HomeRoast Digest


Topic: How important is a good grinder for non-espresso? (64 msgs / 1886 lines)
1) From: David Morgenlender
I currently use a Braun burr grinder.  I brew drip with paper filter, =
mokapot,
or Aeropress (& occasionally a French Press).  I've read some raves about
improved flavor using a Rocky (or better), in a few cases for =
non-espresso.  But
I'm not sure what original grinder was being used, etc.  Is upgrading to =
a Rocky
likely to yield a noticable improvement in flavor, given how I'm brewing?=
  If
so, I'm curious what about the improved grind causes this?
BTW, I figure that at some point (in the near future, hopefully), I'll =
get into
brewing espresso, at which point I know I'll need a better grinder than =
what I
have now.  So I must decide whether to have 2 "discussions" with my wife =
about
relatively expensive purchases starting sooner, or 1 "discussion" about a
definitely expensive purchase starting later! :)
Dave
==========================
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Dave Morgenlender
e-mail: dmorgen
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2) From: Sean Cary
I had a braun $30 dollar burr grinder, a few months back I upgraded to a
Kitchen Aid and noticed a great deal of improvement in my Press and Drip -
the consistent grind improved the clarity and consistency of my coffee.  
Sean

3) From: miKe mcKoffee
Sean explained the taste improvement well. Even grind important any and all
brewing methods for the best cup possible. If planning to get into espresso
you'll want to go a step higher than the Kitchen-Aid/Virtuoso/Infinity class
grinders however. 
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
<Snip>

4) From: Brett Mason
Choice of grinder depends on whether you are working for the best flavor or
the cheapest expenditure.  Any grinder can pummel the bean small enough to
brew some brown liquid from it.  The whirly-blade grinder is particularly
good at this, and will also produce the dust that makes coffee taste very
bitter.
If you are seeking excellent tasting coffee, get a quality burr grinder
which will actually shave the bean without creating the dust.  Sweet Marias
sells these for a very fair price.
Personally I use
  a Cory electric burr grinder for the morning drip,
  a Zassenhaus mill for French Press or Vacpot, and
  a Rocky for my espresso.
Regards,
Tastin Great,
Brett
On 9/19/06, David Morgenlender  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

5) From: Aaron
I use a zass hand grinder for work, and a maestro for at home for the 
most part.   sometimes I use my jolly at home but that thing will suck 
in small kitchen appliances if you are not careful..
The grinder does make a difference.  A friend who I supply with coffee 
used to use the whirly blade and would always ask why his coffee never 
tasted as good as when I made it, and id tell him it's the grinder... 
finally he broke down and bought a real grinder and the coffee has 
improved greatly tastewise. (that and actually heating up the water past 
200 before brewing)
I know it just seems that something 'as simple' as a grinder can not 
possibly make that huge of a difference, but there has been post after 
post of folks finally getting a good grinder and saying OMG I can not 
believe what I have been missing!!
Conical burr grinders are classified as 'the best' ones to use... you 
can get them at a steal sometimes.
Aaron

6) From: Tom Ogren
Consider each individual particle of coffee in the batch you are brewing.
Each little granule has an "optimum brew time"; the point at which the
flavorful coffee oils have been extracted from the granule and nothing else
has had time to leech out of the bean. Once those oils are removed from the
grounds, additional time in the water will render bitter flavors into your
brew.
The optimum brew time for smaller particles is shorter than that of larger
particles, so if you have small and large particles mixed together in the
same brew, it is impossible to attain the optimum time for each individual
coffee ground. The resulting cup will be either under-extracted,
over-extracted, or both at once. A uniform grind ensures the possibiltiy
that each coffee ground can be extracted to the same degree; hopefully to
that "optimum" degree, at which all of (but only) the flavorful oils are
removed by the water.
TO in VA
On 9/19/06, David Morgenlender  wrote:
<Snip>

7) From: raymanowen
Dave-
Just think, How much do you enjoy coffee-
not just *coffee,* as in the stale brew somebody is paid to make for you-
and not the Disneyland brew unavoidable when your grinder gives a variety
grind, whatever your setting-
but The Nectar of the Beans that is only possible when you refine every step
of your brewing process.
You couldn't do any better than sourcing your green coffee at Sweet Maria's.
What you do with it when you get it is a watershed.
In the grinding step, you obviously want the correct particulate size to use
in the succeeding brew steps. And you might want to vary the size slightly
to test the difference  it makes. That trial might fail for two reasons:
   1. ) - Inspect your grind with a 10X loupe at any grind setting-
   you'll see dust and various size coffee rubble (The different sizes extract
   differently.)
   2. ) - Not many steps, or just one for each brew style (Like the
   public grocery grinders.)
Ask yourself- "How much am I willing to spend feeding my Land Barge, after I
bought it?"  Every time you drive it- It's The Land Barge, and drive it or
not, you gotta insure it-
Your coffee can be a Cadillac, a Rolls Royce or a Porsche or a B-58 with the
afterburners lit. And you can park it for several months until the mood
strikes for a particular ride.
Now, what is "Cheap enough to get by?" Good equipment in home use will last
a very long time. And your Land Barge?
BTW- who is it that needs the new home sewing machine for ~$10K ?
QED - RayO, aka Opa!
On 9/19/06, David Morgenlender  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
"When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the Mighty
Wichita (ex- NYC Paramount) WurliTzer- 1976

8) From: Brett Mason
Where is Pecan Jim when you need him?
Brett
On 9/19/06, David Morgenlender  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

9) From: Maryann & Dave Schellenberg
That's a good theoretical basis. The problem is, no grinder produces a 
uniform grind.
Go back into the message archives, and you will find people with the 
venerated Rocky saying that they get some dust in their grind.
So the uniformity produced by better grinders is a matter of degree, not 
an absolute.
And, it's difficult to measure the degree of improvement of one person's 
Mazzer Mini over another's Cunil Tranquilo.
Furthermore, the degree of uniformity may be quite different at espresso 
grinds versus French Press grinds for the same grinder.
I've looked for answers to this question, and came away believing it's a 
crap shoot. Pay the money and roll the dice.
Dave S.
Tom Ogren wrote:
<Snip>

10) From: Brett Mason
Try Folgers - truly a very consistent grind...
On 9/19/06, Maryann & Dave Schellenberg  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

11) From: Maryann & Dave Schellenberg
Proving you can sift to get consistency.
Dave S.
Brett Mason wrote:
<Snip>

12) From: miKe mcKoffee
Proves nothing of the sort. Merely proves Brett can say Folgers has very
consistent grind.
Sure, evenness of grind is "only" a matter of degree. And the degree of
variation differs greatly between low end and higher end grinders. Believe
what you will, taste difference is real. Taste difference is very real
comparing the same grinder with worn versus new burrs too. Maybe not much
difference between a Cunil Tranquillo and a Mazzer Mini as far as grind
quality, maybe no difference at all between those two examples. Yet evenness
of grind is only one of the factors in comparing grinders. Mazzers are able
to adjust grind to a much finer degree than a Tranquillo and hence overall
better grinders. And yes grinding for Press Pot with a Rocky with new burrs
will still produce some sludge, even with finer Swiss Gold plunger, albeit
much much less than from a whirly chop or cheap burr grinder.
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
<Snip>

13) From: Les
Ah the Grinder discussion is back.  I like my Mazzer Major.  I really
enjoyed Mike McKoffee's Bric, but when it comes to upgrade fever, it
isn't for an espresso machine.  As much as I liked the Bric,  I am
lusting after a Mazzer Kony.  Check this baby out!http://www.espressoparts.com/product/MAZZER_KONY Now that is a
grinder!  It isn't even the biggest and baddest conical grinder.  If
you want that one check this out!http://www.espressoparts.com/product/MAZZER_ROBUR The Kony isn't any
more than a good HX machine!  If I upgrade anything in my system it is
going to be adding a Kony.   That is how important I think the grinder
is.  You can have everything right and lose it all in the grind.  How
cool with that Kony look next to my Olympia Cremina!  However, with
everything else, I think Major is safe at our house for now.
Les aka Dr. Crema.
On 9/19/06, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>

14) From: Steve Hay
On 9/19/06, David Morgenlender  wrote:
<Snip>
Unlike many on the list, I only have a small amount of empirical knowledge
to form a basis for opinion.
Going from a whrily blade grinder to a cheap Cuisinart burr grinder--small
difference, but noticable.
Going from a cheap burr grinder to a Mazzer Mini--large difference.
The best way to describe the difference is, as another poster suggested,
"clarity" of the cup.  The flavors just seem less obscured and muddled.
Makes sense if you consider what is happening.  Less overextraction occurs.
My gut says you could probably pick up a SM+ and get 98% of the benefit as
compared to other grinders for drip.  However, one thing nice about the
Rocky or Mazzer is that you should never have a (rational) need to upgrade
your grinder, ever.
-- 
Steven Hay
hay.steve -AT- gmail.com
Barry Paradox: Consider k to be the greatest element of the set of natural
numbers whose description require maximum of 50 words: "(k+1) is a natural
number which requires more than 50 words to describe it."

15) From: Jeff Cozad
Quoting Brett Mason :
<Snip>
I didn't think that this thread warranted the use of the "F" word. :)
Jeff C

16) From: Leo Zick
i dont know to what level the reviews have been based on, but i havent  
really heard 'negative' things about the new kitchen aid proline  
grinder, and its fairly inexpensive too..
Quoting miKe mcKoffee :
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l
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ss
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17) From: Leo Zick
i really dont want to invest more $ on another coffee related  
accessory now, since all my major coffee items have been bought this  
year, but, this statement rings true.  i use a 'magic bullet' for my  
FP and one cup drip coffees. im not happy with the results. maybe i  
can take out my old mill and start hand grinding, but man, that thing  
takes like 10 minutes just for a cup!  ugh. lol
Quoting Brett Mason :
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r
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18) From: Leo Zick
im assuming 'hand grinder' is relative. this does, however, give me a  
great idea.  im sure it exists b/c im always about 10 yrs behind on my  
inventions.. how about a 'pepper mill' burr grinder?  :)
Quoting Aaron :
<Snip>

19) From: Leo Zick
has anyone ever told you that you talk in riddles?
Quoting raymanowen:
<Snip>
ep
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s.
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se
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act
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 I
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20) From: Brett Mason
Touche - you're right!
My point is that the forged steel conical burrs are more consistent than the
cheaper plastic burr grinders, and far moreso than the whirleygig
grinders....
Brett
On 9/19/06, Maryann & Dave Schellenberg  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

21) From: Tom Ulmer
You are likely to see some improvement in flavor. Whether or not this is
simply your mind rationalizing the purchase with your taste buds is open for
debate. 
The fact of the matter is that you can make wonderful tasting coffee with
even the simplest of implements given the proper attention.

22) From: miKe mcKoffee
Negatives on the Kitchen Aid Proline don't come in until attempting to use
it for espresso grinding, then it's marginal at best. For other grinding
duties it seems a very good grinder.
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
<Snip>

23) From: miKe mcKoffee
While true quality fresh roast ground with a whirly chop or even mortar and
pestle will taste far superior to stale pre-ground dreg, that is not the
same as tasting the best it can be. 
As far as rationalized taste improvements, ever hear of blind cup
comparisons?
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
<Snip>

24) From: Leo Zick
oh, im sorry, i thought the OP was asking about brewed coffee.
Quoting miKe mcKoffee :
<Snip>
t
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25) From: Tom Ulmer
I am quite pleased with its espresso grinding duties and it fits quite well
in a home environment. I would most assuredly not recommend it for a
commercial application.

26) From: miKe mcKoffee
Agreed, OP said currently not grinding for espresso but also said quote:
"BTW, I figure that at some point (in the near future, hopefully), I'll get
into brewing espresso, at which point I know I'll need a better grinder than
what I have now."
Therefore made sense to me to be discussing grinders that'll also do well
for espresso grinder duties.
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
<Snip>

27) From: Leo Zick
so, there exists a magical machine that can truly switch from an  
espresso grind to a FP, with ease and accuracy?? Do tell!
Quoting miKe mcKoffee :
<Snip>
t
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an
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28) From: Tom Ulmer
Do you have data to present on the blind cup comparisons?

29) From: Leo Zick
only a tongue and tastebuds to be envied by the gods!!  (lol, sorry,  
couldnt resist)
Quoting Tom Ulmer :
<Snip>
d
<Snip>
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<Snip>

30) From: Brett Mason
Rocky.
Brett
On 9/20/06, Leo Zick  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

31) From: miKe mcKoffee
Where the KitchenAid Proline falls short for serious espresso duties is in
adjustability, having only 15 stepped settings from finest espresso/turkish
to coarsest Press etc. OTH KitchenAid has done a good job with usability
design AND equally or more importantly IMO having the burrs available user
replaceable. Sold as a set for $24.95 +s/h including four new retaining
screws.
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
<Snip>

32) From: miKe mcKoffee
This topic has come up every few months the 6 years I've been on the List
with importance of quality grinders virtually always resisted by newer
people. I was no different buying 4 burr grinders in a year before Rocky and
later adding Mazzer SJ. Search the archives if you want copious comparisons
made by numerous people. I really don't care what grinder someone uses, I'm
not selling 'em. 
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
<Snip>

33) From: Eddie Dove
With respect to the KitchenAid Proline, one can find directions on the web
to to make the adjustments of this grinder stepless ... done at your own
risk and voids warranty, of course.  Stock, it does have relatively few
steps for adjustment as pointed out by miKe.
KitchenAid does stand by their product though ...
On 9/20/06, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>

34) From: miKe mcKoffee
No "magical" grinder but many that fit the bill. Yes Rocky or Cunil or
Mazzer or MaCap (stepped) or about any high end grinder that doesn't use a
worm gear adjustment easy to switch between grind needs for different
brewing methods. Ask Les how "difficult" it is using his Mazzer Major for
switching grinds for other than espresso, piece of cake.
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
	From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Brett Mason
	Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 7:39 AM
	
	Rocky.
	 
	Brett
	
	On 9/20/06, Leo Zick  wrote: 
		so, there exists a magical machine that can truly switch
from an
		espresso grind to a FP, with ease and accuracy?? Do tell! 
		
		Quoting miKe mcKoffee :
		
		> Agreed, OP said currently not grinding for espresso but
also said quote:
		> "BTW, I figure that at some point (in the near future,
hopefully), I'll get 
		> into brewing espresso, at which point I know I'll need a
better grinder than
		> what I have now."
		>
		> Therefore made sense to me to be discussing grinders
that'll also do well
		> for espresso grinder duties. 
		>
		> Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
		> URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:
		>http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htm 
		> Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary
path. To know I must
		> first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each
Personal enlightenment
		> found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who
have gone before. 
		>
		>>

35) From: Leo Zick
i agree in the importance of a grinder as well.
i was under the impression that any good burr grinder doesnt like to  
have large adjustments made, as it can affect the zero point, rocky  
included.  ive never tried one though, so dont know. if it does work,  
thats great news, and not really a large investment at all, since its  
the only grinder youd need.
Quoting miKe mcKoffee :
<Snip>
nd
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s
<Snip>
m
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<Snip>

36) From: Leo Zick
i had a tranquilo. while it easily mechanically switches from one  
grind setting to another, its not happy about it, and you have to  
spend way too much time zeroing it again.  not worth it imo.  i prefer  
a good and consistent espresso grind.
Quoting miKe mcKoffee :
<Snip>
t
<Snip>
e.
<Snip>

37) From: fookoo
 ---------

38) From: Les
Mike said, "Ask Les how "difficult" it is using his Mazzer Major for
switching grinds for other than espresso, piece of cake."
I went from ristretto to Technovirm this morning in less that 2 seconds.  I
went back to a nice ristretto in about 4 seconds.  I have total
repeatability.  Yesterday I forgot to factor in the rain and pulled a very
tight ristetto on the first one.  I moved two small notches and was dialed
in.  Even though I drool over the Kony, the Mazzer Major will last me the
rest of my life.  So it is a one time investment.  The burrs are rated for
800 pounds of coffee.  I replaced perfectly good burrs, so I have a spare
set that are at least 75% good.  The Mini is good for 300-400 pounds and the
SJ for 600 pounds.  You need to remember that these ratings are for
espresso, so for those of us that grind for other methods it is many more
pounds.  In my opinion, the Rancilio Rocky is the best buy out there right
now.  It is a life time grinder as well.  In many ways it is better built
than the Mazzer Mini.  I would go with a Macap before a Mazzer Mini.  That
said, the Mazzer Super Jolly and Major are built like tanks.  Why not buy
something that is worry free?  Why go through 3 or 4 cheap grinders when you
can have a Rancilio for the price to 2 cheap grinders?  Keep you eye out for
a good used one.  New burrs and you have a new machine.
Les
On 9/20/06, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>

39) From: Les
Mike said, "Ask Les how "difficult" it is using his Mazzer Major for
switching grinds for other than espresso, piece of cake."
I went from ristretto to Technovirm this morning in less that 2 seconds.  I
went back to a nice ristretto in about 4 seconds.  I have total
repeatability.  Yesterday I forgot to factor in the rain and pulled a very
tight ristetto on the first one.  I moved two small notches and was dialed
in.  Even though I drool over the Kony, the Mazzer Major will last me the
rest of my life.  So it is a one time investment.  The burrs are rated for
800 pounds of coffee.  I replaced perfectly good burrs, so I have a spare
set that are at least 75% good.  The Mini is good for 300-400 pounds and the
SJ for 600 pounds.  You need to remember that these ratings are for
espresso, so for those of us that grind for other methods it is many more
pounds.  In my opinion, the Rancilio Rocky is the best buy out there right
now.  It is a life time grinder as well.  In many ways it is better built
than the Mazzer Mini.  I would go with a Macap before a Mazzer Mini.  That
said, the Mazzer Super Jolly and Major are built like tanks.  Why not buy
something that is worry free?  Why go through 3 or 4 cheap grinders when you
can have a Rancilio for the price to 2 cheap grinders?  Keep you eye out for
a good used one.  New burrs and you have a new machine.
Les
On 9/20/06, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>

40) From: Justin Marquez
On 9/20/06, fookoo  wrote:
<Snip>
Once a person is crazy enough to spend many hundreds of bucks on an
espresso machine, what's a few more hundred for a second grinder,
eh...?
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (CYPRESS, TX)

41) From: miKe mcKoffee
Interesting input on the Tranquilo. Changing grinds on (my) Rocky or (my)
Mazzer SJ doesn't seem to affect the true zero point at all or getting back
to espresso grinding from Press grind etc. Pop up plus 25 for Press and
grind, come back and checked true zero stays the same. (Said +25 was for
Rocky and Press with SwissGold plunger, 2:30 infusion.) That's with changing
grind setting with no beans in hopper. (Which is always the case since I
always measure and grind for each session, regardless the intended brew
method, never storing beans in hopper.) I'd heard that a mfg run of Rocky's
had a bit loose upper burr carrier (rectified with plumbers teflon tape) but
such is not the case with my 5 year old.
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
<Snip>

42) From: Mike Chester
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
I am still trying to sell my low mileage Gaggia MDF.  I am willing to =
let it go pretty cheap.  Contact me off list if interested.
Mike Chester

43) From: Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee
Just want to point out that, for me, the problem has been on the 
opposite end of the grind spectrum: finding a really good grinder for 
even, coarse grind, ie french press. Conical burr mills and even flat 
burr mills with higher rotation speeds are not ideal in that one 
respect. Anyway, I still like slow rotation deep vee conicals for the 
way they "tear" the coffee into the most irregular shape, which opens 
up maximum surface area for brewing. Now for cupping I use a Ditting 
mill, and you don't want an overly fine grind for cupping or it won't 
settle out (you are essentially making cowboy coffee that you taste 
with a spoon, rather than pour.) As Mike points out, searching older 
posts will reveal A LOT of grinder talk, which, if I had 2 weeks or 
so, I would assemble into a FAQ, but I don't, so I can't. The other 
issue is every 2 months or so the information needs an update.
Tom
--
                   "Great coffee comes from tiny roasters"
            Sweet Maria's Home Coffee Roasting  -  Tom & Maria
                      http://www.sweetmarias.com                Thompson Owen george_at_sweetmarias.com
     Sweet Maria's Coffee - 1115 21st Street, Oakland, CA 94607 - USA
             phone/fax: 888 876 5917 - tom_at_sweetmarias.com

44) From: Michael Dhabolt
Les,
Good to hear that two 'bump' adjustment on your Major dialed the grind
in with regard to this major humidity change, the same adjustment on
my Mini and a Super Jolly that I was using in Hood River last night
worked out correct.
The only dis-advantage to the Mini that I am convinced of, when
compared to the Major or the Super Jolly is the time it takes.  The
Mini has substantially smaller burrs so it seems to take about three
times as long to grind a given amount.  As far as quality of build,
quality of grind, repeatability (exact), ability to reset and return
to an exact grind, expected longevity, ease of burr replacement and
burr carrier quality and fit - - - I see no difference between the
Mini and it's larger brothers.
With adequate counter space and enough vertical room for the larger
Mazzer's, I would choose the bigger grinder if there were no
difference in cost (such as a Tagex auction from Ebay).  When
purchasing a new machine at list price for home use, I would choose
the Mini in a second.
Mike (just plain)

45) From: True, Dennis W. FC1 (CVN69)
Can some one tell me what "Cowboy Coffee" is? 
Dennis

46) From: Maryann & Dave Schellenberg
This topic of grinders for course grinds interests me.
I own a Capresso Infinity which is a conical grinder, gear reduced to 
420 rpm.
It works well, and I'm happy with it.
But we, on this list, rarely stop investigating alternatives, do we?
Someone raves about the new flavours they're tasting, and we begin to 
wonder if we might be missing something.
What other grinders match Tom's description?
Dave S.
Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee wrote:
<Snip>

47) From: Aaron
It was asked.
how about a 'pepper mill' burr grinder?...
=============
I believe Zassenhaus makes one and it's called a turkish mill.
You can find a picture of it on this pagehttp://www.sweetmarias.com/prod.zas.shtmlSM's is out of them, been for ages,  as Zass is having supply problems 
it seems...  Id really like to get my hands on one here for ease of 
carrying around but guess Ill end up waiting another year.
Aaron

48) From: Leo Zick
Once again im behind the times.  Damn. Well, at least I know it's a good
idea :/

49) From: Blake D. Ratliff
I use to have a Braun burr grinder and I recently replaced it with a Kitchen 
Aid Proline grinder.  I do drip, Aeropress, and French Press.  French press 
is my favorite cup.  I noticed a definate improvement on very first sip of 
coffee with my Kitchen Aid Proline compared to the Braun burr.  More 
complexity and a smoother fruitier flavor.  I do not consider myself an 
expert on tasting coffee but the improvement was obvious.  I am very glad I 
purchases the Kitchen Aid Proline grinder.  Pride of ownership is very high 
as it is built like a tank, looks great, runs quiet (suppose to produce less 
heat on beans), and has virtually no static issues due to the glass bins. 
The glass bins were a major selling point for me.
Regards, Blake

50) From: raymanowen
Well, if you can't keep up- take notes. Altitude here is 1.65 Km. Is that
significantly above your comfort level?
I'm sure you can solve the riddle- whatever it is. Give it a shot. Enjoy
some Think Drink.
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
Don't destroy good coffee with your grinder-

51) From: Brian Kamnetz
On 9/20/06, Blake D. Ratliff  wrote:
<Snip>
Blake,
Your description parallels my experience when I progressed from a
Krups whirley-blade grinder to a Zassenhaus 169DG.
Brian

52) From: Les
Dave,
If I didn't do espresso, the Capresso Infinity would be high on my
list.  If my Major didn't adjust so easily, I would in all likelihood
get a grinder like yours for drip or press pot.  There is no simple
answer.  One needs to research their coffee style and find a grinder
that will maximize their brew and stay within their budget.
Les
On 9/20/06, Maryann & Dave Schellenberg  wrote:
<Snip>

53) From: Michael Wade
Aaron
I've had one of the Zass turkish mills for around 30 years.  Doesn't look 
like they've changed at all.  I originally tried grinding coffee with it, 
but found that it took way too long, and was tiring to hold the body of the 
mill firmly enough to keep it from spinning in your hand..
It makes a fantastic pepper grinder, though!
Michael Wade

54) From: True, Dennis W. FC1 (CVN69)
Maybe out moderators have an update I am wanting a Zass Knee grinder
myself
Any word?
Dennis
I believe Zassenhaus makes one and it's called a turkish mill.
You can find a picture of it on this pagehttp://www.sweetmarias.com/prod.zas.shtmlSM's is out of them, been for ages,  as Zass is having supply problems
it
seems...  Id really like to get my hands on one here for ease of
carrying
around but guess Ill end up waiting another year.
Aaron

55) From: David Morgenlender
Thanks everybody for the feedback.  It really does make sense that with =
an
uneven grind there will be a lot of under-extracted and over-extracted =
grinds.
It's so obvious in hindsight!
So, I'm convinced to get a new grinder (probably a doserless Rocky) soon,
whether or not I'm able to get the espresso machine at the same time.  =
But I
have to figure out how to deal with my wife's reaction when I say I'm =
buying
another large device for the kitchen, and oh BTW, it's a grinder which =
will cost
almost $300! :)  She's going to think I'm even nuttier than she had =
thought
previously ... and the funny thing is that until recently I would've =
thought the
same thing, if I were spending this much money on a grinder!  
Dave
On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 20:28:32 -0400, you wrote:
<Snip>
mokapot,
<Snip>
about
<Snip>
non-espresso.  But
<Snip>
 a Rocky
<Snip>
brewing?  If
<Snip>
get into
<Snip>
what I
<Snip>
 about
<Snip>
a
<Snip>
==========================
======
<Snip>
==========================
======
<Snip>
unsvbscribes) go to =http://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings==========================
==========================
=====
Dave Morgenlender
e-mail: dmorgen
==========================
==========================
=====

56) From: Steven Sobel
She may think you are nutty until she drinks your coffee.  Then she will be
impressed on how smart you are.
Steve
On 9/23/06, David Morgenlender  wrote:
<Snip>

57) From: David Morgenlender
Steve,
Unfortunately, she doesn't drink coffee!  Yesterday, I tried to get her =
to taste
a Decaf Harar latte (or as close to one as I can make without a steamer).=
  I
figured she couldn't use the caffeine argument, and this coffee smelled &=
 tasted
so good, totally non-bitter that she couldn't help but like it ... and =
she'd be
hooked ... all the equipment & beans I wanted would then be in my power =
to buy!
:)  She was all set to take a sip ... then she said she couldn't, since =
she just
could not stand the smell of coffee!  I am going to keep trying, and hope=
 it's
not a lost cause ... maybe a clothes pin on her nose would do the =
trick??? :)
Dave
On Sat, 23 Sep 2006 14:53:56 -0500, you wrote:
<Snip>
 be
<Snip>
with an
<Snip>
soon,
<Snip>
 But
<Snip>
about
<Snip>
 to
<Snip>
I'll
<Snip>
than
<Snip>
wife
<Snip>
about a
<Snip>
==========================
======
<Snip>
==========================
======
<Snip>
==========================
==========================
=====
<Snip>
==========================
==========================
=====
<Snip>
==========================
==========================
=====
Dave Morgenlender
e-mail: dmorgen
==========================
==========================
=====

58) From: Brett Mason
Dave...
Buy her roses and enjoy all the coffee yourself!
Brett
On 9/23/06, David Morgenlender  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

59) From: Jon Rosen
I'm getting very good results with my KitchenAid Proline. I made the  
very simple adjustment (that's in their manual) to calibrate the  
grinder to its finest setting. My espresso grind is very fine. I  
haven't put it under a microscope to compare it to some other  
grinder's espresso grind, but would be willing to do that and post  
photos, if someone wants to send me a small quantity of their  
grinder's output.
The Proline is quiet and looks very nice on the countertop. My only  
quibble with it is the number of steps. There is a mod that has been  
posted for making it stepless. It hasn't been that much of an issue,  
so I'm probably not going to bother doing that. What I haven't taken  
a look at is the consistency of the grind. That, I think, is the most  
important aspect of a grinder. The Proline seems to be good in that  
respect. My coffee improved 100% after I switched to the KitchenAid  
from a Cuisinart burr grinder, which produced a very noticeable  
amount of dust.
Jon
On Sep 20, 2006, at 11:19 AM, miKe mcKoffee wrote:
<Snip>

60) From: David B. Westebbe
<Snip>
<Snip>
Maybe not for espresso, but maybe so for espresso too.  But for anything
else, I agree completely, with the added caveat that the absence of =
fines is
extremely important.
A while ago, some folks experimented with gradually finer and finer =
screens
for evaluating grinder performance.  Who did that?  Any correlated =
results?
Any screens left?

61) From: Jon Rosen
That would make for some interesting testing. If we had a set of  
screen that we could test with different grinders, the results would  
be really informative. Couple that with the smallest espresso grind  
that a grinder produces and we would have something quantifiable.
Jon
On Sep 26, 2006, at 10:28 AM, David B. Westebbe wrote:
<Snip>

62) From: Les
What you are paying for is longivity.  I am not saying anything bad
about the KitchenAid in this statement.  My Solis Maestro made
wonderful espresso for about 3 months.  However, without the ability
to change the one burr and the plastic carrier, I knew I wasn't going
to get long service from this machine.  The grinders with metal
carriers and burrs that can be changed easily are going to last
longer.  That kind of machine is going to cost more to begin with, but
it will be cheaper in the long run.
Les
On 9/26/06, Jon Rosen  wrote:
<Snip>

63) From: Sean Cary
Pretty much all metal in the Proline - the knob is plastic and there is some
other odds and ends, but it is really well made - don't think wearing it out
after three months of espresso grind would be a big issue...
That said - I am not an espresso type, so I won't be a good test subject.
Sean 
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Les
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 12:01 PM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: Re: +How important is a good grinder for non-espresso?
What you are paying for is longivity.  I am not saying anything bad about
the KitchenAid in this statement.  My Solis Maestro made wonderful espresso
for about 3 months.  However, without the ability to change the one burr and
the plastic carrier, I knew I wasn't going to get long service from this
machine.  The grinders with metal carriers and burrs that can be changed
easily are going to last longer.  That kind of machine is going to cost more
to begin with, but it will be cheaper in the long run.
Les
On 9/26/06, Jon Rosen  wrote:
<Snip>

64) From: raymanowen
"...I am not an espresso type, so I won't be a good test subject"   Yeah,
But-
when I get there, I don't want the Bloody Grinder in my way.
Not only that, but there's no space on my counter for any equipment that
will automatically SNAFU all the coffee fed into it. I reserve it to myself
to be the loose screw in front of the counter- if I botch something and
wreck some coffee, I'll learn. Machines don't.
I seriously don't think anyone tried a Ro-tap separator for grading coffee
grounds size... Those screens verge on the expensive, and for what? They
don't really work with dust particulate.
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
-- 
"When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the Mighty
Wichita (ex- NYC Paramount) WurliTzer- 1976


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