote:There are some really spiffy recumbant 3 = wheel bikes.  Totally not the old 3-wheeler of the 70's.  Thes= e are definitely geared to the serious rider.  Not sure of the = cost, but I doubt they are cheap.  However, it might be a great = way to get on a bike. Recumbants in general are a lot more = comfortable to ride, and in some cases more efficient due to the = pedal motion they offer.  Easy to spend long hours on the = bike. I'm still a classic 'road rider' with my LeMond Buenos = Aires.  I'm just enough in shape so I don't embarrass = myself.  It's a great time to be out on the bike, = tho. Chris

81) From: Sandy Andina
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On Aug 23, 2006, at 9:39 PM, Brett Mason wrote:
<Snip>
Yup--the Mustang, the Danelectro (which I forgot to mention) and the  
two basses (Fender Precision and Peavey Fretless) are all electrics.   
And all the acoustics except the Martin D-18GE and Taylor Big Baby  
have pickups installed (well, the Gibson LG-0 only has one of those  
little Shadow stick-ons).
<Snip>
Ah, yes--a Yamaha FG-110 was my first steel-string!
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
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On Aug 23, 2006, =
at 9:39 PM, Brett Mason wrote:

My Charvel is asking if you have any electrics in = there.  
Yup--the Mustang, the Danelectro = (which I forgot to mention) and the two basses (Fender Precision and = Peavey Fretless) are all electrics.  And all the acoustics except the = Martin D-18GE and Taylor Big Baby have pickups installed (well, the = Gibson LG-0 only has one of those little Shadow = stick-ons). My Yamaha, well it knows it is = thestart-up guitar for a generation = of John Denver wannabees. Ah, yes--a = Yamaha FG-110 was my first steel-string! = --Apple-Mail-192--158515242--

82) From: europachris
 I'm not sure what year mine is, I bought it used (very slightly) from a buddy of mine who was moving up to a titanium Lightspeed.  I think it's around an '00 to 02' model.
Indeed, I love the ride of the steel frame.  I have a '94 Trek 1200 that is just a punishing ride, and it even has a steel fork.  The LeMond rides like a Cadillac, by comparison.
Chris

83) From: Tom Ulmer
This is a design factor that raises metabolism and keeps pedestrians more
nimble.

84) From: Leo Zick
Oh man the things I woulda done.

85) From: Leo Zick
But youre trying, right? And you feel better, right? 
That's whats important!!  That's great news.. Wish I could walk to work :)

86) From: Leo Zick
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
and the 'coffee' shops.  ;)  
From: Tom Bellhouse [mailto:altoid] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 10:51 AM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +OT: And they call it coffee
Chris, like you, I spent time in the Netherlands.  I think your reason #5 is
the key -- people walk or ride bikes everywhere.  The country is made for
walking, with hike and bike paths everywhere.  It would be entirely possible
to walk the length or breadth of the country on established walking paths. 
 
As for Dutch eating habits, they're abominable.  Greasy fries,  huge
desserts, mucho starch, and a national love of chocolate.  The national
dishs are an Indonesian pig-out called reistaffel and a horrible green pea
and potato stew called hotsput that looks pre-digested.  And, in many
cities, there are McDonalds that are well patronized.  So again, I think the
diference is exercise.
 
Did I mention that I love the Netherlands?  Most civilized place I have ever
visited -- except for the food.
 
Tom in GA

87) From: Leo Zick
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
ya, east coast life is pretty pathetic as compared to west coast.. and being
in idaho right now, except for the greater amount of manual labor they enjoy
(working on cars, houses, etc), a healthy lifestyle is nonexistant..  
From: Michael Wascher [mailto:wascher] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 12:33 PM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +OT: And they call it coffee
In NJ!? Must be a different NJ than the one I live in.
Not a sidewalk in sight where I live, and walking or riding along the edge
of the street is suicidal. Somebody ramming a tree in our yard or smashing
our mailbox is almost an annual event. Actually, there was a gap of over 2
years before the most recent incident, but the driver made up for it -- took
out our mailbox, neighbors fence, sheared a fire hydrant, another mailbox,
uprooted shrubs, took out the next neighbor's fence, headed across the
street, targeted another mailbox, smashed through a telephone pole
(completely severed it) and finally stopped in some brush.
I'm going to walk along the side of the road with only a yellow stripe
marking the barrier between pedestrians & these idiots? You must be kidding!
Folks here pay somebody to do their lawn & housework. Drive everywhere. Then
pay to go to a gym. 
On 8/23/06, europachris  wrote: 
 Yes, the East Coast is quite different.  I lived on Long Island for many
years and my parents are currently in New Jersey.  People do walk and bike
more there, but things are more closely spaced and it's more possible.
 
Now we live in the upper Midwest (N. Illinois and lived near Milwaukee for
10 years).  Oh yeah, I could always tell I'm back in the USA when I'd get
off the plane.....Wisconsin is not known for it's slim people.
Chris

88) From: Leo Zick
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
im italian... pasta and bread are my friends :D  
From: europachris [mailto:europachris] 
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 10:00 PM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +OT: And they call it coffee

89) From: Leo Zick
You remove almost everything I wrote and say I lack compassion?!
Do you know the extent that I try to help my sister?  I've taken her to the
gym and written customized programs for her; ive helped her with her diet
and the proper foods to eat, etc.
I also CONGRATULATED Vicki on her weight loss efforts!  That was sincere, no
compassion needed since she made the effort to better herself.
Everyone can improve themselves somehow. Those who smoke make an effort to
quit when they are ready.  Those who drink, who don't know how to drive, etc
etc.  Why should those who are overweight be different and deserve
compassion?  I'm not perfect, if you critisize me and tell me im harsh, then
I consider it, and try to improve.  My wife feels the same - im too blunt.
Im sorry, I just don't like to be wordy, so I state whats on my mind.
However, since shes noticed it, I do try harder.  (maybe not right now
though, lol)
When theres a huge woman on an escalator blocking the way for others can
pass and walk up, I should feel sorry for her? When I'm walking through a
food court and all the fat people are at mcdonalds instead of smoothie king,
I should be compassionate??
I am not mean spirited; I have a drive in life, part of which is take
advantage of those choices offered to me.  Granted, there are things that
are very hard for me to become motivated to do, but I use the energy for
things that I do enjoy as a goal to help achieve those things that arent as
much 'fun'.  (oh man, id love a good shot of espresso right now. Ok, ill
finish this ironing, ill jog around the block, ill practice my golf swing,
etc, then I 'deserve' it; and it tastes so much more rewarding)
Anyway, I really don't mean to offend you. I understand that its hard, I
lack drive all the time. You need to find it, and really want it.  I don't
think I have a mean spirit, but I am very spirited. :(

90) From: Leo Zick
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Very well said!
 
Its sort of pathetic how America is the 'land of the free', and the only
ones to harness that opportunity are the immigrants.  While they capitalize
on it and work their asses off, its easier for us to sit back, eat their
food, and complain.
:p  
From: europachris [mailto:europachris] 
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 9:44 PM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +OT: And they call it coffee
I don't think anyone here is lacking compassion.  
The point Leo was trying to make is that there are FAR to many Americans
that come up with excuses as to why they are drunks, on dope, fat,
unemployed, divorced, etc. and try to blame their problems on society, the
TV, Rush Limbaugh, George Bush, Jesse Jackson, etc.
 
Now, there ARE people who fit in the above categories who genuinely have had
a setback in life due to circumstances beyond control.  And it is those
people I will actively go out of my way to help in any way I can.
 
But, the lazy slob who just wants to suck of the government tit and complain
that it's everyone else's fault can just go pound sand in my book.  
 
I was a fat slob once.  It was my fault.  I did something about it.  I lost
100 pounds.  Magic?  Nope.  Pills?  Nope.  Good eating and excercise.
Period.  
I'm blessed with a good job, great wife, a great son.  I am indeed
fortunate.  I also bust my a$$ every day at work, and so does my wife, so we
can have a nice home, etc. etc.
America is the land of opportunity and the land of the free.  We can do
anything we please and be as successful as we wish (or total failures).
What burns my butt is the lazy 'have nots' trying to run my life.
 
 I'm hoping I don't start a big political discussion out of this topic.
Chris

91) From: Tom Bellhouse
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
You know, most coffee shops also sell coffee!  And fresh squeezed orange =
juice.  Like I said, civilized country!  
BTW, I always loved the little cups the Dutch serve coffee in.  Plus the =
fact that you always get a little "stroopwaffel" to go with it.
Tom

92) From: Lynne
I'm sorry, but I can't deal with these rants right now.
I am glad you have shown compassion to others in so many ways. 
Congratualations. But step back and reread what you have written on the 
internet - these are printed words, devoid of facial expression, or any 
other connection to human-ness.
Yes, your words make you appear mean spirited. Most likely you are not 
as your words make you appear (my son is very much like this, and he has 
a good heart, also. He has ADD, which makes him extremely impatient and 
blunt.)
But I spent last night rushing my dog to the ER in Boston, apparently 
she's eaten something toxic or poisoned, and still can't come home, yet. 
I've been out all day, and need to leave to see her, for the one hr that 
Angell Memorial allows.
So pardon me - now I am blunt. I just don't have the patience - I cannot 
even read your words right now.
Lynne
Leo Zick wrote:
<Snip>

93) From: Vicki Smith
I have to agree with Lynne here, Leo. You may be patting yourself on the 
back for having congratulated me on my weight loss, but, even if I 
valued your approval or praise, you certainly managed to take back any 
warm fuzzies I might have been feeling when you  wrote this sentence in 
the same note:
"On the negative side - it should have never got that bad to begin with. 
When you see a roast being burnt before your eyes, you turn off the 
roaster to salvage the bean!"
Maybe this will help you see what Lynne was saying, but maybe not.
Vicki
PS: Find something you really like about your sister, and build your 
relationship with her around her strengths, not around your desire to 
address what you see as her flaws. Then divert all your healthy life 
style passion into work in your community to get daily PE back in the 
schools, or more bike paths built, or more nutritious school lunches.
Lynne wrote:
<Snip>

94) From: Brett Mason
OR, you could move to Stepford, where everything is in order....
Brett
On 8/24/06, Vicki Smith  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Brett

95) From: Eddie Dove
Leo,
We'll keep the light on for ya ...
Eddie
On 8/24/06, Brett Mason  wrote:
<Snip>

96) From: Aaron
I hear bellvue is a nice place too... the lithium milkshakes make one 
feel so ... so.... loved.. yah that's the word...
==========
It was written:
OR, you could move to Stepford, where everything is in order....
Brett

97) From: Leo Zick
Sorry about your dog, my friend lost hers a few days ago.. :(

98) From: Leo Zick
I said I was blunt, and sorry for being too harsh. The only way change will
be made is for you to want it, and hurting peoples feelings probably wont
help get you there any quicker either, so forgive me for that..

99) From: Leo Zick
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
lol :)  
From: Eddie Dove [mailto:southcoastcoffeeroaster] 
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 5:13 PM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +OT: And they call it coffee
Leo,
We'll keep the light on for ya ...
Eddie
On 8/24/06, Brett Mason  wrote: 
OR, you could move to Stepford, where everything is in order....
Brett
On 8/24/06, Vicki Smith  wrote:
<Snip>
 
<Snip>
unsvbscribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings 
<Snip>
--
Cheers,
Brett


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