HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Setting Up "Shop" (17 msgs / 617 lines)
1) From: Chad Fry
Woo-hoo to the brew! I love the stuff. So much I have set up a mini 
coffee room in my house. A couch, coffee table two counter tops for 
coffee equipment, antique mills and on and on. Sad to say, I thought I 
had nice equipment. Ehem, a *$ blade grinder and matching *$ polished 
coffee maker and a Krups espresso machine (yes, I know). I have been 
home roasting since March using a whirley popper and part of this list 
since. It is glaringly obvious it is time to upgrade. After all the 
posts, I would love to go with a Rocky, Technivorm and I haven't looked 
into espresso machines because buying all 3 pieces is way over my 
budget. Does anyone have any used extras to sell? Also, am I headed in 
the wrong direction with the TV if I want to do espresso too? I leave 
the house at 4am so extensive morning coffee work is not an option. 
Slowly... but surely, rising to a better cup.
Chad

2) From: Gary Bennett
On 9/22/06, Chad Fry <> wrote:
<Snip>
Hi Chad,
I think it depends on how much money you really want to spend, and how
many people you're regularly brewing for. I started off roasting and
grinding for french press, but very soon moved to an espresso machine
(supplemented by various other brewers and presses).
Rather than a Technivorm, you could consider an Aeropress or other
cheap brewer and save the difference towards a Silvia or Gaggia.
Regards, Gary

3) From: Wesley Simon
Hi Chad,
I've been on this list for about a year now.  I've experienced that deep
seeded urgency to dump the crappy old coffee pot for the best one that is
going to give me the ultimate coffee experience.
My suggestion:
Sit back, relax, take a deep breath.
Pour yourself a cup of coffee from your current pot.  How is it?  Pretty
damn good now that you're roasting your own, huh?  Is there anything you're
not getting out of your existing setup?  Would you be able to taste the
difference if your coffee was brewed at 200 degrees instead of the 196 that
your current pot (guessing the temp here) brews it at?  There are some
people on this list that say that they can tell the difference between an
espresso shot pulled at 201 rather than 202 and those that can tell the
difference between beans ground yesterday versus today.  I don't believe
that I'm one of those people...yet.  I have a Solis Maestro+ grinder, a
Silvia espresso machine, and an old Krups cone filter drip coffee pot.  I
also have a Krups Moka Brew, a french press and a Swiss Gold one-cup pour
over.  The two pots I use the most are the old Krups drip and the one-cup
pour over.  My point here is to let you know that you need not hang your
head in shame for having a starbucks drip pot and if it works, then don't
fix it.  My french press was purchased at starbucks; I used to have one of
their espresso machines.  The pursuit of better coffee took me down that
path and I had to go through that phase to get here.
I went through a phase of wanting to get a Rocky, Expobar Brewtus, and
Technovorm.  Instead, I sold my old starbucks espresso machine and picked up
the Silvia on Ebay.  The upgrade cost me $200 instead of well over a
thousand that the Brewtus would have cost.  I continue to use the coffee
pots that I have.  My grinder is good enough for now.
Someday I dream of a plumbed in espresso machine, a grinder for espresso, a
grinder for brewed coffee, and a commercial grade coffee brewer that brews
right into my air-pot, and a barista to run it all for me when I get tired
of playing.  But, then reality sets in....
Wes
On 9/24/06, Gary Bennett  wrote:
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4) From: Lynne
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Chad, I totally agree w/Wes.
I'm still quite a newbie, but I am very happy with the unbelievable 
quality of homeroasted coffee. I did not - cannot - purchase expensive =
equipment. The money just isn't there (in fact, if I had been more 
careful of all my foolish purchases in the past, I would have more of 
that - but I digress...)
Started roasting with a Whirly-Pop & brewing with a Farberware 
percolator (used a blade grinder at that point). After I joined this 
list, w/suggestions that the grinder is the most important purchase, I =
bought a used Zassenhaus grinder from a kind soul on this list (love 
this grinder). Despite all the naysayers, I was very happy with the 
percolator, but I also wondered what else is out there. Since the perc =
is a large one & doesn't make just one cup at a time, I needed to get 
something better - but w/in my price range (which is close to nothing!)
So I went to my local bargain store (the kind that carries name brands, =
not cr#p). Got a French Press and a little imported Italian Moka Pot 
with the intention of returning one after my experiment.
The winner was the little Moka pot - not Bialetti, since I can't afford =
it - yet. This $9.99 purchase has made me VERY happy. I drink an 
Americano every day - sometimes several times a day. (I also realize 
now that this is much better than the percolator coffee, although I do =
make it occasionally when I have a bunch of people in the house who 
want some coffee.)
In short, remember what is right for some, doesn't make it necessary 
for all - and, it doesn't have to cost a lot of money. Plenty of people =
in other countries (where there is less available) make do.
Lynne
On Sep 25, 2006, at 11:00 AM, Wesley Simon wrote:
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be 
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a 
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used 
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coffee 
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to 
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now. 
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how
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Chad, I totally agree w/Wes.
I'm still quite a newbie, but I am very happy with the unbelievable
quality of homeroasted coffee. I did not - cannot - purchase expensive
equipment. The money just isn't there (in fact, if I had been more
careful of all my foolish purchases in the past, I would have more of
that - but I digress...)
Started roasting with a Whirly-Pop & brewing with a Farberware
percolator (used a blade grinder at that point). After I joined this
list, w/suggestions that the grinder is the most important purchase, I
bought a used Zassenhaus grinder from a kind soul on this list (love
this grinder). Despite all the naysayers, I was very happy with the
percolator, but I also wondered what else is out there. Since the perc
is a large one & doesn't make just one cup at a time, I needed to get
something better - but w/in my price range (which is close to nothing!)
So I went to my local bargain store (the kind that carries name
brands, not cr#p). Got a French Press and a little imported Italian
Moka Pot with the intention of returning one after my experiment.
The winner was the little Moka pot - not Bialetti, since I can't
afford it - yet. This $9.99 purchase has made me VERY happy. I drink
an Americano every day - sometimes several times a day. (I also
realize now that this is much better than the percolator coffee,
although I do make it occasionally when I have a bunch of people in
the house who want some coffee.)
In short, remember what is right for some, doesn't make it necessary
for all - and, it doesn't have to cost a lot of money. Plenty of
people in other countries (where there is less available) make do. 
Lynne
On Sep 25, 2006, at 11:00 AM, Wesley Simon wrote:
Hi Chad,
I've been on this list for about a year now.  I've experienced that
deep seeded urgency to dump the crappy old coffee pot for the best one
that is going to give me the ultimate coffee experience.  
My suggestion:
Sit back, relax, take a deep breath.
Pour yourself a cup of coffee from your current pot.  How is it? 
Pretty damn good now that you're roasting your own, huh?  Is there
anything you're not getting out of your existing setup?  Would you be
able to taste the difference if your coffee was brewed at 200 degrees
instead of the 196 that your current pot (guessing the temp here)
brews it at?  There are some people on this list that say that they
can tell the difference between an espresso shot pulled at 201 rather
than 202 and those that can tell the difference between beans ground
yesterday versus today.  I don't believe that I'm one of those
people...yet.  I have a Solis Maestro+ grinder, a Silvia espresso
machine, and an old Krups cone filter drip coffee pot.  I also have a
Krups Moka Brew, a french press and a Swiss Gold one-cup pour over. 
The two pots I use the most are the old Krups drip and the one-cup
pour over.  My point here is to let you know that you need not hang
your head in shame for having a starbucks drip pot and if it works,
then don't fix it.  My french press was purchased at starbucks; I used
to have one of their espresso machines.  The pursuit of better coffee
took me down that path and I had to go through that phase to get
here.  
I went through a phase of wanting to get a Rocky, Expobar Brewtus, and
Technovorm.  Instead, I sold my old starbucks espresso machine and
picked up the Silvia on Ebay.  The upgrade cost me $200 instead of
well over a thousand that the Brewtus would have cost.  I continue to
use the coffee pots that I have.  My grinder is good enough for now.  =
Someday I dream of a plumbed in espresso machine, a grinder for
espresso, a grinder for brewed coffee, and a commercial grade coffee
brewer that brews right into my air-pot, and a barista to run it all
for me when I get tired of playing.  But, then reality sets in.... 
Wes
On 9/24/06, Gary Bennett
<<0000,0000,EEEEbeancounterz>
wrote:
> Also, am I headed in
<Snip>
<Snip>
 > Slowly... but surely, rising to a better cup.
<Snip>
Hi Chad,
I think it depends on how much money you really want to spend, and how
many people you're regularly brewing for. I started off roasting and 
grinding for french press, but very soon moved to an espresso machine
(supplemented by various other brewers and presses).
Rather than a Technivorm, you could consider an Aeropress or other
cheap brewer and save the difference towards a Silvia or Gaggia. 
Regards, Gary
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5) From: Wesley Simon
I have to correct something...
My drip pot is a Braun, not a Krups.  It cost $30 ten years ago.  Back then,
I had it paired with a whirley grinder that I picked up at a yard sale for a
buck or two.  I believe I took it on a Starbucks world coffee tour once or
twice.
On 9/25/06, Wesley Simon  wrote:
<Snip>

6) From: rnkyle
Now that you have the coffee shop set up in your house, its time to fill it 
with quality equipment, as you can afford them, the very first upgrade that 
will elevate your coffee experience would be IMO a good grinder. If you plan 
on an espresso machine later on a good grinder is essential, and the Rocky 
would be the one to buy on the less expensive end, and Mazzer Mini as the 
chaeaper on the upper end.
Either grinder will be a good purchase that will last a long time and 
improve your coffee experience.
RK

7) From: Sandy Andina
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Well, I DO have the obsessive-compulsive coffee nerd setup (I aspire  
to true Coffee Geekdom but due to fripperies like food, clothing and  
shelter, must content myself with just being a CGForum member for  
now). However, it was a LOOOOONG upgrade path (about 18 years and  
counting), quite gradual and subtle until a couple of years ago. The  
difference is that I am too anal-retentive to sell any of my old  
equipment (and too respectful of my fellow SM listmembers to inflict  
inferior stuff on them as a Tradition--but if anyone feels there is a  
demand for old Krups thermoblock and Estro Profi machines, crappy  
burr grinders, etc., just holler). At present, I am using a Livia 90A  
as my espresso machine, but I'm keeping Silvia because she's proven  
easier and lighter to haul along to parties (and may end up in my  
office if I end up spending any significant amt. of time there).  The  
Profi's burrs dulled fairly quickly, so I bought a Pavoni PGB from  
Zabars, which I used for years. After the pump seemed to get anemic,  
I bought a Capresso Ultima which I used for a few years till I  
started reading about the Silvia and decided to get one. Had been  
using a Starbucks Barista burr grinder for drip (which eventually  
failed) and a Bodum Antigua for decaf drip--I like to store beans in  
the grinder (still have it and am using it). After the Pavoni PGB got  
a warped base from being too near the stove (and I actually have  
promised it to someone, just haven't boxed it up yet) I bought a  
Solis Maestro Plus for espresso, and demoted the Pavoni to decaf  
espresso use.  Then I got an irresistible deal on a gently used Rocky  
(I could tell you how little but you'd hate me), put the Pavoni in  
the basement and demoted the SMP to decaf espresso. A year later, got  
an equally irresistible deal on a used Mazzer Mini, about the same  
time the Barista grinder failed, and moved the SMP to drip/press/Aero  
duty where it is performing admirably. Rocky does decaf espresso  
(whereas two years ago I was drinking more decaf, I am back to  
drinking more regular). As to drip, I was perfectly happy with a  
Barista Aroma--until I read raves about the Technivorm's higher temp  
and got a really nice deal from a fellow CG-er on one, and I often  
find myself using both simultaneously for dinner parties or big  
breakfasts.   Of course, I have an assortment of French presses, an  
electric Moka pot (my husband insists on using those bricks of  
Bustelo his patients keep giving him and I refuse to drink the  
stuff), an Aeropress and one-cup filter cone for travel.
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
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Well, I DO have the =
obsessive-compulsive coffee nerd setup (I aspire to true Coffee Geekdom =
but due to fripperies like food, clothing and shelter, must content =
myself with just being a CGForum member for now). However, it was a =
LOOOOONG upgrade path (about 18 years and counting), quite gradual and =
subtle until a couple of years ago. The difference is that I am too =
anal-retentive to sell any of my old equipment (and too respectful of my =
fellow SM listmembers to inflict inferior stuff on them as a =
Tradition--but if anyone feels there is a demand for old Krups =
thermoblock and Estro Profi machines, crappy burr grinders, etc., just =
holler). At present, I am using a Livia 90A as my espresso machine, but =
I'm keeping Silvia because she's proven easier and lighter to haul along =
to parties (and may end up in my office if I end up spending any =
significant amt. of time there).  The Profi's burrs dulled fairly =
quickly, so I bought a Pavoni PGB from Zabars, which I used for years. =
After the pump seemed to get anemic, I bought a Capresso Ultima which I =
used for a few years till I started reading about the Silvia and decided =
to get one. Had been using a Starbucks Barista burr grinder for drip =
(which eventually failed) and a Bodum Antigua for decaf drip--I like to =
store beans in the grinder (still have it and am using it). After the =
Pavoni PGB got a warped base from being too near the stove (and I =
actually have promised it to someone, just haven't boxed it up yet) I =
bought a Solis Maestro Plus for espresso, and demoted the Pavoni to =
decaf espresso use.  Then I got an irresistible deal on a gently used =
Rocky (I could tell you how little but you'd hate me), put the Pavoni in =
the basement and demoted the SMP to decaf espresso. A year later, got an =
equally irresistible deal on a used Mazzer Mini, about the same time the =
Barista grinder failed, and moved the SMP to drip/press/Aero duty where =
it is performing admirably. Rocky does decaf espresso (whereas two years =
ago I was drinking more decaf, I am back to drinking more regular). As =
to drip, I was perfectly happy with a Barista Aroma--until I read raves =
about the Technivorm's higher temp and got a really nice deal from a =
fellow CG-er on one, and I often find myself using both simultaneously =
for dinner parties or big breakfasts.   Of course, I have an =
assortment of French presses, an electric Moka pot (my husband insists =
on using those bricks of Bustelo his patients keep giving him and I =
refuse to drink the stuff), an Aeropress and one-cup filter cone for =
travel.
  
=
--Apple-Mail-102-521196531--

8) From: rnkyle
After some thought a second reply:
Chad its common to want to go over ones head with new toys. I recommend that 
you do a lot of reasearch ahead of you purchase no matter what it is. If you 
do this you will make a better selection and will likely not need to upgrade 
later on. Do not settle for less just because you do not have the money at 
the time. Save your money untill you do have enought to buy what you want, 
but you will need to know what you want so you can save towards its 
purchase, this is where the research come in and will take a good bit of 
your time to do this.
First decide what it is that you are looking for in coffee, then go and 
research it. But no matter what direction you go, a good grinder should be 
the first purchase.
RK

9) From: Chad Fry
Your right. The first cup of homeroast I had, I was sold. It was 
unbelievable and that was in a pan roaster with my current blade grinder 
and *$ dripper. However, I find myself often frustrated with my grinder. 
Too many fine particles for FP, too much powder/dust for espresso, 
forget about percolating and never any consistency. I often am grabbing 
my 1950's hand grinder off my display shelf to get a good grind and even 
that has quite a variance (wing nuts are not that accurate as it turns 
out). So, I guess what I am saying is I have come to a point where I am 
unhappy with my grinder so that can be upgraded now. I can agree that I 
am not unhappy with my dripper so that can wait. I like your comment as 
it pertains to me and I am sure many others "The pursuit of better 
coffee took me down that path (*$) and I had to go through that phase to 
get here." Thx
Chad
On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 10:28am, Wesley Simon wrote:
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k 
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Chad=

10) From: Chad Fry
Thanks for summing up my thoughts- exactly. I couldn't have done it 
better! Now, with that in mind, one step at a time, it's grinder time. 
With all the helpful people on this list and their suggestions, it looks 
like a Rocky is the way to go. I have heard people say "the Mazzer is 
the only grinder you will ever need". Is this the same thought with the 
Rocky?
Chad
On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 1:54pm, rnkyle wrote:
<Snip>
Chad

11) From: miKe mcKoffee
<Snip>
The answer is an unequivocal undeniable indisputable maybe! A Rocky will do
the job very admirably any grind from Turkish to Press for likely a lifetime
IMO. (Assuming you  replace the burrs every 75 to 100#.) My Rocky is coming
up on 5yrs old. (and on it's 4th set of burrs including the originals) That
said my espresso journey eventially led to seeking finer grind control
(especially for ristettos) and so added a Mazzer Super Jolly. Do to the SJ's
size and counter space constraints currently Rocky is still my primary
espresso grinder however and doing a very good job, even for ristrettos.
(After replacing the burrs a couple months ago. I'd gone too long (like 15
months or so and well over 100#) and lost much fine grind adjustability for
ristrettos.) 
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.

12) From: Barry Luterman
I agree. However, for espressos. The Mazzer gives less clumping than the 
Rocky. After grinding just a simple tap and you tamp is easy and uniform. 
With Rocky a little more care is needed to get the same effect. If espresso 
is not your primary drink and you replace the burrs every 100 pounds or so 
Rocky is the last grinder you will need. I started out with brewed coffee 
and an occasional espresso. Now I drink espresso almost exclusively and the 
Mazzer is my last grinder.

13) From: rnkyle
<Snip>
thought with the
<Snip>
If espresso is your primary brew method , I think the Mazzer is the way to 
go.
Not knowing if espresso is your primary brew, then the Rocky is a very nice 
grinder at an affordable price, and will do OK for espresso, not being a 
stepless it falls short in some areas, but none the less is an a good 
grinder.. If budget allows I would buy the Mazzer, if it does not then I 
would in this case go ahead and buy the Rocky so you can enjoy a better cup 
the day it arrives.
Good luck in your journey and try not to be impulsive as it will cost you 
money in the long run.
Cheers
RK

14) From: Chad Fry
Replace burrs every 75-100 lbs? Wow, seems often. Does anyone know how 
often burrs get changed in a coffee shop? Yesterday I noticed my local 
place had a Mazzer Mini and it got me wondering.
Chad
On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 10:29am, miKe mcKoffee wrote:
<Snip>
Chad

15) From: Rich Adams

16) From: miKe mcKoffee
And has been previously discussed here and other forums "manufacturers
suggested 'useful' burr life" is much greater than actual 'optimum' quality
grind burr life. I believe Jim Schulman estimates about a 25% reality
factor, which I tend to agree from experience.
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
<Snip>

17) From: Les
I read the Rocky and Mazzer Mini are rated at 300 pounds of espresso; The
Mazzer Super Jolly at 600 pounds and the Mazzer Major at 800 pounds.
Another reason I like my Major.
Les
On 9/27/06, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
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