HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Grinders and "the Moment" (50 msgs / 1169 lines)
1) From: John Nanavati
ok; so, here's the thing. i'm newish to coffee. i traveled to spain on 
business and enjoyed Americanos there. my mother-in-law lives in jamaica and 
travels with a bag of blue mountain in her purse (really ;- ). i don't like 
a tall cup of coffee and have enjoyed the demitasse that i make with my 
Bialetti.
i've heard enough people say that the quality of the grinder makes a huge 
difference, that i believe them. the thing that i'm trying to balance is how 
much of a difference will it really make based on the dollars spent (please 
be gentle ;-)?
i expect to see a significant difference between my dull,15year-old, $10, 
blade grinder and something like the Solis Maestro Plus. but will a 
non-super-taster, like me, notice the difference between the SMP and the 
Rocky or better? or is the issue different and it's a matter of durability?
my other question is whether anyone knows of good barista in northern 
jersey? i'm sure there are plenty in NYC but I don't get in very often (2 yr 
old, work, etc.) it would help me to understand what a great cup of freshly 
roasted, properly ground, and well made espresso or coffee tastes like so 
that i know what "could be." i've followed the conversation here for a 
little while but haven't had the "moment" that some have reported with their 
first fresh roast.
happy day,
john.
John Nanavati
Plainfield, New Jersey
"Behind every fashionable woman lies a very patient man."

2) From: John Nanavati
hey all,
please disregard my inquiry about the grinder. i found everything that i 
need in the archives and we don't have to rehash the conversation. thank you 
to those who pointed me in the correct direction.
happy day,
john.

3) From: Brian Kamnetz
On 10/10/06, John Nanavati  wrote:
<Snip>
John,
Let us know what grinder you decide to get!
Brian

4) From: Ed Needham
You absolutely 'have' to have a quality grinder for good espresso.  A good 
grinder 'will' make a significant difference in coffee brewed other ways.
I brew with a Chemex manual drip, and grind with a commercial La pavoni Zip 
grinder.  I'm not a supertaster, but I can perceive a significant difference 
from using the store bought burr grinders, and a whole lotta difference from 
using a chopper type grinder.
I have never used the Solis Maestro, but from what others have said, it's 
about the best 'cheaper' style of grinder out there.  Some say it does well 
for espresso, but my guess is that it couldn't touch a Rocky, Mazzer Mini or 
other beefy grinder.
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************

5) From: jay hobaugh
You absolutely 'have' to have a quality grinder for good espresso.  A 
good 
grinder 'will' make a significant difference in coffee brewed other 
ways.
I brew with a Chemex manual drip, and grind with a commercial La pavoni 
Zip 
grinder.  I'm not a supertaster, but I can perceive a significant 
difference 
from using the store bought burr grinders, and a whole lotta difference 
from 
using a chopper type grinder.
I have never used the Solis Maestro, but from what others have said, 
it's 
about the best 'cheaper' style of grinder out there.  Some say it does 
well 
for espresso, but my guess is that it couldn't touch a Rocky, Mazzer 
Mini or 
other beefy grinder.
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"
  Hi there what about the capresso infinity...does that one do well for brewed coffee or
  for french press? I have one on the way is why I ask. CG reviews say it is pretty 
  good. does anyone here use this grinder??
  Steve
---------------------------------
Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com.  Check it out. 

6) From: STP
How are the hand cranked grinders for non espresso?  I have a 1920's
hand crank grinder my grandparents used.  I'm cleaning it up and was
wondering if anyone has experience using a hand grinder.  Is it worth
using?
--Kevin

7) From: Brett Mason
Better than any electric grinder for drip, FP or any brew method...
Brett
On 10/12/06, STP  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

8) From: miKe mcKoffee
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
I wasn't going to reply to the original post but find Brett's reply
ludicrous. An eighty year old manual crank grinder with who knows how dull
burrs better than "any electric grinder", yeah right.
 
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee 
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc: http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htm
Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.  
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Brett Mason
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2006 12:41 PM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +Grinders and "the Moment"
Better than any electric grinder for drip, FP or any brew method...
Brett
On 10/12/06, STP  wrote: 
How are the hand cranked grinders for non espresso?  I have a 1920's
hand crank grinder my grandparents used.  I'm cleaning it up and was 
wondering if anyone has experience using a hand grinder.  Is it worth
using?
--Kevin
_

9) From: STP
Brett
Thanks for the reply.  I wasn't sure if it'd be a waste of time to
strip the paint off this thing (exterior) and clean it out.  That's
this weekend project!
--Kevin
I bought a decaf table and can't see the difference.

10) From: STP
Maybe I should clean out the mechanism and run some test grinds
through it before stripping the paint off the cast iron (someone
painted the cast iron exterior a dull orange)...
thanks miKe
--Kevin

11) From: Brian Kamnetz
Kevin,
One thing that hasn't been discussed is what kind of grinder, with
what kind of burrs. Just as there is a wide range of electric grinders
(from whirly-blade grinders to Mazzer Majors), there is a very wide
range of quality, and therefore effectiveness, in hand grinders.
That's before there is any consideration given to wear and tear. It is
quite possible that you could clean up your old hand grinder and have
a gem. It is also quite possible that it will produce boulders and
dust.
Brian
On 10/12/06, STP  wrote:
<Snip>

12) From: Brett Mason
Take mine with a grain of salt - see Mike McKoffee's notes.
I have personally done some grinding with several "Arcade" box grinders,
wheel grinders, and many electrics, and have found better results from the
manual grinders by far.  I have thrown out cheaper electric burr grinders,
whirley gig grinders and one broken down wooden box grinder.
So, Mike doesn't agree with me.  I respect Mike, but diverge from him on
this point.  Your results may vary.
I am interested in your grinder if for some reason you find an alternative
method preferable.
Regards,
Brett
  Zassman
      (Take the Mensa Challenge, add or remove a character and see what
becomes of my nicname)
On 10/12/06, STP  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

13) From: miKe mcKoffee
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
You didn't say any "cheaper" electric grinder in initial post. Are you
saying oh let's say for example a Mazzer Major or Super Jolly (or better)
with new burrs will produce inferior grind to most any manual grinder of any
vintage and make with burrs than can't be replaced? That was how the post
sounded to me saying better than "any electric grinder".
 
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee 
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc: http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htm
Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.  
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Brett Mason
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2006 1:17 PM
I have personally done some grinding with several "Arcade" box grinders,
wheel grinders, and many electrics, and have found better results from the
manual grinders by far.  I have thrown out cheaper electric burr grinders,
whirley gig grinders and one broken down wooden box grinder. 
 

14) From: miKe mcKoffee
Hey, I'd clean it up regardless the burr condition. Display piece worst case
scenario.
miKe 
<Snip>

15) From: Tom Ulmer
Why effect a standard of a high volume commercial grinder for what is most
likely folks grinding for a couple of shots? To me this is similar to saying
that you must have a salamander broiler to serve quality fare. Granted one
must have the fundamental tools to produce quality, however, comparing the
tools needed in a commercial environment to that of a home seems, well,
ludicrous along one thought and utterly pompous along another.

16) From: Lynne
I have a Zassenhaus I bought from someone on this list - it's terrific. 
Took my arm a little while to get used to it (it COULD have been 
designed better), but the quality is great.
L.
On Oct 12, 2006, at 3:35 PM, STP wrote:
<Snip>

17) From: miKe mcKoffee
The standard is grind quality not grind volume. With due diligence excellent
deals can be had. Paying around $200 for a Mazzer Super Jolly or Major,
including cost of new burrs, is not that uncommon and doesn't seem to
qualify as ludicrous or pompous spending to me. A new Rocky costs more than
many spend on used Mazzers. And Rocky does an excellent job too IMO. But
maybe even Rocky for home use is ludicrous or pompous to some...
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
<Snip>

18) From: Tom Ulmer
My intention was not to cajole financial perspective as many things I enjoy
come at a price to me. What seems ludicrous to me is the notion of grind
quality - after a certain point. As you've stated, "Rocky does an excellent
job". I gather by this statement that you've experienced a few espresso
epiphanies after grinding with Rocky as this is how I would judge the grind
quality. Does a grinder intended to be used in a high volume environment
truly produce a better quality grind or is it a better quality grinder? To
be so bold as to state that the grind quality of another grinder, sight
unseen, to be inferior makes a pompous leap in my mind.

19) From: miKe mcKoffee
<Snip>
Gotcha. Absolutely have had many a fantastic shot ground with Rocky. Even a
few declared "Godshots" though I'm extremely picky and hence claim them rare
indeed. Other brewing methods too of course. I remember when I first got
Rocky comparing my wife's work drip brewer with Rocky versus about 11 month
old Solis Maestro ground, very noticable improvement! (Of course, the
Maestro burrs were shot from getting Silvia 5 months earlier and replacing
the upper burr did no good.) I've found it to be very important in
maintaining grind quality with Rocky, or any grinder, is keeping sharp
burrs. With Rocky that means replacing every 75# or so. (The video I posted
eariler today of those frozen "stale" beans where Rocky ground). I've not
done a lot of direct comparison between Rocky & Mazzer SJ, both with new
burrs, but what little comparing done SJ grinds seem a bit fluffier but in
the cup didn't really notice a difference. To really judge would need to do
a goodly number of shots in a blind taste comparison. Maybe one of these
days.
Often the better quality grinder aspect is a factor in longevity of burr
life and replaceability of burrs. Also can be a factor in how even the grind
which of course is a grind quality factor. IMO plastic burr carriers just
don't seem to do the job as well from a grind quality stand point.
What I found ludicrous and or pompous was the blanket statement that an 80
year old manual crank grinder of make & condition unknown would
automatically grind "better than any electric" grinder. Any was said, not
any cheapo or any marketed for home grinder. There is the possibility that
said ancient manual grinder was lightly used and the burrs still sharp. Made
no statement to the contrary and assume nothing.
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.

20) From: STP
miKe,
The person who made that statement was just trying to help me out.
I'm sure no pompousness was intended. I have no idea of the make of
the grinder as the exterior cast iron is covered with a thick coat of
orange paint.  I haven't had an opportunity to inspect the burrs.
I'll have at it this weekend and if the burrs are dull maybe they can
be sharpened with a Dremmell or a file.
If anyone was pompous it was me.  I was intellectually lazy for
posting a question prior to thoroughly inspecting the grinder (i.e.
doing my homework) and for that I apologize.
--Kevin

21) From: raymanowen
[What about the Capresso Infinity...does that one do well for brewed coffee
or for french press? I have one on the way...]
I have never had the Capresso Infinity, but I ordered one and the Capresso
Classic [pump] espresso maker.
The Baboons sent the Capresso Classic Luxe, an identical espresso maker with
an additional piece of chrome cheesecake added to it, and the Bodumb Antigua
grinder- a Solis Maelstrom in a neat-looking case.
I had already learned about the peculiarities of the Solis upper ring burrs
and didn't want any clones.
So, I received an eMail from Kyle Anderson, Baratza President. The man's a
Prince, and I'm sorry it took his time to solve the burr problem. But Solve
It he DID, with a BEAUTIFUL set of burrs for my SMP.
From the comments I've seen about the alleged impossibility of removing the
Left-Hand threaded center burr, I can understand why light bulbs and fuses
have migrated to plug-in style, rather than screw-in installations.
I guess the proliferation of television over literature and digital readouts
over analog has obscured references to   and   in twisting moments. Egad.
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
The Bonfils Brain Center always needs donors. You'll be an Automaton...
On 10/12/06, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
"When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the Mighty
Wichita (ex- NYC Paramount) WurliTzer- 1976

22) From: Brett Mason
Tell ya what, List.  I have an offer...
In the future, rather than discussing whether a manual grinder will work for
a given application, here's a more foolproof process.  Send the grinder to
me.  I will check it out.  If I deem it too old or unworkable, I will let
you know of my assessment, and then you can start searching for a used
grinder on the market, and get burrs to go with it.  I will handle disposal
appropriately...
This shouold alleviate anybody accidentally mistaking a manual grinder for a
good grinder...
I can provide my address offlist.  I will also pay for appropriate
shipping...
Cheers,
Brett
On 10/12/06, STP  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

23) From: Eddie Dove
What kind of rice should we send with the grinder?
On 10/12/06, Brett Mason  wrote:
<Snip>

24) From: miKe mcKoffee
Ray,
True enough for the Solis Maestro Plus. Scant years ago when the Solis
Maestro Classic wasn't Classic at all but merely a Solis Maestro (there
being no other) should beleaguered consumer perchance communiqué with
Baratza none but the upper burr would they sell deeming lower burr their
techno purveyance only be it CCW or CW a twist required. 
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I =
must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal =
enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone =
before.
<Snip>
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of
raymanowen
	Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2006 4:03 PM
	To: homeroast
	Subject: Re: +Grinders and "the Moment"
	
	
	[What about the Capresso Infinity...does that one do well for brewed
coffee or for french press? I have one on the way...]
	
	I have never had the Capresso Infinity, but I ordered one and the
Capresso Classic [pump] espresso maker. 
	
	The Baboons sent the Capresso Classic Luxe, an identical espresso
maker with an additional piece of chrome cheesecake added to it, and the
Bodumb Antigua grinder- a Solis Maelstrom in a neat-looking case.
	
	I had already learned about the peculiarities of the Solis upper
ring burrs and didn't want any clones. 
	
	So, I received an eMail from Kyle Anderson, Baratza President. The
man's a Prince, and I'm sorry it took his time to solve the burr =
problem.
But Solve It he DID, with a BEAUTIFUL set of burrs for my SMP.
	
	From the comments I've seen about the alleged impossibility of
removing the Left-Hand threaded center burr, I can understand why light
bulbs and fuses have migrated to plug-in style, rather than screw-in
installations. 
	
	I guess the proliferation of television over literature and digital
readouts over analog has obscured references to   and
  in twisting moments. Egad.
	
	Cheers -RayO, aka Opa! 
	
<Snip>
Automaton...

25) From: Brett Mason
Send pablum - I don't want to harm the cold forged steel burrs....
Brett
  Helpfulman
On 10/12/06, Eddie Dove  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

26) From: miKe mcKoffee
Kevin,
Don't worry about it! Brett and I have bumped heads many a time on List over
the years. And I'm quite sure either one of us would readily invite the
other into their home and happily pull 'em a shot. THEN we'd argue about
grinders, roasters, bean storage (green and roasted), crystal versus ceramic
demi's, press pot grind and infusion time... ;-)
miKe
<Snip>

27) From: Brett Mason
I agree - I said it earlier - I respect Mike, but diverge on this
opinion...  Yep - there are great grinders that are electric.  They don't
sell cheap.  I have a Rocky and love it - so I concur.  (Wanna argue about
Dosers?)
And, I hear, there are manual grinders that don't get the job done.  I just
have never seen one.  The ten plus I have had and work with are excellent.
The original question was abouot non-espresso - so I took Espresso quality
off the table - AND then there was the 1920s grinder that was already owned!
Yeah, we bumped heads.  I think we're friends too.  We both love coffee and
good food.  And we agree on Sweet Maria's...
Brett
On 10/12/06, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

28) From: jim gundlach
--Apple-Mail-5--144815136
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset-ASCII;
	delsp=yes;
	format=flowed
On Oct 12, 2006, at 4:03 PM, Tom Ulmer wrote:
<Snip>
Except for the fact that most of the tools and equipment marketed for  
"home use" in the United States today are really crappy.   All kinds  
of serious cooks and  hobby craftsmen regularly buy and use  
professional tools and equipment simply because it is necessary to do  
quality work.  If anything, I find the pompous and uninformed buyer  
often spends more for the lower quality, but highly advertised status  
brand name version of something, than they would have for better and  
longer lasting professional version.
    Pecan Jim
--Apple-Mail-5--144815136
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charsetO-8859-1
On Oct 12, 2006, =
at 4:03 PM, Tom Ulmer wrote:

 Granted one

must have the fundamental = tools to produce quality, however, comparing the

tools needed in a commercial = environment to that of a home seems, well,

ludicrous along one thought and utterly = pompous along another.

Except for = the fact that most of the tools and equipment marketed for "home use" in = the United States today are really crappy.   All kinds of serious = cooks and  hobby craftsmen regularly buy and use professional tools = and equipment simply because it is necessary to do quality work.  If = anything, I find the pompous and uninformed buyer often spends more for = the lower quality, but highly advertised status brand name version of = something, than they would have for better and longer lasting = professional version.   Pecan Jim= --Apple-Mail-5--144815136--

29) From: Chad
I can only speak from experience and before this week (got my rocky) I 
only had a whirley chopp. My 1950's hand grinder with a perc gave me the 
best cups I ever had. While I was camping on vacation nonetheless!
Chad
On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 1:24pm, miKe mcKoffee wrote:
<Snip>
th
<Snip>

30) From: Chad
$30 for a pound of greens sounds ludicrous, but is $0.30 to $0.50 a cup 
ludicrous??? Hmmmm..... What would a $4 cup at *S be called? Homeroast 
is an AWESOME hobby. We treat a $285 grinder like gold and spend 
weeks/months/years trying to make decisions about buying equipment. A $5 
lb of beans provides hours of enjoyment. I have thousands of dollars of 
remote control toys (planes and cars), $500 congas I don't play, $2,000 
in bikes I ride once or twice a week, motorcycles, sandrails, 
snowboards, cats, tortoises, reptiles, parrots and on and on. People 
can't believe the things I get involved with but you know what, I am 
truly happy. Hobbies keep your spirit inside alive! I haven't spent more 
in coffee stuff TOTAL than I did just getting started in every other 
hobby. I haven't recommended a Rocky to any of my friends just because 
they *like* coffee. The people here don't just *like* the drink, we love 
the hobby. I don't take spending $300 lightly, and I appreciate that 
others on this list understand that and are willing to help me out to 
make wise decisions so I don't spend more than I need to. Heck, $20 at a 
thrift store will keep you busy for 6 months! You all are great, this 
list is great and homeroast is awesome.
Chad
On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 2:24pm, miKe mcKoffee wrote:
<Snip>

31) From: STP
Chad,
Well said!  I don't think I've touched my xBox 360 video game system
since I've started roasting.  My wife would rather have great coffee
than me playing video games!  I'm printing your email and putting it
with my stash of greens to get me through those unsuccessful
experimental roasts!
On 10/12/06, Chad  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
--Kevin

32) From: Brett Mason
Mom, can I go to Chad's house to play?  Yes, I'll stay out of trouble...
Nice perspective,
Brett
On 10/12/06, Chad  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

33) From: Les
Chad said, "Heck, $20 at a
thrift store will keep you busy for 6 months!"
Chad,
for $18.50 more I bought my Mazzer Major in a Salvation Army store!  There
are deals out there to be found.  That said, if I had $2,000.00 to spend on
new coffee equipment  I would buy a Mazzer Kony and a Miss Silvia.  Most
would spend the $1500 on the espresso machine and only $500.00 on the
grinder.  I think the grinder is that important.  You can manipulate your
roaster and espresso machine, you can't manipulate your grinder.  The more
precision in the grinder, the better the coffee.  I continue to be amazed at
the difference the grinder makes.
Les
On 10/12/06, Chad  wrote:
<Snip>

34) From: Ed Needham
I have a brass hand held Turkish grinder I use for campouts.  It takes a lot 
of labor, but it makes a really nice grind for espresso and drip.  If you 
have no money and lots of patience, this might be the way to go.
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************

35) From: Ed Needham
I ONLY use organic, shade grown, bird friendly, fair trade, hand picked, 
washed with triple filtered de-ionized water, Basmati rice to clean my 
grinder.
(g)
<Snip>

36) From: Chad
I can't wait for the day I have enough ground to stand on to argue with 
Mike and Brett!
Chad
On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 4:55pm, Brett Mason wrote:
<Snip>
 
<Snip>
 
<Snip>
 
<Snip>
ee 
<Snip>

37) From: Brett Mason
Once you roast 130g of beans, you have enough to stand with me....  Mike's
done more...
Rumor has it I am biased towards manual grinders.  I have no idea where such
a rumor came from....
Brett
On 10/12/06, Chad  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

38) From: Peter Zulkowski
Brett,
Were you not the one who hooked his Zass to a drill press?
Perhaps it was someone else.
I have a few Zass's that I bought from ebay that were mislabled ( Thanks 
Brett) but they are too hard to use :(
Now why turn a crank when you can turn a switch on a Mazzer Major or 
Mini????
PeterZ
Brett Mason wrote:
<Snip>

39) From: Eddie Dove
"Now why turn a crank when you can turn a switch on a Mazzer Major or
Mini????"
Be the burr grasshoppa

40) From: Brett Mason
I'm not that smart.  I think it was Derek Bradford, and I believe he found
the result successful...
Derek Bradford     to
homeroast
10/22/05
  I took my zass to Japan, along with my French press and a couple
  pounds of coffee, for a week's vacation last month.  The box mills and
  knee mills, although bigger, are pretty fast grinders.  I'm quite
  happy with mine.
  I attached a small power drill to mine tonight, actually, and now I'm
  even happier with it.
Regards,
Brett
  Zassman
On 10/12/06, Peter Zulkowski  wrote:
<Snip>
are
<Snip>
on
<Snip>
argue
<Snip>http://homeroast.freeservers.com%5D<Snip>">http://homeroast.freeservers.com]<Snip>http://homeroast.freeservers.com%5D<Snip>
10/12/2006
<Snip>
unsvbscribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

41) From: miKe mcKoffee
<Snip>
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Les
	Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2006 7:52 PM
<Snip>
There are deals out there to be found.  That said, if I had $2,000.00 to
spend on new coffee equipment  I would buy a Mazzer Kony and a Miss Silvia.
Most would spend the $1500 on the espresso machine and only $500.00 on the
grinder.  I think the grinder is that important.  You can manipulate your
roaster and espresso machine, you can't manipulate your grinder.  The more
precision in the grinder, the better the coffee.  I continue to be amazed at
the difference the grinder makes. 
<Snip>
	
It's not often I disagree with you Les but I do in this case. For that $2000
at full retail prices I'd challenge a Kony/Silvia combo head to head with a
Super Jolly/Vetrano or rotary Bricoletta combo and highly suspect the later
would be more capable of consistently superior shots. Could be wrong and
maybe someday we'll be able to do just that head to head and find out! All
it takes is you buying a Kony, coming up with a Silvia for the duel would be
no problem:-) Now Kony/Bric' vs SJ/Bric' just might be a different story,
but we'd blind taste test that too! 
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.

42) From: miKe mcKoffee
<Snip>
Chad claim your space. No one can claim it for you and no one can take it
away from you.
(Unless Brett or I say so;-)
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.

43) From: Brett Mason
Mike's right.
I never disagree with him anyway...
Brett
On 10/12/06, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

44) From: Les
Mike,
You always have to be so precise!  :>)  I was trying to make an
overstatement to make my point.  Now a Kony with the Bric that would be fun!
Les
On 10/12/06, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>

45) From: True, Dennis W. FC1 (CVN69)
Where can I get some of that?....I don't know if I should Clean with it
or give it an Award.
Dennis
V/R,
FC1(SW) Dennis W. True
CS-5 DSPO
CS Dept CC
CS Dept TRANO
Duty Sec 1 CS E6 S/L
CS Dept Mentorship Coordinator
DCTT Repair locker 1F
"Life Liberty and the pursuit of all who threaten it..."

46) From: Walter Charzewski
Hello everyone,
being fairly new to this list I feel it's time to "delurk" and jump in
on that...
I use a Kony with a Pavoni lever machine (which should be available for
about 2,000.00 new) and the espressi/ristretti from that combo usually
outperform those brewed with my Butterfly (which should be rather
similar to those brewed with a bricoletta) by far.
Previously I had a Macap M4 (which is quite a good grinder too) but the
difference in taste between the Kony and the Macap is a big one...
Walter
<Snip>
more
<Snip>
amazed at
<Snip>
<Snip>

47) From: Les
Walter,
Thanks for coming out from lurking.  It is nice to hear from a Kony owner!
I currently have a Major and an Olympia Cremina.  It makes wonderful
espresso.  When I have to bang out multiple cappos, I use my Expobar Office
Control.  So, do you think the Kony would out preform the Major by a
significant amount?  Just looking for your opinion.
On 10/17/06, Walter Charzewski  wrote:
<Snip>

48) From: Leo Zick
Im trying SO hard to believe that a grinder of that cost is going to make
that much of a difference.  :(
Lol

49) From: Walter Charzewski
Les,
I have not yet been able to compare a Major with a Kony, but I have 
compared the Kony with my Innova I1 and my Macap M4, but also with a 
Mini E and a Mahlkönig K30. IMO the Kony brings out the different 
flavours of the beans much better than any other of those grinders and I 
do think this is because of the rather big conical burrs and the 
relatively slow speed...
Walter
Les schrieb:
<Snip>
<Snip>

50) From: Les
Thanks for the report, upgrade fever may be in the direction of a grinder a=
gain!
Les
On 10/18/06, Walter Charzewski  wrote:
<Snip>
ribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>


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