I am starting to get upgrade fever for a dual boiler. I was wondering if anyone on the list has an Expobar Brewtus or a La Spaziale S1 and how they like the PID controls? Clif - SomeWhere in Florida with Rocky the Cardi and Garfield the Tabby Odie PWC at the Bridge 01/18/2006http://www.freewebs.com/aesk/inmemoriam.htm
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Clif .... I too am from somewhere in Florida .... I also have an S1. = Excellent machine. I had a Silvia prior to the S1. I really got tired of = the single boiler when making several cups for friends, good learning = machine though. The S1 one is a pretty well designed machine. It has = many override adjustments that can customize most everything your little = heart desires. The only thing I changed out was the frothing head. Not = really sure I needed to do that, once I got that process clear in my = mind. There are a few forums out there that deal directly with the setup = and operation of the S1. I had to send it back one time .... for a = problem with the boiler temp control. It was still under warranty and = they, Chriss Coffee, resolved the issue and has been working great every = since. Now ... that being said. There are also some real nice Group 61 = Units out there now as well ... and offer some very nice capability. = The only thing is ... they are almost the same price !!! Tough decision = I know, but I do like the dual boiler. Later, Bob
Detailed reviews of both:http://home-barista.com/brewtus-buyers-guide.htmlhttp://home-barista.com/s1-buyers-guide.html Here's a HB forum discussion titled Expobar Brewtus II vs. La Spaziale S1http://home-barista.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t20Both machines have there pros and cons. Neither the S1 or Brewtus have PID temp control. Electronic on/off type temp control with 1C deadband resolution yes, not PID. (same boiler temp control resolution attainable with 0.5bar deadband pstat like the Barksdale I put in my Bricoletta, though HX not DB machine) Some have upgraded their Brewtus's to PID control, don't know of anyone mod'ing their S1 with PID. What machine are you using now? When I upgraded from Silvia thought I didn't want a HX because of HX "surf". Surfed Silvia two years before adding PID and swore I'd never surf again! After thoroughly researching found I was wrong. HX surf vs Silvia surf apples and oranges. Chris Tacy's professional's review of the Bricoletta one of the articles that showed me the HX light.http://home-barista.com/pros-perspective-briccoletta.htmlKona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before. <Snip> <Snip>
I have a Brewtus. I wrote a review of it a few months ago on this forum. The Brewtus does not come with a PID but some people have added them also some have added rotary pumps. Seehttp://groups.google.com/group/brewtus I have had no trouble with the machine in the 4 months that I own it. I also have had only 1 sink shot ( my own fault) and multiple I heard the angels sing shot and at least one G-d shot. Couldn't be happier with any other machine. Out of the box it does have some shot creep. But just plain Mike and Mike McKoffee fixed it in no time . Just a minor modification.
Oh I should have added. As far as I am concerned adding a PID or a rotary pump to a Brewtus would be just gilding the Lilly
My first espresso machine was a Solis Master 5000 and right now I have = an ECM Giotto Premium. Still miss the superauto in the morning. I like Americanos on the way to work and that machine did them right. I = couldn't justify the countertop space after I got the Giotto so I gave the Solis Master 5K to a friend at work for his 60th b-day. I used it less and = less as I got up to speed on the Giotto. Never really liked the idea of an HX, but the dual boilers were just too much bucks at the time and many required plumbing which I did not want = to do. I was looking at a single boilers ( the Isomac Zaffiro ) and was intending to PID it, but most of the reviews I read said I would have = been left with marginal steam and splattering hot water. I like my hot water dispenser so the splattering they described, along with some quality = control issues with the pump, steered me away from that machine. I have thought of building a coffee cart and use a flojet to get water = from a 5 gallon to the S-1, which would get around the plumping issues. The = cart would also allow me to move the machine around in my small kitchen and = free up more counter top space so I may eventually do that anyway. I live in = a house by myself so the noise issue of a vibe pump vs rotary really = doesn't matter to me. I'm still leaning more towards the Brewtus. Clif - SomeWhere in Florida with Rocky the Cardi and Garfield the Tabby Odie PWC at the Bridge 01/18/2006http://www.freewebs.com/aesk/inmemoriam.htm
While the brewtus has been one of my dream machines, im a bit hesitant lately, ive seen a few people suddenly have controller issues with it and other expobar models. I hope its isolated, but really makes me nervous with such expensive repairs..
I have been using an Isomac Zaffiro for over 2.5 years with perfect success. There is enough steam to do several cappies in a row or power a small locomotive. According to my talking digital thermometer, the temp stability is very good for a single boiler machine. Aside from the heat up time to get steam and cool down time to return to regular shots, I could not ask for a better machine. Dan
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. I have a couple of beans that I can get great results with my Giotto. However some of the beans have an optimum brew temp that is slightly = lower and trying to hit that temp constantly with an HX machine is touch and = go for me. Clif - SomeWhere in Florida with Rocky the Cardi and Garfield the Tabby Odie PWC at the Bridge 01/18/2006http://www.freewebs.com/aesk/inmemoriam.htm
The Zaff had really great reviews on CoffeeGeek. I think they did = mention that they ran into a bad lot of thermostats, but as long as you buy from = a reputable dealer you could get it repaired. That is the type of part = that is usually purchased and installed not built by the end manufacturer so I'm sure other brands has similar problems unless it was a handling and = storage issue of the parts. I did think about getting the Quick Mill "Alexia" = and putting a PID in it. Looks like it is very similar to the Zaff. A 750 ml boiler tied directly to an E61 group. I rarely do Cappas, I am mostly an espresso or Americano kind of guy so a machine targeted to an espresso purist would do me just fine. As a single person who rarely entertains = it would have more than enough steam power to keep up with my caffeine tolerance level! The single boiler is great for temperature stability on shots, it just has the main drawback of the ramp up time to steamer = temps and that the refill water is cold so you have could have to wait a bit between shots if you were pounding them out at a party. I did read that getting hot water from the steamer wand caused some spurting issues that = you had to be careful about. Have you had that problem? Clif - SomeWhere in Florida with Rocky the Cardi and Garfield the Tabby Odie PWC at the Bridge 01/18/2006http://www.freewebs.com/aesk/inmemoriam.htm
Hi: I just bought an S1 because I am developing a 53mm version of my themofilter. I have extensive experience with double boiler machines. I did rather exhaustive testing of the LM GS3 and I own a 2-group LM Linea, which is heavily modified for improved temperature stability. I'm in a good position to make comparisons of coffee taste with my LM. In my limited experience with the S1, I find it to be very easy to use. I was able to dial in the brew temperature quickly, to a temperature setting that seems reasonable compared to the brew temps I use on my Linea for the coffee that i am using right now. I don't have quantitative temperature reproducibility data on the S1 yet, but I will in a couple of weeks, once I have the prototype 53mm thermofilters done. In the mean time I am going by taste and look of crema. The S1 is easier to use than the e-61 machines with which I have experience. The crema color and back to back taste consistency is good and more reproducible than e-61 machines I have used. I should mention here that the machine on which these opinions are based suffered shipping damage, and I had to send it back. I now have a replacement machine and will get more experience with it. The S1 seems like a pretty solid machine so far, particularly for the money. Interior layout and design is very slick. Electronic control of the temperature seems good, but I can't back up that statement with numbers, as i already mentioned. Setting the temperature is a little kludgey compared to just dialing in the number on a PID controller, but it's easy enough to do and works fine. -Greg At 06:47 AM 9/9/2006, you wrote: <Snip>
Greg, Thanks for the report. I am always interested in info on the S1. Les On 9/13/06, Greg Scace wrote: <Snip>
Hey Greg, Is it too early to draw any comparisons between the S1 and the GS3? Thanks, Jim On Sep 13, 2006, at 9:18 AM, Greg Scace wrote: <Snip>
No, probably not. I can tell you for sure that the GS3 steaming is waaay better. The GS3 steam boiler allows boiler pressures over 2 bars, which makes for hellacious steam, almost as good as a 2-group Linea. The GS3 has feedwater preheat that is very sophisticated, so that off idle performance is very similar to performance during continuous duty. It's an interesting exercise for me to approach the machine "flying blind". My usual approach to a new machine is to set the brew temperature and dynamic brew pressure to numbers that I know will work for the coffee I'm currently drinking. Then I learn how to keep the machine at those temps through group flushing regimen. Once I know this information I can pretty much go to war without having to think very much. My S1 is set to 97C boiler temperature. That's 206.6 Deg F. Based on taste and crema color I reckon that the brew temp at the top of the coffee is around 201, which is the brew temp of my Linea. FWIW, my Linea's PID setting is somewhere around 207 degrees. There's a fair amount of temperature difference between the body of the boiler and the group, even in a machine that has very active convection in the group neck (the so-called saturated group). My Linea is modified so that effects of relatively cold group solenoid and flowmeters are completely mitigated, and thermal stability is on the order of the GS3. I suspect, based on the S1 layout, that there is some temperature drop between the main volume of the boiler and the group, although it looks to me that La Spaz has done a good job of thermally anchoring the group to the boiler. I'm guessing first shots are slightly cold unless steps are taken to warm the dispersion block. Subsequent shots probably are slightly warmer. I've programmed my single dose to be a 2-ounce group flush. Also, compared to the GS3, the S1 control system is less sophisticated and boiler volumes are smaller. It's entirely possible to achieve sub 1 degree temperature stability and reproducibility under all usage conditions with a very small boiler, such as the one on the S1. However it requires that the feedwater be preheated and that the temperature control system be more sophisticated than on / off control, such as I think is provided on the S1. I suspect that when I run the WBC protocol on the S1 I will find that it suffers during the continuous duty part of the WBC test. The GS3, on the other hand, is capable of handling any duty cycle thrown at it. I'll know more in a couple of weeks. I'm just getting acquainted with it now. Unfortunately I had to sell my Astra with the integrated group flushing temperature probe. -Greg At 03:44 AM 9/14/2006, you wrote: <Snip>